Ok, so I usually get a bunch of cash from people for Christmas every year (typically my parents, my father in law, and a couple of other relatives). I've used a portion of my expected cash to chip in and buy a generator with Princesca, and am holding around $500 in reserve for a Glock 19. That will likely leave about $200, which I want to put into my PC, which I built in April 2007.
current specs:
Intel Core Duo @ 2.13 Ghz
ASUS Commando LGA 775 board
4 Gb RAM
Geforce 9600 GT 1Gb RAM
Vista 64 bit
I guess what I'm not sure about is whether the money is better spent upgrading the CPU to a Quad core (can't do a Core i5/7 in this mobo due to the socket), upgrading the video card, upgrading the OS to Win 7, or doubling the RAM. One thing about the RAM is I currently have 4 1 Gb modules, and 4 slots, so I'd have to trash all of my current RAM to do an upgrade.
Thoughts?
Post pics of the Glock when you get it.
We also need to go shooting :)
Quote from: Caliga on December 01, 2009, 12:48:18 PM
I guess what I'm not sure about is whether the money is better spent upgrading the CPU to a Quad core (can't do a Core i5/7 in this mobo due to the socket), upgrading the video card, upgrading the OS to Win 7, or doubling the RAM. One thing about the RAM is I currently have 4 1 Gb modules, and 4 slots, so I'd have to trash all of my current RAM to do an upgrade.
Thoughts?
Video card all the way.
GTX 260, or anything else above that when comes boxing day.
Quote from: derspiess on December 01, 2009, 12:58:24 PM
Post pics of the Glock when you get it.
We also need to go shooting :)
Will you: answer your cell this time? :P
Quote from: viper37 on December 01, 2009, 01:12:45 PM
Video card all the way.
GTX 260, or anything else above that when comes boxing day.
You don't think the CPU is too much of a bottleneck? If you trust that Windows Experience Index thingy, it's the lowest rated system component I have (5.0).
That CPU is fine, anything dual core can run most new games still. Not necessarily at their best but they run.
But- is upgrading cpus still as much of a bitch as it used to be or have things improved? I hear that motherboards tend to be compatible with more processers these days.
Well, I've flashed my board BIOS to the point where it can accept all quad core models IIRC. It's not physically difficult to get a CPU out of a 775 socket and put a new one in there, if that's what you mean. The biggest pain might be getting the fan+heatsink off depending on how cleanly the legs socketed into the board.
I doubt more RAM is going to help once you already have 4 GB.
Quote from: DGuller on December 01, 2009, 02:45:40 PM
I doubt more RAM is going to help once you already have 4 GB.
Yeah, just threw it out there as an option but not one I am seriously considering.
Quote from: Caliga on December 01, 2009, 01:37:32 PM
Well, I've flashed my board BIOS to the point where it can accept all quad core models IIRC. It's not physically difficult to get a CPU out of a 775 socket and put a new one in there, if that's what you mean. The biggest pain might be getting the fan+heatsink off depending on how cleanly the legs socketed into the board.
I've not built a computer for 5 or 6 years (hence my really really wanting a new one!), back then I remember it being very hard to buy a motherboard and processor and you had to match them up very well and set jumpers and all sorts. Just wondering if the situation is the same as I'm going to be getting a new computer at some point in the first half of next year (as soon as I'm finished uni or otherwise back in the UK)
It's been a very long time since I've had to set jumpers on a board in order to get a CPU to work. That type of thing is all handled through/by the BIOS now.
Quote from: Caliga on December 01, 2009, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 01, 2009, 12:58:24 PM
Post pics of the Glock when you get it.
We also need to go shooting :)
Will you: answer your cell this time? :P
:lol: Yeah. And you can track my whereabouts on Latitude.
Cal: Stalker
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 01, 2009, 06:10:43 PM
Cal: Stalker
I get to stalk him, too. And Brazen :contract:
Cal never moves from within 50 feet of the BP.
:mad:
I'd go for the OS or the video card, myself. With as much RAM as you have, you're not going to get much of an upgrade for less than $200.
Quote from: Caliga on December 01, 2009, 01:31:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 01, 2009, 01:12:45 PM
Video card all the way.
GTX 260, or anything else above that when comes boxing day.
You don't think the CPU is too much of a bottleneck? If you trust that Windows Experience Index thingy, it's the lowest rated system component I have (5.0).
The only CPU bottleneck a quad-core upgrade would address in this case is CPU loading. Since every consumer Windows app I've seen so far is single-threaded you should only see a benefit if you try to run more than one CPU-monopolizing process at a time. If you were, say running two EVE clients at once going from dual to quad would make a moderate difference. If you only run one thing at a time you probably won't see a difference.
The reason for that is, other than the core count, clock frequency, and L2 cache size, there really isn't any difference between the processors in the Core microarchitecture. They have the same memory controllers, the same SSE and other computational units, the same L1 cache, etc. That's how Intel rolls with their microarchitectures; moving around within it gives marginal gains for most applications.
:yes: Intel tried to stay on top by adding quickly to SSE, but they seem to have temporarily plateau'd at SSE3, which I don't mind, because that makes it so I can run my GameCube emulation on my fairly wimpy laptop.
Quote from: derspiess on December 01, 2009, 06:14:05 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 01, 2009, 06:10:43 PM
Cal: Stalker
I get to stalk him, too. And Brazen :contract:
derspicy is afraid I'm gonna nab his sunglasses. :(
Quote from: derspiess on December 01, 2009, 06:14:05 PM
I get to stalk him, too. And Brazen :contract:
Actually, I never friended her on Latitude, come to think of it. :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2009, 06:34:24 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 01, 2009, 06:14:05 PM
I get to stalk him, too. And Brazen :contract:
Actually, I never friended her on Latitude, come to think of it. :huh:
Or me.
You: fail at joining the Languish Stalker Club. :contract:
Well I had no idea you had an account dude. :huh:
I just sent a request to your AOL account, which is the only email addy I have for ya.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 02, 2009, 08:35:19 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2009, 06:34:24 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 01, 2009, 06:14:05 PM
I get to stalk him, too. And Brazen :contract:
Actually, I never friended her on Latitude, come to think of it. :huh:
Or me.
You: fail at joining the Languish Stalker Club. :contract:
Who else is in there? I only have Brazen & Cal in my Latitude.
<_<
It amuses me how folks are getting indigant about not being Latituded when we didn't even know they had the proper hardware/interest in the first place. :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2009, 02:40:55 PM
It amuses me how folks are getting indigant about not being Latituded when we didn't even know they had the proper hardware/interest in the first place. :lol:
how dumb can you be cal?
Seems you need to go read the original latitude thread again.
Quote from: Caliga on December 01, 2009, 03:08:46 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 01, 2009, 02:45:40 PM
I doubt more RAM is going to help once you already have 4 GB.
Yeah, just threw it out there as an option but not one I am seriously considering.
I disagree. :)
Quote from: katmai on December 02, 2009, 03:02:54 PM
how dumb can you be cal?
Seems you need to go read the original latitude thread again.
Unlike you I let sleeping threads lie. ^_^
Quote from: derspiess on December 02, 2009, 12:36:15 PM
Who else is in there? I only have Brazen & Cal in my Latitude.
Besides them, me. Brazen's got my gmail address and Cal should have it sitting in his inbox now. :)
Then if anyone wants to add me, PM me with your address :)
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 02, 2009, 05:05:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 02, 2009, 12:36:15 PM
Who else is in there? I only have Brazen & Cal in my Latitude.
Besides them, me. Brazen's got my gmail address and Cal should have it sitting in his inbox now. :)
I think you sent me yours as well.
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2009, 03:04:54 PM
I disagree. :)
So you think going from 4 Gb to 8 Gb will make a huge difference?
I believe it too.
Hm, that will cost right around $200, it looks like, for 4 2 Gb DIMMS.
You don't want to invest in memory, as it will have marginal utility with the CPU and, with that board, will be obsolescent stuff you cannot take with you when you upgrade.
I'd go for a great monitor (prices are getting pretty sweet on them right now) or the OS upgrade.
Yeah, I was just looking at monitor prices this morning because Princesca's is starting to fail, and was surprised at how low they've gotten. I already have a decent 22" 2ms LCD though and am satisfied with it, so probably not gonna go that route in the near future.
Face it Cal, the situation is pretty much the same as it was the last time you asked for advice on a computer - you have a decent rig with no real obvious need for an upgrade. It's not like the old days where you almost ahd to buy a new system every 2-3 years.
Quote from: Caliga on December 03, 2009, 06:49:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2009, 03:04:54 PM
I disagree. :)
So you think going from 4 Gb to 8 Gb will make a huge difference?
I dunno - all I know is that I noticed a difference going from 2 GB to 10 GB. :)
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2009, 11:51:34 AM
Face it Cal, the situation is pretty much the same as it was the last time you asked for advice on a computer - you have a decent rig with no real obvious need for an upgrade. It's not like the old days where you almost ahd to buy a new system every 2-3 years.
The issue isn't need, it's want. I budget fun money for myself and have nothing else I want. The amount I may spend could increase in the near future though, as a friend of ours is willing to sell us her Glock 19 and I assume it'll be way cheaper than what we were planning on spending on it.
Quote from: Caliga on December 01, 2009, 01:31:37 PM
You don't think the CPU is too much of a bottleneck? If you trust that Windows Experience Index thingy, it's the lowest rated system component I have (5.0).
Don't worry too much about that.
First of all, the scale tops at 5.9.
Second, it's not that useful for games.
Third, a new graphic card will provide better images, better resolution, and better speed in game.
No matter wich CPU you use.
For some modern games, you may not be able to play the highest resolutions because of your CPU, but you'll still play faster than before, and at better resolution.
And having more than 4gb of RAM is nice, as it speeds up Windows boot&shutdown, if you have a 64bit Windows, but since most games are not 64bit, you can't really use the RAM.
Empire Total War was modified to allow the use of more than 4gb of RAM, but aside that, there's not much improvement to be made.
Quote from: Caliga on December 03, 2009, 11:54:05 AM
as a friend of ours is willing to sell us her Glock 19 and I assume it'll be way cheaper than what we were planning on spending on it.
You could forget about the Glock and invest more in the computer :P
Nein. With a computer, I can only shoot virtual people. :(
Quote from: Caliga on December 03, 2009, 12:13:21 PM
Nein. With a computer, I can only shoot virtual people. :(
With a Glock, you won't actually
hit anyone. :P
Don't mind me. I am to H&K what Beeb is to Mac. ;)
Sorry, not spending $800 on a handgun. -_-
Quote from: Caliga on December 03, 2009, 12:27:57 PM
Sorry, not spending $800 on a handgun. -_-
But what a freakin' awesome handgun it would be. :P
A gun is only as awesome as its wielder. In my case, that means any gun is amazingly awesome. :smoke:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 03, 2009, 12:21:14 PM
With a Glock, you won't actually hit anyone. :P
<_<
Anyway, mine holds 17 rounds, so I'm bound to hit something :)
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2009, 01:29:00 PM
<_<
Anyway, mine holds 17 rounds, so I'm bound to hit something :)
That's a common prejudice levied against the Glock. Not sure why, as I had no problems with accuracy the one time I fired a Glock.
Quote from: Caliga on December 03, 2009, 01:31:10 PM
That's a common prejudice levied against the Glock. Not sure why, as I had no problems with accuracy the one time I fired a Glock.
I think it's because Glocks are (or at least were) a favorite of gangstas/thugs, who are not known for their marksmanship.
My 17 is probably more accurate than I am, and although it's only 9mm, the +P+ self-defense ammo (which the Glock is designed to handle) should provide plenty of stopping power :)
The wife loves shooting it, and tends to be more accurate with it than I am.
*ahem* I started a thread just for this topic in the main forum. :contract:
Quote from: Caliga on December 03, 2009, 02:26:09 PM
*ahem* I started a thread just for this topic in the main forum. :contract:
This is languish.. watcha expect? :P
V
:lol: I just figured spiess hadn't noticed the new thread yet.
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2009, 12:03:28 PM
And having more than 4gb of RAM is nice, as it speeds up Windows boot&shutdown, if you have a 64bit Windows, but since most games are not 64bit, you can't really use the RAM.
Empire Total War was modified to allow the use of more than 4gb of RAM, but aside that, there's not much improvement to be made.
Only assuming, as I did earlier, that Cal is not planning on doing anything in the background while playing games or running multiple instances at once. EVE and Firefox, for instance, can gobble RAM in a hurry. :P
Quote from: Caliga on December 04, 2009, 07:54:43 AM
:lol: I just figured spiess hadn't noticed the new thread yet.
We should have a gun subforum to prevent further confusion :contract:
Marti would love that. :)
So I had done some review reading and was going to pull the trigger on an HD 5850, till I found out that they are now selling for like $80 over MSRP, because Nvidia couldn't get their fucking act together to get Fermi out for Christmas... so the current HD 5800/5900 line has no real competition and card supply has consequently been too low to keep up with demand--the Geforce 200 line seems to be inferior in every way to the comparable HD 5700-5900 lines.
I suspect it might be better to wait for Fermi to hit the streets... unless it's also a disaster, that oughta push prices down on the ATI cards.
Buying an ATI card is always a mistake.
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 28, 2010, 12:51:54 PM
Buying an ATI card is always a mistake.
I think it's a bit shortsighted to assume the playing field permanently remains static. Every time I do a PC upgrade I always check ATI vs. Nvidia, AMD vs. Intel, etc. That's why I have done an AMD build, for example, though my last 4 have been Intel. The AMD build was quite a good system at the time.
ATI's problem will remain the same as long as their driver building team sucks and/or game dev don't bother to optimize for it.
If you're referring to the Arkham Asylum AA debacle, IIRC that was some sort of closed-door sweetheart deal between nvidia and the Arkham Asylum development house (forget which).
I wasn't. It comes from my experience.
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 28, 2010, 01:36:37 PM
I wasn't. It comes from my experience.
Your experience over, say, the last few months (yes I do know what you do for a living)? Like I said earlier I'm not concerned about five years ago. :contract:
I did have an ATI card in the past (it might have even been with the AMD CPU build) and I don't remember having tons of issues with it.
Quote from: Caliga on January 28, 2010, 01:56:21 PM
I did have an ATI card in the past (it might have even been with the AMD CPU build) and I don't remember having tons of issues with it.
The "problems" with ATI cards are largely overblown, IMO. It seems like 9 out of 10 "driver issues" are solved simply by moving to the most recent driver version (admittedly, it does end up requiring some bleeding-edge updates once in a while). Also, I've been seeing a lot more devs catering to the lower-priced ATI group nowadays. When Star Trek Online started updating their UI, they made a lot of changes that made the game more compatible with ATI cards, for example.
Quote from: Caliga on January 28, 2010, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 28, 2010, 01:36:37 PM
I wasn't. It comes from my experience.
Your experience over, say, the last few months (yes I do know what you do for a living)? Like I said earlier I'm not concerned about five years ago. :contract:
I did have an ATI card in the past (it might have even been with the AMD CPU build) and I don't remember having tons of issues with it.
Not only work experience. How many games have you purchased that sports the ATI logo vs the NVIDIA logo?
Your point is well taken, I just don't know how often the logo is anything other than a marketing hook (Arkham Asylum aside :P )
Quote from: Caliga on January 28, 2010, 02:57:08 PM
Your point is well taken, I just don't know how often the logo is anything other than a marketing hook (Arkham Asylum aside :P )
It
is a marketing hook. Unless you're using the bleeding edge of Direct3D to optimize for ATI cards or the bleeding edge of OpenGL to optimize for nVidia, the difference is negligible. Both are capable of supporting the bulk of both standards, both use the same incarnations of pixel shaders and the same pixel pipeline architecture. You're only going to run into catastrophic failures when one
requires a
complete implementation of either the latest Direct3D or OpenGL versions.
Well yeah, but I suppose it could have some meaning in that nvidia says to a developer "Here's $1 million if you put our logo in a splash when the app loads AND only QA this app on our hardware." I think that was part of the whole Arkham Asylum scandal.... supposedly the app locks out AA features if it detects a hardware ID from an ATI device, but if they only tested the game on nvidia hardware they can say some BS like "Well, we failed to test this application with ATI chipsets/drivers so we have no idea how it performs." In that case if you didn't dig deeper you'd think the developers were just sloppy, as opposed to deliberately neglecting standard hardware QA work because they were bribed to. -_-
My problem with the two ATI cards I had was that they became so noisy that I had to replace them for that reason alone. Making bearings that do not wear out in three months or so woulda cost them a coupla pennies per card, but they didn't do so. An ATI card these days would have to be significantly better than its NVidea equivalent to get me to buy ATI right now.
Well, that's on the card manufacturer, not AMD/ATI. But it is indeed the case that this generation of ATI cards is better than the equivalent generation. If you look at any hardware buying guide right now from a place like Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, etc. they always go with an ATI card except at the ultra high end, and I personally would never spend $400+ on a video card so I couldn't care less how ATI competes with nvidia in that bracket.
Quote from: Caliga on January 31, 2010, 11:32:36 AM
Well, that's on the card manufacturer, not AMD/ATI. But it is indeed the case that this generation of ATI cards is better than the equivalent generation. If you look at any hardware buying guide right now from a place like Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, etc. they always go with an ATI card except at the ultra high end, and I personally would never spend $400+ on a video card so I couldn't care less how ATI competes with nvidia in that bracket.
:yes: to the bolded part. Buy a Powercolor or a Sapphire of either flavor and you're probably asking for trouble.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 31, 2010, 11:13:32 PM
:yes: to the bolded part. Buy a Powercolor or a Sapphire of either flavor and you're probably asking for trouble.
Good point, both of ya.
What's wrong with Sapphire and Powercolor?
Quote from: Caliga on February 01, 2010, 07:47:11 AM
What's wrong with Sapphire and Powercolor?
Cheap cards, usually because of cheap components. Admittedly, the video card in my 2003 Compaq is a Powercolor X1650 Pro, and it's been good to me, but I also tend to use that rig more for 3D modeling than any kind of gaming application. My Sapphire 9250 SE ran with a
heat sink instead of a fan, for pete's sake.
Caliga only a dumb ass buys ATI cards,
so i fully expect you to get one. :P
I miss Rendition.
I should post a followup:
I ended up getting a Sapphire Vapor-X HD 5770.
It's fast and works with every game.
It's totally silent.
It draws less power than my old card (Geforce 9600 GT).
In conclusion, the ATI naysayers were wrong. :P
Quote from: Caliga on March 18, 2010, 05:16:58 AM
I should post a followup:
I ended up getting a Sapphire Vapor-X HD 5770.
It's fast and works with every game.
It's totally silent.
It draws less power than my old card (Geforce 9600 GT).
In conclusion, the ATI naysayers were wrong. :P
Say that again in six months or a year, and you will be credible. :P
You do indeed have a point, my good man. :bowler: