I don't know about China, but I certainly expected to see much more prejudice against black people in Korea, and have been pleased to been mistaken. Quite a few of my colleagues are from South Africa and they haven't had many problems.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33936653/ns/world_news-washington_post//
QuoteChinese talk about racism ahead of Obama trip
President shatters stereotype of the West being run by whites
By Keith B. Richburg
updated 9:31 p.m. ET Nov. 14, 2009
As a mixed-race girl growing up in this most cosmopolitan of mainland Chinese cities, 20-year-old Lou Jing said she never experienced much discrimination — curiosity and questions, but never hostility.
So nothing prepared Lou, whose father is a black American, for the furor that erupted in late August when she beat out thousands of other young women on "Go! Oriental Angel," a televised talent show. Angry Internet posters called her a "black chimpanzee" and worse. One called for all blacks in China to be deported.
As the country gets ready to welcome the first African American U.S. president, whose first official visit here starts Sunday, the Chinese are confronting their attitudes toward race, including some deeply held prejudices about black people. Many appeared stunned that Americans had elected a black man, and President Obama's visit has underscored Chinese ambivalence about the increasing numbers of blacks living here.
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"It's sad," Lou said, her eyes welling up as she recalled her experience. "If I had a face that was half-Chinese and half-white, I wouldn't have gotten that criticism. . . . Before the contest, I didn't realize these kinds of attitudes existed."
As China has expanded its economic ties to Africa — trade last year reached $107 billion — the number of Africans living here has exploded. Tens of thousands have flocked to the south, where they are putting down roots, establishing communities, marrying local Chinese women and having children.
In the process, they are making tiny pockets of urban China more racially diverse — and forcing the Chinese to deal with issues of racial discrimination. In the southern city of Guangzhou, where residents refer to one downtown neighborhood as Chocolate City, local newspapers have been filled in recent months with stories detailing discrimination and alleging police harassment against the African community.
"In Guangzhou, to be frank, they don't like Africans very much," said Diallo Abdual, 26, who came to China from Guinea a year and a half ago to buy cheap Chinese clothes to ship back to West Africa for sale.
With the recession, his business has dried up, his money is gone, and he has overstayed his visa. Now, like many Africans here, he spends most of his days at Guangzhou's Tangqi shopping mall avoiding the police.
"The security will beat you with irons like you are a goat," he said. "The way they treat the blacks is very, very bad." He and others pointed out the spot where in July several Africans jumped from an upper-floor window to escape an immigration raid. One migrant was reported critically injured in the fall, and a large number of Africans marched on the local police station in protest.
The Guangzhou Security Bureau said in a statement at the time that it had a duty to check that foreigners living in the city were there legally.
Long-held prejudice
In the 1960s, China began befriending African countries, supporting liberation movements in Africa and bringing African students to China in a show of Third World solidarity. Lately, China has further deepened its ties to the continent, with Premier Wen Jiabao pledging $10 billion in new low-cost loans at a China-Africa summit in Egypt this month.
But that official policy of friendship has always been balanced against another reality -- the widely held view here that black people are inferior, while white people are admired as wealthy and successful.
"The kind of prejudice you see now really happened with the economic growth," said Hung Huang, a Beijing-based fashion magazine publisher and host of a nightly current affairs talk show, "Straight Talk." "The Chinese worshiped the West, and for Chinese people, 'the West' is white people."
Hung, 48, said her generation was "taught world history in a way that black people were oppressed, they were slaves, and we haven't seen any sign of success since. The African countries are still poor, and blacks [in America] still live in inner cities." Hung noted that Chinese racial prejudices extend to the country's own minority groups, including Tibetans and Uighurs — or anyone who is not ethnically Han Chinese.
The view of American blacks as poor and oppressed fits into the official government narrative of America as a place of glaring inequalities. China's most recent annual report on the United States' human rights record in 2008, released in February, made no mention of Obama's historic election. But it said, "In the United States, racial discrimination prevails in every aspect of social life."
"Black people and other minorities live at the bottom of the American society," the report said. "There is serious racial hostility in the United States."
Sherwood Hu, a Shanghai-based filmmaker, was one of the judges on "Go! Oriental Angel" who gave Lou high marks. "Before the Cultural Revolution, China considered black people our brothers and white people our enemies," Hu said. "But deep down, they're a little bit afraid of black people."
The racial animosity here taps into a prejudice dating to China's mainly agrarian past: Darker skin meant you worked the fields; lighter skin put you among the elite. The country is rapidly industrializing and urbanizing, but that historic prejudice remains. High-end skin-whitening products are a $100 million-a-year business in China, according to industry statistics.
'Are we racist?'
Chen Juan, 27, a secretary in an English training school in Beijing, regularly uses skin-whitening products and carries an umbrella on summer days. "For me, the whiter, the better. Being white means pretty," she said. "If someone looks too black, I feel they look countrified and like a farmer. . . . Being white is prettier than being black."
"In my impression, black people, especially Africans, are not clean enough," Chen continued. "To be frank, I just feel black people are too black. Definitely, I wouldn't consider having a black guy as my boyfriend even if he were rich."
P.C. Chike, a Nigerian businessman in Guangzhou who has been in China for five years, exports wigs and extensions made from Chinese hair to his home country. He married a Chinese woman from Beijing, and they have a son, with another on the way.
"Chinese don't like Africans. They don't like black skin," Chike said. "China trying to embrace Africa is a political statement. The question is, how do they treat black people?"
Li Wenjuan, Chike's wife, said she thinks racial attitudes are less coarse in Beijing than in Guangzhou, where the commonly used Cantonese term for blacks translates as "black ghosts."
Some here say Obama's presidency is causing a major shift in attitudes. Others, however, say many Chinese rationalize his election as a fluke of the American system or suggest that Obama, whose mother was white, isn't "really" black.
"It will be really interesting to see what happens when he comes to visit, because I really think the Chinese have a hard time with it," said Hung. "Nobody has dealt with this question of what this means to our sense of race. It's a kind of self-examination that Chinese — including myself — need to go through. Are we racist?"
Lou sees similarities between her life and Obama's -- she also grew up without her father, whom she never knew. She read Obama's autobiography and watched his campaign speeches on television. She learned how to chant "Yes, we can!" in English and calls Obama "my idol."
Reading the withering online criticisms of her talent-show appearance, she recalled, she came across one poster who asked: "Now that Obama is president, does that mean a new day for black people has arrived?"
"I think the answer is yes," she said. "Some Chinese people's perceptions of black people here have been transformed."
Researchers Wang Juan and Zhang Jie contributed to this report from Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou.
korea and Japan are more in tune with western culture whereby black=cool.
China is still stuck in the old fashioned view of the paler the better. Weird so much of Asia would still have it. Even some westernised places (Thailand I hear is big on it). Europe lost that ages ago.
Virtually all of the skin-care products here contain skin-whitening agents. There is a saying along the lines of "whiteness hides 1,000 uglies." Being pale is considered beautiful.
I can't count the number of time I have heard racist remarks directed against black people. So and so is a "smelly black man", "I like Will Smith, even though he's black", etc. In fact, I stopped seeing my first Chinese teacher here for her continued ignorant remarks.
On the other hand, lots of people are cool and don't seem racist at all. Lots of young people in particular idolize black rap stars and basketball players, and others express hostility to the concept of racism. Many are also open to learning from and about different countries and meeting foreigners of all skin colours. My current Chinese teacher likes to go out of her way to help foreigners, including those from Africa. And unlike Western countries, there is no historical racist baggage or problems of institutionalized racism.
Nevertheless, I think it would take a lot of courage for a black person to come to China and live here. There are still way too many ignorant people, and obviously, not a very large black community to go to for support.
The only racist country and culture in the world is the US!
Thankfully Obama will change all that! Than we can be proud of our country once again.
Not exactly breaking news that Asians aren't too fond of Africans
Or non Asians.
When me and my friend travelled around India last year he received compliments on his beautiful white skin wherever we went. That stopped, however, when we came to Goa and he burned himself red the first day at the beach.
Sad as it is, if you're concerned about racism in China you should probably focus more on that which is being directed at various ethnic minorities. As I understand it, there's also a fair amount of discrimination based on place of origin and dialect, even for Han people. Things can get pretty complicated over there.
But since we're dealing with anecdotes, when I was last in Japan I ran into a young black fellow on his way back to China where he was living. He was raving about how awesome the place was and how great a time he had. So, like with most other things, there are all sorts of experiences.
QuoteLi Wenjuan, Chike's wife, said she thinks racial attitudes are less coarse in Beijing than in Guangzhou, where the commonly used Cantonese term for blacks translates as "black ghosts."
Of course, the common Cantonese term for white translates as "white ghosts" or "pale ghosts" so whatever that says about the Cantonese, it isn't exactly evidence for anti-black prejudice :)
They likee the Alabama black longsnake.
Money quote:
Quote"In my impression, black people, especially Africans, are not clean enough," Chen continued. "To be frank, I just feel black people are too black. Definitely, I wouldn't consider having a black guy as my boyfriend even if he were rich."
:lmfao:
This attitude towards blacks by Chinese isn't that different from how it was in Soviet Union. Soviet Union officially embraced blacks as the victims of imperialism and oppression, but deep down most Russians view blacks, especially African blacks, as little better than monkeys.
Quote from: miglia on November 15, 2009, 12:23:33 PM
When me and my friend travelled around India last year he received compliments on his beautiful white skin wherever we went. That stopped, however, when we came to Goa and he burned himself red the first day at the beach.
:lol: That's funny. FWIW Goa is the only place in India I have any interest in visiting.
Quote from: DGuller on November 15, 2009, 03:40:44 PM
This attitude towards blacks by Chinese isn't that different from how it was in Soviet Union.
Maybe back in Soviet days, but these days Russia sounds like it's a lot more than that and is now dangerous for them.
Untermenschen are always the biggest racists.
As evidenced by some of the posts in this thread.
Quote from: Jacob on November 15, 2009, 04:06:53 PM
As evidenced by some of the posts in this thread.
Danes. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Jacob on November 15, 2009, 04:06:53 PM
As evidenced by some of the posts in this thread.
:unsure:
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 03:34:03 PM
They likee the Alabama black longsnake.
Okay I just figured out that reference.
"No soul-brofah. Too beaucoup!"
Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2009, 04:48:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 03:34:03 PM
They likee the Alabama black longsnake.
Okay I just figured out that reference.
"No soul-brofah. Too beaucoup!"
:)
In my experience, racism does exist in China. For some reason, Chinese are particularly adverse to inter-racial marriages. The darker the skin colour, the less acceptable the marriage is. Marrying a rich caucausian is almost always acceptable. Even a poor white is also fine. Marrying a black is generally not ok, unless the black is rich of course.
Wealth and success are mitigating factors. Chinese have no problem worshipping black idols, e.g. rock stars, sports stars etc. If you are successful, your skin colour doesn't matter. But if you're not, your skin colour will come into play. I.e. a rich black man is preferabe to a poor Han Chinese, but a poor Han Chinese is preferable to a poor black man.
From the article it seems to exist a combination of two factors: racism and.... well, 'whiteism', a taste for pale skins because the poor and the peasants are suntanned (that did indeed exist in Europe for centuries; suntan did become fashionable in the 1920s, and became mainstream only in the 1940s). And I have read many Japanese women still prefer to avoid bronzing.
Quote
"It will be really interesting to see what happens when he comes to visit, because I really think the Chinese have a hard time with it," said Hung. "Nobody has dealt with this question of what this means to our sense of race. It's a kind of self-examination that Chinese — including myself — need to go through. Are we racist?"
Why yes. Yes you are. :P
How is this a shocker? Every culture on earth prefers people who look like them.
Quote from: Valmy on November 16, 2009, 03:28:32 PM
How is this a shocker? Every culture on earth prefers people who look like them.
Except yellow and brown people who prefer white.
It's fucking Canton.
Gawd.
Quote from: Monoriu on November 15, 2009, 09:26:54 PM
Marrying a rich caucausian is almost always acceptable. Even a poor white is also fine.
Which is better though: A poor white or a poor Chinaman? How about a rich white or a rich Chinaman?
Quote from: Neil on November 17, 2009, 10:53:55 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on November 15, 2009, 09:26:54 PM
Marrying a rich caucausian is almost always acceptable. Even a poor white is also fine.
Which is better though: A poor white or a poor Chinaman? How about a rich white or a rich Chinaman?
Thing is, a lot of Chinese don't consider a "poor white" to be possible :lol: