Ok, so times for jeers and wtf!?!
I ordered a new alienware Aurora Desk Stop;
Windows 7
Intel i7 920 (3.2GHz w/ 8MB cache)
Dual 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240's
1 TB RAID 0 (2x 500GB Sata-II)
6GB Triple Channel 1333Mhz DDR3
plus various other bells and whistles
So, will this be able to run stuff ok? Or am I buying outdated stuff already?
Whats the motherboard? Whats the PCI express chip?
Can't ask easy questions I know....argh!
I know it's a micro ATX motherboard but not sure which one...will look it up tomorrow.
I don't know that you need to RAID the harddrives, but that should work out well for you.
I'd hate to ask what it's costing you though. :o
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2010, 10:10:15 PM
I don't know that you need to RAID the harddrives, but that should work out well for you.
I'd hate to ask what it's costing you though. :o
After a Union rebate (they have a deal with Dell) it comes out to around $2,000 (with tax and shipping). Probably could have done it cheaper by assembling it myself but wanted to avoid the hassles (parts not working, not working together, etc).
Quote from: Strix on February 04, 2010, 09:40:51 PM
So, will this be able to run stuff ok?
You MIGHT be able to run WoW on it
Quote from: Strix on February 04, 2010, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2010, 10:10:15 PM
I don't know that you need to RAID the harddrives, but that should work out well for you.
I'd hate to ask what it's costing you though. :o
After a Union rebate (they have a deal with Dell) it comes out to around $2,000 (with tax and shipping). Probably could have done it cheaper by assembling it myself but wanted to avoid the hassles (parts not working, not working together, etc).
You could have bought a Mac Pro for that much money. :o
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2010, 11:27:43 PM
Quote from: Strix on February 04, 2010, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2010, 10:10:15 PM
I don't know that you need to RAID the harddrives, but that should work out well for you.
I'd hate to ask what it's costing you though. :o
After a Union rebate (they have a deal with Dell) it comes out to around $2,000 (with tax and shipping). Probably could have done it cheaper by assembling it myself but wanted to avoid the hassles (parts not working, not working together, etc).
You could have bought a Mac Pro for that much money. :o
I agree, it's way too much money to spend on any computer, let alone a mac.
If I were to get a new, non-mobile, rig today I would get this combo...
motherboard: ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO
processor: AMD Phenom II X2 550
The processor is 2x3.1GHz but with this motherboard it's possible to unlock the two extra dormant cores of the phenom and get 4x3.1GHz. Price for motherboard and processor, 1800SEK (that's 240USD) at my local store. That's half the cost of the intel i7 processor alone!
If you throw in 4GB of DDR3 PC12800 RAM, a cheap 1GB graphics card and use a pre-existing chassi/HDD you're sitting pretty for less than 450USD.
Quote from: Strix on February 04, 2010, 10:07:51 PM
Can't ask easy questions I know....argh!
I know it's a micro ATX motherboard but not sure which one...will look it up tomorrow.
:lol:
Alienware :lmfao:
No offense Strix, but you really should have asked us for advice before you went ahead and bought that. You overpaid by many, many hundreds of dollars.
Quote from: Caliga on February 05, 2010, 09:27:36 AM
Alienware :lmfao:
No offense Strix, but you really should have asked us for advice before you went ahead and bought that. You overpaid by many, many hundreds of dollars.
Plus, do you think Strix realizes that RAID-0 is mirroring? All RAID-0 would mean is that for every byte you put on HDD 1, an identical byte will be written to HDD 2.
Atleast, it'll look good.
Around 1550$. Cheaper then I would have expected.
Quote from: Caliga on February 05, 2010, 09:27:36 AM
Alienware :lmfao:
No offense Strix, but you really should have asked us for advice before you went ahead and bought that. You overpaid by many, many hundreds of dollars.
Okay, this is where I'll stick up for Strix.
Yeah, you guys can come up with all kinds of 'equivalent' systems, but they aren't actually the same. We've had these debates before - someone will say 'oh you can take some POS processor, overclock it, and it'll be just as good' except it isn't quite the same.
That's a lot of serious silicon that Strix just bought, and I very much doubt you'd be able to buy anything exactly the same for any less than he paid.
Trouble with Alienware though is it looks like hell.
Lets see.
By my recon, Strix computers is around 1550$ + taxes & shipping, in US currency.
All price are from NCIX.com unless noted.
Windows 7 : 207$, 116$ for OEM
Intel i7 920 (3.2GHz w/ 8MB cache) : A 920 is 2.66hz at 305$, The overclock 3.2 version is 200$ more from Dell.
Dual 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240's : This part is Confusing since Nvidia only sells the GTS as an OEM product but a GT 240 is 78.19$ x2
1 TB RAID 0 (2x 500GB Sata-II) Dell sells Samsungs : 50$ x2 from Newegg
6GB Triple Channel 1333Mhz DDR3 = No idea what Dell sells but OCZ set is 151$
Now we need more a case, a motherboard, a power supply and a dvd-rom
A case : I like the HAF 932 & it's expensive 155$
A motherboard : Aurora sports micro-atx cards : a Microstar supporting the i7 & 1333 memory is 161$
A Power Supply : Strix probably got the 525w version : Coolermaster 550w 61$
A Dvd Burner : Samsungs are 25$
Total cost 1114$ + Windows 7.
Much cheaper. NCIX builds the computer for you for 50$
The extra money isn't that major an issue. If I were single I would build my own. I am married and the extra dough it costs to prevent my wife from nagging and stating I told you so for every mishap that occurred while building a new computer is well worth it.
I just want something to run WoW better and STO plus any new games coming out. I am replacing something about 5-6 years out of date (Athalon AMD 1.6 GHz). A lot of the added cost is a new monitor and speaker system.
GF,
I got the 875W power supply. The computer also comes with a liquid cooling system.
Quote from: Strix on February 05, 2010, 01:32:21 PM
The extra money isn't that major an issue. If I were single I would build my own. I am married and the extra dough it costs to prevent my wife from nagging and stating I told you so for every mishap that occurred while building a new computer is well worth it.
I just want something to run WoW better and STO plus any new games coming out. I am replacing something about 5-6 years out of date (Athalon AMD 1.6 GHz). A lot of the added cost is a new monitor and speaker system.
I approve of you getting the 875w version !
As for WoW improving, don't buy a SLI system. WoW doesn't support SLI.
Strix and Beeb, I don't think anyone is saying that this PC is a piece of shit. Going by the specs you listed it most definitely *is not*... it's modern and will run most stuff without a problem. Only unknown to me is the gfx setup, but it should be decent I would think.
My concern is only that you got taken to the cleaners, but since you don't seem to care about that, then that's cool. :)
*checks* It looks like the GT 240 is a budget card.... so it's weird that Alienware would put that into an SLI config. :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on February 05, 2010, 01:45:16 PM
*checks* It looks like the GT 240 is a budget card.... so it's weird that Alienware would put that into an SLI config. :huh:
Dell puts GTS 240. The only references I could find to it are on Nvidia's website.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gts_240_us.html
Quote from: Vricklund on February 05, 2010, 06:11:38 AM
... it's way too much money to spend on any computer, let alone a mac.
If I were to get a new, non-mobile, rig today I would get this combo...
motherboard: ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO
processor: AMD Phenom II X2 550
The processor is 2x3.1GHz but with this motherboard it's possible to unlock the two extra dormant cores of the phenom and get 4x3.1GHz. Price for motherboard and processor, 1800SEK (that's 240USD) at my local store. That's half the cost of the intel i7 processor alone!
If you throw in 4GB of DDR3 PC12800 RAM, a cheap 1GB graphics card and use a pre-existing chassi/HDD you're sitting pretty for less than 450USD.
I'm slightly out of the loop regarding AMD. Do they have anything with triple channel? I'm going to get a new Linux rendering rig, and thus it needs as much memory as possible (without going into workstation-grade prices).
My initial idea was obviously a 920 with 12 Gb.
Quote from: Iormlund on February 05, 2010, 05:05:20 PM
Quote from: Vricklund on February 05, 2010, 06:11:38 AM
... it's way too much money to spend on any computer, let alone a mac.
If I were to get a new, non-mobile, rig today I would get this combo...
motherboard: ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO
processor: AMD Phenom II X2 550
The processor is 2x3.1GHz but with this motherboard it's possible to unlock the two extra dormant cores of the phenom and get 4x3.1GHz. Price for motherboard and processor, 1800SEK (that's 240USD) at my local store. That's half the cost of the intel i7 processor alone!
If you throw in 4GB of DDR3 PC12800 RAM, a cheap 1GB graphics card and use a pre-existing chassi/HDD you're sitting pretty for less than 450USD.
I'm slightly out of the loop regarding AMD. Do they have anything with triple channel? I'm going to get a new Linux rendering rig, and thus it needs as much memory as possible (without going into workstation-grade prices).
My initial idea was obviously a 920 with 12 Gb.
I think some AM3-socket motherboards now supports tripple channel. This one does not however.
I was looking at this processor/motherboard-combo for CFD simulations. DDR2 sticks are cheaper so I could get 8 or 16 GB working in 2xdual channel. Is tripple channel really that much better (considering the price)?
Not directly, no. I just want a lot of memory, because once you run out (and you will run out) performance dies a horrible death. So you spend most of the time worrying about memory usage instead of how to make your render look good.
Iorm, if you ever come to Yukon you can do renders to your heart's content with my 10GB RAM. :showoff:
Quote from: Barrister on February 06, 2010, 11:59:24 AM
Iorm, if you ever come to Yukon you can do renders to your heart's content with my 10GB RAM. :showoff:
Except that your memory is still just dual channel, which Vrickland notes you can get working in 16GB pretty cheaply, but it isn't triple channel no matter how big (unless, of course, Iorm goes with a triple-channel board).
And, does your rig even
support Linux?
Quote from: grumbler on February 07, 2010, 05:43:13 PM
Except that your memory is still just dual channel, which Vrickland notes you can get working in 16GB pretty cheaply, but it isn't triple channel no matter how big (unless, of course, Iorm goes with a triple-channel board).
And, does your rig even support Linux?
Jumping to Beeb's defense, Boot Camp. :contract:
Also, it's not readily recognizable, but Mac OSX, being a Unix-derived platform, is way closer to Linux than any Windows rig. :nerd:
Quote from: grumbler on February 07, 2010, 05:43:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 06, 2010, 11:59:24 AM
Iorm, if you ever come to Yukon you can do renders to your heart's content with my 10GB RAM. :showoff:
Except that your memory is still just dual channel, which Vrickland notes you can get working in 16GB pretty cheaply, but it isn't triple channel no matter how big (unless, of course, Iorm goes with a triple-channel board).
And, does your rig even support Linux?
It does. -_-
And honestly I'm not sure how to compare the triple-channel stuff with my fully buffered memory. :huh:
They are two very different approaches. Fully buffered sticks are slower (both increased latency and decreased bandwidth). They were designed to cram as many sticks as you could buy (and boy are they expensive) on a workstation or server. You sacrifice a bit of performance and a kidney to be able to load massive amounts of data to memory.
Quote from: Iormlund on February 08, 2010, 03:18:25 PM
They are two very different approaches. Fully buffered sticks are slower (both increased latency and decreased bandwidth). They were designed to cram as many sticks as you could buy (and boy are they expensive) on a workstation or server. You sacrifice a bit of performance and a kidney to be able to load massive amounts of data to memory.
The memory wasn't that bad for price. It was $200 for the extra 8GB.
I hate micro-ATX. You need to be a surgeon to ever get anything done inside the case, and you'll probably need to sooner or later. It also limits you severely in your choice of video cards, should you want to upgrade down the road.
Quote from: DGuller on February 08, 2010, 05:22:04 PM
I hate micro-ATX. You need to be a surgeon to ever get anything done inside the case, and you'll probably need to sooner or later. It also limits you severely in your choice of video cards, should you want to upgrade down the road.
x2
Avoid like the plague.
x3
Quote from: Caliga on February 09, 2010, 06:27:18 AM
x3
-1
I have the tremmors of an 80-year-old and mATX boards are just fine. Sure they can be a little cramped sometimes but it's worth it if you can fit it all in a sleeker case.
Americans and their sausage fingers... :rolleyes: :lol:
back to x3.
I don't have a problem perse with micro atx mobo. I have a problem with small cases.
Quote from: DGuller on February 08, 2010, 05:22:04 PM
I hate micro-ATX. You need to be a surgeon to ever get anything done inside the case, and you'll probably need to sooner or later. It also limits you severely in your choice of video cards, should you want to upgrade down the road.
I think that more depends on your case and placement configuration; my Radeon X1650 Pro fit pretty easily into my uATX Compaq, since it's a flipped board where you put expansions in topside-down.
Quote from: grumbler on February 09, 2010, 12:08:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 08, 2010, 05:22:04 PM
I hate micro-ATX. You need to be a surgeon to ever get anything done inside the case, and you'll probably need to sooner or later. It also limits you severely in your choice of video cards, should you want to upgrade down the road.
x2
Avoid like the plague.
Where's all the uATX hate coming from? If I were to complain about uATX, it'd be about the limited availabity of mobos with sockets for more powerful processors; they're not that hard to get into and work around, and I've got some pretty thick bear paws for hands.
Quote from: Barrister on February 08, 2010, 04:44:28 PM
The memory wasn't that bad for price. It was $200 for the extra 8GB.
Must have been a pretty good deal. They were really expensive at Dell. Although there's always the 1$ = 1€ factor. :mad:
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 09, 2010, 08:24:25 AM
back to x3.
I don't have a problem perse with micro atx mobo. I have a problem with small cases.
You know what they say, Large case small ......
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 09, 2010, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 09, 2010, 08:24:25 AM
back to x3.
I don't have a problem perse with micro atx mobo. I have a problem with small cases.
You know what they say, Large case small ......
well? what? Raid Array? Memory speed? what? tell me!
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 09, 2010, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 09, 2010, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 09, 2010, 08:24:25 AM
back to x3.
I don't have a problem perse with micro atx mobo. I have a problem with small cases.
You know what they say, Large case small ......
well? what? Raid Array? Memory speed? what? tell me!
small amount of frustration. What did you think I was talking about?
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 09, 2010, 09:05:34 AM
Where's all the uATX hate coming from? If I were to complain about uATX, it'd be about the limited availabity of mobos with sockets for more powerful processors; they're not that hard to get into and work around, and I've got some pretty thick bear paws for hands.
Where is it coming from?
1. Heat. The closer the components, the more heat from one affects another.
2. Blockage. Components can block the user from using adjacent slots simply because everything is so close together than one cannot fit the two components in the available space.
3. Difficulty working on the components. The closer everything is together, the more difficult it is to work on one component without impacting on another.
There seems to be no reason to actually go with uATX unless one's case simply won't fit a full ATX board. The argument that cables are easier to arrange if one is using a uATX board has never been compelling for me, and generally prices are really no better for the uATX than an equivelent ATX board.
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 09:55:26 AM
Where is it coming from?
1. Heat. The closer the components, the more heat from one affects another.
2. Blockage. Components can block the user from using adjacent slots simply because everything is so close together than one cannot fit the two components in the available space.
3. Difficulty working on the components. The closer everything is together, the more difficult it is to work on one component without impacting on another.
There seems to be no reason to actually go with uATX unless one's case simply won't fit a full ATX board. The argument that cables are easier to arrange if one is using a uATX board has never been compelling for me, and generally prices are really no better for the uATX than an equivelent ATX board.
I'll grant the price concerns; for my own purposes, I guess I simply discount full-ATX as too large to fit anywhere in my apartment. Heat... I've seen some cool uATX systems, and I've seen crappily-designed ATX cases that roasted boards- I think you'll find heat is more of a manufacturer issue than a standards issue.
Also, as far as size, I think you guys with the ATX hard-ons need to take a step back and mess with ISA slots in 386es and
then tell me about cramped. It's all what you're used to.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 23, 2010, 04:20:23 PM
I'll grant the price concerns; for my own purposes, I guess I simply discount full-ATX as too large to fit anywhere in my apartment. Heat... I've seen some cool uATX systems, and I've seen crappily-designed ATX cases that roasted boards- I think you'll find heat is more of a manufacturer issue than a standards issue.
Also, as far as size, I think you guys with the ATX hard-ons need to take a step back and mess with ISA slots in 386es and then tell me about cramped. It's all what you're used to.
I've been messing around with computers ever since the 486 days, and I've never seen one as tightly packed as my uATX HP DOA. It was like an electronic device that was not meant to be opened. The older computers had plenty of other uber-annoying physical and logical things about them, but lack of space wasn't an issue.
Quote from: DGuller on February 23, 2010, 06:13:25 PM
I've been messing around with computers ever since the 486 days, and I've never seen one as tightly packed as my uATX HP DOA. It was like an electronic device that was not meant to be opened. The older computers had plenty of other uber-annoying physical and logical things about them, but lack of space wasn't an issue.
Well, what you need to remember is that Dell and HP were pretty bad about "tweaking" the uATX spec with things to make working the computers "easier" that just took up unnecessary space and nonstandard connectors that frustrated the hell out of techs. Dell in particular has an amazing ability to waste any amount of space- I've got a full-ATX Dell Optiplex gathering dust in the office that has this obnoxious "lever removal system" that they had to split the motherboard and flip around expansion slots to fit in the computer.
I don't understand the uATX fanboyism. I have worked on hundreds of computers, and have never seen a uATX rig that was easier to work on than an ATX equivelent. The fact that the worse ATX rig is worse than the best uATX rig says nothing whatever about averages. I think common sense should tell everyone that having more space for airflow will make the average ATX system cooler than the equivalent uATX system in the same case, so I don't think fanboyism is going to change anyone's mind, but it puzzles me.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 23, 2010, 04:20:23 PM
Also, as far as size, I think you guys with the ATX hard-ons need to take a step back and mess with ISA slots in 386es and then tell me about cramped. It's all what you're used to.
Given the fact that the DIY market is dominated by ATX builds, this comment strikes me as a little strange. I dunno if the prebuilt market is dominated by ATX builds anymore.
Unless things have changed, my understanding is that most premium motherboards don't have a non-ATX option.
Also, it's not 1998 anymore.
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 01:22:06 PM
I don't understand the uATX fanboyism. I have worked on hundreds of computers, and have never seen a uATX rig that was easier to work on than an ATX equivelent. The fact that the worse ATX rig is worse than the best uATX rig says nothing whatever about averages. I think common sense should tell everyone that having more space for airflow will make the average ATX system cooler than the equivalent uATX system in the same case, so I don't think fanboyism is going to change anyone's mind, but it puzzles me.
I think there are situations where ATX is preferable & others where micro-ATX is preferable. I have to say I'm kind of leaning towards micro-ATX for my next build. I don't make use of the 'extra' slots on my current system, and a micro-ATX machine would fit much better in my office.
Quote from: derspiess on February 24, 2010, 04:47:27 PM
I think there are situations where ATX is preferable & others where micro-ATX is preferable. I have to say I'm kind of leaning towards micro-ATX for my next build. I don't make use of the 'extra' slots on my current system, and a micro-ATX machine would fit much better in my office.
That's a valid reason to go micro - because you want a case that won't fit a full ATX.
Getting a uATX when one could have a full ATX in the same case seems daft to me.
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 08:30:34 PM
Getting a uATX when one could have a full ATX in the same case seems daft to me.
Okay, definitely agree with that. Unless you're re-using a component and/or find too good deal on something, I see no reason for it.
OK; I'm not advocating DIY uATX, except in cases where you have really tiny space to work with, like my midget of an apartment.
Also, Grumbler, once again, airflow is not the same across the board; it varies from case manufacturer to case manufacturer- if you shell out on a top-shelf CM case, then yes, you'll get good airflow, but I've seen substantial heat damage from crappily-designed no-name ATX cases that didn't take airflow into account for any other than a handful of mobos.
I also agree completely that putting uATX in a full ATX case would be ridiculous; space is not an issue then, and cost savings are likely to be negated by the custom mobo risers you'd have to install.