ZOMG! TEH RUSSIANS ARE AT THE GATES!!!!!!111
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/world_agenda/article7055260.ece
QuoteVladmir Putin forging ahead with vision of Eurasian empire
Tony Halpin, Moscow
Mr Putin may abolish the rouble and create a common currency with Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine
The Soviet Union is gradually being rebuilt as Vladimir Putin eyes a return to the Kremlin. The man who declared the collapse of the Communist state to be the "greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century" appears determined to forge a new empire.
The latest evidence emerged in a suggestion by Igor Shuvalov, First Deputy Prime Minister in Mr Putin's Government, that Russia may abolish the rouble and create a common currency with Kazakhstan and Belarus.
The three states have already established a customs union and plan to form a single economic market by 2012. Mr Shuvalov said that he would not rule a currency union as "the next logical step", adding that it would be modelled on the euro.
The last time these countries had a common currency, of course, was in Soviet times. Mr Putin was quick to extend an invitation to join the customs union to Viktor Yanukovych, Ukraine's new pro-Russian President, when they met in Moscow on Friday.
Were Ukraine to sign up, there would be a common economic space encompassing the "Big Four" republics of the Soviet era, with a combined population of 213 million and stretching from the European Union to China. Its political, military and economic centre would be in Moscow, where Mr Putin is expected to reclaim the presidency in 2012 for up to 12 more years.
A common currency would give him an economic lever to challenge the US dollar and the euro by creating a regional reserve currency. Finance Minister Aleksei Kudrin stated last month that Russia, as the world's largest energy supplier, may soon sell oil in roubles.
A restored union also offers Russia a chance to "bulk up" as it fights for survival between the EU and Chinese giants. Its industry is outdated in comparison to Europe and out-priced in labour costs by China, so a future beckons as supplier of energy and raw materials to both economies. Mr Putin has no interest in competing on price in these markets with Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
Other ex-Soviet republics would find it hard to resist the gravitational pull of a single currency and economic space. Armenia's economy is almost completely owned by Russian companies already, neighbouring Azerbaijan would risk Russian meddling in the frozen conflict over the Armenian enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, and struggling Kyrgyzstan has already accepted a $2.15 billion (£1,6 billion) bailout from Moscow.
But doesn't the euro demonstrate that independent states can co-exist within a single currency? Aren't fears of a new Soviet Union overblown? Perhaps, although Russia's history of political interference in its former Soviet satellites has no comparison in the EU.
Mr Putin learned his lesson after Ukraine's pro-Western Orange revolution and refrained from overt support of Mr Yanukovych in last month's election. He will have opportunities soon to ensure compliant regimes in Belarus and Kazakhstan.
Aleksandr Lukashenko's third term as President of Belarus ends next year and he will have to show utter loyalty if Mr Putin is to be the only major international leader to endorse a fourth term. Nursultan Nazarbayev will be 70 this year and has no obvious heir in Kazakhstan. When his term as President for life expires, Mr Putin will almost certainly be in the Kremlin and in prime position to influence the choice of successor.
A willingness to defer to Russia as members of a new Eurasian Union, with its own currency controlled from Moscow, may be the price both countries have to pay for nominal independence.
Why would Ukraine be in on this? I can see Belarus and the Stans, but not Ukraine. Perhaps the baltic countries would also join!
Quote from: Razgovory on March 11, 2010, 12:31:42 AM
Why would Ukraine be in on this?
That Yanukovych dude, I guess. Sucks that Yulia lost :(
But hey, what possible negative consequences could their be in tying your economy closely to Russia's, and allowing the Russians to control your currency??
It is a good thing Obama has promised to stand up to Putin. We can all rest easy.
He won't be able to hold it. No one really ever gets the extra 7 troops, let alone 12.
Quote from: derspiess on March 11, 2010, 12:43:17 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 11, 2010, 12:31:42 AM
Why would Ukraine be in on this?
That Yanukovych dude, I guess. Sucks that Yulia lost :(
But hey, what possible negative consequences could their be in tying your economy closely to Russia's, and allowing the Russians to control your currency??
She was hot, but crooked. Though that isn't particularly notworthy. Everyone is crooked in that part of the world. Her opponent was apparently a robber. I'd rather see a crook who leans west then a crook who leans east.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 11, 2010, 12:31:42 AM
Why would Ukraine be in on this? I can see Belarus and the Stans, but not Ukraine. Perhaps the baltic countries would also join!
East Ukraine is strongly pro-Russian, West Ukraine is strongly anti-Russian. If Ukraine were to enter a union again with Russia I'd predict a split of the country.
I guess we should get used to calling the remnant state FSROU (Former Soviet Republic Of Ukraine). :(
Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2010, 01:33:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 11, 2010, 12:31:42 AM
Why would Ukraine be in on this? I can see Belarus and the Stans, but not Ukraine. Perhaps the baltic countries would also join!
East Ukraine is strongly pro-Russian, West Ukraine is strongly anti-Russian. If Ukraine were to enter a union again with Russia I'd predict a split of the country.
I guess we should get used to calling the remnant state FSROU (Former Soviet Republic Of Ukraine). :(
Like a civil war split? I know that western Ukraine is essentially Russian (and was part of the Russian Soviet Republic for a while), but hopefully it wouldn't be that bad. Moscow has already shown an interest in intervening on the side of Pro-Russian separatists. If things go tits up I'm really going to regret not voting for McCain. Hopefully this is just another example of shoddy British journalism.
Old news, the Belarus-Russian union has been around for ages, its just...stalled. Kazakhstan has long been muttering about joining too.
I doubt the Ukraine coming in though. One of the other stans is more likely- one of them expressed interest.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 11, 2010, 01:45:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2010, 01:33:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 11, 2010, 12:31:42 AM
Why would Ukraine be in on this? I can see Belarus and the Stans, but not Ukraine. Perhaps the baltic countries would also join!
East Ukraine is strongly pro-Russian, West Ukraine is strongly anti-Russian. If Ukraine were to enter a union again with Russia I'd predict a split of the country.
I guess we should get used to calling the remnant state FSROU (Former Soviet Republic Of Ukraine). :(
Like a civil war split?
Would be a cool TOAW scenario if you throw in Russian and NATO intervention.
An empire forged out of Eurasian dirt and chimp shit is still a dirty, shitty Eurasian empire. That smells of chimps.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 11, 2010, 06:59:05 AM
An empire forged out of Eurasian dirt and chimp shit is still a dirty, shitty Eurasian empire. That smells of chimps.
and feet.
Wow an empire of impoverished failing states.
I am quaking in my yanqui pigdog booties.
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2010, 09:32:59 AM
Wow an empire of impoverished failing states.
I am quaking in my yanqui pigdog booties.
I was highly amused when their carrier broke down off France a while back.
Oceania Has Always Been at War With Eurasia
Hmmm... might be what is needed to counter China - their agendas are sure to conflict. :cool:
G.
Read in Time that France recently sold Russia 4 Mistral class amphibious assault ships. IIRC it's the first case of Russia buying weaponry from a NATO country.
Is there anything preventing a country from buying a military piece, and then Chineseing it so that you can make it yourself?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2010, 11:20:05 AM
Read in Time that France recently sold Russia 4 Mistral class amphibious assault ships. IIRC it's the first case of Russia buying weaponry from a NATO country.
Medvedev declared NATO to be Russias enemy, shortly after that France sells Russia Ships. That combined with lack of French support in Afghanistan, their sabotage of the Kosovo campaign and other issues. Is it time to kick France out of NATO? (and belgium with it?)
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 11:22:41 AM
Is there anything preventing a country from buying a military piece, and then Chineseing it so that you can make it yourself?
Except making it less likely that anyone sells you anything anymore?
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 11:39:36 AM
Medvedev declared NATO to be Russias enemy, shortly after that France sells Russia Ships. That combined with lack of French support in Afghanistan, their sabotage of the Kosovo campaign and other issues. Is it time to kick France out of NATO? (and belgium with it?)
France has around 4000 troops in Afghanistan (largely in the East of the country and the Khyber pass, largely under American command) as well as keeping one of their fleets in the area - including the Charles de Gaulle. They've doubled their presence over the last couple of years and Sarko's suggested they might send a further 5000 troops.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 13, 2010, 07:12:15 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 11:39:36 AM
Medvedev declared NATO to be Russias enemy, shortly after that France sells Russia Ships. That combined with lack of French support in Afghanistan, their sabotage of the Kosovo campaign and other issues. Is it time to kick France out of NATO? (and belgium with it?)
France has around 4000 troops in Afghanistan (largely in the East of the country and the Khyber pass, largely under American command) as well as keeping one of their fleets in the area - including the Charles de Gaulle. They've doubled their presence over the last couple of years and Sarko's suggested they might send a further 5000 troops.
OMFGFRENCHANTIWESTREJOININGINTEGRATEDCOMMANDSTRUCTUREWORSETHANHITLER freedom fries.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 11:22:41 AM
Is there anything preventing a country from buying a military piece, and then Chineseing it so that you can make it yourself?
Competence?
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 11:22:41 AM
Is there anything preventing a country from buying a military piece, and then Chineseing it so that you can make it yourself?
Technology transfer is often part of the deal
4000 french troops?
When are they going to pull their weight and send 40 000?
Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2010, 12:06:31 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 11:22:41 AM
Is there anything preventing a country from buying a military piece, and then Chineseing it so that you can make it yourself?
Except making it less likely that anyone sells you anything anymore?
Which was why before Israel started selling US military tech to China, they were 20-30 years behind the rest of the world.
Then again, given how easy it is to spy on the West these days, the Russians would have no trouble keeping up. In fact, the Israelis have been infiltrated to the extent that even if they weren't despicable cowards, they would turn anything they are given over to the Russians anyways.