In early February my girlfriend sold a $500 Louis Vuitton agenda she got for free on Ebay to a buyer in Long Island. After the buyer paid via Paypal, my girlfriend shipped it priority via the United States Postal Service with signature confirmation on February 8th. A week or two later, the buyer contacted her and told her it never arrived. Looking at the tracking info online, the the package apparently arrived at the post office up there on February 9th, was "out for delivery" February 10th, but then the "status was not updated" as of that evening, which would seem to suggest it was not delivered. If it was signed for, the system should have logged it. Unfortunately, although we had signature confirmation on the package, we did not have insurance, meaning if the item was truly lost, we would have to return the money to the buyer, but receive no compensation from the post office.
The buyer has extensive, very good feedback on Ebay. She claimed via E-mail that she had contacted her local post office, and that it could not be found anywhere in the office. I did some research, as well as contacted Paypal and Ebay, and I found out that we were screwed unless I could somehow prove the buyer actually received the item, which I could not. Initially, I figured that the package was either somehow lost, delivered to the wrong house, or delivered without a signature. I also talked to the local post office, which was useless.
This week, the buyer, although very nice and polite, opened a claim on ebay because "she did not want to be out $500." I decided to contact the Long Island post office Monday- the promised return call did not occur. I called the Long Island post office again today. I explained the situation to the postmaster. He told me that at this point two possibilities were likely a)Item was stolen by a postal employee or b)Item was delivered without signature. He told me to call the United States Postal Inspector, the agency that investigates crime that occur in the postal system. I call the office of the Postal Inspector to initiate a claim/investigation. I am told that I should be given an update by Monday.
I explain all this in my response to the buyer's claim in Ebay, and in an email to the buyer. She quickly replies, telling me to call her, which I do. She seems really normal and polite on the phone. She tells me she has contacted the post office numerous times, the carrier, and all her neighbors, to no avail. I explain that I contacted the Postal Service Inspector. She seems concerned that I will not be protected by Ebay or Paypal- she says that she is willing to compromise and maybe accept a partial refund. All the while, I have been a little suspicious of her, so I tell her we should wait until I hear back from the Inspector's office.
Less than a hour ago, my girlfriend receives an e-mail from the buyer. The buyer said that the agenda mysteriously showed up on the doorsteps of the buyer. Apparently, the box of the agenda was destroyed, and the agenda was a little wet, and some pages were missing, but it was there!
Of course, my girlfriend and I are happy because that means we won't have to worry about refunding the $500, but what I'm now wondering is, who was the criminal here- the buyer, or someone in the post office? Obviously, whatever happened, it doesn't really matter to me now, but I do think it is an interesting mystery figuring out what the hell happened:
The buyer theory- The buyer managed to receive the package without signing for it somehow. Realizing that the package would appear to be lost if not signed for, the buyer attempted to act as though the item was lost so that she could get the $500 back as a refund, plus keep the agenda. Once I told her the postal inspector's office was initiating an investigation, she panicked and concoted a story. The problem with this theory is that I find it hard to believe someone would just randomly commit a crime- after all, had the agenda been sent w/o signature confirmation, there could have been no scam. The Ebay listing did not say the item would be sent with signature confirmation. Also, the buyer has an AOL e-mail address and a lot of feedback on Ebay. That would suggest she's not the typical scammer with no feedback and a free, anonymous web based email account. Then again, she could be an amateur scam artist. Maybe this was her first attempt, which she decided to execute only after receiving the package without having to sign for it.
The rogue postal employee theory: Someone working in the Long Island post office opened the package, realized something was valuable inside, and took it for themselves. Once the thief got word that an official investigation was being opened, he or she dropped the agenda off at the house where it was supposed to go. The problem with that theory is that I doubt the employees in the Long Island post office would hear about an investigation from the Inspectors Office until at least tomorrow, as I didn't call the Inspector's Office until about 4 PM today. Also, if a postal employee did steal the agenda, they probably would have sold it by now. Finally, the agenda was shipped in an large, generic envelope- it would be very difficult to tell that something was valuable inside, and I doubt post office employees randomly open packages unless they are pretty confident there will be something good inside. Then again, I'm sure there's plenty of dimwitted post office employees around. Theft is certainly not uncommon.
The coincidence theory: The agenda was delivered to the wrong person/went missing somewhere randomly, and somehow got damaged, but a good samaritan dropped it off to the rightful address.
Something definitely seems fishy one way or the other- the item turning up the same day I tell the buyer that I have called the Inspector's Office, after it has been missing for over 3 weeks? Anyways, I plan on telling all this to the Inspector's agent whenever he or she calls me. The federal mail fraud statute would seem to cover attempted fraud, if indeed thats what actually happened, but somehow I feel in the end justice will not be served. :(
All I gathered from that story is that there are, apparently, notebooks that people are willing to pay $500 for. :huh:
I definitely think it's the buyer.
What justice needs to be served if you get your cash and the buyer gets the product?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 05, 2010, 02:14:21 AM
I definitely think it's the buyer.
I suspect the seller.
Quote from: sbr on March 05, 2010, 02:27:51 AM
What justice needs to be served if you get your cash and the buyer gets the product?
I was being a little sarcastic there. But, potentially whoever tried this scam could try it on someone else and succeed. The only reason it failed here was because I was persistent. I could see other people giving in earlier.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on March 05, 2010, 02:10:08 AM
All I gathered from that story is that there are, apparently, notebooks that people are willing to pay $500 for. :huh:
A fool and his money...
Does your girlfriend have big boobs.
Quote from: stjaba on March 04, 2010, 11:52:08 PM
The rogue postal employee theory:
I knew a postal inspector once. He always used UPS for a reason.
My initial theory was the buyer is a post(wo)man or knows the postman or something so they arranged just to hand it over.
Later it sounds like a postman who got scared and then delivered it but...how would a postman know how valuable this thing is? To a typical person its just a weird little book.
Quote from: stjaba on March 04, 2010, 11:52:08 PM
The buyer theory- The buyer managed to receive the package without signing for it somehow. Realizing that the package would appear to be lost if not signed for, the buyer attempted to act as though the item was lost so that she could get the $500 back as a refund, plus keep the agenda. Once I told her the postal inspector's office was initiating an investigation, she panicked and concoted a story. The problem with this theory is that I find it hard to believe someone would just randomly commit a crime- after all, had the agenda been sent w/o signature confirmation, there could have been no scam. The Ebay listing did not say the item would be sent with signature confirmation. Also, the buyer has an AOL e-mail address and a lot of feedback on Ebay. That would suggest she's not the typical scammer with no feedback and a free, anonymous web based email account. Then again, she could be an amateur scam artist. Maybe this was her first attempt, which she decided to execute only after receiving the package without having to sign for it.
I'm with this.
Everyone lies and is a potential criminal :licklips:
I think the some person in the postal system lost the parcel (slid down behind a seat/behind a machine, whatever) and just reinserted it in to the delivery stream it (damaged, because it was crushed behind the seat or stepped on because it was on the floor, or whatever) when it was found, and it was then delivered.
This happens once in a while even when you use UPS.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Seriously UPS over USPS?
Quote from: grumbler on March 05, 2010, 07:26:33 AM
I think the some person in the postal system lost the parcel (slid down behind a seat/behind a machine, whatever) and just reinserted it in to the delivery stream it (damaged, because it was crushed behind the seat or stepped on because it was on the floor, or whatever) when it was found, and it was then delivered.
This happens once in a while even when you use UPS.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
This.
Glad it all worked out in the end, though. Also, please let me know how your girlfriend got this $500 book for free. :)
Googling Louis Vuitton agenda, as I have no idea what agenda means in this context, it appears to be some kind of personal organizer or book. I can't believe someone would pay $500 for that.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 05, 2010, 08:53:00 AM
Googling Louis Vuitton agenda, as I have no idea what agenda means in this context, it appears to be some kind of personal organizer or book. I can't believe someone would pay $500 for that.
That's what an agenda is.
BTW, GF- AOL email address is free nowadays; anybody with an AIM account can use an @aol.com address. Sprint IP used to (probably still does) kick a lot of scammers using AOL addresses.
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 05, 2010, 08:55:39 AM
That's what an agenda is.
I've never in my entire life heard of this called an agenda.
I have. :)
stjaba, answer my question! :contract:
Quote from: merithyn on March 05, 2010, 09:36:24 AM
I have. :)
stjaba, answer my question! :contract:
Her boss (a doctor) got it for free as a freebie/prize/giveaway in Las Vegas. At my girlfriend's work, a pediatricians office, they have some sort of incentive system, and basically almost all the non-doctor employees are eligible for monthly (or quarterly?) raffle/giveaway that the doctors contribute to. Usually the items are like worth 50 bucks, but I guess this time the docs decided to be generous and my girlfriend got lucky and won it .
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I am now pretty confident that it was the buyer who was trying to pull a fast one. The buyer sent this email to us this morning:
"eBay closed the case. Can you alert the postmaster inspector???"
I don't think so :lol: :lol: :lol: Even if nothing gets done, I hope she lives in terror for the next few days.
Quote from: grumbler on March 05, 2010, 07:26:33 AM
I think the some person in the postal system lost the parcel (slid down behind a seat/behind a machine, whatever) and just reinserted it in to the delivery stream it (damaged, because it was crushed behind the seat or stepped on because it was on the floor, or whatever) when it was found, and it was then delivered.
This happens once in a while even when you use UPS.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
That does strike me as plausible, except for the fact that package was allegedly dropped off in the very late afternoon/early evening. As far as I am used to, mail is typically delivered in the morning or early to mid afternoon.
Quote from: sbr on March 05, 2010, 02:27:51 AM
What justice needs to be served if you get your cash and the buyer gets the product?
Because otherwise the buyer gets a freeroll. She wins if her scam works, and is no worse off if it doesn't.
I think the buyer is the scammer. "Finding" something almost immediately after finding out that the heat was on is a classic tell-tale sign of an amateur thief suddenly realizing that they didn't think things through.
I think the theory about it being a theft of opportunity is spot on; lots of people are not hardened criminals, but have moral foundation shaky enough to try to pull something when the opportunity presents itself.
Quote from: grumbler on March 05, 2010, 07:26:33 AM
I think the some person in the postal system lost the parcel (slid down behind a seat/behind a machine, whatever) and just reinserted it in to the delivery stream it (damaged, because it was crushed behind the seat or stepped on because it was on the floor, or whatever) when it was found, and it was then delivered.
This happens once in a while even when you use UPS.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
This is a great motto for dealing with any postal or delivery company, it may even be written on the side of Purolater vans, or at least it should be.
The fact that she was willing to accept a partial refund is extremely suspect. If she got nothing, she'd want her money back. All of it.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 05, 2010, 01:08:59 PM
The fact that she was willing to accept a partial refund is extremely suspect. If she got nothing, she'd want her money back. All of it.
yeah this is the one thing that marks her the most as a suspect. but I guess there's no real proof.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 05, 2010, 01:08:59 PM
The fact that she was willing to accept a partial refund is extremely suspect. If she got nothing, she'd want her money back. All of it.
Yeah that struck me as a little suspicious too.
I did a Google search for her email, and the only hits were posts on pageant websites that seemed geared to five year old girls. :yuk: http://www.voy.com/53332/
I also put her address in Google maps, and it turns out she lives in some generic Levittown-like suburb in Long Island. It would have been so embarrassing to be scammed by a suburban pageant mom. :lmfao:
Perhaps there was a hidden agenda to her shenanigans?
Quote from: grumbler on March 05, 2010, 07:26:33 AM
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Defense lawyers frequently like to claim conspiracy or malice against their client when the slightest thing goes wrong in an investigation. I always want to say - you've dealed with government before - we couldn't pull off a conspiracy against your client if we tried!
Quote from: Tyr on March 05, 2010, 06:37:29 AM
how would a postman know how valuable this thing is? To a typical person its just a weird little book.
It doesn't take a genius to know that Louis Vuitton items are expensive.
Quote from: garbon on March 05, 2010, 07:07:10 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 05, 2010, 06:37:29 AM
how would a postman know how valuable this thing is? To a typical person its just a weird little book.
But it takes a fashion nerd to tell a fake from a genuine.
It doesn't take a genius to know that Louis Vuitton items are expensive.
Quote from: Lucidor on March 06, 2010, 01:17:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 05, 2010, 07:07:10 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 05, 2010, 06:37:29 AM
how would a postman know how valuable this thing is? To a typical person its just a weird little book.
But it takes a fashion nerd to tell a fake from a genuine.
It doesn't take a genius to know that Louis Vuitton items are expensive.
You've really got to stop that.