So if they go into receivership does the country go back to Turkey? :unsure:
QuoteGreece to face European Commission economic scrutiny
Prime Minister George Papandreou is seeking support for austerity measures
Greece will face the most stringent monitoring of any European Union country as it attempts to balance its finances over the next few years.
The news came as the European Commission confirmed its support of Greece's plans to reduce its deficit.
EU economic commissioner Joaquín Almunia also launched an infringement procedure to ensure Greek authorities report reliable budgetary statistics.
Greece's deficit is more than four times higher than eurozone rules allow.
ANALYSIS
Jonny Dymond, BBC Europe correspondent
The concern in Brussels is not just that Greece might need to be bailed out, but also that financial markets' nervousness about Greece might spread to other euro-economies in trouble.
So the commission is recommending acceptance of Greece's plan to cut its deficit - but also the most extensive intrusion into a member state's economy that the EU has known.
Few in Brussels appear to believe that the Greek government will hold to its promises to slash the deficit unless it is being pushed hard by euro partners.
And after long years of dodgy statistics from the Greek authorities, the EU is insisting on a direct role in the monitoring of Greece's recovery plan.
Progress reviews
Mr Almunia welcomed the additional fiscal measures taken by Greece.
He said: "We consider that the programme is ambitious, and that the programme in terms of targets is achievable.
"We are endorsing the Greek programme. But at the same time we know that the implementation of the programme is not easy. It is difficult. This deserves support."
However, Mr Almunia acknowledged that tackling the debt was difficult politically and complex technically.
He said that EU officials would monitor carefully the efforts of the Greek programme and would demand extra action if it was not on track to meet the deficit goals.
EU economic ministers will next meet on 16 February. Provided they accept the commission's recommendations, new deadlines will be set for Greece to review progress with officials.
It will have to submit a first report on 16 March, with a second deadline on 16 May.
Nigel Cassidy, the BBC's Europe business reporter, said the reliability of Greece's budgetary statistics was a long-standing issue.
"This was the problem before. Everybody here in Brussels knew Greece was not being very honest with its economic figures but nobody did anything about it," he said.
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Fear of contagion
Greece is struggling with its worst economic crisis since joining the euro in 2001.
It has one of the smaller economies in the European Union, but it is being watched closely because of the doubts financial markets have in it.
The stability of the euro may be determined by events on the streets of Athens
Its long-term deficit cutting plan aims to reduce the budget shortfall, currently 12.7%, to less than 3% by 2012, but many people in Brussels and beyond remain sceptical.
There are other bigger economies in the eurozone that face the same deficit problems and the fear of contagion is high.
Prime Minister George Papandreou has urged the public to support his programme of tough austerity measures, which includes increases on fuel duty and a public sector pay freeze.
However, public sector workers are planning a strike next week.
'No way out'
Mario Levis, Professor of Finance at Cass Business School, said it was going to be very challenging for the government to achieve its targets.
"To bring the deficit down in the next three years is extremely difficult. Increasing taxes is not enough. They have to increase productivity," he said.
And he added that more may need to be done to get the public on board.
"I think Greeks will appreciate, if it's fully explained to them, the severity of the situation. There's no way out.
"But the prime minister has said there's widespread tax evasion in the public sector... [and] there are not enough measures being announced yet to cut down on tax evasion."
Assuming that Greece can't cut its deficit; what does that actually mean for the Euro?
How does California compare to Greece?
You know you've screwed up your finances when you are being called in front of a commission that includes Italians.
Quote from: Viking on February 03, 2010, 12:15:21 PM
How does California compare to Greece?
Believe it or not, California isn't that bad off--at least by this sort of analysis. It would be in the bottom half, but toward the middle, of US states. The problem is that California has a constitution that requires a supermajority to raise taxes--which the minority republicans are steadfast against and can effectively veto--a democratic majority that is politically unable to deeply cut spending, and a constitutional requirement to balance its budget.
Solidarity!
QuoteGreeks strike amid debt crisis
European countries are pressuring Greece to step up its efforts to reduce its national debt [Reuters]
Greece has been hit by a fresh wave of strikes as European Union ministers put pressure on the debt-ridden nation to toughen its deficit-reduction plan.
Customs officials and finance ministry employees began a walkout on Tuesday to protest against measures taken by the government in an attempt to pull the country out of its economic crisis.
"The government measures will further cut our salaries, we have already lost 10 per cent of our income in the past two years due to wages freezes," Apostolos Papantonis, treasurer at Greece's customs employees federation, said.
Last week, civil servants walked off the job for 24 hours in protest against the government's plans to freeze wages, gather more taxes and overhaul the pensions system.
Tuesday's action came as European finance ministers meeting in Brussels warned Greece that it would have to prepare tougher budget cuts if its current programme fails to reduce the national deficit from 12.7 per cent to 8.7 per cent this year.
'Not enough'
Anders Borg, Sweden's finance minister, described the situation as "urgent".
"What we have seen so far is not enough. We need more steps when it comes to taxes and ... expenditure, if they [Greece] want to build credibility in the market," he said.
EU countries that use the euro currency have pledged to help Greece if it cannot repay its debts, but want Athens to make big spending cuts first.
There are fears that a Greek default could spark a wider European debt crisis and threaten other governments' ability to borrow money.
Jean-Claude Juncker, Luxembourg's finance minister, said if it is shown that Greece is not on course to meet it deficit-reduction targets then the eurozone would vote on whether tougher action was needed.
But the measures already announced by the Greek government, including higher taxes, increases to the average retirement age and a freeze in public salaries, have already been met with opposition from the public.
Tim Friend, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Brussels, the Belgian capital, said it would be important for EU ministers and Greece to strike a balance over the measures.
"The social dimension of this on the ground in Greece is enormous.
"The EU is very conscious of this and they obviously have to strike a balance between making sure the Greek economy gets back on track, but at the same time not alienating the public to such an extent that the government ... finds itself in the midst of an even deeper political crisis.
"But it's going to be very, very tricky because they're not just talking about reducing this huge deficit ... they're also talking about big structural changes to the whole of the Greek economy," he said.
A series of further strikes are already being planned, with the country's two largest umbrella unions declaring a general strike for next Wednesday, and fuel lorry drivers threatening to strike this week.
Tuesday's strike by customs officials, which will affect imports and exports, could also lead to container pile-ups at ports and border crossings and affect petrol distribution across the country.
Quote from: Savonarola on February 03, 2010, 11:54:56 AM
So if they go into receivership does the country go back to Turkey? :unsure:
Why do you hate Turkey so much? :(
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 16, 2010, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on February 03, 2010, 11:54:56 AM
So if they go into receivership does the country go back to Turkey? :unsure:
Why do you hate Turkey so much? :(
I've borne them a grudge since the White Witch tried to turn my brother against me with promises of Turkish Delight.
Overgrown numbers of state employees ruining a country? Say it isn't so!
Where is all the "capitalism is a dead-end" talk now, ha? :P
Fucking socialists
Quote from: alfred russel on February 03, 2010, 12:44:35 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 03, 2010, 12:15:21 PM
How does California compare to Greece?
Believe it or not, California isn't that bad off--at least by this sort of analysis. It would be in the bottom half, but toward the middle, of US states. The problem is that California has a constitution that requires a supermajority to raise taxes--which the minority republicans are steadfast against and can effectively veto--a democratic majority that is politically unable to deeply cut spending, and a constitutional requirement to balance its budget.
Rubbish, California already has one of the highest tax rates in the country, so that is complete nonsense. If California had simply kept spending at inflation plus population growth over the last decade they would have a large surplus. The problem is that the State exists for the benefit of the state employees, not the people. Lavish pay increases combined with huge defined benefit increases make the gov't too expensive to afford. We now live in a two-class society, those in gov't get everything: absolute job security, extremely high salaries, and humongeous benefits. The rest of society gets to pay for the luxury of the few through taxes. this is a relative new development over the last decade but will end with a lot of strife.
I still have a hard time believe just how lavish my pay and benefits are compared to much of the private sector, and I'm not even an officer. My pay, once adjusted for differences in taxation for the military, is about $82,000 - and that doesn't include the value of all my benefits from pensions to health care and VA home loan benefit (or my $300 dollar a month day care subsidy). I'm probably making more than your average MBA graduate.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 16, 2010, 06:28:29 PM
Rubbish, California already has one of the highest tax rates in the country, so that is complete nonsense. If California had simply kept spending at inflation plus population growth over the last decade they would have a large surplus. The problem is that the State exists for the benefit of the state employees, not the people. Lavish pay increases combined with huge defined benefit increases make the gov't too expensive to afford. We now live in a two-class society, those in gov't get everything: absolute job security, extremely high salaries, and humongeous benefits. The rest of society gets to pay for the luxury of the few through taxes.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
The Greeks are striking because of a pay freeze when their country is on the brink of bankrupcy? My pay was cut 4 times in the past 7 years, and my government's coffers are overflowing, with hundreds of billions in cash and US bonds and stocks.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 16, 2010, 07:20:36 PM
The Greeks are striking because of a pay freeze when their country is on the brink of bankrupcy? My pay was cut 4 times in the past 7 years, and my government's coffers are overflowing, with hundreds of billions in cash and US bonds and stocks.
Monoriu, they are Greeks.
Your people invented "work ethic"; they invented "nude statue". Why are you surprised?
Besides EU troops are unlikely to massacre the strikers and charge their families for the bullets. At least not yet.
Looks like someone bombed the JP Morgan offices in Greece today.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 16, 2010, 07:31:45 PM
Looks like someone bombed the JP Morgan offices in Greece today.
:lol: It would be kind of cool if Greece went in to full blown public employee revolt.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 16, 2010, 07:31:45 PM
Looks like someone bombed the JP Morgan offices in Greece today.
Just like the Greeks to blame someone else for their homegrown problems.
Husband can't keep wife at home? Start a war with Troy.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 16, 2010, 07:20:36 PM
The Greeks are striking because of a pay freeze when their country is on the brink of bankrupcy? My pay was cut 4 times in the past 7 years, and my government's coffers are overflowing, with hundreds of billions in cash and US bonds and stocks.
Yeah, they want Germany to bail them out so they can keep the retirement age at 61, while Germany just raised their retirement age to 67. Needless to say that is going over like a lead baloon in Germany.
Quote from: Scipio on February 16, 2010, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 16, 2010, 07:31:45 PM
Looks like someone bombed the JP Morgan offices in Greece today.
Just like the Greeks to blame someone else for their homegrown problems.
Husband can't keep wife at home? Start a war with Troy.
Love your analysis. :lol:
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 16, 2010, 07:58:41 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 16, 2010, 07:20:36 PM
The Greeks are striking because of a pay freeze when their country is on the brink of bankrupcy? My pay was cut 4 times in the past 7 years, and my government's coffers are overflowing, with hundreds of billions in cash and US bonds and stocks.
Yeah, they want Germany to bail them out so they can keep the retirement age at 61, while Germany just raised their retirement age to 67. Needless to say that is going over like a lead baloon in Germany.
Given that Germany bailed them out of Third World status when they let them join the EU and the Euro, I'm not surprised that the Greeks feel that they have the right to be lazy and have other pick up the tab.
And the saga continues:
QuoteClashes erupt at Greek strike march
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Clashes erupted after a group of youths attempted to storm a building, police said [AFP]
Greek police have fired tear gas at a group of protesters at an anti-government march in Athens after they attempted to storm a university building.
The clashes occurred on Wednesday on the sidelines of a demonstration in the capital involving at least 20,000 people protesting government plans to cut spending in an effort to curb the nation's debt crisis.
"A group of 50 youths tried to storm the university building and riot police fired teargas to stop them," a police official told the Reuters news agency.
They reportedly threw stones and firebombs at pursuing police, and a number of shops in the area were vandalised.
Services crippled
The demonstrations came amid a nationwide strike called by public and private sector unions in anger over measures that will see public wages frozen, the retirement age increased and a hike in taxes.
"Today, Europe's eyes are turned on us, today we are demonstrating for hope and future ... to cancel the measures," Yannis Panagopoulos, head of the private sector union GSEE, told the rally.
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Tens of thousands of workers took to the streets to protest government plans [AFP]
Wednesday's action shut down public services and saw flights and public transport grind to a halt.
A second protest involving around 7,000 people was also staged in Thessaloniki, Greece's second city, police said.
Barnaby Phillips, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Athens, said the protests saw a "fairly impressive turnout".
"What is most important here is determining what proportion of the population will stick by the government as it tries to implement a very austere programme to deal with the economic crisis here, or whether a significant body of the population is turning away from the governmentt and will resist it.
"That is still an open question. I think this economic crisis will drag on for months," he said.
The action is the first joint strike in Greece since the Socialist government won elections last October.
Michalis Korileos, a 36-year-old civil servant, told the AP news agency he was striking "because others stole the money and we are the ones who are going to pay".
"They are cutting my allowances and I have two children to raise, it is difficult."
The strike takes place during a visit by EU officials assessing whether Greece is on track to cut its double-digit deficit.
European unrest
The action comes as fears over wages and job security grows among European workers, sparking protests in a number of other countries in the past week.
In France on Wednesday air traffic controllers continued to strike after action began on Tuesday, causing massive delays and cancellations at Paris' two main airports.
The action was called to protest planned reforms that workers fear will lead to losses of jobs and civil servant benefits.
It came as Lufthansa pilots ended a strike in Germany and British Airways cabin crews voted to launch one of their own.
Spanish workers unhappy about plans to raise the retirement age marched on Tuesday but the main protest in Madrid seemed relatively small, in a sign that the country's unions may be weakening.
Portugal's second largest union warned on Monday it would call more strikes if the government extended a public sector wage freeze beyond this year.
Transportation labour unions in the Czech Republic decided on Tuesday to also hold a strike in the capital Prague next Monday in protest against a new value-added tax on their workers' benefits.
The walkouts are the latest signs of a broader unease about jobs and benefits, and what the future holds for a continent struggling to stay competitive on a global scale.
Unemployment in the 16-nation eurozone is at 10 per cent, with Spain topping the jobless rate at 19 per cent.
Has any government entity ever been effective at putting a lid on public union excesses?
If I was Germany, I would invade again.
Quote
"That is still an open question. I think this economic crisis will drag on for months," he said.
Wow. This guy's an optimist.
Quote
Michalis Korileos, a 36-year-old civil servant, told the AP news agency he was striking "because others stole the money and we are the ones who are going to pay".
"They are cutting my allowances and I have two children to raise, it is difficult."
There's the problem right there. He's got a complete misconception about what's happened. No wonder they feel justified in striking. Hey, Michalis, YOU caused it.
What is it about Mediterranean men in their mid-30s still bitching about their allowance? STFU and go to your room.
I hope I get my package from my friend Demetrios. I want my greek food package. :mad:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 24, 2010, 02:49:13 PM
There's the problem right there. He's got a complete misconception about what's happened. No wonder they feel justified in striking. Hey, Michalis, YOU caused it.
Of course. Public service union members have an overdevelopped opinion of their usefulness and importance.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 24, 2010, 02:49:13 PM
Quote
Michalis Korileos, a 36-year-old civil servant, told the AP news agency he was striking "because others stole the money and we are the ones who are going to pay".
"They are cutting my allowances and I have two children to raise, it is difficult."
There's the problem right there. He's got a complete misconception about what's happened. No wonder they feel justified in striking. Hey, Michalis, YOU caused it.
Actually he is right. Corruption is at the heart of the problem. The amount of public workers is a symptom, not the cause.
Quote from: Iormlund on February 24, 2010, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 24, 2010, 02:49:13 PM
Quote
Michalis Korileos, a 36-year-old civil servant, told the AP news agency he was striking "because others stole the money and we are the ones who are going to pay".
"They are cutting my allowances and I have two children to raise, it is difficult."
There's the problem right there. He's got a complete misconception about what's happened. No wonder they feel justified in striking. Hey, Michalis, YOU caused it.
Actually he is right. Corruption is at the heart of the problem. The amount of public workers is a symptom, not the cause.
Society must clip its toenails. I will not weep for the clippings when we throw them away.
Quote from: The Brain on February 24, 2010, 03:35:18 PM
Society must clip its toenails. I will not weep for the clippings when we throw them away.
Ridic.