Mrs. MIM and I are trying to decide where to go this year. It's been a couple years since our last trip to Europe and we're due. Since her work brought her to Dublin regularly before, we kinda had an impetus to go. Now Mrs. MIM has moved to a different job in the Evil Empire without a counterpart in Ireland, so it's no longer the automatic destination. But I do love it there.
Anyway, one trip I do want to do soon is NYC. I haven't been there since I was a kid, and I'd love to check out all of the foodie treasures and general sybaritic goodness. But that's a bit of a smaller affair, and not for this year. Or maybe in addition to the big vacation.
So where should I go? I want something creative and not-generally-touristy. When we passed by the Tower of London the last time around, it was jam-packed with Americans wearing Texas Longhorns gear. So we skipped it. I've still never been there despite having been to London several times. I don't like the beach. Not big on clubbing. Usually, I tool around Ireland looking at old castles and battlefields. Actually, I look at battlefields when I'm traveling around the US too. :P
Istanbul struck me as an awesome idea. Sounds like a great place for both food and history. Wouldn't want to get caught in a civil war though. Another thing I considered is one of those cruises down the Danube. The idea of a cruise in general is a bit distasteful to me though. Trapped on a boat with a bunch of people I don't want to be around, only able to get off when the rest of them do and see the sights when the rest of them see them. I like to wander on my own. Blend in.
As for budget---well there really isn't one at the moment. We've tried going the cheap hotel route while across the pond and that has been a disappointment generally. You don't rate your hotels the same way we do over here. You're way too generous with the stars if you know what I mean. It doesn't have to be Hotel Babylon, but I'm willing to pay extra to be comfy.
Another thing I like about Ireland is that they love Americans there. My accent will get me an extra smile from the ladies. I'm guessing I can't really expect that in very many places. I guess my problem is too many possibilities and I don't know where to start.
Why do you support the IRA?
Don't worry about getting any flack for being American. People really won't care much whereever you go, and when they do it'll still likely be some sort of interest rather than anything else.
I think Istanbul would be a lot more interesting than Ireland, given you've been to Ireland already. And if there's a civil war coming, you'll want to see it before then, right?
I'd consider Scandinavia too, for the English access and for the 'slightly off the beaten path' bits, at least for Americans. Both Copenhagen and Stockholm are nice cities to visit, though I'd stick to late spring, summer and early autumn.
For food and history, few places beat Italy; ask CC, he has some good recommendations I think. But really, most places would be good one way or another.
Jacob is right. People who get flak are people who conform to the worst type of tourist, regardless of nationality.
France is also great for food, wine, history: many regions are still under visited by tourists, for no reason. Still Provence, Brittany, Périgord, Burgundy, Languedoc are wonderful places to visit.
I always figured the people who get the worst flak aren't really tourists but people who just fly over a country and drop bombs.
I need a people, vacation. :Embarrass:
Quote from: Jacob on March 09, 2010, 04:02:48 PM
Don't worry about getting any flack for being American. People really won't care much whereever you go, and when they do it'll still likely be some sort of interest rather than anything else.
I think Istanbul would be a lot more interesting than Ireland, given you've been to Ireland already. And if there's a civil war coming, you'll want to see it before then, right?
I'd consider Scandinavia too, for the English access and for the 'slightly off the beaten path' bits, at least for Americans. Both Copenhagen and Stockholm are nice cities to visit, though I'd stick to late spring, summer and early autumn.
For food and history, few places beat Italy; ask CC, he has some good recommendations I think. But really, most places would be good one way or another.
Scandinavia is nice but dull. Not a good holiday place
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 09, 2010, 03:14:54 PM
I guess my problem is too many possibilities and I don't know where to start.
The guidelines of creative and not very touristy doesnt really narrow it down for us. As Jacob suggested my personal favourite is small town Italy where the locals are shocked to see any English speaking tourists. You get amazing food, wine and history at a very reasonable price.
We are thinking about exploring Spain using the same philosophy next.
But that sort of travel isnt for everyone. You really have to figure out what you want out of the trip and then read some travel magazines/sites to get a flavour for what you are looking for.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 09, 2010, 04:59:48 PM
The guidelines of creative and not very touristy doesnt really narrow it down for us.
Part of my problem when it comes to stuff like this is that I really don't know what I want to do. I'm open to an awful lot of things, so it's tough to be specific about it. I need some ideas so I can at least get something to start with. Maybe I should throw darts at a map or something.
Anybody do anything recently they really enjoyed?
As an example, this is what I mean by traveling in small town Italy.
If you like this sort of thing I can give you more info on other sites around Italy.
This place is my personal favourite. We make a point of staying here on every trip.
http://www.malvarina.it/agriturismo_albergo_diffuso_di_campagna_assisi_eng.html
Oh, now that's cool.
Edit: Is that curing meat hanging from the ceiling?
http://travelyukon.com/
Yes, I'm serious.
I've heard good things about Sri Lanka.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 09, 2010, 07:01:27 PM
Oh, now that's cool.
Edit: Is that curing meat hanging from the ceiling?
Yes, that is his main store room. He makes his own salami, cheeses, olive oil (which is exceptional) honey and jams.
Its an agro tourismo so he gets big tax breaks if he produces a certain percentage of food he serves to his guests. That is one of the reasons I love staying at those things.
Also, you should take in the cooking class with his mother - Mumma Maria - it truly is a once in life time experience. If you book it they bring in a woman from (I think Chicago) who has lived in the area for 20 years to translate for you. Experiencing cooking with a real Italian Grandmother is not something to be missed and they have a great kitchen to do it in.
In the evenings, even if you dont take the cooking class, she will prepare dinner, along with the staff, for all the guests and the meal is eaten on the veranda in one of the pictures. Dinner starts around 9 and lasts till 1 or 2 am. That in and of itself is worth the visit.
I knew we had the right spot the first time we were there when I saw that the majority of guests were people from Rome coming up for their holiday.
I see from his website that he has become a better marketer so you may enounter more N. Americans now but still its a great place and very close to Assisi. From there you can easily get to pretty much anywhere in Italy.
Man, that looks awesome, cc. What am I spending? I assume I will have to drive, which is actually something I haven't done in Europe before. No biggie. Also, what kind of side trips do you do when you go? Rome? Venice? Any cool historical sites? Monte Cassino has to be close. I'd like to mourn the rubble the USAF made of that.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 09, 2010, 04:21:24 PM
I always figured the people who get the worst flak aren't really tourists but people who just fly over a country and drop bombs.
:lol:
If you want to stay in an agriturismo in Italy, you can check this site: http://en.agriturismo.it/ (http://en.agriturismo.it/), a good repository with helpful users' comments.
Some years ago I went here: http://www.fattoriapoggioalloro.com/eng/index.htm (http://www.fattoriapoggioalloro.com/eng/index.htm), a very nice place some 30 kms from Florence and Siena.
I suggest you choose a macroregion to visit - Veneto and the Lakes area in Lombardia, or Tuscany and Rome, or Rome and Naples; otherwise, better ask Beeb that came here in 2009 and did all the Grand Tour: Venice, Florence and Rome.
A bit of advice: if you plan to rent a car, don't travel on highways, usually clogged with trucks (and huns travelling to Barcelona ;)), but choose secondary roads: you'll happen to see wonderful landscapes, esp. in Central Italy, and stumble in nice little towns outside the main tourist attractions.
some places to visit outside the Big Three:
In Veneto: Verona, the Brenta River Riviera, Padua (ring the bell in 36, via A*****, and you'll get a round of red wine from a fellow Languishite ;)) , Asolo, Trieste and many other places.
In Tuscany: Pisa, Lucca, Siena (if you plan your visit in the first days of July, be careful because the whole city gets mad with the Palio race!), Volterra, Arezzo and all the small towns in the Florence and Siena countryside.
In Lazio and surroundings: Orvieto, Assisi, Gubbio, Viterbo, Rome, Rome, Rome. I forgot Rome.
If you decide for Italy, just ask and I'll be more than happy to help you plan the trip :)
L.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 09, 2010, 11:13:12 PM
Man, that looks awesome, cc. What am I spending? I assume I will have to drive, which is actually something I haven't done in Europe before. No biggie. Also, what kind of side trips do you do when you go? Rome? Venice? Any cool historical sites? Monte Cassino has to be close. I'd like to mourn the rubble the USAF made of that.
I will gather up some other places we have gone as well. As for cost, I cant really recall the nightly rates. We try to stay for blocks of 3-4 days in one place and then move on and we try to drive no more then four hours in a day. It is a vacation after all. :) In some places you can get a discount for longer stays.
But I do remember the price of the meals on the first stay. We ate their every night without knowing how much it was (no menus - its just what Mamma Maria feels like cooking that day). In the end, a multiple course meal, endless wine, all the mineral water we wanted and after diner drinks cost 25 euros per adult and 15 per child. Rates may have changed since then but I remember wondering how the guy made money at those prices. Certainly a comparable dining experience in Vancouver would be in the many hundreds of dollars.
Regarding driving, yes, to get to agro tourismos you have to drive. For me that is half the fun. The biggest challenge is reverting back to rule based driving when you get back to NA.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 10, 2010, 04:33:32 AM
Some years ago I went here: http://www.fattoriapoggioalloro.com/eng/index.htm (http://www.fattoriapoggioalloro.com/eng/index.htm), a very nice place some 30 kms from Florence and Siena.
Here is another one near, I think very near, the one Pedrito recommended.
http://www.poggiarello.com/?l=en
Its a bit more pricy but I really liked it. This family bought up an old farming village and converted it into an agro tourismo. Its a bit of an adventure getting to it. You literally have to travel on dirt roads that look a bit like goat trails. But the country side is beautiful and again the meals are marvelous. The highlights here are the wine list (the son in law travels Europe in the off season to stock their cellar) and the mother makes home made Lemoncello which is to die for. I made fast friends with the son and son in law and drank wine and lemoncello until the sun came up a few nights.
Here you will see a lot more European tourists (because its Tuscany) but still very few NAs whom you will see flooding most other parts of Tuscany.
For some reason I cant find another of my favourites in Abruzzo but you get the general idea. The web site Pedrito gave is also an excellent resource.
One last tip. If you are going to stay in Rome for any length of time (and what self respecting Languishite wouldn't) I suggest that you rent an apartment rather then stay at a hotel. You will probably get a better location at a much less expensive price. You can use sites like owners direct to set that sort of thing up. Last time we got a great place just off the Campo di Fiori.
Ok this is really the last tip. After a long plane ride to Rome have a private driver pick you up and take you to your apartment. They are not much more expensive then a taxi but you will be in an airconditioned car with a driver that can get you to where you want to go for a set price - so depending on the taxi driver you might get, the private driver might even be less expensive. Plus its really cool to do it this way.
edit; ok I lied, I do have one more tip. If you start in Rome, dont pick up your rental car in Rome. If you can try to arrange to pick it up at a train station outside Rome. It can take forever to drive out of that city.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 10, 2010, 05:10:16 AM
One last tip. If you are going to stay in Rome for any length of time (and what self respecting Languishite wouldn't) I suggest that you rent an apartment rather then stay at a hotel.
Yes. We did this in London as well the last couple times. A company called Acton. We rented them by the week. Mrs. MIM is somewhat good at such things. Usually. (Don't mention the Kensington Day's Inn on Cromwell Road.) The (Acton) rooms were ridiculously small, but nice and close to the tube. They had a small kitchen-like closet thing with a stove and fridge that let us live at least partially out of Tesco and not solely restaurants. No AC. Barbarians.
My wife is a scrooge. Luckily, we haven't had a holiday in two and a half years so there's a bit saved to spend here. Actually, I've made a packet in the stock market and she doesn't really know that. She will. We have to file our taxes soon. :lol:
One of the things I love about you bastards, it's for things like this. Once, I had a layover in London. One day. So, I post--I have one day in London, what do I do?
RH basically gave me an itinerary---I followed it---and it was one of the best days of my life. Absolutely perfect. Avoided the crowded tourist shit, saw as much as possible, all-around great time. Maybe I didn't thank tricky dick for that properly, but I should have. We printed out his post and went with it. I actually had a Languish post in my pocket guiding me through my first extra-NorteAmericano experience. RH--If I find myself in London again soon, I owe you one.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 10, 2010, 05:45:29 AM
One of the things I love about you bastards, it's for things like this. Once, I had a layover in London. One day. So, I post--I have one day in London, what do I do?
:cool:
The next time I go to Europe, I ain't staying in a single hotel. I'll crash with Languishites in exchange for simple gifts. :)
Britain - bottles of bourbon for anyone (since the British are all a bunch of drunks)
Poland - my feet for Marti to molest to his heart's content
Hungary - a porta-potty for Tamas
:smarty:
I'm basking in the fulsome praise here, positively basking :cool:
Glad my suggestions worked out so well for you MIM.
Visit Vienna. :)
Here is the French equivalent to Italy's agroturismo: http://www.bienvenue-a-la-ferme.com/
In related news, the Colosseo is undergoing restoration works so it may be not completely accessible until mid-2011;
and the Leaning Tower of Pisa is not so leaning anymore: in the last ten years massive injections of Viagra into the ground under the foundations made the tower regain 28 millimeters of tilt :yeah:
L.
Silly Italians. Straightening the Leaning Tower of Pisa is like giving the French a shower.
I was in Pisa in 2004 (or maybe 2005, forget for sure) and the tower is still very noticably leany. Took to obligatory forced perspective photo of me trying to push the tower back into place. :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on March 10, 2010, 06:41:03 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 10, 2010, 05:45:29 AM
One of the things I love about you bastards, it's for things like this. Once, I had a layover in London. One day. So, I post--I have one day in London, what do I do?
:cool:
The next time I go to Europe, I ain't staying in a single hotel. I'll crash with Languishites in exchange for simple gifts. :)
Britain - bottles of bourbon for anyone (since the British are all a bunch of drunks)
Poland - my feet for Marti to molest to his heart's content
Hungary - a porta-potty for Tamas
:smarty:
Why don't you mention Sweden? Don't you trust my hospitality?
Quote from: Caliga on March 11, 2010, 12:07:33 PM
I was in Pisa in 2004 (or maybe 2005, forget for sure) and the tower is still very noticably leany. Took to obligatory forced perspective photo of me trying to push the tower back into place. :cool:
:facepalm:
L.
Quote from: Caliga on March 11, 2010, 12:07:33 PM
I was in Pisa in 2004 (or maybe 2005, forget for sure) and the tower is still very noticably leany. Took to obligatory forced perspective photo of me trying to push the tower back into place. :cool:
Dude it was way better in '82 when I was there.
Guedelon Castle, France (http://www.newyorkcarver.com/guedelon.htm) :w00t:
THE PLAN: to reconstruct a Burgundy castle using only medieval building techniques. Ancient techniques are religiously used everywhere, right down to the trees felled in a nearby wood for the timber supports. Here, a carpenter uses mallet and chisel to fashion several supporting posts.
You play golf? visit Alabama, I'll take you to eat some BBQ.
Quote from: Caliga on March 11, 2010, 12:07:33 PM
I was in Pisa in 2004 (or maybe 2005, forget for sure) and the tower is still very noticably leany. Took to obligatory forced perspective photo of me trying to push the tower back into place. :cool:
I was there in 2009, and it still leaned.
Honestly, I could have done without going to Pisa. It was cool for about 15 minutes, but not really much else in the immediate area to look at.
Quote from: Barrister on March 11, 2010, 01:19:57 PM
Honestly, I could have done without going to Pisa. It was cool for about 15 minutes, but not really much else in the immediate area to look at.
I had the exact same impression, actually. :hug:
My general advice on an Italian trip.
First, definitely recommend the country - it was a lot of fun.
Agroturismo - we only stayed in one, in San Gimignano in Tuscany. It was not the experience that CC described - no one cooked for us, or offered to cook for us. But it was a very nice room in a building that used to be a barn, overlooking the farmer's vinyard. When the owners recommended to a local restaurant, the owner's wine was served (and the food was very good).
The nicest day we had (other than hanging out with RH, Tamas, Ank and Leo) was easily just bumming around in San G. So I certainly agree with the suggestion of just picking a region and staying within that region.
That being said, if it's your first time I wouldn't have wanted to miss all the grand sites we saw in Venice and Rome (we never made it to Florence - I don't think my wife realized how much stuff was there, or she would have insisted). We simply couldn't go to Italy and not see the colosseum for example, even though we had an overall nicer time in the smaller towns.
Driving the country roads are nice - but be warned you won't go anywhere very fast! The Autostrada on the other hand gets you moving quickly.
We went to both an Agriturismo restaurant in Tuscany (forget the town, but it was maybe 30 minutes outside of Florence) and one in Lazio, somewhere close to Tivoli. The Tuscan restaurant was probably a little better but we got so drunk there it's hard to say for certain. Both were outstanding though, I'm sure of that.
I think my favorite segment of my trip was in Stresa (technically I think we stayed in Baveno, at this giant hotel called 'Hotel Dino') which is on Lake Maggiore way up on the Swiss border. I probably would have liked Capri equally well but the weather kind of sucked that day--it was rainy and a bit chilly, and we didn't get to go into the Blue Grotto for that reason.
I think you definitely made an error by not visiting Florence, which I thought was great... its only major drawback were the hordes of Gypsy beggars. :mad: We didn't go to the Uffizi Gallery, but we instead went to this museum of ancient history I found in a pamphlet. It was totally deserted despite having an enormous collection of ancient artifacts, including lots of weapons and armor, as well as an impressive collection of Roman statuary.
I've commented here before on Venice, which I personally felt was a letdown because it was so crowded, expensive, and stunk... but it's such a unique place I still think it is worth visiting for sure. It just wasn't as OSSUM as people make it out to be, in my experience.
I also liked Genoa more than I thought I would, but found Milan to be pretty boring.
Oh, we also spent two delightful days in Assisi, which is amazingly well preserved (I felt like I was in a time machine).
I'm also proud to say I visited Monte Cassino and peed on the graves of Polish soldiers. :)
Quote from: Caliga on March 11, 2010, 01:48:11 PM
I've commented here before on Venice, which I personally felt was a letdown because it was so crowded, expensive, and stunk... but it's such a unique place I still think it is worth visiting for sure. It just wasn't as OSSUM as people make it out to be, in my experience.
You should have gone in May. It wasn't crowded and it didn't stink. :showoff:
I actually went in April... strange it didn't smell for you but it did for me. Maybe the city just doesn't like me. :(
I think when we were there there was some German or Austrian holiday because the city was crawling with Germans.... which might also explain the stench. :)
Quote from: Barrister on March 11, 2010, 01:30:49 PM
Agroturismo - we only stayed in one, in San Gimignano in Tuscany. It was not the experience that CC described - no one cooked for us, or offered to cook for us.
You fail at picking accomodations. :P
The cooking is one of the top reasons for staying at these kinds of places. By any chance was it a Sunday?
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 11, 2010, 05:30:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 11, 2010, 01:30:49 PM
Agroturismo - we only stayed in one, in San Gimignano in Tuscany. It was not the experience that CC described - no one cooked for us, or offered to cook for us.
You fail at picking accomodations. :P
The cooking is one of the top reasons for staying at these kinds of places. By any chance was it a Sunday?
It was, but we stayed two nights.
Quote from: Caliga on March 11, 2010, 01:59:37 PM
I think when we were there there was some German or Austrian holiday because the city was crawling with Germans....
You should have gone to Germany at that time, then. :lol: