Usually whenever one has to deny that there's a crisis, there's a crisis.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8573760.stm
QuoteUS President Barack Obama denies crisis with Israel
US President Barack Obama has denied there is a crisis in Washington's ties with Israel over its settlement plans, as a war of words continues.
"Friends are going to disagree sometimes," he said, days after one of his top aides strongly attacked plans for 1,600 new homes in East Jerusalem.
Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu has distanced himself from an attack on Mr Obama by his brother-in-law.
Hagai Ben-Artzi had accused the US leader of being anti-Semitic.
Mr Netanyahu said he "strenuously" objected to his brother-in-law's comment and expressed his "deep appreciation" for Mr Obama's commitment to Israel's security.
Israel's approval of the new homes came after both sides agreed to hold indirect "proximity talks" to revive the peace process, stalled for more than a year.
'Special bond'
Speaking on the Fox News Channel, Mr Obama said on Wednesday that the new settlement homes were "not helpful" for building a peace agreement between Israelis and Palestinians.
Benjamin Netanyahu (14 March 2010)
Mr Netanyahu said Mr Obama was commited to Israeli security
While he said the plan was a poor choice for Israel, he added: "Israel is one of our closest allies and we and the Israeli people have a special bond that's not going to go away."
Israel announced the Jewish settlement expansion as US Vice-President Joe Biden arrived for a visit last week.
The Palestinian Authority has refused to resume direct talks with Israel because of its refusal to put a stop to the expansion of settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
In November, Israel announced a 10-month suspension of new building in the West Bank, under heavy US pressure. But it considers areas within the Jerusalem municipality as its territory and thus not subject to the restrictions.
Close to 500,000 Jews live in more than 100 settlements built since Israel's 1967 occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. They are illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this.
'Anti-Semitic president'
In an interview with Israel Army Radio, Mr Ben-Artzi said Mr Netanyahu should learn from previous Israeli prime ministers.
"Once the Americans tried to intervene in anything related to Jerusalem we told them one simple word: 'No'," he said.
Mr Obama, he added, not only disliked Mr Netanyahu personally, but "dislikes the people of Israel".
"For 20 years, Obama sat with Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who is anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli, and anti-Jewish."
He said it was clear Mr Obama agreed with Rev Wright because he had remained a member of his congregation.
"Think about it. If you had heard of someone who for 20 years sat in church and heard anti-Semitic sermons and didn't get up to leave after two weeks, wouldn't you think he identifies with it?" he asked.
"As a politician running for presidency he had to hide it, but it comes out every time and I think we just have to say it plainly - there is an anti-Semitic president in America," he said.
"Unfortunately this creates a difficult situation for Israel, but we will never give up our deepest interests - Jerusalem and our ties with it."
Mr Obama broke with the Trinity United Church of Christ in 2008 after some of Rev Wright's controversial sermons emerged on the internet. In one, he said the 9/11 attacks were an example of "America's chickens coming home to roost".
"I have a deep appreciation for President Obama's commitment to Israel's security, which he has expressed many times," Mr Netanyahu said in a statement afterwards.
But despite the rebuke from his sister's husband, Mr Ben-Artzi repeated his criticism of Mr Obama in a later interview with Israel's Channel 2 television.
Imagine an American government where in order to stay in power and get anything done, the leader had to get clearance from Pat Robertson and Glenn Beck, and where Beck was Secretary of State and Robertson was Secretary of HUD and also headed up a substantially revamped, powerful and Cabinet level office of "faith-based" initiatives.
That would give you some idea about where the current Israeli government is now.
Beck as secretary of state? Sounds like that would make a fine dark comedy by Kubrick.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 08:54:02 AM
Imagine an American government where in order to stay in power and get anything done, the leader had to get clearance from Pat Robertson and Glenn Beck, and where Beck was Secretary of State and Robertson was Secretary of HUD and also headed up a substantially revamped, powerful and Cabinet level office of "faith-based" initiatives.
That would give you some idea about where the current Israeli government is now.
This has been true for several decades now. That is why I have frequently asserted here that one must understand Israeli domestic politics to understand their foreign (or any other) policies. This has not been a popular assertion with the pro-Israel lobby here, but I still think it is true. Israel is no more a rational player in foreign affairs than most of its neighbors (and less one than, say, Canada, the US or most non-Med European countries).
The present coalition is an order of magnitude or so more dysfunctional than the usual train wreck of a government.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 11:08:38 AM
The present coalition is an order of magnitude or so more dysfunctional than the usual train wreck of a government.
It is more satisfying to blame Netanyahu for that. :P
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 11:08:38 AM
The present coalition is an order of magnitude or so more dysfunctional than the usual train wreck of a government.
You want to give up Yerushalayim?
With jews like you, who needs anti-semites.
Now he's starting to sound like a US President.
Quote from: Siege on March 18, 2010, 11:51:06 AM
You want to give up Yerushalayim?
With jews like you, who needs anti-semites.
it wasn't entirely yours to begin with.
But since you and the Arabs can't play nice, I think we should give the entire country to Christians. France gets the Israel part+Gaza, UK gets the West bank+East Jerusalem.
So no mortal ennemies there. Problem solved ;)
Quote from: Siege on March 18, 2010, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 11:08:38 AM
The present coalition is an order of magnitude or so more dysfunctional than the usual train wreck of a government.
You want to give up Yerushalayim?
With jews like you, who needs anti-semites.
This government has done more to put Israel's future at risk than all other post-67 Israeli governments combined.
And as an American and a serviceman, you should be outraged by the way that it has deliberately and pointlessly insulted the President and Secretary of State, thereby alienating Israeli's most constant and powerful ally. Please get a grip. And a clue.
BTW - congratulations on your re-enlistment. ;)
Just re-establish Kingdom of Jerusalem. :pope:
Quote from: Siege on March 18, 2010, 11:51:06 AM
You want to give up Yerushalayim?
With jews like you, who needs anti-semites.
New York is the new Jewish holy city.
Is Siegebreaker a little...verklempt after Joans comment? :o
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 18, 2010, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 11:08:38 AM
The present coalition is an order of magnitude or so more dysfunctional than the usual train wreck of a government.
You want to give up Yerushalayim?
With jews like you, who needs anti-semites.
This government has done more to put Israel's future at risk than all other post-67 Israeli governments combined.
Previous israeli goverments didn't have to deal with a nuclear Iran and a radical lefty anti-semite in the White House.
QuoteAnd as an American and a serviceman, you should be outraged by the way that it has deliberately and pointlessly insulted the President and Secretary of State, thereby alienating Israeli's most constant and powerful ally. Please get a grip. And a clue.
Why? I didnt vote for Obama. I always knew he was a shitbag. The United States is a democracy, not some middle eastern dictatorship where you have to worship the President. He might be my commander in chief, but I serve the People of the United States.
QuoteBTW - congratulations on your re-enlistment. ;)
Did you know that I have been longer with the US Army than I was with the IDF active duty?
You do not serve the people. You serve the Commander in Chief.
Say it with me..
"I serve Barack Hussein Obama"
Feels good, doesn't it? Its how I start out every morning.
Quote from: Jaron on March 18, 2010, 04:08:13 PM
Is Siegebreaker a little...verklempt after Joans comment? :o
Speak english, stupid wet-back.
Quote from: Siege on March 18, 2010, 04:23:17 PM
Why? I didnt vote for Obama. I always knew he was a shitbag. The United States is a democracy, not some middle eastern dictatorship where you have to worship the President. He might be my commander in chief, but I serve the People of the United States.
This isn't about worshipping the President. You are entitled to your opinion that the President is a shitbag (however ill-informed that opinion may be). But when a foreign leader - or in this case some second-rank foreign cabinet member - metaphorically flips the bird to the President and the Sec of State, that is an insult to the United States.
See if I as an American citizen say (c. 2003) "Bush is a moron" - that is just me as an American exercising my rights to free speech.
If Dominque de Villepin says it, it is a diplomatic insult. He doesn't get to call our President a moron, even if the President happens to be one.
Quote from: Jaron on March 18, 2010, 04:27:09 PM
Say it with me..
"I serve Barack Hussein Obama"
Feels good, doesn't it? Its how I start out every morning.
That's funny, you'd think that the POTUS would eat at somewhere more classy than Jack in the Box. ;)
Obama is always quick to bash Israel and make outlandish demands upon them while never critizising the PA, no matter how outrageous their behaviour. The outcome has been predictable: the PA have refused to engage in any negotiations. Why bother when their friend obama is busy bashing Israel?
No wonder that only 6 percent of israelis in the last survey believe that Obama is pro-Israel. Obama has succeeded in unifying the Israeli people behind Bibi, while torpedoing any chance for diplomacy. Good job by the Obamateur! :lol:
It is kinda pathetic how utterly clueless the Obama team is on Israel and the Middle East.
Amazingly, the Saudi Arabian gov't is now more pro-Israel than the US gov't, at least they back an Israeli air strike on Iran and have pledged to support it.
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 18, 2010, 04:54:45 PM
Obama is always quick to bash Israel and make outlandish demands upon them while never critizising the PA, no matter how outrageous their behaviour. The outcome has been predictable: the PA have refused to engage in any negotiations.
That is almost true.
Except for the fact that Obama has not "bashed" Israel. Or made outlandish demands. And he has criticized the PA. And the PA did agree to negotiate.
The puctuation was OK though.
Quote from: Malthus on March 18, 2010, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: Jaron on March 18, 2010, 04:27:09 PM
Say it with me..
"I serve Barack Hussein Obama"
Feels good, doesn't it? Its how I start out every morning.
That's funny, you'd think that the POTUS would eat at somewhere more classy than Jack in the Box. ;)
All your supposed wit and you can't come up better than somewhere I stopped working at
half a decade ago?
Come on breh, you are better than this.
Quote from: Jaron on March 18, 2010, 04:27:09 PM
You do not serve the people. You serve the Commander in Chief.
Say it with me..
"I serve Barack Hussein Obama"
Feels good, doesn't it? Its how I start out every morning.
This is not true.
I wonder if the Obama administration has any comment on this:
QuoteGaza rocket kills Thai farm worker in Israel
By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – A rocket fired by Gaza militants smashed into a greenhouse in an Israeli border village Thursday, killing a Thai worker in the first such death since Israel's massive offensive against Hamas-ruled Gaza more than a year ago.
The launch defied a long-standing ban by the Hamas on such attacks and highlighted the growing challenge to the Islamic militant group from more radical rivals, including al-Qaida-inspired firebrands.
The rocket also raised the specter of Israeli retaliation and further conflagration at a time of renewed international focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Israel has drawn tough U.S. criticism in recent days for plans to build hundreds more homes for Jews in disputed east Jerusalem.
Major Mideast mediators — among them U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, European foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon — were to meet Friday in Moscow to seek a way forward after the row over Israel's building plan derailed plans to start indirect Israeli-Palestinian talks.
Ashton visited Gaza on Thursday, the first senior diplomat to set foot in the blockaded territory in more than a year. Half an hour after her convoy of white SUVs entered Gaza through a heavily fortified Israeli crossing, the rocket was fired into an Israeli communal farm on the Gaza border.
It slammed into a greenhouse, scattering potted tomato plants in all directions. The dead man was identified as a foreign worker in his 30s from Thailand.
Thousands of foreign laborers in Israel have taken on menial jobs that used to be filled by Gaza residents until a decade ago, when unrest prompted Israel to restrict Palestinian movement.
"Israel will not allow terrorism and Palestinian terrorists to continue their attacks and to kill Israelis," Israel's deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, said during a tour of the attack site.
Later, Israeli tanks fired several shells into Gaza, causing no damage or injuries, according to witnesses. The military had no comment.
Ayalon said Gaza militants have fired thousands of rockets and mortars at Israel over the past eight years, arguing that Thursday's incident was proof that Israel had good reason to launch its war on Gaza in December 2008.
Some 1,400 Palestinians were killed during the three-week ground and air offensive, including hundreds of civilians. Thirteen Israelis also were killed.
Israel has rejected allegations by U.N. investigators and human rights groups that both sides committed war crimes. Ayalon said the rocket attack showed how "absurd" the criticism against Israel was.
Ashton said she was "extremely shocked" by the rocket attack and Ban, who is due in Gaza over the weekend, said acts of "terror and violence against civilians are totally unacceptable."
Israel held Hamas responsible for Thursday's attack, even though Hamas opponents claimed responsibility.
One claim came from Ansar al-Sunna, one of several al-Qaida-inspired groups that have sprung up in Gaza in recent years, espousing global holy war.These groups, known as Jihadi Salafis, consider Hamas too pragmatic but are not believed to have actual links to al-Qaida and have limited firepower.They have emerged as a growing irritant to Gaza's rulers, who have tried to maintain an informal truce with Israel since the end of the Gaza war.Rocket fire from Gaza dropped sharply after the war, with most attacks claimed by Salafis. Hamas security forces have rounded up dozens of Salafis in recent months.A second claim of responsibility came from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, the remnants of a violent offshoot of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah faction.
In recent days, Hamas has issued fiery statements, urging Palestinians in the West Bank and Jerusalem to launch a new uprising over Israel's actions in Jerusalem. Yet it has refrained from firing rockets in Gaza.
Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum portrayed Thursday's deadly attack as a result of "the recent escalation against our people and our holy places."
Since the end of the war, Hamas has largely avoided provoking Israel in an attempt to win international support for lifting a blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt after Hamas seized Gaza in 2007.
Ashton's visit to Gaza illustrated Hamas' efforts to win over the international community, even as it continues to be shunned by the West as a terror organization.
Bearded Hamas policemen blocked traffic at major intersections to allow Ashton's convoy to get through, but kept out of sight as she visited a U.N. girls' school, a U.N. food distribution center and a center for disabled Gazans. She had no direct contact with Hamas.
Ashton toured Gaza to get a firsthand look at the hardships caused by the war and the border blockade.
"What we have been saying to the Israelis for a long time is that we need to allow aid into this region, to be able to support the economy to grow for people," she said at the girls' school.
Gaza's 1.5 million people have become increasingly dependent on foreign aid. Europe spends some 500 million euros ($688 million) a year — or half its annual aid to the Palestinians — to help keep Gaza afloat.
Associated Press Writers Matti Friedman and Ian Deitch in Jerusalem and Rizek Abdel Jawad in Gaza City contributed to this report.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 18, 2010, 05:45:43 PM
This is not true.
You have cameras in Jaron's bedroom? :huh:
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 18, 2010, 04:54:45 PM
Obama is always quick to bash Israel and make outlandish demands upon them while never critizising the PA, no matter how outrageous their behaviour. The outcome has been predictable: the PA have refused to engage in any negotiations. Why bother when their friend obama is busy bashing Israel?
No wonder that only 6 percent of israelis in the last survey believe that Obama is pro-Israel. Obama has succeeded in unifying the Israeli people behind Bibi, while torpedoing any chance for diplomacy. Good job by the Obamateur! :lol:
It is kinda pathetic how utterly clueless the Obama team is on Israel and the Middle East.
Amazingly, the Saudi Arabian gov't is now more pro-Israel than the US gov't, at least they back an Israeli air strike on Iran and have pledged to support it.
Also in an unprecedented move the Obama administration has the US embassy in Tel Aviv instead of Jerusalem!!!!!1111oneeleven
Quote from: citizen k on March 18, 2010, 05:50:22 PM
I wonder if the Obama administration has any comment on this:
QuoteGaza rocket kills Thai farm worker in Israel
By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – A rocket fired by Gaza militants smashed into a greenhouse in an Israeli border village Thursday, killing a Thai worker in the first such death since Israel's massive offensive against Hamas-ruled Gaza more than a year ago.
The launch defied a long-standing ban by the Hamas on such attacks and highlighted the growing challenge to the Islamic militant group from more radical rivals, including al-Qaida-inspired firebrands.
The rocket also raised the specter of Israeli retaliation and further conflagration at a time of renewed international focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Israel has drawn tough U.S. criticism in recent days for plans to build hundreds more homes for Jews in disputed east Jerusalem.
Major Mideast mediators — among them U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, European foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon — were to meet Friday in Moscow to seek a way forward after the row over Israel's building plan derailed plans to start indirect Israeli-Palestinian talks.
Ashton visited Gaza on Thursday, the first senior diplomat to set foot in the blockaded territory in more than a year. Half an hour after her convoy of white SUVs entered Gaza through a heavily fortified Israeli crossing, the rocket was fired into an Israeli communal farm on the Gaza border.
It slammed into a greenhouse, scattering potted tomato plants in all directions. The dead man was identified as a foreign worker in his 30s from Thailand.
Thousands of foreign laborers in Israel have taken on menial jobs that used to be filled by Gaza residents until a decade ago, when unrest prompted Israel to restrict Palestinian movement.
"Israel will not allow terrorism and Palestinian terrorists to continue their attacks and to kill Israelis," Israel's deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, said during a tour of the attack site.
Later, Israeli tanks fired several shells into Gaza, causing no damage or injuries, according to witnesses. The military had no comment.
Ayalon said Gaza militants have fired thousands of rockets and mortars at Israel over the past eight years, arguing that Thursday's incident was proof that Israel had good reason to launch its war on Gaza in December 2008.
Some 1,400 Palestinians were killed during the three-week ground and air offensive, including hundreds of civilians. Thirteen Israelis also were killed.
Israel has rejected allegations by U.N. investigators and human rights groups that both sides committed war crimes. Ayalon said the rocket attack showed how "absurd" the criticism against Israel was.
Ashton said she was "extremely shocked" by the rocket attack and Ban, who is due in Gaza over the weekend, said acts of "terror and violence against civilians are totally unacceptable."
Israel held Hamas responsible for Thursday's attack, even though Hamas opponents claimed responsibility.
One claim came from Ansar al-Sunna, one of several al-Qaida-inspired groups that have sprung up in Gaza in recent years, espousing global holy war.These groups, known as Jihadi Salafis, consider Hamas too pragmatic but are not believed to have actual links to al-Qaida and have limited firepower.They have emerged as a growing irritant to Gaza's rulers, who have tried to maintain an informal truce with Israel since the end of the Gaza war.Rocket fire from Gaza dropped sharply after the war, with most attacks claimed by Salafis. Hamas security forces have rounded up dozens of Salafis in recent months.A second claim of responsibility came from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, the remnants of a violent offshoot of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah faction.
In recent days, Hamas has issued fiery statements, urging Palestinians in the West Bank and Jerusalem to launch a new uprising over Israel's actions in Jerusalem. Yet it has refrained from firing rockets in Gaza.
Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum portrayed Thursday's deadly attack as a result of "the recent escalation against our people and our holy places."
Since the end of the war, Hamas has largely avoided provoking Israel in an attempt to win international support for lifting a blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt after Hamas seized Gaza in 2007.
Ashton's visit to Gaza illustrated Hamas' efforts to win over the international community, even as it continues to be shunned by the West as a terror organization.
Bearded Hamas policemen blocked traffic at major intersections to allow Ashton's convoy to get through, but kept out of sight as she visited a U.N. girls' school, a U.N. food distribution center and a center for disabled Gazans. She had no direct contact with Hamas.
Ashton toured Gaza to get a firsthand look at the hardships caused by the war and the border blockade.
"What we have been saying to the Israelis for a long time is that we need to allow aid into this region, to be able to support the economy to grow for people," she said at the girls' school.
Gaza's 1.5 million people have become increasingly dependent on foreign aid. Europe spends some 500 million euros ($688 million) a year — or half its annual aid to the Palestinians — to help keep Gaza afloat.
Associated Press Writers Matti Friedman and Ian Deitch in Jerusalem and Rizek Abdel Jawad in Gaza City contributed to this report.
Clearly the fact that the US hasn't carpet bombed Gaza and provided Israel with a few hundred ICBMs free of charge shows that Obama is a communist anti-semite.
Of course Obama hates Israel. He's a leftist black who was part of a hate-group church for decades.
Quote from: Neil on March 18, 2010, 09:02:41 PM
Of course Obama hates Israel. He's a leftist black who was part of a hate-group church for decades.
One of Obama's closest friends, Khalidi, was a fundraiser for the PLO, but i'm sure JR fiends that completely defensible. He'd defend mengele if he had a (D) by his name.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 18, 2010, 04:54:45 PM
Obama is always quick to bash Israel and make outlandish demands upon them while never critizising the PA, no matter how outrageous their behaviour. The outcome has been predictable: the PA have refused to engage in any negotiations.
That is almost true.
Except for the fact that Obama has not "bashed" Israel. Or made outlandish demands. And he has criticized the PA. And the PA did agree to negotiate.
The puctuation was OK though.
Too bad nobody in Israel believes that, his comparison of Israel to Nazi Germany in his Cairo speech springs to mind, for example. Demanding that Israel not build housing in Israel is unreasonable(we're not talking West Bank here). And too bad noobody seems to be able to find any evidence of criticism by Obama of the PA. And the PA is refusing to negotiate, or do you have some evidence of the PA agreeing to negotiate with Israel? The PA is only willing to negotiate with the US, not with Israel. And of course their "negotiations" usually only consists of a list of demands with no actual offers of compromise since they don't scknowledge the right of Israel to exist.
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 18, 2010, 09:14:53 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 18, 2010, 09:02:41 PM
Of course Obama hates Israel. He's a leftist black who was part of a hate-group church for decades.
One of Obama's closest friends, Khalidi, was a fundraiser for the PLO, but i'm sure JR fiends that completely defensible. He'd defend mengele if he had a (D) by his name.
JR that Fiend!
Hans and Siege agree on something. I guess that means Hans is guilty of well-poisoning by association.
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 18, 2010, 09:14:53 PM
He'd defend mengele if he had a (D) by his name.
Harry Mengeled? Sure he sold the best knishes in Brooklyn and could play a decent game of chess to boot.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 18, 2010, 08:54:02 AM
Imagine an American government where in order to stay in power and get anything done, the leader had to get clearance from Pat Robertson and Glenn Beck, and where Beck was Secretary of State and Robertson was Secretary of HUD and also headed up a substantially revamped, powerful and Cabinet level office of "faith-based" initiatives.
That would give you some idea about where the current Israeli government is now.
I know. I've never seen a Prime Minister have to apologise for his cabinet so much. It's absurd and for someone who likes Israel very, very sad. Whether it's Danny Ayalon deliberately humiliating the Turkish ambassador, I think the Shas party embarrassing Biden or Lieberman boycotting Lula's address to the Knesset because he didn't visit Herzl's grave it's unbelievable and very sad. I can only hope that this coalition collapses and Kadima can be brought in to make up the numbers.
QuoteAmazingly, the Saudi Arabian gov't is now more pro-Israel than the US gov't, at least they back an Israeli air strike on Iran and have pledged to support it.
Well the Israelis have always had a relationship with the Saudis. Of course the Saudis will be far less likely to maintain it after Danny Ayalon orchaestrated a photo of him and Feisal al-Saud. That photo's got a lot of play in the Arab media, but I'm not convinced that the short-term PR boost of exposing an open secret is worth the potential cost of making the Saudis and other Arab states regret even their unofficial contacts with Israel.
Right now, tragically, the foreign policy face of Israel is that of a petulant child. I didn't like Leberman but I thought Bibi was a strong and wily enough politician to control things, I'm not so sure anymore.
What is the deal with Ayalon anyway? I thought he was a diplomat.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 20, 2010, 12:30:45 PM
What is the deal with Ayalon anyway? I thought he was a diplomat.
He was. But he's been a ham-handed Deputy Foreign Minister since he became a politician.