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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Queequeg on November 16, 2009, 08:04:44 PM

Title: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Queequeg on November 16, 2009, 08:04:44 PM
Just saw an interesting painting depicting a meeting between Darius the Great and the Scythians, by a Polish painter in the late 18th Century.
Link. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Smuglewicz-Pos%C5%82owie_scytyjscy_przed_Dariuszem.jpg)
Now, if you are on this board, you can immdeately tell what is wrong with this.  But I find far more interesting what is right, at least loosely.

Now, it would appear that the primary inspiration for these outfits is a combination of then near-contemporary Ottoman styles and some vague knowledge of styles from Biblical times.

But somehow, there is a lot here that is, loosely speaking, spot on. 

The carpet pattern could pretty easily be Scythian, and looks definitely non-Islamic.  The armor is surprisingly accurate on the Scythians, though I think Trajan's Column has Sarmatian Cataphracts depicted in similar scale armor.  Weirdly enough, the helmets look a lot like Parthian and Sassanian designs, that later on where copied by the Romans and resulted in even the far-off Sutton Ho helmet.  The headresses, apart from the flat-out turbans, are not totally off base, weirdly enough.  The guy in the back with the really tall one looks like either a Dervish or an actual contemporary Zoroastrian, and the Persians loved their big hats. 

Now how would an 18th Century Polish painter know anything about Scythian carpets?  I guess he might have seen Trajan's Column in person, but how did he get the helmets right? 
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Barrister on November 16, 2009, 08:10:42 PM
I like pie...
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Ed Anger on November 16, 2009, 08:12:26 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2009, 08:10:42 PM
I like pie...

Is your pie: Scythian?
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Barrister on November 16, 2009, 08:18:21 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 16, 2009, 08:12:26 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2009, 08:10:42 PM
I like pie...

Is your pie: Scythian?

Let me check.

Nope.

Apple.  ;)
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 16, 2009, 08:27:30 PM
I like cake.
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: PDH on November 16, 2009, 08:45:01 PM
How early is this Early Modern?  I mean, I rarely get up before 7...
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: FunkMonk on November 16, 2009, 09:24:55 PM
spellus why do you set yourself up so?  :lol:
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Neil on November 16, 2009, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2009, 08:18:21 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 16, 2009, 08:12:26 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2009, 08:10:42 PM
I like pie...

Is your pie: Scythian?

Let me check.

Nope.

Apple.  ;)
:lol:

That was pretty funny.
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Faeelin on November 16, 2009, 10:37:56 PM
Is it that accurate? I didn't realize 5th century Scythians wore lamellar armor.  And the rug certainly looks like modern Persian designs: http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/chicago/2008-04-01-Bakhtiari71x100rug.jpg
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: garbon on November 16, 2009, 10:41:23 PM
How much gay is too gay?
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Faeelin on November 16, 2009, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 16, 2009, 10:41:23 PM
How much gay is too gay?
You're closest without going over.
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Razgovory on November 16, 2009, 10:48:05 PM
Books had reached Poland by the 18th century.
Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: Queequeg on November 16, 2009, 11:41:50 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on November 16, 2009, 09:24:55 PM
spellus why do you set yourself up so?  :lol:
If I have played my part well, clap your hands, and dismiss me with applause from the stage.
Quote
Is it that accurate? I didn't realize 5th century Scythians wore lamellar armor.  And the rug certainly looks like modern Persian designs:
I think they were by the next century.  The Persians wore something similar, but often under their clothes. 

You might be right about the carpet, but that is partially because I think the Persian style and the Scythian might have the same root, although the Scythians had no objections to animal forms.  What struck me in particular was the wave-like pattern on it, but that might be coincidental.  Probably is. 

Title: Re: A Very Psellus Topic: Early Modern Understanding of Classical World?
Post by: saskganesh on November 17, 2009, 08:42:14 AM
I do not think you have built the case for any of your assertions, except for maybe with the helmets. But are those kind of helmets just a standard classical-type motif for some painters?