Water & energy crisis in Venezuela (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33494234/ns/weather/)
Quote"There's no denying government inefficiency caused this crisis," Lopez said, noting that Venezuela never experienced significant power outages or other problems before Chavez nationalized key electrical companies in 2007.The government says it has spent $16.5 billion on updating the electrical grid since 2002, but only two of about three dozen projects have been fully completed, according to the Web site of the state-run electricity corporation.
Quote from: viper37 on November 02, 2009, 02:30:45 PM
Water & energy crisis in Venezuela (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33494234/ns/weather/)
Quote"There's no denying government inefficiency caused this crisis," Lopez said, noting that Venezuela never experienced significant power outages or other problems before Chavez nationalized key electrical companies in 2007.The government says it has spent $16.5 billion on updating the electrical grid since 2002, but only two of about three dozen projects have been fully completed, according to the Web site of the state-run electricity corporation.
Must be the CIA sabotaging the power grid!
If not, does Chavez have something like a Gitmo detention center where he can send the utility company execs, as punishment for this, which of course makes it look like his failure? :cool:
hmmm... this might be the rebirth of the myth of CIA competence after the debacle of Iraqi MWD.
Quote from: KRonn on November 02, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
Must be the CIA sabotaging the power grid!
No, it's the rich people fault. They wash their car, they take long (>3min) warm showers, they have 2 tvs, and worst of all, they have a pool.
Quote
If not, does Chavez have something like a Gitmo detention center where he can send the utility company execs, as punishment for this, which of course makes it look like his failure? :cool:
Already done, he nationalized the electricity companies in 2007 :)
Quote from: viper37 on November 02, 2009, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: KRonn on November 02, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
Must be the CIA sabotaging the power grid!
No, it's the rich people fault. They wash their car, they take long (>3min) warm showers, they have 2 tvs, and worst of all, they have a pool.
And he's right, no? Poor Pipple hardly use any energy at all.
I don't shower two times, sometimes three times a day.
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 02, 2009, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: KRonn on November 02, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
Must be the CIA sabotaging the power grid!
No, it's the rich people fault. They wash their car, they take long (>3min) warm showers, they have 2 tvs, and worst of all, they have a pool.
And he's right, no? Poor Pipple hardly use any energy at all.
It's not consumption that's causing the outages.
Quote from: citizen k on November 02, 2009, 06:28:59 PM
It's not consumption that's causing the outages.
Chavez thinks it is.
Quote from: citizen k on November 02, 2009, 06:28:59 PM
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 02, 2009, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: KRonn on November 02, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
Must be the CIA sabotaging the power grid!
No, it's the rich people fault. They wash their car, they take long (>3min) warm showers, they have 2 tvs, and worst of all, they have a pool.
And he's right, no? Poor Pipple hardly use any energy at all.
It's not consumption that's causing the outages.
ok. I'll bite. Why does the government, at least here, tell us to curb back electricity use during peak hours? In fact, some plans, reward you for doing laundry at 2 a.m. Why do brownouts always tend to occur on the hottest, most humid days of the summer when everybody, even the poor pipple, have their ACs on?
I'm curious.
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 07:51:15 PM
ok. I'll bite. Why does the government, at least here, tell us to curb back electricity use during peak hours? In fact, some plans, reward you for doing laundry at 2 a.m. Why do brownouts always tend to occur on the hottest, most humid days of the summer when everybody, even the poor pipple, have their ACs on?
I'm curious.
Because you live in a third-world hellhole?
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 07:51:15 PM
ok. I'll bite. Why does the government, at least here, tell us to curb back electricity use during peak hours? In fact, some plans, reward you for doing laundry at 2 a.m. Why do brownouts always tend to occur on the hottest, most humid days of the summer when everybody, even the poor pipple, have their ACs on?
I'm curious.
Because not enough electricity is being produced? :unsure:
Quote from: Neil on November 02, 2009, 08:05:18 PM
Because you live in a third-world hellhole?
Where does he live, Winnipeg?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan
Because not enough electricity is being produced? :unsure:
Not enough electricity is being produced for what?....Oh, yeah...to meet consumption. But people here said, consumption wasn't the problem. Depends how you look at it. Lesser consumption would require lesser usage.
This time, I'm not defending socialism. I'm just saying Chavez isn't lying when he says that the rich peeps over using electricity is the problem. He's not saying that there are other problems as well, I agree. But his statement is not a lie.
And, I'm in the 'Shwa, just outside Toronto. But it's Ontario Hydro that has all these programs to encourage off-peak consumption. I imagine they're nation wide though.
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PM
And, I'm in the 'Shwa, just outside Toronto. But it's Ontario Hydro that has all these programs to encourage off-peak consumption. I imagine they're nation wide though.
I've never heard of them. Either they don't exist or they aren't being marketed very well in Alberta.
Then again, with our atomic reactors coming on line in the years to come, we'll soon have infinite electricity anyways.
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan
Because not enough electricity is being produced? :unsure:
Not enough electricity is being produced for what?....Oh, yeah...to meet consumption. But people here said, consumption wasn't the problem.
Consumption isn't a problem if production is properly managed.
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan
Because not enough electricity is being produced? :unsure:
Depends how you look at it. Lesser consumption would require lesser usage.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PMI'm just saying Chavez isn't lying when he says that the rich peeps over using electricity is the problem. He's not saying that there are other problems as well, I agree. But his statement is not a lie.
It's a lie because usage/consumption is
not the problem.
This is not the wrongest Hugo has ever been. A drought is mother nature, it's not mismanagement. The rich are consuming more to start with so it's easier for them to cut back than it is for the poor.
I've been chastised by the OverYi. :cry:
I take everything back Josie. :blush:
Quote from: citizen k on November 03, 2009, 12:26:40 AM
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PMI'm just saying Chavez isn't lying when he says that the rich peeps over using electricity is the problem. He's not saying that there are other problems as well, I agree. But his statement is not a lie.
It's a lie because usage/consumption is not the problem.
It is. If the infrastructure is weak, then over usage is a problem. We can run around this one in circles. Which came first chicken or the egg? Chavez is saying they got more than enough power as long as them rich dudes don't run their A/Cs all the time.
Rich dudes should run their A/C all the time. Otherwise, what is the point of being rich?
I have a hard time believing a rich Venezuelan would not have already used his money to move away.
Quote from: Valmy on November 03, 2009, 09:09:19 AM
I have a hard time believing a rich Venezuelan would not have already used his money to move away.
Some of them are enriched by Chavez's culture of corruption, and so the regime works to their advantage. Also, remember that the Venezuelan idea of 'rich' is roughly the same as the First World's lower-middle class.
The languages of Iberia have sowed ruin and poverty wherever they go.
Quote from: Neil on November 02, 2009, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PM
And, I'm in the 'Shwa, just outside Toronto. But it's Ontario Hydro that has all these programs to encourage off-peak consumption. I imagine they're nation wide though.
I've never heard of them. Either they don't exist or they aren't being marketed very well in Alberta.
Then again, with our atomic reactors coming on line in the years to come, we'll soon have infinite electricity anyways.
Atomic reactors won't help covering peaks. They can't be turned on fast enough.
Baseload plants are cheaper than peak plants per kWh. Less peak consumption also needs less infrastructure. So ideally the consumption rate should be flat to minimize costs, whether in Alberta or Venezuela. That's why as a consumer you are encouraged to do certain tasks at night.
I'll be damned if I have to do laundry at 2am.
*hugs his Hydro powerplants*
You just build enough nuke plants to meet peak needs. Problem solved. Surplus energy can be used for good.
Quote from: The Brain on November 03, 2009, 12:29:30 PM
You just build enough nuke plants to meet peak needs. Problem solved. Surplus energy can be used for good.
Less posting on Languish, more inventing Mr. Fusion for me. KTHX BAI
Quote from: Caliga on November 03, 2009, 12:30:30 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 03, 2009, 12:29:30 PM
You just build enough nuke plants to meet peak needs. Problem solved. Surplus energy can be used for good.
Less posting on Languish, more inventing Mr. Fusion for me. KTHX BAI
Dream on, Kentucky.
We need to invent some super-awesome new kind of battery.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 03, 2009, 12:50:12 PM
We need to invent some super-awesome new kind of battery.
Good idea. CdM, what's the best you've ever seen?
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PM
Not enough electricity is being produced for what?....Oh, yeah...to meet consumption. But people here said, consumption wasn't the problem. Depends how you look at it. Lesser consumption would require lesser usage.
This time, I'm not defending socialism. I'm just saying Chavez isn't lying when he says that the rich peeps over using electricity is the problem. He's not saying that there are other problems as well, I agree. But his statement is not a lie.
And, I'm in the 'Shwa, just outside Toronto. But it's Ontario Hydro that has all these programs to encourage off-peak consumption. I imagine they're nation wide though.
A private or public electricity company will adapt to the increase in demand. They anticipate the demand, so they produce more electricity (more power plants, more damns, etc.).
I've never had a power outage because of high demand here (wich is in winter).
And of course, every company will encourage you to reduce your electricity consumption, because they don't need to invest in new plants to produce energy, because they can sell it to someone else at a higher price, etc, etc, that's normal.
What is not normal is that:
a- a oil producing country needs to import oil after nationalizing it's oil companies.
b- a resourceful country like Venezuela needs to shut the power after nationalizing electricity companies.
Quote from: Iormlund on November 03, 2009, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: Neil on November 02, 2009, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: Josephus on November 02, 2009, 10:18:41 PM
And, I'm in the 'Shwa, just outside Toronto. But it's Ontario Hydro that has all these programs to encourage off-peak consumption. I imagine they're nation wide though.
I've never heard of them. Either they don't exist or they aren't being marketed very well in Alberta.
Then again, with our atomic reactors coming on line in the years to come, we'll soon have infinite electricity anyways.
Atomic reactors won't help covering peaks. They can't be turned on fast enough.
Baseload plants are cheaper than peak plants per kWh. Less peak consumption also needs less infrastructure. So ideally the consumption rate should be flat to minimize costs, whether in Alberta or Venezuela. That's why as a consumer you are encouraged to do certain tasks at night.
That's why the key is massive overproduction and exporting the excess.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 03, 2009, 12:32:32 AM
This is not the wrongest Hugo has ever been. A drought is mother nature, it's not mismanagement. The rich are consuming more to start with so it's easier for them to cut back than it is for the poor.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3495 (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3495)
http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/electricity_production.html (http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/electricity_production.html)
Venezuela was supposed to increase its electricity production, but it failed miserably. And 30% of it comes from fossile fuels.
Here is the consumption:
http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/electricity_consumption.html
From the moment it was nationalized, electricity consumption and production dropped.
Quote from: Neil on November 03, 2009, 01:32:56 PM
That's why the key is massive overproduction and exporting the excess.
Doesn't sound very practical. Who are you going to export it to at 3 AM?
Quote from: viper37 on November 03, 2009, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 03, 2009, 12:32:32 AM
This is not the wrongest Hugo has ever been. A drought is mother nature, it's not mismanagement. The rich are consuming more to start with so it's easier for them to cut back than it is for the poor.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3495 (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3495)
http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/electricity_production.html (http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/electricity_production.html)
Venezuela was supposed to increase its electricity production, but it failed miserably. And 30% of it comes from fossile fuels.
Here is the consumption:
http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/electricity_consumption.html
From the moment it was nationalized, electricity consumption and production dropped.
Production looks like it went up in 07/08 on that chart.
Quote from: Iormlund on November 04, 2009, 02:59:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 03, 2009, 01:32:56 PM
That's why the key is massive overproduction and exporting the excess.
Doesn't sound very practical. Who are you going to export it to at 3 AM?
Venezuela, from the sounds of it.
Quote from: The Brain on November 03, 2009, 01:00:44 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 03, 2009, 12:50:12 PM
We need to invent some super-awesome new kind of battery.
Good idea. CdM, what's the best you've ever seen?
:lmfao:
Brilliant, are you sure you're not a native speaker?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 05, 2009, 12:32:34 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 03, 2009, 01:00:44 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 03, 2009, 12:50:12 PM
We need to invent some super-awesome new kind of battery.
Good idea. CdM, what's the best you've ever seen?
:lmfao:
Brilliant, are you sure you're not a native speaker?
Positive. :mad: