My Timmy moment for the month.
Quote
Time.com
By AMY SULLIVAN / WASHINGTON Amy Sullivan / Washington – Tue Dec 15, 3:10 am ET
If it's December, then there must be frost in the air, gingerbread in the oven, and ... right on time, Bill O'Reilly and the other defenders of Christmas bemoaning the prevalence of "Happy Holidays" - rather than "Merry Christmas" - greetings.
There's a war on Christmas, O'Reilly recently reminded viewers, driven by those who "loathe the baby Jesus." This season, a holiday-dÉcor company is marketing the CHRIST-mas Tree, a bushy artificial tree with a giant cross where the trunk should be. And the Colorado-based Focus on the Family is continuing its Stand for Christmas campaign to highlight the offenses of Christmas-denying retailers. The campaign was launched, according to its website, because "citizens across the nation were growing dissatisfied with the tendency of corporations to omit references to Christmas from holiday promotions." (See TIME's photoessay "Have a Very Ridiculous Christmas.")
But to a growing group of Christians, this focus on the commercial aspect of Christmas is itself the greatest threat to one of Christianity's holiest days. "It's the shopping, the going into debt, the worrying that if I don't spend enough money, someone will think I don't love them," says Portland pastor Rick McKinley. "Christians get all bent out of shape over the fact that someone didn't say 'Merry Christmas' when I walked into the store. But why are we expecting the store to tell our story? That's just ridiculous."
McKinley is one of the leaders of an effort to do away with the frenzied activity and extravagant gift-giving of a commercial Christmas. Through a savvy viral video and marketing effort, the so-called Advent Conspiracy movement has exploded. Hundreds of churches on four continents and in at least 17 countries have signed up to participate. The Advent Conspiracy video has been viewed more than a million times on YouTube and the movement boasts nearly 45,000 fans on Facebook. Baseball superstar Albert Pujols is a supporter - he spoke at a church event in St. Louis to endorse the effort. (See TIME's video "Bethlehem's Complicated Christmas.")
In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.
The idea for their own war on Christmas came to McKinley four years ago, when he was sitting around with some of his pastor friends and they realized they were all dreading Christmas. "None of us like Christmas," he says, adding, "That's sort of bad if you're a pastor." Instead of helping their congregations focus on the season of Advent and prepare to celebrate the birth of Christ, the pastors found themselves competing with a secular consumerism that made December the hardest time to make their message heard.
So McKinley and his friends decided to try a radical experiment. They urged congregants to spend less on presents for friends and family, and to consider donating some of the money they saved as a result. At first, church members weren't quite sure how to react. "Some people were terrified," remembers McKinley. "They said, 'My gosh, you're ruining Christmas. What do we tell our kids?'" The pastors had to reassure people that they weren't advocating a Grinchy no-gifts kind of Christmas, but rather one in which people spent a little less and thought a little more, expressing their love through something more meaningful than a gift card. Once church members adjusted to this new conception of Christmas, they found that they loved it. Many, in fact, seemed relieved to be given permission to slow down and buy less. (Read "A Brief History of 'The War on Christmas'")
In many ways, the Advent Conspiracy movement has appropriated some of the traditional arguments of the conservative Christians who see themselves as defenders of Christmas. A popular rallying cry of the foot soldiers in the war on Christmas is, "Jesus is the reason for the season." Often, however, it seems that being able to score a half-price Nintendo DSi and a "Merry Christmas" from the checkout clerk is the real prize. The Religious Right has spent decades casting secular culture as the enemy. And yet instead of critiquing the values of the consumer marketplace, many conservative Christians have embraced it as the battleground they seek to reclaim.
A movement like the Advent Conspiracy is countercultural on two fronts - not just fighting the secular idea that Christmas is a month-long shopping and decorating ritual, but the powerful conservative notion that the holiday requires acknowledgement from the nation's retailers to be truly meaningful. It's not easy, says one youth pastor whose church is part of the Advent Conspiracy. "When you start jacking with people's idea of what Christmas is and you start to go against this $450 billion machine of materialism and consumerism, it really messes with people," he explains. "It takes a lot of patience to say there's a different way - Christmas doesn't have to be like this."
I remember trying to explain to someone what the "X" meant in Xmas...they didn't get it and thought I was lying...
Mysterious Valmy post disappears...
I think it is an unheard-of precedent to see a popular religious holiday taken over by non-believers, as new customs replace the old ones.
Christians invented the winter solstice first, when St. Claus died on the Christmas tree for our sins.
Quote from: PDH on December 16, 2009, 11:08:37 AM
Mysterious Valmy post disappears...
Decided I didn't like it. The post that is.
Valmy is the new mongers.
Quote from: katmai on December 16, 2009, 11:12:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2009, 11:12:09 AM
Quote from: PDH on December 16, 2009, 11:08:37 AM
Mysterious Valmy post disappears...
Decided I didn't like it. The post that is.
oooh what did it say?
It was mainly in the style of an early 1980s free form rap mixed with iambic pentameter. I didn't get the message, but it sounded good.
Quote from: katmai on December 16, 2009, 11:12:56 AM
oooh what did it say?
Just about how some Christians hate fun and want to ruin it for the rest of us. I thought it was rather obvious and didn't add anything to the discussion.
Oldie but goldie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fplj61Y5QME
I have great respect for these Advent guys. Much more so than the whining about saying "Merry Christmas" assholes. The Advent Christians are making a compelling case for what the holiday means to them and Christians in general - or at least what it should mean (the celebration of the birth of the savior), as opposed to what it does mean (buy lots of crap! Now!), or what the O'Reilly assholes want it to mean (America is about OUR god, not yours!).
Quote from: Berkut on December 16, 2009, 11:16:39 AM
I have great respect for these Advent guys. Much more so than the whining about saying "Merry Christmas" assholes. The Advent Christians are making a compelling case for what the holiday means to them and Christians in general - or at least what it should mean (the celebration of the birth of the savior), as opposed to what it does mean (buy lots of crap! Now!), or what the O'Reilly assholes want it to mean (America is about OUR god, not yours!).
:thumbsup:
Similar feelings hence why I posted it.
Quote from: Berkut on December 16, 2009, 11:16:39 AM
...or what the O'Reilly assholes want it to mean (America is about OUR god, not yours!).
Admit it, you hate Baby Jesus.
Quote from: PDH on December 16, 2009, 11:19:44 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 16, 2009, 11:16:39 AM
...or what the O'Reilly assholes want it to mean (America is about OUR god, not yours!).
Admit it, you hate Baby Jesus.
Well duh.
i like buying lots of crap
Quote from: Berkut on December 16, 2009, 11:16:39 AM
I have great respect for these Advent guys. Much more so than the whining about saying "Merry Christmas" assholes. The Advent Christians are making a compelling case for what the holiday means to them and Christians in general - or at least what it should mean (the celebration of the birth of the savior), as opposed to what it does mean (buy lots of crap! Now!), or what the O'Reilly assholes want it to mean (America is about OUR god, not yours!).
Quite. I am a Christian and I don't give a flying fuck about Happy Holidays or whateveer. The thing that bugs me, and I bet even non-Christians is this notion that we have to spend a bitchload of money or else we are perceived as cheap.
For years I'd have rather have given to Toys for Tots or something instead of buying crap for people that don't really need it.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 16, 2009, 01:47:45 PM
Quite. I am a Christian and I don't give a flying fuck about Happy Holidays or whateveer. The thing that bugs me, and I bet even non-Christians is this notion that we have to spend a bitchload of money or else we are perceived as cheap.
For years I'd have rather have given to Toys for Tots or something instead of buying crap for people that don't really need it.
Nothing wrong with being seen as a miser. Charities leave you alone.
Eh, fair enough. I am always amazed at the "War on christmas" bunch, but this is reasonable.
Side note: What do you guys say when friends and family ask what you want, but you don't need anything?
Assume we're talking about family members who'd find asking them to donate to a charity to be offensive.
Thank God we celebrate Jul and not Kristusmäss in Sweden.
Quote from: Faeelin on December 16, 2009, 01:57:07 PM
Side note: What do you guys say when friends and family ask what you want, but you don't need anything?
"I don't need anything."
Quote from: The Brain on December 16, 2009, 02:12:31 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on December 16, 2009, 01:57:07 PM
Side note: What do you guys say when friends and family ask what you want, but you don't need anything?
"I don't need anything."
Just give me scratch tickets and chaw.
Speaking of commercialism I just finished my Christmas shopping. :yeah:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 16, 2009, 02:51:42 PM
Speaking of commercialism I just finished my Christmas shopping. :yeah:
You're just a tool of commercialism! ;)
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 16, 2009, 01:47:45 PM
For years I'd have rather have given to Toys for Tots or something instead of buying crap for people that don't really need it.
Our department gave to Toys for Tots this year instead of individual gifts, which I loved for several reasons:
a) I hate getting chintzy shit from co-workers I have to pretend I like;
b) I could "conveniently forget" to make a donation and nobody's feelings were hurt. :cool:
Now if we instead gave to Toys for Tits... now THAT is a program I can get behind. :yeah:
As a Christian, I don't want people to lose sight of the true meaning of the holiday, but as a capitalist, I don't think that anything can ever become over-commercialized.
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2009, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 16, 2009, 11:12:56 AM
oooh what did it say?
Just about how some Christians hate fun and want to ruin it for the rest of us. I thought it was rather obvious and didn't add anything to the discussion.
You're not a Christian, hippie.
Quote from: Caliga on December 16, 2009, 03:19:07 PM
Now if we instead gave to Toys for Tits... now THAT is a program I can get behind. :yeah:
Don't you mean, in -front- of? :P
QuoteA curse on these smug types who buy you a goat in Africa for Christmas
By Virginia Ironside
Last updated at 7:38 AM on 16th December 2009
Virginia Ironside
Miserly? Virginia Ironside objects to pseudo present-giving
Dear all, read the note in my inbox.
'Apologies for the group email, but I've decided to give to charity the money I would normally spend on your Christmas cards.
'This year, I am funding a woman's refuge in Scotland. I hope you will agree that your card money has gone to a good cause. Happy Christmas everyone!'
My blood began to simmer. And it reached boiling point when I remembered that last year someone had the cheek to send me a card informing me that my Christmas 'gift' was a goat, sent - without so much as a by-my-leave - to some village in Africa.
Now, I know there are some who will argue I am being a miserly misery-guts. In our age of excess, surely a charitable donation has to be better than spending lots of money on gifts that are destined to be stuffed in the back of a cupboard after a couple of days.
We're also in a recession and, in this season of limited financial goodwill, charities need our help more than ever. Is there a gesture more selfless than giving to a needy cause? And, of course, I would agree - if you are the person making a donation to an appeal of your own choosing.
The problem is that although the charity donation present may seem like a gift, it's not really a gift at all. It's as if the giver, instead of contributing herself directly to a charity (which is, of course, entirely reasonable, generous and kindly), involves an unwitting middleman in the trans-action - and expects gratitude for it.
Recently, I gave a talk at a very enjoyable event put on by a Jewish organisation. I was happy to do it for nothing. But then, as a 'token of our appreciation', I was handed a certificate that informed me that 'Trees had been planted in Israel in the name of Virginia Ironside'.
It was hard to know whether to laugh or cry. Maybe I don't believe that trees being planted anywhere is a good idea. Maybe I'd prefer them planted somewhere else. Maybe, before whizzing them off to Israel, it would have been polite to let me have a peep at them to decide whether I might like one or two for my own garden.
I couldn't help feeling angry that I was expected, in some way, to feel grateful for a gift that, in the end, benefited only donor and recipient.
And it's the same with these charitable gifts. It's one thing to buy a gift from an Oxfam catalogue and give it to a friend as a Christmas present. That's entirely reasonable.
But to give directly to a charity of your own choice, and then expect to be thanked for it, is, I say, ultimately self-serving.
Kenya
Imposition: Last year, Virginia's gift was a goat, sent to a village in Africa
One of the reasons I dislike this trend is that charities are not universally wonderful and good and noble - or, rather, they usually are wonderful and good and noble but only in the eyes of those who support them.
Charitable giving is a tremendously political - and fraught - arena. A charity that is one person's good cause will be another's pet hate.
You might not agree, but I would be livid, say, if any money destined for even a box of hankies for me had been diverted to an antiabortion charity.
I would also be furious if any of the money were given to medical research (a particular personal bug-bear of mine, not shared, I know, by most right-thinking people).
I wouldn't be too happy about money being given to donkey sanctuaries, either, and feel the Lifeboat people already have enough to be getting on with. In other words, we don't agree about charities, by any means.
Indeed, I was rather miffed about the Women's Aid charity to which my friend was donating my Christmas card money. Not because I have anything against Women's Aid, but because I would prefer to donate to all victims of domestic violence, not just women.
The other reason I object to this kind of pseudo present-giving is that the person who gets the warm glow is the giver, not the recipient of her 'present'.
World Xmas decoration
Political: A charity that is one person's good cause will be another's pet hate
It is she who writes out the cheque and she who gets the ingratiating letters of thanks - not only from the charity, but also from us metarecipients as well, congratulating her on her appeal to our selflessness.
This charitable giving is imposed on us everywhere. I am constantly being told that money has been added to my bill - by theatre companies, museums, restaurants - in aid of some charity, money that I can only remove by making a fuss.
Even Waitrose gives me a green button every time I shop there, to put into a slot in aid of one or other charity that Waitrose (not me) has chosen, presumably to give me the illusion that I am a generous person.
A gift to a charity like this is so wretchedly patronising, too. It's saying, in effect: 'I'm sure you would prefer a box of handmade chocolates, but I am appealing to your better nature and making an unselfish decision on your behalf.'
Of course, the worst problem about these gifts is that they tell you the giver doesn't give a jot about the person they're giving to, but only, ultimately, about themselves and the charity they're enriching.
You can give goats to any old person. You don't have to stagger round the shops finding out exactly what would give your friends delight. I think a present should be tailor-made for an individual. That way, we know that the giver cares.
Anyway, for heaven's sake, it's not as if the rest of us don't give money to charity! (Hope And Homes For Children, since you ask.) But we do it privately, not wishing to trumpet our generosity to the world.
Giving to charity via friends is actually a form of advertising your own good nature. And anyway, the truth is that lots of presents do end up as charitable gifts.
My local Age Concern bulges in January with presents I've recently received with gratitude, but which I find unusable.
That way, I get the pleasure of opening a well-intentioned parcel from a friend, which is very nice and gives me a warm feeling, whatever it is, and also the pleasure, if I wish, of handing the contents on to a charity. Myself.
There is nothing wrong with asking someone what they want for Christmas and if the answer is goats to Africa, then goats it shall be. Nor is there anything wrong with giving tiny tokens to people instead of the usual overblown gifts.
But don't make your friends feel like dumb tools in a charitable process that is, in the end, designed just to make you feel good.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1236247/VIRGINIA-IRONSIDE-A-curse-smug-types-buy-goat-Africa-Christmas.html#ixzz0ZtmQ6hK9
Maybe she should shut the fuck up and take credit for some poor ass family getting a fucking goat. Bitch.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 16, 2009, 09:48:18 PM
Maybe she should shut the fuck up and take credit for some poor ass family getting a fucking goat. Bitch.
Yeah. Hooray for aggravating desertification in Africa.
You're such a retard.
Quote from: dps on December 16, 2009, 05:14:00 PM
As a Christian, I don't want people to lose sight of the true meaning of the holiday, but as a capitalist, I don't think that anything can ever become over-commercialized.
Which "true meaning"? Given there are several "true meanings" of this time of year, I'm interested in what is your version of "true". I'm fairly sure mine will be different. :)
Not enough "quotation marks" Meri. Your post would be better if there were more "quotation marks." The more "quotation marks" the better, I always say.
Agree with Notorious that the author of Butt's article is a crank.
't would of course be ever so handy if people realised that making merry with friends and family, or the community at large, to celebrate the inevitable victory of life over death and darkness is the meaning of this holy day. Wether it's called christmas, solstice, yule or sol invictus-day.
The Moral Maze (:blush:) did an episode on Christmas recently and I found the most impressive guy was a Christian who was saying much the same as these groups.
Quote from: Neil on December 16, 2009, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 16, 2009, 09:48:18 PM
Maybe she should shut the fuck up and take credit for some poor ass family getting a fucking goat. Bitch.
Yeah. Hooray for aggravating desertification in Africa.
You're such a retard.
Goat in a can then. They get meat and a handy re-usable storage receptacle.
Quote from: Faeelin on December 16, 2009, 01:57:07 PM
Eh, fair enough. I am always amazed at the "War on christmas" bunch, but this is reasonable.
Side note: What do you guys say when friends and family ask what you want, but you don't need anything?
Assume we're talking about family members who'd find asking them to donate to a charity to be offensive.
Thank you, but I don't really need anything.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 16, 2009, 10:47:18 PM
Not enough "quotation marks" Meri. Your post would be better if there were more "quotation marks." The more "quotation marks" the better, I always say.
Agree with Notorious that the author of Butt's article is a crank.
Cut me some slack. I was coming off my 3rd 12-hour work day in a row. I thought it was impressive I managed a somewhat coherent post at all. :smarty:
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2009, 08:40:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 16, 2009, 10:47:18 PM
Not enough "quotation marks" Meri. Your post would be better if there were more "quotation marks." The more "quotation marks" the better, I always say.
Agree with Notorious that the author of Butt's article is a crank.
Cut me some slack. I was coming off my 3rd 12-hour work day in a row. I thought it was impressive I managed a somewhat coherent post at all. :smarty:
It wasn't really all that "coherent".
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2009, 08:43:13 AM
It wasn't really all that "coherent".
:weep:
I tried.
I'm just always amused at people saying things like that. While yes, there is a true meaning of Christmas, there are still quite a few others meanings to this season. Every time I hear someone grumble about how the true meaning of the season is lost, I can't help but be annoyed.
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2009, 08:45:01 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2009, 08:43:13 AM
It wasn't really all that "coherent".
:weep:
I tried.
I'm just always amused at people saying things like that. While yes, there is a true meaning of Christmas, there are still quite a few others meanings to this season. Every time I hear someone grumble about how the true meaning of the season is lost, I can't help but be annoyed.
Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
:P
Quote from: merithyn on December 16, 2009, 10:37:13 PM
Quote from: dps on December 16, 2009, 05:14:00 PM
As a Christian, I don't want people to lose sight of the true meaning of the holiday, but as a capitalist, I don't think that anything can ever become over-commercialized.
Which "true meaning"? Given there are several "true meanings" of this time of year, I'm interested in what is your version of "true". I'm fairly sure mine will be different. :)
Watch
A Charlie Brown Christmas. Linus will explain it. ;)