Thank god! Finally, some sense is found.
The Growing Backlash Against Overparenting (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1940395-1,00.html)
No shit, I'm sick of running into young people who can't function away from home.
Some of the examples are hilariously sickening.
Quoteemployers like Ernst & Young were creating "parent packs" for recruits to give Mom and Dad, since they were involved in negotiating salary and benefits.
Why the hell would you hire someone who needed their Mom to negotiate their salary?
Pretty funny coming from you.
You're such a hovering Helicopter Mom, we can hear "Ride of the Valkyries" as your minivan approaches the beach.
:lol:
I've had PTA parents talk about me for years because I "made" my kids walk to school on their own once they hit 3rd grade and refused to bring a forgotten coat to school when the wind picked up a bit.
Many things I do poorly as a parent, but helicoptering is not one of them. :P
QuoteOverparenting had been around long before Douglas MacArthur's mom Pinky moved with him to West Point in 1899 and took an apartment near the campus, supposedly so she could watch him with a telescope to be sure he was studying.
:lmfao:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 22, 2009, 11:20:51 PM
Why the hell would you hire someone who needed their Mom to negotiate their salary?
Carter and Jak's German teacher got the job because her daddy called in and talked to the Principal about hiring her. No, I'm not kidding. The "woman" is 22 years old. She can't pick up the phone or drop by the school on her own?? :blink:
Quote from: merithyn on November 22, 2009, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 22, 2009, 11:20:51 PM
Why the hell would you hire someone who needed their Mom to negotiate their salary?
Carter and Jak's German teacher got the job because her daddy called in and talked to the Principal about hiring her. No, I'm not kidding. The "woman" is 22 years old. She can't pick up the phone or drop by the school on her own?? :blink:
There's nothing wrong with that. Are you angry at your own father?
There's nothing wrong with a parent keeping an eye out for job openings for their kid, or telling them "Hey, you should apply here". But actually calling the principal for the kid is too much - that's what the prospective employee should be doing, not their parent.
Unless the principal and the woman's father had some sort of previous connection or friendship. That kind of connection / string-pulling is entirely commonplace.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on November 23, 2009, 12:56:33 AM
Unless the principal and the woman's father had some sort of previous connection or friendship. That kind of connection / string-pulling is entirely commonplace.
Okay, yeah. Though even if there is a connection, her father should have made her call the principal and talk with him, saying "Hey, I'm so-and-so's daughter."
At least, that's what my parents would have done, and what I would do.
Over parenting is a pet peeve of mine. One example is a friend of mine who doesn't work, and his wife doesn't work. He was involved in an IT startup during the dot-com boom that got bought out for like $400m by Microsoft. He got a very small slice of that (enough that he doesn't have to work again), his oldest kid is 13 and his youngest kid is 9. He still has "story time" at 8pm with all three kids. His primary "job" is essentially doing whatever his kids want whenever they want. He also spends 3-4 hours a night working on his kid's homework with them.
There's probably a lot of stuff I'll mess up in my daughter's life but one thing I'm sure I won't mess up is her education. To me, a parent spending that much time helping his kid's with their homework is essentially being destructive. Firstly, by and large I think that up until at least High School homework is really more "going through the motions" and typically isn't any sort of intellectual challenge. It's really just providing a structure to make kids go through the motions of learning a subject independently.
Note that last part independently. Home work exists because while a teacher has the responsibility of teaching the core fundamentals and the concepts, to truly learn something a child needs to work alone and needs to learn how to apply the concepts to solve problems.
For example in say, High School level Calculus the teacher is going to show you how to do something, and then he'll assign several homework problems that can be solved using those concepts, but the problems are different enough from the examples given in class that the student has to think to figure out how to apply them. When parents hand hold all the way through the homework process, starting at a very young age certain things never happen:
1. The kid never learns to take responsibility for sitting down and working on their homework on their own initiative. I think it is valuable to give kids the opportunity to slack off on their homework and get bad grades, enforce consequences for that.
2. If you're always providing help, they never struggle. If you never struggle, I question if you're really learning. If the subject matter is so easy you aren't struggling then you're not being exposed to subject matter at your level. If the subject matter is hard and forces you to invest time and effort to learn it (or even to fail at learning and be shown how it is done later by a teacher) then you're actually learning something. When your parents are pulling all the answers down off the internet for you, you're learning nothing.
I won't even get started on parents who think every child has some sort of fundamental learning disability and thus can't be held responsible for doing anything on their own.
Quote from: merithyn on November 22, 2009, 11:11:08 PM
Thank god! Finally, some sense is found.
The Growing Backlash Against Overparenting (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1940395-1,00.html)
I agree, glad you have come around Meri!
QuoteBut too many parents, says Skenazy, have the math all wrong. Refusing to vaccinate your children, as millions now threaten to do in the case of the swine flu, is statistically reckless; on the other hand, there are no reports of a child ever being poisoned by a stranger handing out tainted Halloween candy, and the odds of being kidnapped and killed by a stranger are about 1 in 1.5 million.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 22, 2009, 11:20:51 PM
No shit, I'm sick of running into young people who can't function away from home.
Some of the examples are hilariously sickening.
Quoteemployers like Ernst & Young were creating "parent packs" for recruits to give Mom and Dad, since they were involved in negotiating salary and benefits.
Why the hell would you hire someone who needed their Mom to negotiate their salary?
Not every 22 year old knows the ins and outs of employment benefits. For most, it's the first time they encounter bonus structures, short term vs long term disability, and what exactly constitutes employee healthcare. Give em a break.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2009, 11:20:58 PM
Pretty funny coming from you.
You're such a hovering Helicopter Mom, we can hear "Ride of the Valkyries" as your minivan approaches the beach.
Not to mention Tim, the poster boy for immature childishness. :P
Meh, Tim might be a puppy but he's a bold puppy. Sold all those encyclopaedias to the rednecks and now he's in Korea :cool:
Unless.....unless.........Tim.........you haven't got your mom with you have you :contract: ?
Quote from: Martinus on November 23, 2009, 02:30:34 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2009, 11:20:58 PM
Pretty funny coming from you.
You're such a hovering Helicopter Mom, we can hear "Ride of the Valkyries" as your minivan approaches the beach.
Not to mention Tim, the poster boy for immature childishness. :P
Tim may well be called childish in his enthusiasm (and there's certainly nothing negative about that) but from what I can discern he has accomplished more than most, and done stuff a lot of people would just dream about but never have the guts to follow through on.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on November 23, 2009, 12:56:33 AM
Unless the principal and the woman's father had some sort of previous connection or friendship. That kind of connection / string-pulling is entirely commonplace.
They didn't.
Quote from: Martinus on November 23, 2009, 02:30:34 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2009, 11:20:58 PM
Pretty funny coming from you.
You're such a hovering Helicopter Mom, we can hear "Ride of the Valkyries" as your minivan approaches the beach.
Not to mention Tim, the poster boy for immature childishness. :P
Tim is far more mature and less childish than you.
I would be thrilled if the mother of a hot 22 year old aspiring teacher would call to ask me to hire her daughter.
She's already used to and comfortable with being told what to do. :cool:
Quote from: Berkut on November 23, 2009, 01:37:08 AM
I agree, glad you have come around Meri!
QuoteBut too many parents, says Skenazy, have the math all wrong. Refusing to vaccinate your children, as millions now threaten to do in the case of the swine flu, is statistically reckless; on the other hand, there are no reports of a child ever being poisoned by a stranger handing out tainted Halloween candy, and the odds of being kidnapped and killed by a stranger are about 1 in 1.5 million.
Sure thing! And maybe I'll run out and get them vaccinated for varicella while I'm at it, too, even though they already had that! :w00t:
Quote from: merithyn on November 23, 2009, 07:56:35 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on November 23, 2009, 12:56:33 AM
Unless the principal and the woman's father had some sort of previous connection or friendship. That kind of connection / string-pulling is entirely commonplace.
They didn't.
Then the fault is with the employer.
Quote from: Neil on November 23, 2009, 08:04:40 AM
Then the fault is with the employer.
Agreed, and he's "fixing" it now, a semester in. Apparently, she's not actually certified to teach, so as of January, she's done. They're bringing in a guy from Finland to teach German in a program they intend to kill after this year. :mellow:
Quote from: merithyn on November 23, 2009, 08:07:37 AM
Agreed, and he's "fixing" it now, a semester in. Apparently, she's not actually certified to teach
:blink:
You work at a public school, right? I can't believe he could have hired someone without teaching certs, if so... that's like a hospital hiring a "doctor" who doesn't have an M.D. The unions would have a shitfit, if not the parents.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2009, 01:39:13 AM
Not every 22 year old knows the ins and outs of employment benefits. For most, it's the first time they encounter bonus structures, short term vs long term disability, and what exactly constitutes employee healthcare. Give em a break.
Working for Ernst & Young, and they can't figure this stuff out? Or at least ask Mom and Dad to work it out with them at home, while they take care of it at work? And why wasn't this taught to them prior to graduating college?
Honestly, that's the bit that astounds me. "But my baby's never encountered this before! How is she supposed to understand it??" Well, how about you start talking to them about this stuff well before they're working out that details on their first post-grad job? That'd be a nice start.
The second I would have any contact whatsoever with a potential employee's parents is the second that a job offer is retracted (or never extended in the first place if we hadn't gotten to the offer stage yet).
Quote from: Caliga on November 23, 2009, 08:11:55 AM
:blink:
You work at a public school, right? I can't believe he could have hired someone without teaching certs, if so... that's like a hospital hiring a "doctor" who doesn't have an M.D. The unions would have a shitfit, if not the parents.
Long-term subs get a dispensation. They couldn't find anyone certified to fill the spot, so they were allowed to hire a qualified sub until they had one. The girl is fluent in German (that's what her degree was in), ergo, she's "qualified". The union couldn't and wouldn't do anything under the circumstances. Parents are used to this in the district so no one said much.
Jeremy's Honors Reading teacher for most of last year wasn't certified in this state, but was the best teacher Jeremy had ever had. They replaced him with a certified teacher who left in tears every day for a week before finally quitting. Her replacement, also certified, did the same in her third week in the job after fighting off H1N1 for the first two weeks. Now, he's back in the classroom, the kids are learning, and everyone is happy.
I'm not trying to defend Nazi-like rigidity with regard to teaching certs... I was just pointing out how strange that sounded to me given the Nazi-like rigidity I'm familiar with. Princesca thought about becoming a teacher once in Mass. and actually got a provisional cert (which expires after 1 year unless you enroll in an M.Ed. program), and IIRC even subs had to have at least a provisional cert to be in the classroom. I believe it's the same or very similar in Kentucky.
Quote from: Caliga on November 23, 2009, 08:21:32 AM
I'm not trying to defend Nazi-like rigidity with regard to teaching certs... I was just pointing out how strange that sounded to me given the Nazi-like rigidity I'm familiar with. Princesca thought about becoming a teacher once in Mass. and actually got a provisional cert (which expires after 1 year unless you enroll in an M.Ed. program), and IIRC even subs had to have at least a provisional cert to be in the classroom. I believe it's the same or very similar in Kentucky.
Correct as far as Mass goes. Though its slightly less rigid on subs. Last time I worked in a puiblic school a sub with an M.Ed. got like an extra five bucks a day and could be a long term substitute, but often times they just need a body and will take someone without the masters.
Subs /= regular teachers
Different rules for different jobs.
I've never seen anybody's parents call on me at work. :(
I have received one email from a parent. I told them that I could not speak to another person about a grade. They went to my department head who explained calmly that their child was no longer in 3rd grade.
Quote from: merithyn on November 23, 2009, 08:12:20 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2009, 01:39:13 AM
Not every 22 year old knows the ins and outs of employment benefits. For most, it's the first time they encounter bonus structures, short term vs long term disability, and what exactly constitutes employee healthcare. Give em a break.
Working for Ernst & Young, and they can't figure this stuff out? Or at least ask Mom and Dad to work it out with them at home, while they take care of it at work? And why wasn't this taught to them prior to graduating college?
Honestly, that's the bit that astounds me. "But my baby's never encountered this before! How is she supposed to understand it??" Well, how about you start talking to them about this stuff well before they're working out that details on their first post-grad job? That'd be a nice start.
Uhmm, not that I'd defend using your parents to negotiate anything in a job situation.
But you ARE aware that E&Y and assorted other accounting firms, in particullar the big 4, take in very young, almost uneducated, people directly from highschool or in your case college, in apprentice positions, then train them in house, put them through school, business college or business school and THEN maybe, get them certified?
So, when they take in a large amount of kids who is chosing basically their carreer, then I think it is fine that mum and dad to SOME extend offer advice and guidance, if not negotiate the whole deal.
V
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2009, 08:48:02 AM
I've never seen anybody's parents call on me at work. :(
You are fortunate. A Chinese girl's husband called my former boss yelling at him because he said something that upset the girl.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2009, 08:48:02 AM
I've never seen anybody's parents call on me at work. :(
Aren't you someone's parent?
For substitute teaching in Virginia, all you need is a college degree - any degree is fine.
Actually, you might just need a high school diploma. I'm not too sure about that, though.
The only reason that an employer should ever discuss anything with an employee's parenets is if you hire minors. When I worked for Shoney's, our District Manager wanted anyone who was considering hiring a minor to meet with the prospective employee's parents and discuss what would be expected of them. Mostly it was just to let them know that if we hired their kid, we would be expecting him or her to work holidays and so they shouldn't expect that their kid would get those days off for family activities.
Well, it's clear to me that all those parents who refuse to be helicopter parents are abusing their children by parental absence! DSS needs to look into such things!! ;)
In seriousness though. Can you imagine - having parents show up to negotiate jobs and raises for an adult child? You'd think the parent would know something is wrong if they're feeling they need to do that kind of thing. :huh:
Quote from: KRonn on November 23, 2009, 11:06:41 AM
Well, it's clear to me that all those parents who refuse to be helicopter parents are abusing their children by parental absence! DSS needs to look into such things!! ;)
In seriousness though. Can you imagine - having parents show up to negotiate jobs and raises for an adult child? You'd think the parent would know something is wrong if they're feeling they need to do that kind of thing. :huh:
The part that really blows my mind is the employer not only accepting that, but encouraging it. I don't care if you are hiring someone right out of school; if you're hiring adults, you should expect them to act like adults, and part of that is not having their parents do things for them that they should be doing for themselves. I mean, sure, give them a benefits package and let them take it home and study it to decide what options are right for them, and if they want to get advice from their parents--or anyone else--that's fine, but actually sending a "parent pack" sounds retarded.
I wonder if some of those examples were isolated incidents, out of contexts, or overblown, even if they did support a very good argument.
Quote from: dps on November 23, 2009, 11:28:30 AM
Quote from: KRonn on November 23, 2009, 11:06:41 AM
Well, it's clear to me that all those parents who refuse to be helicopter parents are abusing their children by parental absence! DSS needs to look into such things!! ;)
In seriousness though. Can you imagine - having parents show up to negotiate jobs and raises for an adult child? You'd think the parent would know something is wrong if they're feeling they need to do that kind of thing. :huh:
The part that really blows my mind is the employer not only accepting that, but encouraging it. I don't care if you are hiring someone right out of school; if you're hiring adults, you should expect them to act like adults, and part of that is not having their parents do things for them that they should be doing for themselves. I mean, sure, give them a benefits package and let them take it home and study it to decide what options are right for them, and if they want to get advice from their parents--or anyone else--that's fine, but actually sending a "parent pack" sounds retarded.
If overhere is anything to go by the parent pack is the same pack they send to high school career councilors??
OFC if it isn't then its just weird :p
V
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 23, 2009, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2009, 08:48:02 AM
I've never seen anybody's parents call on me at work. :(
You are fortunate. A Chinese girl's husband called my former boss yelling at him because he said something that upset the girl.
When I worked at the construction company it was often the wives of the construction workers who called in when there were queries about the wage slip. My sister also did check and verify her (now ex-)husband's wage slip based on the hours he wrote, his contract, overtime surcharge etc.
Quote from: merithyn on November 23, 2009, 08:16:51 AM
Long-term subs get a dispensation. They couldn't find anyone certified to fill the spot, so they were allowed to hire a qualified sub until they had one. The girl is fluent in German (that's what her degree was in), ergo, she's "qualified". The union couldn't and wouldn't do anything under the circumstances. Parents are used to this in the district so no one said much.
Jeremy's Honors Reading teacher for most of last year wasn't certified in this state, but was the best teacher Jeremy had ever had. They replaced him with a certified teacher who left in tears every day for a week before finally quitting. Her replacement, also certified, did the same in her third week in the job after fighting off H1N1 for the first two weeks. Now, he's back in the classroom, the kids are learning, and everyone is happy.
Now, see, you should have mentioned she was a sub in the first place. And yeah, subs get handled with kid gloves- in NJ, all you need to substitute teach is to have at least 60 college credits and be fingerprinted for AFIS.
Meh, hard to say how much of this is true. To a degree, this simply sounds like another round in the seemingly endless "parents are at fault for everything they do or fail to do" barrage. Parents are at fault for not caring enough, or for caring too much.
One thing I've actually encountered personally:
QuoteA Texas school required parents wanting to help with the second-grade holiday party to have a background check first.
Our school requires *all* parent volunteers to agree to a background check. Seems more likely to be a result of excessive fear of liability on the part of school officials than "over parenting", though.
Quote from: Syt on November 23, 2009, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 23, 2009, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2009, 08:48:02 AM
I've never seen anybody's parents call on me at work. :(
You are fortunate. A Chinese girl's husband called my former boss yelling at him because he said something that upset the girl.
When I worked at the construction company it was often the wives of the construction workers who called in when there were queries about the wage slip. My sister also did check and verify her (now ex-)husband's wage slip based on the hours he wrote, his contract, overtime surcharge etc.
Could be that it was the wives balancing the books at home and taking care of all the bills, etc. That's not uncommon.
Quote from: merithyn on November 23, 2009, 08:12:20 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2009, 01:39:13 AM
Not every 22 year old knows the ins and outs of employment benefits. For most, it's the first time they encounter bonus structures, short term vs long term disability, and what exactly constitutes employee healthcare. Give em a break.
Working for Ernst & Young, and they can't figure this stuff out? Or at least ask Mom and Dad to work it out with them at home, while they take care of it at work? And why wasn't this taught to them prior to graduating college?
Honestly, that's the bit that astounds me. "But my baby's never encountered this before! How is she supposed to understand it??" Well, how about you start talking to them about this stuff well before they're working out that details on their first post-grad job? That'd be a nice start.
I never took a course in college on the difference between HMOs, PPOs, and POSs.
So fuck off and ignore your pediatrician.
:lol: