http://books.google.com/books?id=rWsIAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:von+inauthor:Plotho&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&as_brr=0&hl=es#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Carl von Plotho, 'Der Krieg des verbündeten Europa gegen Frankreich im Jahre 1815'. My already poor eyesight is screaming and dying trying to decipher the orders of battle! If you happen to possess a copy of Albert A. Nofi's book on Waterloo, you will see how he tried to decipher them... and failed; Winzingerode, for example, became 'Minzigerd'. And I don't blame him, mind you... :mad:
Now, I'm curious. Is this font so difficult for you as it is for us non-Germans?
Yes, I can. I learnt it mostly from Asterix VI, where they are in the lands of the Goths who all speak in Gothic fonts. I have some old books printed in that kind of lettering, though usually some non-German words (e.g. Ottoman rulers' names, some Latin words etc.) are in "normal" Latin font.
First two paragraphs:
QuoteAn die bereits erschienen drei Theile des Krieges, in den Jahren 1813 und 1814, schließt sich dieser Band, als virter und letzter Theil über den Krieg des verbündeten Europa gegen Frankreich im Jahre 1815 an, und mit ihm ist mein unternommenes Werk vollendet.
Die großen militairischen Begeneheiten der drei historisch unvergeßlichen Jahre (mit Beschränkungen, welche in dem beigegebenen Vorwort des ersten Theils enthalten), habe ich erzählt, und stehe am Ende des glorreichen Zeitabschnittes.
I can read it fluently these days.
P.S.: Early 19th century German was beautiful, and I wish people would still use it. :wub:
And browsing through the online text I'd say that Nofi should have gotten help in reading this. If he failed at deciphering this he should not study those texts in the original as, to be honest, it's pretty plain and legible once you know it.
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 07:58:10 AM
Yes, I can. I learnt it mostly from Asterix VI, where they are in the lands of the Goths who all speak in Gothic fonts. I have some old books printed in that kind of lettering, though usually some non-German words (e.g. Ottoman rulers' names, some Latin words etc.) are in "normal" Latin font.
Ah, yes, I remember Asterix VI (in Spain at least the title was 'Asterix and the Goths'). I read it easily, but I was much younger & the text was translated into Spanish... I wonder if they used this font or a generic 'Germanic' font - I'm going to check it.
Quote from: Alatriste on November 06, 2009, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 07:58:10 AM
Yes, I can. I learnt it mostly from Asterix VI, where they are in the lands of the Goths who all speak in Gothic fonts. I have some old books printed in that kind of lettering, though usually some non-German words (e.g. Ottoman rulers' names, some Latin words etc.) are in "normal" Latin font.
Ah, yes, I remember Asterix VI (in Spain at least the title was 'Asterix and the Goths'). I read it easily, but I was much younger & the text was translated into Spanish... I wonder if they used this font or a generic 'Germanic' font - I'm going to check it.
It was "Asterix und die Goten" in German. Now that you mention it, the German version also had subtitles - which is probably how I picked it up early on.
I have among other things a two-volume Brockhaus Encyclopedia from 1910 (2000 pages) and that one alone makes it worth it. :)
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 09:14:47 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on November 06, 2009, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2009, 07:58:10 AM
Yes, I can. I learnt it mostly from Asterix VI, where they are in the lands of the Goths who all speak in Gothic fonts. I have some old books printed in that kind of lettering, though usually some non-German words (e.g. Ottoman rulers' names, some Latin words etc.) are in "normal" Latin font.
Ah, yes, I remember Asterix VI (in Spain at least the title was 'Asterix and the Goths'). I read it easily, but I was much younger & the text was translated into Spanish... I wonder if they used this font or a generic 'Germanic' font - I'm going to check it.
It was "Asterix und die Goten" in German. Now that you mention it, the German version also had subtitles - which is probably how I picked it up early on.
As in the original French edition.
I can read Fraktur. It takes a minute or two to get used to it again, but then it's just like any other text.
Sütterlin is a pain in the ass to read though.
Quote from: Zanza on November 06, 2009, 10:42:52 AM
Sütterlin is a pain in the ass to read though.
Oh yeah. A (deceased) friend of the family used to write her cards/notes in that shit. I think she was born in 1902?
Quote from: Zanza on November 06, 2009, 10:42:52 AM
Sütterlin is a pain in the ass to read though.
:yes: As Syt said, it makes for some awful handwriting.
Oh yes, I have an original collection of Felix Dahn books "Ein Kampf um Rom" that I read as a child, though I think I was the only kid in school that could read it. It is much prettier than modern writing.
Fraktur is easy to read. Handwritings from that era, usually before Sütterlin was introduced, are a major pain in the butt. Doing a bit of genealogic research and I really hate to decipher it.
Quote from: Zanza on November 06, 2009, 10:41:12 AM
I can read Fraktur. It takes a minute or two to get used to it again, but then it's just like any other text.
Same here. How anyone who actually tried could "fail to decipher" it is beyond me.
I can read it, but it is tedious. However, I've never set out to learn Gothic script specifically before.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg14.imageshack.us%2Fimg14%2F9792%2Fkurrent.jpg&hash=3213a050ef4f7b12794ff6053465e91844a71dc1)
Took me some time to realize that "gion" was "give" :huh: What's the story behind that "e" that looks exactly like "n"?
Wait is this right? "And then annoy everyone elfe (?) with it. Gnihihi" ?
"I think I might give it a try and learn German handwriting. And then annoy everyone else with it. Gnihihi."
That s looking like an f is a bastard. There are several forms of s, the round s at the end of a word or syllable, that f-like s for everywhere else and the ß replacing the double-s.
Why the handwritten e looks almost like the n - no idea.
This looks a lot like standard Polish handwriting
Quote from: Sahib on November 08, 2009, 07:53:48 AM
This looks a lot like standard Polish handwriting
Which is the main reason I can read it. In addition to being in charge of family records in German, my Polish great-grandmother liked to send me letters in a very similar script.
More about Sütterlin (as that style is called):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCtterlin
Closely related to (the more spread) Kurrent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurrent
Thank you everybody. Thanks to you I found this chart
http://www.library.yale.edu/cataloging/music/fraktur.htm
That has made my task more bearable, although I still don't understand how Winzingerode could become Minzingerd (unless Nofi used some OCR program... but then he got a result incredibly good given the circumstances)
I mourn the demise of several stylistic elements of older German (most glaring recent example: using the dative in lieu of the genitive - wtf?). However, the near-extinction of those alternate scripts is not one of them.