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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2009, 09:12:12 PM

Poll
Question: Who was the greater visionary?
Option 1: Jules Verne votes: 25
Option 2: HG Wells votes: 19
Title: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2009, 09:12:12 PM
Both 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and The Time Machine are on cable on different channels.  Hence, the reason for the question.

Choose and post your reasons.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Scipio on October 09, 2009, 09:20:32 PM
Jules Verne.  French, not a communist, and was not egotistical enough to lose Rebecca Wells.

Also, better in translation than Wells is in the original.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2009, 09:30:56 PM
Wells. Verne was too grounded in actual science.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Razgovory on October 09, 2009, 10:17:18 PM
I thought Verne was really dry.  He spent a lot of  time talking about damned fish.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 09, 2009, 10:29:23 PM
HG because he got lot's of chicks and because Verne was just a frog in the end.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: dps on October 09, 2009, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 09, 2009, 09:30:56 PM
Wells. Verne was too grounded in actual science.

My first thought was Wells, but in thinking about it, I wasn't sure why.  I think you nailed it, though.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: The Larch on October 10, 2009, 12:22:33 AM
Verne, because he actually predicted things that ended up appearing. And because he included my hometown in 20.000 leagues under the sea.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: garbon on October 10, 2009, 12:44:33 AM
Verne! Plus I like Martha Wells better than H.G.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: citizen k on October 10, 2009, 12:56:59 AM
Wells, because he predicted modern warfare.
See: The Shape of Things to Come

Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2009, 01:22:56 AM
Quickly voted Verne, but now doubt is eating away at me. :(
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Razgovory on October 10, 2009, 03:49:55 AM
Quote from: citizen k on October 10, 2009, 12:56:59 AM
Wells, because he predicted modern warfare.
See: The Shape of Things to Come



Is that the one with the air commies?
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 10, 2009, 05:54:09 AM
Pretty close but went for Wells. As others have said I think Verne focussed very much on the science; whereas Wells went deeper into the social consequences.

Two excellent and approachable authors, I read them a lot between 14-18 years old. Is it still the case that the average teenage nerd reads a lot of their output?
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Alatriste on October 10, 2009, 06:02:15 AM
Apples and oranges. Most of Verne novels happen in the present or only a few years in the future, most of Wells works either happen in a distant future or include aliens (as far as I know, Verne never used aliens). Voted Verne, because I like his solid scientific base.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Agelastus on October 10, 2009, 06:16:59 AM
Jules Verne.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Alexandru H. on October 10, 2009, 07:52:10 AM
Voted for Jules Verne. I basically grew up with his books. Great, Great author.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Jaron on October 10, 2009, 08:03:41 AM
Vernes writing is very dry, boring and hard to read.

HG is the shit.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Josquius on October 10, 2009, 08:04:31 AM
Wells all the way for me.
His stuff was both more representative of science fiction to come and of real world developments, depending on his mood. (land dreadnoughts).


Quote from: Scipio on October 09, 2009, 09:20:32 PM
Jules Verne.  French, not a communist, and was not egotistical enough to lose Rebecca Wells.

Also, better in translation than Wells is in the original.
Wells wasn't communist either, he was a Fabian  :bowler:
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Sheilbh on October 10, 2009, 08:04:46 AM
I'm not sure.  I prefer Verne, though, so I voted for him.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Sheilbh on October 10, 2009, 08:05:15 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 10, 2009, 08:04:31 AM
a Fabian :english:
:mmm: :wub:
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Scipio on October 10, 2009, 08:20:38 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 10, 2009, 08:04:31 AM
Wells all the way for me.
His stuff was both more representative of science fiction to come and of real world developments, depending on his mood. (land dreadnoughts).


Quote from: Scipio on October 09, 2009, 09:20:32 PM
Jules Verne.  French, not a communist, and was not egotistical enough to lose Rebecca Wells.

Also, better in translation than Wells is in the original.
Wells wasn't communist either, he was a Fabian  :bowler:
Degrees of potty leftist thinking don't matter.  Also, Wells was an egomaniac.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2009, 08:33:14 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 10, 2009, 05:54:09 AM
Is it still the case that the average teenage nerd reads a lot of their output?

Unfortunately, no.  It's all Turtledove now.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: grumbler on October 10, 2009, 10:15:21 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 10, 2009, 06:02:15 AM
... Voted Verne, because I like his solid scientific base.
Not exactly "solid" given the hollow earth and temperatures not rising with depth (despite Verne knowing that all scientific data said this was true).

I would agree that Verne ignored more science than Wells ever knew, but his style is so dull it is almost like he was deliberately making his books unreadable (which he wasn't, of course - he wrote exactly like readers of his time expected a writer to write, but still...)
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: PDH on October 10, 2009, 10:55:12 AM
Which one was less gay?
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2009, 10:58:05 AM
After not very much reflection, I voted HG Wells, as he's considered the father of modern wargaming.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Threviel on October 10, 2009, 12:02:24 PM
I heard somewhere that the reason that Verne isn't so popular in the english-speaking world is that the translations are atrociously bad.

Any truth to that?
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 10, 2009, 02:09:43 PM
Voted Verne, though I'm entirely under read in both their Canons. Couldn't get into either as a kid, and have never really had an interest in looking back.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 10, 2009, 02:22:57 PM
Quote from: Threviel on October 10, 2009, 12:02:24 PM
I heard somewhere that the reason that Verne isn't so popular in the english-speaking world is that the translations are atrociously bad.

Any truth to that?
If you mean the translations suck out whatever life was in the words then yes.  Yes, there is.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Razgovory on October 10, 2009, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: Threviel on October 10, 2009, 12:02:24 PM
I heard somewhere that the reason that Verne isn't so popular in the english-speaking world is that the translations are atrociously bad.

Any truth to that?

It's possible.  I just know he's really dull.  At least the copy of 20,000 leagues under the sea I had was.  It's the only one I've read.  I've read a few of Welles (Time machine, War of the Worlds, a few short stories.)
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2009, 04:13:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 10, 2009, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: Threviel on October 10, 2009, 12:02:24 PM
I heard somewhere that the reason that Verne isn't so popular in the english-speaking world is that the translations are atrociously bad.

Any truth to that?

It's possible.  I just know he's really dull.  At least the copy of 20,000 leagues under the sea I had was.  It's the only one I've read.  I've read a few of Welles (Time machine, War of the Worlds, a few short stories.)

Classics Illustrated is your friend. I used to read these like candy a a kid.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2FCIJV.jpg&hash=fcd0952f6d29f63e8c0bf40af5d0d7c7601fb2bb)
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Alexandru H. on October 10, 2009, 04:25:38 PM
Verne is not boring at all.

Ok, some novels are. But some are worthy of reading even today. Like "Captain Hatteras", "Hector Servadac", "The Lighthouse at the End of the World", "The Golden Volcano" or "Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea".

Unfortunately, many are indeed quite boring for the modern-day reader. In this category are some of his famous works: "In Search of the Castaways", "Eight Hundred Leagues on the Amazon" etc...
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 10, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
Verne bien sûr
Reading it in the original text helps...
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: katmai on October 10, 2009, 05:10:24 PM
HG all the way.

Jules sucks a big one.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Slargos on October 10, 2009, 05:12:06 PM
Greater as in "who made the most grandiose speculative prose" or "who was more accurate in their predictions"?

Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Ideologue on October 10, 2009, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 10, 2009, 03:49:55 AM
Quote from: citizen k on October 10, 2009, 12:56:59 AM
Wells, because he predicted modern warfare.
See: The Shape of Things to Come



Is that the one with the air commies?

Yes, iirc.  He predicted air warfare about as well as Douhet did. :lol:
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: grumbler on October 10, 2009, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on October 10, 2009, 04:25:38 PM
Verne is not boring at all.

Ok, some novels are. But some are worthy of reading even today. Like "Captain Hatteras", "Hector Servadac", "The Lighthouse at the End of the World", "The Golden Volcano" or "Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea".

Unfortunately, many are indeed quite boring for the modern-day reader. In this category are some of his famous works: "In Search of the Castaways", "Eight Hundred Leagues on the Amazon" etc...
Verne wayyyy over-describes by modern literary standards.  His imagination was excellent, but his style didn't have any legs at all.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Razgovory on October 10, 2009, 10:56:07 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 10, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
Verne bien sûr
Reading it in the original text helps...

But it's in a dead language...
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Valmy on October 10, 2009, 11:08:27 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 10, 2009, 12:22:33 AM
Verne, because he actually predicted things that ended up appearing.

Verne for the same reason.

Oh and because he was :frog: so therefore superior in all things.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: DontSayBanana on October 11, 2009, 01:41:02 AM
Also underread in both Verne and Wells, but the style of Verne's derivative works pwns that of Wells'. :contract:
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Null vote: Ayn Rand's visions have come to pass. Wells and Verne were mere ham and eggers when it came to predicting the future.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2009, 01:51:50 PM
Can't we just ban all suck puppets?
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2009, 01:54:13 PM
Ban sugar gliders too while we're at it.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Martinus on October 11, 2009, 01:55:02 PM
Ban strawmen!
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 02:05:26 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 11, 2009, 01:54:13 PM
Ban sugar gliders too while we're at it.

:lmfao:
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2009, 02:07:12 PM
It is a shame how you carry on.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2009, 02:07:12 PM
It is a shame how you carry on.

Who me?

Thanks for noticing.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2009, 02:14:12 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2009, 02:07:12 PM
It is a shame how you carry on.

Who me?

Thanks for noticing.

Nothing escapes me. No one escapes me.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: DGuller on October 11, 2009, 02:14:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2009, 09:12:12 PM
Both 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and The Time Machine are on cable on different channels.  Hence, the reason for the question.

Choose and post your reasons.
The guy who invented dual tuner DVR is the greatest visionary of them all.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Null vote: Ayn Rand's visions have come to pass. Wells and Verne were mere ham and eggers when it came to predicting the future.

Really? Mind to give us an example? Because last time I checked Atlas hadn't shrugged and übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women 'à la Fountainhead'... Now, talking seriously, I think the biggest success positivism has reached in recent years is inspiring Bioshock, and that, while worthy, isn't terribly serious.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2009, 02:25:55 PM
Farism has a much more solid track record.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: grumbler on October 11, 2009, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Null vote: Ayn Rand's visions have come to pass. Wells and Verne were mere ham and eggers when it came to predicting the future.

Really? Mind to give us an example? Because last time I checked Atlas hadn't shrugged and übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women 'à la Fountainhead'... Now, talking seriously, I think the biggest success positivism has reached in recent years is inspiring Bioshock, and that, while worthy, isn't terribly serious.
I daresay its post was tongue in cheek.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2009, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women 'à la Fountainhead'...

Not when the woman doesn't report it...
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2009, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Null vote: Ayn Rand's visions have come to pass. Wells and Verne were mere ham and eggers when it came to predicting the future.

Really? Mind to give us an example? Because last time I checked Atlas hadn't shrugged and übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women 'à la Fountainhead'... Now, talking seriously, I think the biggest success positivism has reached in recent years is inspiring Bioshock, and that, while worthy, isn't terribly serious.

I wonder.  If Atlas shrugged off the sky wouldn't he be crushed along with the rest of world?
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 11, 2009, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Null vote: Ayn Rand's visions have come to pass. Wells and Verne were mere ham and eggers when it came to predicting the future.

Really? Mind to give us an example? Because last time I checked Atlas hadn't shrugged and übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women 'à la Fountainhead'... Now, talking seriously, I think the biggest success positivism has reached in recent years is inspiring Bioshock, and that, while worthy, isn't terribly serious.
I daresay its post was tongue in cheek.

Its?

:cry:
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: citizen k on October 11, 2009, 02:59:12 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM...übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women
Polanski isn't an übermensch.  :cry:


Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 05:35:57 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 11, 2009, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Null vote: Ayn Rand's visions have come to pass. Wells and Verne were mere ham and eggers when it came to predicting the future.

Really? Mind to give us an example? Because last time I checked Atlas hadn't shrugged and übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women 'à la Fountainhead'... Now, talking seriously, I think the biggest success positivism has reached in recent years is inspiring Bioshock, and that, while worthy, isn't terribly serious.
I daresay its post was tongue in cheek.

Its?

:cry:

I daresay Grumbler thinks you are an A.I. That or perhaps an hermaphrodite (does English grammar use 'its' for bisexual organisms?  :P )
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 05:35:57 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 11, 2009, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Null vote: Ayn Rand's visions have come to pass. Wells and Verne were mere ham and eggers when it came to predicting the future.

Really? Mind to give us an example? Because last time I checked Atlas hadn't shrugged and übermenschen still went to jail if they raped women 'à la Fountainhead'... Now, talking seriously, I think the biggest success positivism has reached in recent years is inspiring Bioshock, and that, while worthy, isn't terribly serious.
I daresay its post was tongue in cheek.

Its?

:cry:

I daresay Grumbler thinks you are an A.I. That or perhaps an hermaphrodite (does English grammar use 'its' for bisexual organisms?  :P )

A.I.?


No; it takes genuine skill and charisma to be this larger than life, even on the internet.  One couldn't stay in character long enough were this one's sock puppet.

Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: grumbler on October 11, 2009, 08:46:14 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 11, 2009, 05:35:57 PM
I daresay Grumbler thinks you are an A.I. That or perhaps an hermaphrodite (does English grammar use 'its' for bisexual organisms?  :P )
For some things gender distinctions are unimportant.  One doesn't refer to n00bs or insects by gender.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2009, 09:04:11 PM
I am pleased with how that turned out.
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2009, 09:06:27 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on October 11, 2009, 07:35:31 PM
No; it takes genuine skill and charisma to be this larger than life, even on the internet.  One couldn't stay in character long enough were this one's sock puppet.

So who are you?
Title: Re: Who was the greater visionary?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 11, 2009, 09:12:09 PM
Quote from: citizen k on October 10, 2009, 12:56:59 AM
Wells, because he predicted modern warfare.
See: The Shape of Things to Come


Ditto