http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090329/ap_on_go_ot/tobacco_tax
QuoteWASHINGTON – However they satisfy their nicotine cravings, tobacco users are facing a big hit as the single largest federal tobacco tax increase ever takes effect Wednesday.
Tobacco companies and public health advocates, longtime foes in the nicotine battles, are trying to turn the situation to their advantage. The major cigarette makers raised prices a couple of weeks ago, partly to offset any drop in profits once the per-pack tax climbs from 39 cents to $1.01.
Medical groups see a tax increase right in the middle of a recession as a great incentive to help persuade smokers to quit.
Tobacco taxes are soaring to finance a major expansion of health insurance for children. President Barack Obama signed that health initiative soon after taking office.
Other tobacco products, from cigars to pipes and smokeless, will see similarly large tax increases, too. For example, the tax on chewing tobacco will go up from 19.5 cents per pound to 50 cents. The total expected to be raised over the 4 1/2 year-long health insurance expansion is nearly $33 billion.
Smokers are mulling their options.
Standing outside an office building in downtown Washington last week, 29-year-old Sam Sarkhosh puffed on a Marlboro Light. His 8-year-old daughter has been pleading with him to quit, he explained, and he has set a goal to give up smoking by his 30th birthday.
"I'm trying to quit smoking, and it could help," said Sarkhosh, an information systems specialist. "I don't think it will stop me from buying cigarettes every now and then, but definitely not as often." A friend who smokes Camels went out and bought four cartons in advance, he said.
The tax increase is only the first move in a recharged anti-smoking campaign. Congress also is considering legislation to empower the Food and Drug Administration to regulate tobacco. That could lead to reformulated cigarettes. Obama, who has agonized over his own cigarette habit, said he would sign such a bill.
Prospects for reducing the harm from smoking are better than they have been in years, said Dr. Timothy Gardner, president of the American Heart Association. The tax increase "is a terrific public health move by the federal government," he said. "Every time that the tax on tobacco goes up, the use of cigarettes goes down."
About one in five adults in the United States smokes cigarettes. That's a gradually dwindling share, though it isn't shrinking fast enough for public health advocates.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says cigarette smoking results in an estimated 443,000 premature deaths each year, and costs the economy $193 billion in health care expenses and lost time from work. Smoking is a major contributor to heart disease, cancer and lung disease.
Public health officials are urging individual doctors and staff at telephone "quit lines" in every state to make the most of the tax increase by reaching out to smokers. But it's unclear how deeply the tax will cut into tobacco consumption.
Eric Lindblom, research director for the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, says he expects a drop of at least 6 percent to 7 percent among young smokers.
Philip Gorham, who tracks the tobacco business for Morningstar, the investment research firm, said he expects an overall drop of 4 percent to 5 percent this year. What happens after that is less certain, especially as the economy recovers.
"I would expect a road bump this year," said Gorham. "But these companies will still be extremely profitable. I still think they will make their return on capital by wide margins in the long run."
Philip Morris USA, the largest tobacco company and maker of Marlboro, is forecasting a drop, but spokesman Bill Phelps said he cannot predict how big. Philip Morris raised Marlboro prices by 71 cents a pack early this month, and prices on smaller brands by 81 cents a pack. Other major companies followed suit.
The pricing moves raised eyebrows. "That's nothing more than greed," said Kevin Altman, an industry consultant who advises small tobacco companies. "They weren't required to charge that until April 1. They are just putting that into their pockets."
Responded Phelps: "We raised our prices in direct response to the federal excise tax increase, and people who are upset about that should find out how their member of Congress voted, and contact him or her."
Some policy analysts have questioned the wisdom of boosting tobacco taxes to finance health care for children. They argue that the fate of such a broad program should not depend on revenues derived from a minority of the adult population, many of whom have low incomes and are hooked on a habit. The tobacco industry is also warning that the steep increase will lead to tax evasion through old-fashioned smuggling or by Internet purchase from abroad.
But smoking control advocates such as Lindblom say tobacco taxes should be even higher. "There's a lot of room to go after cigars and smokeless," he said. "We are certainly hopeful that health care reform will include some more increases."
Standing outside a Washington department store, attorney Margaret Webster, 42, puffed on a Marlboro Ultra Light and lamented the fact that the government is reaching deeper into her pocketbook.
"I don't think we (smokers) like it," she said. "But I've heard so many people say they were going to quit when the price went up ... and they're still smoking."
One of these days they'll get so high, a thriving black market will pop up to pick up the slack.
When I was in Chicago, there was a convenient store near my apartment that sold much cheaper backs of cigarettes that had stamped on them "Not for individual sale." Came with a free lighter, too.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 29, 2009, 03:38:30 PM
One of these days they'll get so high, a thriving black market will pop up to pick up the slack.
Naw, everyone will just drive a bit farther to the closest Indian Reservation to get a year's supply of cheap smokes.
I approve.
Snus should be more widespread too. That'd help things.
Looks like I picked a good time to quit. :)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 29, 2009, 03:38:30 PM
One of these days they'll get so high, a thriving black market will pop up to pick up the slack.
indeed. maybe a third of all smokes sold in Canada are Mohawk origin, price is <$2.50 a pack/per carton, which is cheaper than when I started smoking as a teenager. crazy.
anyhow, you can sell an addict what they need at any price, if there is no alternative.
Quote from: saskganesh on March 30, 2009, 12:47:46 PM
anyhow, you can sell an addict what they need at any price, if there is no alternative.
True, but if the legal price gets high enough, it will lead to the creation of a black market.
In the Eastern US, not that many people live close to an Indian reservation. And even if you stocked up while say on vacation, most smokers I know I doubt could fi a year's supply into their car.
I don't support ruinous taxes, which tobacco taxes seem to be getting to, or are already.
I don't like tobacco products, never used them or cared for them, but we seem to have gotten into a bit of mania against smoking too, like we do with some other things.
Quote from: KRonn on March 30, 2009, 01:05:48 PM
I don't support ruinous taxes, which tobacco taxes seem to be getting to, or are already.
I don't like tobacco products, never used them or cared for them, but we seem to have gotten into a bit of mania against smoking too, like we do with some other things.
It's all about the government trying to milk the tobacco industy for evey penny they can get. Of course, like any other business, the tobacco industy just passes the cost on to the customer. It quit being about trying to discourage people from smoking several years ago.
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 01:11:35 PM
It quit being about trying to discourage people from smoking several years ago.
Social pressure and recent no-smoking-in-buildings laws are pretty much doing that on their own.
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on March 30, 2009, 12:47:46 PM
anyhow, you can sell an addict what they need at any price, if there is no alternative.
True, but if the legal price gets high enough, it will lead to the creation of a black market.
In the Eastern US, not that many people live close to an Indian reservation. And even if you stocked up while say on vacation, most smokers I know I doubt could fit a year's supply into their car.
all true. but the feds have had some successes cracking down on illegal smokes beforehand in Vancouver by targeting retailers with fines and sentences. with the Indians, its little different
I'm actually surprised the price is so low. the Indians could double their prices and still come out well below the legal price.
Quote from: saskganesh on March 30, 2009, 01:18:51 PM
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on March 30, 2009, 12:47:46 PM
anyhow, you can sell an addict what they need at any price, if there is no alternative.
True, but if the legal price gets high enough, it will lead to the creation of a black market.
In the Eastern US, not that many people live close to an Indian reservation. And even if you stocked up while say on vacation, most smokers I know I doubt could fit a year's supply into their car.
all true. but the feds have had some successes cracking down on illegal smokes beforehand in Vancouver by targeting retailers with fines and sentences. with the Indians, its little different
I'm actually surprised the price is so low. the Indians could double their prices and still come out well below the legal price.
Every now and again the NYS government tries to go after the Indians and force them to assess taxes on smokes.
Last time the Indians responded by blockading Interstate 90.
Good times. Should have sent zombie Custer.
Cigarette taxes have no real influence on my consumption of them. I only smoke a pack a week at most, I can pay a bit more. In the US I was usually buying Nat Sherman anyway, which were already expensive.
Quote from: Tyr on March 30, 2009, 08:33:49 AM
I approve.
Snus should be more widespread too. That'd help things.
I've just started dipping that Camel Snus that just came out. Good stuff.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 30, 2009, 01:35:07 PM
Cigarette taxes have no real influence on my consumption of them. I only smoke a pack a week at most, I can pay a bit more. In the US I was usually buying Nat Sherman anyway, which were already expensive.
They influenced me as a poor intern in Chicago. Indignant that they cost almost double what they cost in SF, I didn't smoke most of the summer until I found that shady shop. :blush:
I switched to discount brands, mainly. Still not too bad in Philadelphia compared to NJ or NY (now it's a bit over $5.00 a pack of premiums), got to go to Delaware for the good deals (though not what they were a few years ago, must have had a state tax hike).
Maybe it's time for me to switch to discount as well. Any reccomendations? What do you smoke Capetano?
Quote from: Berkut on March 30, 2009, 01:21:23 PM
Every now and again the NYS government tries to go after the Indians and force them to assess taxes on smokes.
Last time the Indians responded by blockading Interstate 90.
Good times. Should have sent zombie Custer.
You should've seen the reaction a few years back the night Turning Stone towed NYS Trooper Squad Cars from the casino parking lot. :menace:
Quote from: Fireblade on March 30, 2009, 04:38:46 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 30, 2009, 08:33:49 AM
I approve.
Snus should be more widespread too. That'd help things.
I've just started dipping that Camel Snus that just came out. Good stuff.
Dipping. :x
We as in snus?
Well, luckily (i guess) for me I find the buy1get1 free packs of marlboro lights all the time.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 30, 2009, 10:54:35 PM
Dipping. :x
The stuff he's talking about is rather different from the "regular" "dip" like Copenhagen, etc.
Quote from: fahdiz on March 30, 2009, 01:18:34 PM
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 01:11:35 PM
It quit being about trying to discourage people from smoking several years ago.
Social pressure and recent no-smoking-in-buildings laws are pretty much doing that on their own.
Is that US wide now? Last I heard (ages ago) it was just in NY.
But it does seem to be spreading across much of Europe so I can hope America is following suit.
Quote from: Tyr on March 31, 2009, 11:38:06 AM
Is that US wide now? Last I heard (ages ago) it was just in NY.
But it does seem to be spreading across much of Europe so I can hope America is following suit.
This is happening even in Virginia, where Tobacco is King.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2009, 08:13:47 PM
Maybe it's time for me to switch to discount as well. Any reccomendations? What do you smoke Capetano?
I get Gold Coast when I can, and usually USA Gold otherwise. Didn't like Mavericks or Dorals very much. Basics are fine but usually not that much cheaper around here.
Quote from: fahdiz on March 30, 2009, 01:18:34 PM
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 01:11:35 PM
It quit being about trying to discourage people from smoking several years ago.
Social pressure and recent no-smoking-in-buildings laws are pretty much doing that on their own.
Lucky Americans. They'll never ban smoking on pubs here. I hate the fucking tobacco stink every time I come home.
Quote from: Tyr on March 31, 2009, 11:38:06 AM
Is that US wide now? Last I heard (ages ago) it was just in NY.
But it does seem to be spreading across much of Europe so I can hope America is following suit.
California has had a smoking ban since the early 90s (bars and clubs got banned in the late 90s).
Quote from: Iormlund on March 31, 2009, 12:55:35 PM
Lucky Americans. They'll never ban smoking on pubs here. I hate the fucking tobacco stink every time I come home.
Really? Smoking bans seem to be catching on in Europe from what I've seen.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 31, 2009, 12:44:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2009, 08:13:47 PM
Maybe it's time for me to switch to discount as well. Any reccomendations? What do you smoke Capetano?
I get Gold Coast when I can, and usually USA Gold otherwise. Didn't like Mavericks or Dorals very much. Basics are fine but usually not that much cheaper around here.
All true
Quote from: grumbler on March 31, 2009, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 31, 2009, 11:38:06 AM
Is that US wide now? Last I heard (ages ago) it was just in NY.
But it does seem to be spreading across much of Europe so I can hope America is following suit.
This is happening even in Virginia, where Tobacco is King.
Not in North Carolina, at least yet. In WV it was up to each county, so there was a lot of variety in the regulations.
I find it funny that some of the people who oppose legalization of marijuana so vocally oppose raising taxes on tobacco products.
Quote from: Martinus on March 31, 2009, 06:03:43 PM
I find it funny that some of the people who oppose legalization of marijuana so vocally oppose raising taxes on tobacco products.
Who exactly do you have in mind?