So, somewhere else on the internet, I came across the statement that in some places in the US - in particular in Maryland - if you get an income tax refund, it is considered income and taxed as such.
That sounds outlandish to me, so naturally I come to to languish.
Is that for real? Does it happen in places other than Maryland? Is there something more too it, to make so you don't have to pay extra tax for letting the government have your money for a year?
Iowa does. You get charged state income tax on the federal tax refund from the previous year.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 06:02:50 PM
Iowa does. You get charged state income tax on the federal tax refund from the previous year.
So, Iowa's deductions must be on the post-federal net pay, or else you are taxed twice on the same money, right?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 17, 2010, 06:06:34 PM
So, Iowa's deductions must be on the post-federal net pay, or else you are taxed twice on the same money, right?
:hmm:
I don't *think* there's a deduction for federal taxes.
Just checked my return: it's net of *withholding.* So no double taxation.
Only in America. :lol:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 06:09:04 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 17, 2010, 06:06:34 PM
So, Iowa's deductions must be on the post-federal net pay, or else you are taxed twice on the same money, right?
:hmm:
I don't *think* there's a deduction for federal taxes.
Just checked my return: it's net of *withholding.* So no double taxation.
I meant withholding, yes. Makes sense I suppose. Since a federal income tax refund is money that you earned as income but stupidly deferred having it paid to you instead of putting it in the bank, then it would have to be taxed by the state if the state has an income tax.
Edit: So I guess that answers Jake's question. The refund is a deferred income, but it's still income. If, however, the state withhold state taxes on the gross amount, then it would be wrong.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 06:02:50 PM
Iowa does. You get charged state income tax on the federal tax refund from the previous year.
So if the federal government takes too much of your money, you have to pay tax on it before you get it back?
That's... wow. I'm generally happy to pay taxes, but that just strikes me as offensive.
So in general is this considered perfectly okay, or is this one of those many small things that people hate about the system/ gov't but don't really rail against because it's one of many minor stupidities?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 17, 2010, 06:37:15 PM:hmm:I meant withholding, yes. Makes sense I suppose. Since a federal income tax refund is money that you earned as income but stupidly deferred having it paid to you instead of putting it in the bank, then it would have to be taxed by the state if the state has an income tax.
Oh... so what happens is this:
Normally, you pay federal tax on your income. Separate from that, the State also has an income tax. When the State calculates income tax, it's based on whatever portion is left over after federal tax - rather than say, being calculated as a percentage of of the federal tax. So if you get a refund of federal tax money, that money was never counted as income when you earned it for State tax purposes? And thus you pay State income tax on it?
If so, that does make sort of sense.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 06:02:50 PM
Iowa does. You get charged state income tax on the federal tax refund from the previous year.
Same in Georgia. The theory being that you didn't get taxed on it last year, since the federal tax paid offsets your taxable income.
It's an equivalent of getting robbed and then having to pay tax on the money the thief gives you back.
Quote from: Martinus on March 17, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
It's an equivalent of getting robbed and then having to pay tax on the money the thief gives you back.
No, it's not. It's the difference between the two sovereigns and their respective taxation schemes. The state doesn't tax you on the money that you paid to the federal government, but does tax you on the money that you *didn't* pay to the federal government.
Quote from: ulmont on March 17, 2010, 06:48:22 PM
No, it's not. It's the difference between the two sovereigns and their respective taxation schemes. The state doesn't tax you on the money that you paid to the federal government, but does tax you on the money that you *didn't* pay to the federal government.
Yeah. States could either tax gross income and set the tax rate lower or tax net income and set it higher. If they tax net income then including the refund makes perfect sense.
Quote from: Martinus on March 17, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
It's an equivalent of getting robbed and then having to pay tax on the money the thief gives you back.
Your analogy is like a rectum during constipation: strained and full of shit.
Quote from: Martinus on March 17, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
It's an equivalent of getting robbed and then having to pay tax on the money the thief gives you back.
Martinus analogy alert!
I wonder if all those people complaining about how complicated our taxes are in Germany know that you have to pay taxes on both state and federal level in the USA.
Quote from: Zanza on March 17, 2010, 06:58:32 PM
I wonder if all those people complaining about how complicated our taxes are in Germany know that you have to pay taxes on both state and federal level in the USA.
In some cases, state, federal, and city. And if you earn income in multiple states during the year, multiple states and federal. Partners in large firms (who earn income in any state where the partnership has an office), or professional athletes, end up filing in practically every state.
Marty, for your analogy to work a robbery would have to reduce your tax liability. Then it would make perfect sense for it to go back up when you're unrobbed.
Question: what do all those people who staff the kwiki tax prep places do the rest of the year?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 07:20:57 PM
Question: what do all those people who staff the kwiki tax prep places do the rest of the year?
Most of the time they're temps... so I guess they try to find other temp gigs. I assume you're talking about H&R Block and stuff, right?
Quote from: Caliga on March 17, 2010, 07:22:32 PM
Most of the time they're temps... so I guess they try to find other temp gigs. I assume you're talking about H&R Block and stuff, right?
And the folks at Wallie World.
Quote from: DGuller on March 17, 2010, 06:57:14 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 17, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
It's an equivalent of getting robbed and then having to pay tax on the money the thief gives you back.
Your analogy is like a rectum during constipation: strained and full of shit.
:face:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 07:25:08 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 17, 2010, 07:22:32 PM
Most of the time they're temps... so I guess they try to find other temp gigs. I assume you're talking about H&R Block and stuff, right?
And the folks at Wallie World.
Oh, Wallie World is that "Jackson Hewitt" chain, right?
IIRC H&R Block makes you pass some basic course first, so they're not literal temps in the sense that the regional H&R Block manager calls OfficeTeam and says "Hey, I need ten people here tomorrow who can do data entry into a tax program." I have no clue about the Walmart operation but it may be similar.
Quote from: ulmont on March 17, 2010, 06:48:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 17, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
It's an equivalent of getting robbed and then having to pay tax on the money the thief gives you back.
No, it's not. It's the difference between the two sovereigns and their respective taxation schemes. The state doesn't tax you on the money that you paid to the federal government, but does tax you on the money that you *didn't* pay to the federal government.
Careful, in Marti's world there can only be one indivisable Sovereign. Kind of like God only with the additional power to tax.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 06:53:12 PMYeah. States could either tax gross income and set the tax rate lower or tax net income and set it higher. If they tax net income then including the refund makes perfect sense.
Yeah, it does make sense to me now that I've had it explained. Thanks :)
Quote from: Caliga on March 17, 2010, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2010, 07:20:57 PM
Question: what do all those people who staff the kwiki tax prep places do the rest of the year?
Most of the time they're temps... so I guess they try to find other temp gigs. I assume you're talking about H&R Block and stuff, right?
Some of the CPAs at my company do that--they have normal beancounter jobs in our finance department and then they moonlight doing tax returns during the season.
Interesting... I wonder if any of our accountants do that. I work on the same floor as most of the corporate accountants so I'll ask around. I'm 100% certain you do not need to be a CPA to work at an H&R Block however.
Quote from: ulmont on March 17, 2010, 07:00:57 PMIn some cases, state, federal, and city. And if you earn income in multiple states during the year, multiple states and federal. Partners in large firms (who earn income in any state where the partnership has an office), or professional athletes, end up filing in practically every state.
When I worked in New York State, I only filed income taxes at the IRS (in Philadelphia though) and not in New York State. I wonder if I missed something. :hmm: But then I didn't have to pay taxes under some double taxation scheme anyway. :w00t:
Quote from: Zanza on March 18, 2010, 06:12:07 AM
When I worked in New York State, I only filed income taxes at the IRS (in Philadelphia though) and not in New York State. I wonder if I missed something. :hmm: But then I didn't have to pay taxes under some double taxation scheme anyway. :w00t:
International fugitive. :ph34r:
I was in the US twice after that and they didn't arrest me, so I guess it should be fine. ;)
Quote from: Zanza on March 18, 2010, 06:12:07 AM
Quote from: ulmont on March 17, 2010, 07:00:57 PMIn some cases, state, federal, and city. And if you earn income in multiple states during the year, multiple states and federal. Partners in large firms (who earn income in any state where the partnership has an office), or professional athletes, end up filing in practically every state.
When I worked in New York State, I only filed income taxes at the IRS (in Philadelphia though) and not in New York State. I wonder if I missed something. :hmm: But then I didn't have to pay taxes under some double taxation scheme anyway. :w00t:
New York State very likely has compulsory withholding of state taxes, so you probably paid the taxes, just didn't file a return.
Mart pays his taxes in hunks of black bread.
Well we have provicial taxes as well as federal here in Canada as well. When I was in Japan I paid a flat 5% Fed tax, and another 5.5 for local. (this goes as high as 7.5 % iirc the closer you are to the Big cities in Tokyo, like Shinjuku, or Shibuya )
Isn't it fairly normal to pay different levels of government at income tax time?
I don't think we pay prov tax on the fed money here though, it's more of a combo payment. I could be wrong. despite doing my taxes myself every year... correctly, I might add. I'm better at following instructions that getting the concepts :blush: :prole:
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 18, 2010, 08:21:24 AM
Mart pays his taxes in hunks of black bread.
I thought he just had to pull a plow one day a week for his Lord.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 18, 2010, 12:02:08 PM
I don't think we pay prov tax on the fed money here though, it's more of a combo payment. I could be wrong. despite doing my taxes myself every year... correctly, I might add. I'm better at following instructions that getting the concepts :blush: :prole:
We do it differently here Buddha. Your Provincial tax and Federal tax are paid together to the Federal Government and the Feds remit that provincial portion to the Province.
Although in Quebec they might do things differently.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 18, 2010, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 18, 2010, 08:21:24 AM
Mart pays his taxes in hunks of black bread.
I thought he just had to pull a plow one day a week for his Lord.
Jesus is King.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 18, 2010, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 18, 2010, 12:02:08 PM
I don't think we pay prov tax on the fed money here though, it's more of a combo payment. I could be wrong. despite doing my taxes myself every year... correctly, I might add. I'm better at following instructions that getting the concepts :blush: :prole:
We do it differently here Buddha. Your Provincial tax and Federal tax are paid together to the Federal Government and the Feds remit that provincial portion to the Province.
Although in Quebec they might do things differently.
We do but at the end of the day, it's just more bureaucracy.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 18, 2010, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 18, 2010, 12:02:08 PM
I don't think we pay prov tax on the fed money here though, it's more of a combo payment. I could be wrong. despite doing my taxes myself every year... correctly, I might add. I'm better at following instructions that getting the concepts :blush: :prole:
We do it differently here Buddha. Your Provincial tax and Federal tax are paid together to the Federal Government and the Feds remit that provincial portion to the Province.
Although in Quebec they might do things differently.
that's what I meant by a "combo" thing. It's all part of one return. But it doesn't seem like you are paying either on top of the other to me.
Actually I was thinking of getting some software to do my taxes this year, as I totally bollocksed the rrsp thing last year.