There is an interesting posting at JMS's "vanity press" site that include4s his very first written thoughts on what would become babylon 5, see http://www.cafepress.com/thejoestore/6587738 (http://www.cafepress.com/thejoestore/6587738).
It is kind of interesting to see how much of what he originally conceived eventually made it on the screen, and what questions he had. I thought it was particularly interesting that he noted that the commander of the station shouldn't be both a "war hero" and a "war survivor" because there was a "big difference" - and then chose to have the two commanders be one each, when it turned out he needed two commanders.
Dunno how long that page is gonna stay up, so if you are a fan you might want to look pretty soon.
Wow. That is pretty cool. Impresisve how much of the basic structure was there, right down to the character and changes in character of who would later be Delenn and G'kar.
That was my thought as well - it is very close to what JMS's final product wound up being.
A couple of interesting what-ifs though:
-a more documentary style (only mere hints of this in the series - the intro voice-over is done in the part tense and INN, but nothing else)
-telepaths as cyborgs? controlled by an AI?
-Londo as a drug addict?
More or less everything is there, except for the lesbian character. I think.
Quote from: Delirium on March 27, 2009, 06:06:31 PM
More or less everything is there, except for the lesbian character. I think.
I'm only recently viewed seasons 1-3. 4-5 I'll pick up one of these days.
There are hints Ivanova is a Lesbian in those first three, I think confirmed later on.
It's like an actual writer was responsible for it...
Quote from: Delirium on March 27, 2009, 06:06:31 PM
More or less everything is there, except for the lesbian character. I think.
From what I remember, Ivanova and Talia almost had a relationship.
Just double-checked - hints of a lesbian relatinship with Talia, but nothing more.
Those weren't obvious hints, I never noticed them. Ivanova had a sort of fling with a male character.
Yeah I think Ivanova was probably bisexual.
Quote from: Delirium on March 27, 2009, 06:19:18 PM
Those weren't obvious hints, I never noticed them. Ivanova had a sort of fling with a male character.
Susan, in the Minbari rebirth ceremony, admits to Delenn "I think I loved Talia".
She was pursued by Marcus, but I don't think she ever reciprocated.
And I'm not putting up a spoiler warning for a show that ended 10 years ago.
Heh, probably true about spoilers. Don't think she was bisexual though.
Quote from: Delirium on March 27, 2009, 06:22:45 PM
Heh, probably true about spoilers. Don't think she was bisexual though.
Agree. Probably full lesbian but in denial.
I thought she said she loved Marcus.
It's a been a while since I watched it though.
Quote from: Cerr on March 27, 2009, 06:27:10 PM
I thought she said she loved Marcus.
It's a been a while since I watched it though.
Maybe - I haven't gotten up to that part yet.
But if so, it was only after he was dead. Knowing someone sacrificed their life to save your own is probably a different kind of love.
Quote from: Delirium on March 27, 2009, 06:19:18 PM
Those weren't obvious hints, I never noticed them. Ivanova had a sort of fling with a male character.
Talia and Ivanova slept together. The sex was not shown, but it was there, and JMS has confirmed it (as well as having Ivanova admit it to Delenn).
Pretty much everythong he conceived eventually made it into the story. Even the drug user bit (Franklin and stims). garibaldi is an alcoholic. The rise of fascism. The phrases "No one [here] is exactly [whom] they seem" and "stubborn nobility."
It is interesting to see what happens when characters serve a purpose, and not the other way around.
Quote from: Barrister on March 27, 2009, 05:59:58 PM
-Londo as a drug addict?
He was a drunk, both at the beginning and in the end. Garibaldi is also an alcoholic, and Franklin was a drug addict.
I miss that show. Nothing ever came close to it in terms of story telling. Well, close to it was DS9. But far from equal.
JMS is God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Michael_Straczynski
A partial chronological list of Straczynski's other television credits:
* He-Man and the Masters of the Universe - Staff Writer; specifically writing 8 episodes
* She-Ra: Princess of Power - Staff Writer
* Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors - Staff Writer, specifically writing 11-14 episodes
* The Real Ghostbusters - Story Editor; writer of 21 episodes and one Special
* Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future - Executive Story Editor; writer of 13 episodes
* The New Twilight Zone - Story Editor; writer of 11 episodes
* Jake and the Fatman - Executive Story Editor; writer of 5 episodes
* Murder, She Wrote - Co-Producer; writer of 7 episodes
* Walker Texas Ranger - Supervising Producer; writer of 1 episode (left show to do B5)[13].
I really liked his work on the Ghostbusters series as a kid (and hated the Slimer & The Ghostbusters run of the show). And I was rather surprised to see his name in the opening titles when I caught a re-run of He-Man a while back.
Also, I enjoyed Captain Power a fair bit as a kid.
Quote from: viper37 on March 28, 2009, 12:53:54 PM
I miss that show. Nothing ever came close to it in terms of story telling. Well, close to it was DS9. But far from equal.
JMS is God.
I agree, JMS greatly improved upon the DS9 concept. However, I do find that the show loses its magic after a number of repeats.
I saw Babylon5 ages ago.
If I want to re-visit what should I know? (Fillers etc)
Quote from: DGuller on March 28, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
I agree, JMS greatly improved upon the DS9 concept.
you sir, are trolling.
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 28, 2009, 02:20:31 PM
I saw Babylon5 ages ago.
If I want to re-visit what should I know? (Fillers etc)
http://www.ntua.gr/lurk/ (http://www.ntua.gr/lurk/)
fuck, most of that site is down :(
Quote from: viper37 on March 28, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 28, 2009, 02:20:31 PM
I saw Babylon5 ages ago.
If I want to re-visit what should I know? (Fillers etc)
http://www.ntua.gr/lurk/ (http://www.ntua.gr/lurk/)
fuck, most of that site is down :(
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html (http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html) is the current home of the Lurker's Guide.
Tried Pm'ing you grumbler. What is the exact order I should watch the movies in to keep continuity? Deep into the second season at the moment..
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html
Quote from: viper37 on May 23, 2009, 03:44:03 PM
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html
:yes:
Just caught the pilot on Hulu. Interesting show, looking forward to seeing more.
Yeah I'm in the middle of the second season... The war has made it a lot more interesting.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 23, 2009, 10:46:16 PM
Just caught the pilot on Hulu. Interesting show, looking forward to seeing more.
You liked the pilot? I didn't! :lol: It is almost certainly the worst episode of the series, between the cartboard sets and wooden acting. The show is much better in season one, and then much better again in seasons 2-5. The movie "In the Beginning" was intended as a kinda replacement for the pilot.
Series 1 it was awful.
Series 2...Myeh. Tolerable. Needs more explosions.
Finished season 4......
Not sure if I want to watch season 5 and the movies plus Crusade after "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". :mellow:
Wactch "In the Beginning" at the least, of the movies.
Yeah I did already, that and hyperspace. Tried to watch them in chronological order.
Quote from: Alcibiades on June 01, 2009, 08:15:15 PM
Finished season 4......
Not sure if I want to watch season 5 and the movies plus Crusade after "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". :mellow:
While interesting, you should almost treat that episode as not having occurred. The reason series finale is worth it. :wub:
I'd like to see the Sci Fi channel play the Babylon series. They do need to spice up their showings, lose the wrestling and ghost hunter stuff, and put on more of the good sci fi. B5, Farscape and a few others would be good.
German SciFi is currently showing B5 during weekdays (two episodes at primetime). I tune in occasionally for a few moments to remind myself of how horrid the German dubbing is.
Can't understand why they (SciFi) don't show more shows bi-lingually (i.e. you can choose between English and German). They did that for Farscape for some reason, but no other show.
Quote from: garbon on June 01, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: Alcibiades on June 01, 2009, 08:15:15 PM
Finished season 4......
Not sure if I want to watch season 5 and the movies plus Crusade after "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". :mellow:
While interesting, you should almost treat that episode as not having occurred. The reason series finale is worth it. :wub:
:yes: DoFS was a quickie ep made when they got the fifth season and couldn't show the already-filmed
Sleeping in Light (the finale) at the end of Season 4. As you saw, they also "cheated" and got some of the S5 filming done early using the special budget they got for DoFS.
Don't cheat yourself out of seeing what happens to everybody.
Quote from: KRonn on June 01, 2009, 09:24:17 PM
I'd like to see the Sci Fi channel play the Babylon series. They do need to spice up their showings, lose the wrestling and ghost hunter stuff, and put on more of the good sci fi. B5, Farscape and a few others would be good.
They're SyFy now. There's gonna be even more ghost hunter type programing in the future.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on June 02, 2009, 06:42:29 AM
SyFy
:bleeding:
The channel wanted everyone to know that it has jumped the shark, I think.
Second half of Season 5 is worth it. First half is meh.
B5 needed a Bester spin-off.
Quote from: Monoriu on June 02, 2009, 09:02:30 AM
Second half of Season 5 is worth it. First half is meh.
That's my recollection of it as well. IMO, the first half of season 5 is even worse than season 1, simply because season 1 at least sets you up for the later drama.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 02, 2009, 09:09:30 AM
B5 needed a Bester spin-off.
The very next episode of Crusade that was to be filmed was a Bester episode. The story was pretty cool, too. Gideon was going to have to protect Bester from Garibaldi in order to get some vital info only Bester had, and LT Matheson was going to have to go along with it, even though he hated Bester.
Fucking TNT! :ultra:
Quote from: grumbler on June 02, 2009, 09:20:18 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 02, 2009, 09:09:30 AM
B5 needed a Bester spin-off.
The very next episode of Crusade that was to be filmed was a Bester episode. The story was pretty cool, too. Gideon was going to have to protect Bester from Garibaldi in order to get some vital info only Bester had, and LT Matheson was going to have to go along with it, even though he hated Bester.
Fucking TNT! :ultra:
The answer is B5 relaunch novels.
Quote from: DGuller on June 02, 2009, 09:18:03 AM
That's my recollection of it as well. IMO, the first half of season 5 is even worse than season 1, simply because season 1 at least sets you up for the later drama.
Disagree, by and large. It is true that the Byron arc was way too long, and that
The View from the Gallery was probably the worst-acted episode (even beyond the Grail pale), but there were some pretty decent episodes in there as well. The worst half-dozen Season 1 eps were worse than the worst half-dozen Season 5 eps, I would say.
Quote from: Monoriu on June 02, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
The answer is B5 relaunch novels.
Not gonna happen, for a long time, at least. JMS is busy doing much more lucrative things, and everyone knows how badly the books he was uninvolved in sucked.
Quote from: grumbler on June 02, 2009, 09:25:28 AM
Not gonna happen, for a long time, at least. JMS is busy doing much more lucrative things, and everyone knows how badly the books he was uninvolved in sucked.
The Psi-Corps trilogy was great. I don't know if he was involved or not, though.
Quote from: viper37 on June 02, 2009, 09:31:17 AM
The Psi-Corps trilogy was great. I don't know if he was involved or not, though.
He wrote the outlines for all three trilogies and for
To Dream in the City of Sorrows, and the background for
The Shadow Within.
Hey kids, I just finished watching B5 again up to the end of Season 4, shich does have a nice ending point of sorts.
I'm equivocating on buying Season 5 though at full price. It's been 10+ years since I saw it. I seem to remember the last episode was great, the storyline with Londo falling under Shadow control was decent, and a lot of boring shite with Garibaldi on Mars and a telepath storyline that didn't go anywhere.
Any thoughts?
I don't think you're going to miss much if you don't watch season 5. The series effectively petered out creatively at season 4, except for maybe some minor subplots like Garibaldi losing the plot.
Quote from: Barrister on July 23, 2009, 05:22:29 PM
Hey kids, I just finished watching B5 again up to the end of Season 4, shich does have a nice ending point of sorts.
I'm equivocating on buying Season 5 though at full price. It's been 10+ years since I saw it. I seem to remember the last episode was great, the storyline with Londo falling under Shadow control was decent, and a lot of boring shite with Garibaldi on Mars and a telepath storyline that didn't go anywhere.
Any thoughts?
Garibaldi on Mars is in Season 4. In Season 5 he falls off the wagon in a fairly pedestrian series of episodes (which unhappily coincide with the telepath arc, which is itself tiresomely long). Season 5 gets good again towards the end (the Centauri Prime arc) and then settles for a couple of goodbye eps and the finale. I'd rate it above season 1 but well below the other seasons. Still, there are about 8 very good episodes out of 22, and only about 4 really bad ones (including two real stinkers). I'd say give it a shot if you find it on sale but don't pay full retail for it.
Still haven't gotten around to season 5 :blush: