Great rant :lol:
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/popvox/archive/2009/10/02/the-brits-why-they-can-t-be-trusted-with-music.aspx
QuoteThe Brits: Why They Can't Be Trusted With Music
by Simon Barnett
As a Brit who has spent over half his life in the United States, I am frequently cornered by any number of Americans who gushingly admire the so-called genius of the British music scene. "The Beatles man, the best! The Clash, yeah man! The Kinks, that really got me! Morrissey, a true poet man! U2, I love that stuff!"
Right now I suppose it's Coldplay, heirs to the most overrated band in history, U2. Aaah, Coldplay, the latest to regurgitate Sergeant Pepper's-like overproduction (this time even wearing the old military jacket), somehow duping Jay-Z into giving them urban street cred. And, be still my beating heart, that lovable frontman Chris Martin, who does the slightly nervous, tentative, unsure of himself, somewhat creatively tortured, English intellectual thing that is so utterly affected. (I concede it clearly works though, he did get Gwyneth Paltrow. Score one for the lads!)
I hear it all the time: the genius of the U.K. music scene, as if I had something to do with it, and more important, as if I am expected to agree. The truth is, as much as I hate to disappoint, I don't get it—not at all. In fact, I can't stand any of it. Brits are just plain bloody bad at music. Bad at creating it, and bad at choosing it.
What is it about Brits and music that holds Americans in such awe? The accents (talking Brit, yet singing American)? The tiresomely predictable stylings of British vocalists who always choose the contrived off-note, when the correct one would so obviously do? Is it the fake angst? The skinny unhealthiness? The teeth? The woe-is-me struggles they always whine about, but don't really know, as they live in such a comfy nanny state?
Contrary to popular American fawning, I have good reason to believe that the British are quite possibly the least discerning music fans to be found on planet Earth. And I have the data and the proof to back it up. From the land that gave the world the highly dubious "genius" of Coldplay and U2, plus Depeche Mode, Pulp, The Verve, and the tantric school teacher, Mr. Sting (Noooo!), you also have the damning evidence of the consistently worrisome selection of nonsense that has topped the U.K. charts through the years—proof positive that the Brits are a tone deaf bunch, devoid of good taste.
The most recent oddity arrived last month, when 92 year-old Dame Vera Lynn (who was the Lady Gaga of the World War II set), topped the charts with the wartime classic, "We'll Meet Again." Do we have to? Back in March, those edgy hipsters Tom Jones and Robin Gibb teamed up with a couple of TV actors to take the No. 1 spot with a remake of the Dolly Parton song "Islands in the Stream," a tune that, like H1N1, we should all have been working together to eradicate.
The history of the British charts is full of such curiosities, stuff that worked its way to the number one slot that would never be found on the outer limits of the Billboard Top 100. To be fair and balanced here, Americans occasionally pull a wannabe idiotic choice, like "Who Let The Dogs Out," but it was even a bigger hit in the U.K.; it had the entire country woofing. What you have to admire about the Brits is the awe-inspiring consistency and workmanlike reliability of their poor musical taste. It leaves the rest of the world in the dust.
Following Eminem's first U.K. No. 1 with "Stan" in 2000, Mr. Mathers suffered the indignity of being toppled from that throne by none other than Bob the Builder with "Can We Fix It?" Then, as if the British public wanted the world to know it was no fluke, "Bob"—yes, the children's cartoon character—did it again with his follow up "Mambo #5" a year later. And who can forget the Christmas 1980 number by St Winifred's School Choir with "No One Quite Like Grandma"? A track so moving that it could bring a tear to a glass eye.
Back in 1960 (right about the time Frank Sinatra was hitting his vocal stride), Lonnie Donegan wowed the U.K. with that timeless classic, "My Old Man's a Dustman (Ballad of a Refuse Disposal Officer)." Kojak, Telly Savalas, invaded the island in 1975, and irreparably damaged a once-great nation, when in droves, they put "If" on top of the charts. And three years prior to that, a bagpipe number—which was seared onto my then young eardrums—by The Pipes & Drums & Military Band of The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards held the No. 1 spot for 15 painful weeks with "Amazing Grace."
"Do the Bartman" by the Simpsons was the biggest-selling single for a couple of weeks in 1991. Those cultured, well-spoken Brits also bought enough copies of a Teletubbies track around the holidays in 1997 to make that Boxing Day ride home a particularly unpleasant one. October 2002's smash hit was "The Ketchup Song." And perhaps, while not in the entirely bad category, but more in the why? Elvis Presley had three No. 1's in a single month—in 2005.
Of course, being such arbiters of taste, such innovators and trend setters, those Brits were early to recognize the rap movement, so it placed Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby" at No. 1 in 1990. Manchester United, universally hailed as a pretty good soccer team, sang less well, but it was still good enough to become biggest-selling musical act for two weeks in 1994 with "Come On You Reds." In 1993, someone, or something, called Mr. Blobby sang "Mr. Blobby" to the top.
So, the next time you have the urge to tell a Brit how you love all their genius, cutting-edge, oh-so-influential music, check yourself, because it categorically ain't true, as history continues to attest.
Give me Maxwell any time.
The Brits were pretty awesome in the 60s and 70s but they've definitely gone downhill since.
Vera Lynn, the Lady Gaga of the World War II set? Them's fighting words, lad.
Actually the only thing that prevents me ordering fava beans and a nice Chianti is that I concur with him on U2. Most overrated band in history is the least that can be said. But berating British talent for music because some lousy songs topped the charts in a period of several decades is so intellectually dishonest that we should invite Simon Barnett to Languish (I will keep the Chianti in the fridge, just in case he accepts).
Gotta agree. I was gonna respond indignantly by listing a bunch of good modern British bands... but then I realised they are not British, just inspired heavily by the 1970s British music. :P
The charts stopped having any validity long ago.
I fail to see much of a point here though. Novelties never get anywhere in the US?
Most good bands around right now are British.
Or heavily British influenced Americans.
Quote from: Tyr on October 03, 2009, 01:50:46 PM
Most good bands around right now are British.
That's a no.
QuoteOr heavily British influenced Americans.
That's a yes.
Quote from: Alatriste on October 03, 2009, 01:47:32 PM
Vera Lynn, the Lady Gaga of the World War II set? Them's fighting words, lad.
I agree. Comparing some 92 y.o. nobody with the greatest sensation of the 2009's club scene is outrageous.
Quote from: Tyr on October 03, 2009, 01:50:46 PM
The charts stopped having any validity long ago.
I fail to see much of a point here though. Novelties never get anywhere in the US?
I don't remember any novelties ever topping the chart in my lifetime. The closest I can think of is Weird Al's White and Nerdy, which only hit #9.
Quote from: Martinus on October 03, 2009, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 03, 2009, 01:47:32 PM
Vera Lynn, the Lady Gaga of the World War II set? Them's fighting words, lad.
I agree. Comparing some 92 y.o. nobody with the greatest sensation of the 2009's club scene is outrageous.
Well, I'm more than willing to discuss this matter seventy years from now... :P
If people still remembers Lady Gaga and her music in in 2079 like they remember 'The White Cliffs of Dover' and 'We'll meet again' then Lady Gaga will be similar to Vera Lynn. But somehow I doubt a whole generation of Americans, British or Polish will remember so fondly Lady Gaga.
Quote from: Alatriste on October 03, 2009, 02:08:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 03, 2009, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Alatriste on October 03, 2009, 01:47:32 PM
Vera Lynn, the Lady Gaga of the World War II set? Them's fighting words, lad.
I agree. Comparing some 92 y.o. nobody with the greatest sensation of the 2009's club scene is outrageous.
Well, I'm more than willing to discuss this matter seventy years from now... :P
If people still remembers Lady Gaga and her music in in 2079 like they remember 'The White Cliffs of Dover' and 'We'll meet again' then Lady Gaga will be similar to Vera Lynn. But somehow I doubt a whole generation of Americans, British or Polish will remember so fondly Lady Gaga.
I have no idea who Vera Lynn is. :P
You don't remember how she used to say we would meet again, some sunny day? :(
Vera, Vera, what has become of you?
Does anybody else in here feel the way I do?
Speaking of, that list of great British bands should include Pink Floyd. :bowler:
Lady Gaga is great. It took a world war to make Vera immortal. Wasn't worth it.
Lady Gaga is smiling through all the way to the bank.
Quote from: The Brain on October 03, 2009, 02:28:16 PM
Lady Gaga is smiling through all the way to the bank.
Ma ma ma ma ma ma ma mah bank account?
Vera Lynn didn't write her own songs. I rest my case.
I don't see any Irish trying to claim U2 here. :lol:
Quote from: Armyknife on October 03, 2009, 03:47:37 PM
Since when have U2 been a British band, iirc people in Ireland had a small think against the British, 'Brits Out' anyone ? :unsure:
Wasn't the new thread enough?
Sometimes, after being exposed to shitty British bands, I sorta wish the nazis won.
This moron lost any credibility as a music commentator when he quoted the charts as any sort of authority on what is being listened to or bought. For the last twenty years, if not longer, publishers buy up crates of their own singles and other tricks to push them higher up the charts towards No. 1.
I just don't dislike U2 as much as many of you seem to do. The old stuff is pretty good for early 80's, Joshua Tree,Rattle & Hum and Achtung Baby are good late 80's/ early 90's pop. And I thought Zooropa showed they weren't afraid to experiment. Zooropa is actually a pretty good album.
The rest of their stuff is debatable.
This thread is stoking my dislike of Brits. I want to punch a Nigel is the stomach.
A Nigel of the Stomach: The Life and Times of an English Gastroenterologist.
Goddamn fruits.
I like U2 as well. What makes them truly impressive is the fact that the guitarist is playing the exact same part on every song but they still sound good and different.
Quote from: The Brain on October 03, 2009, 02:28:16 PM
Lady Gaga is smiling through all the way to the bank.
She is alright I just sorta figured she was just another talentless construction of the music industry though. We will see.
yeah but Lady gaga has exploding tits! take that Vera Lynn.
good rant. out of fairness, many North Americans have shitty musical tastes as well. I am not sure what that means, other than "many North Americans have shitty musical tastes."
I had to look up "Lady Gaga".
In my opinion, she'll be lucky to be remembered in ten years, let alone seventy.
Quote from: Agelastus on October 03, 2009, 06:10:49 PM
I had to look up "Lady Gaga".
In my opinion, she'll be lucky to be remembered in ten years, let alone seventy.
Filed for history. I shall laugh at you in seventy.
Quote from: The Brain on October 03, 2009, 06:28:06 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 03, 2009, 06:10:49 PM
I had to look up "Lady Gaga".
In my opinion, she'll be lucky to be remembered in ten years, let alone seventy.
Filed for history. I shall laugh at you in seventy.
May we both be around for that to be so. :cheers:
I'm not a huge fan of U2 but considering them part of the British music industry is idiotic.
This is obviously some frivolous pen-for-hire, a prostitute of words who do not mean what he writes. Despite having a sixth of America's population, Britain makes more music worth listening to.
Quote from: miglia on October 03, 2009, 06:59:58 PM
Despite having a sixth of America's population, Britain makes more music worth listening to.
That is completely unverifiable. :contract:
Quote from: citizen k on October 03, 2009, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: miglia on October 03, 2009, 06:59:58 PM
Despite having a sixth of America's population, Britain makes more music worth listening to.
That is completely unverifiable. :contract:
Not the UK's fault that the US can't keep track of their own numbers.
Quote from: miglia on October 03, 2009, 06:59:58 PM
This is obviously some frivolous pen-for-hire, a prostitute of words who do not mean what he writes. Despite having a sixth of America's population, Britain makes more music worth listening to.
:huh:
Firstly, all British rock music has roots in America, cause this is the place where the damn genre was born and spent its infancy.
Secondly, that's still no true no matter how you look at it.
America has Kid Rock. The UK has Queen, Beatles, Stones, Iron Maiden etc etc etc.
The South is the musical centre of the western world. For which your welcome.
It is not automatically incorrect to omit the apostrophe. It is a regionalism.
No, it is incorrect and stupid. Anyway, omitting the apostrophe yields "youre" not "your" you idiot.
:lol:
The e then becomes superfluous and weiiird. I am merely adhering to the orthography I was instructed in.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 03, 2009, 09:21:50 PM
The e then becomes superfluous and weiiird. I am merely adhering to the orthography I was instructed in.
Sins are forgiven, stupid is forever.
This guy's looking for criticism in all the wrong places. The British do not, by any means, have a monopoly on bad pop music- it's just that quality never figures into it when they run the popularity contests of what gets stuck in people's heads or gets played all over the club scene on Friday night because it's got a beat that makes it good dance music.
U2 is overrated, but I lump them into the same dinghy as Nirvana- they're famous and successful because at the end of the day, one can't help but hum that tune, even while thinking about how much one hates or is annoyed by it.
Also, in terms of musical prowess, there's a lot more technical talent to be showcased from that side of the pond. Clapton? Overrated because his songs are catchy. David Gilmour? Forever stuck in the shadow of Pink Floyd while teens play the riff from "Hey, You." (On that, I'm guilty of binging on playing every Floyd song I could learn) Through the 90s and 2000s, I haven't seen as much impressive work come out of Britain, but between the 60s and the 80s, British musicians added a lot to the field of musical techniques while popular American musicians just added a lot of songs to their back catalogs.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 03, 2009, 09:29:54 PMThrough the 90s and 2000s, I haven't seen as much impressive work come out of Britain, but between the 60s and the 80s, British musicians added a lot to the field of musical techniques while popular American musicians just added a lot of songs to their back catalogs.
That's an overgeneralization.
In fact this whole thread is.
Yeah, there's a lot of shit pop coming out of England, but the rest of the world is not immune to that.
Last I checked Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, fucking N'Sync were American.
Crap is universal. If you look hard enough there is some pretty good shit in all that crap, and I'll stop the scatalogical metaphors now. but there is good music coming out of Britain, as much as there is coming out of the USA or Canada or whatever. You may just have to look harder for it. It probably isn't coming from the Major Labels.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 03, 2009, 09:29:54 PM
Clapton? Overrated because his songs are catchy.
BLASPHEMY! :mad: :mad: :mad:
I wouldn't have said Clapton's overrated, but apparently he is by Tim at least.
Quote from: Josephus on October 03, 2009, 10:33:29 PM
That's an overgeneralization.
In fact this whole thread is.
Yeah, there's a lot of shit pop coming out of England, but the rest of the world is not immune to that.
Last I checked Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, fucking N'Sync were American.
Crap is universal. If you look hard enough there is some pretty good shit in all that crap, and I'll stop the scatalogical metaphors now. but there is good music coming out of Britain, as much as there is coming out of the USA or Canada or whatever. You may just have to look harder for it. It probably isn't coming from the Major Labels.
:blink: I'm pretty sure that was the first point I made in my post. And the above may be an overgeneralization, but it was meant as such. I just feel that Brits did more to actually expand the genres themselves, while Americans mostly played around with elements that were already there.
I agree with The Brane that Lady Gaga is great. Otherwise, the article is bologna.
The Brits never could really be trusted with music. The best British composer was a German, after all.
Two faces of Lady Gaga's Poker Face:
Studio version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxtQYFQeNY
Acoustic live version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwdXnlvUe3I
Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
Two faces of Lady Gaga's Poker Face:
Studio version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxtQYFQeNY
This is one of the worst songs I ever heard.
Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
Two faces of Lady Gaga's Poker Face:
Studio version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxtQYFQeNY
Acoustic live version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwdXnlvUe3I
Eh? Chick got some serious game with that voice of hers.....who knew.
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2009, 07:33:46 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
Two faces of Lady Gaga's Poker Face:
Studio version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxtQYFQeNY
This is one of the worst songs I ever heard.
You just hate women.
Quote from: Josephus on October 03, 2009, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 03, 2009, 09:29:54 PMThrough the 90s and 2000s, I haven't seen as much impressive work come out of Britain, but between the 60s and the 80s, British musicians added a lot to the field of musical techniques while popular American musicians just added a lot of songs to their back catalogs.
That's an overgeneralization.
In fact this whole thread is.
Yeah, there's a lot of shit pop coming out of England, but the rest of the world is not immune to that.
Last I checked Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, fucking N'Sync were American.
Crap is universal. If you look hard enough there is some pretty good shit in all that crap, and I'll stop the scatalogical metaphors now. but there is good music coming out of Britain, as much as there is coming out of the USA or Canada or whatever. You may just have to look harder for it. It probably isn't coming from the Major Labels.
Two words: O. Asis.
So fuck you, modern UK music.
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2009, 07:33:46 AM
This is one of the worst songs I ever heard.
Classic example of a good voice destroyed by studio overproduction. I know it's the "in" thing to do (even in some metal!), but I want to hear the vocals, not the synths and filters.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 04, 2009, 10:09:05 AM
Classic example of a good voice destroyed by studio overproduction. I know it's the "in" thing to do (even in some metal!), but I want to hear the vocals, not the synths and filters.
Lady Gaga wouldn't make sense at all without at that. It fits perfectly with her demeanor, attire, and look.
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2009, 12:16:07 PM
Lady Gaga wouldn't make sense at all without at that. It fits perfectly with her demeanor, attire, and look.
And at least two of three of those have nothing to do with audio recording; concerts, maybe, but songs can always be tailored for performance onstage.
Off-Topic, what the hell is up with her and masks? Everything I've seen her in has her starting with a mask, losing it partway, and looking really uncomfortable while not wearing it; in that video for Poker Face, she even starts using her hand as a half-mask.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 04, 2009, 12:24:20 PM
Off-Topic, what the hell is up with her and masks? Everything I've seen her in has her starting with a mask, losing it partway, and looking really uncomfortable while not wearing it; in that video for Poker Face, she even starts using her hand as a half-mask.
In a song explicitly about facial expressions and the lack thereof, is that so surprising? :huh:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 04, 2009, 10:09:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2009, 07:33:46 AM
This is one of the worst songs I ever heard.
Classic example of a good voice destroyed by studio overproduction. I know it's the "in" thing to do (even in some metal!), but I want to hear the vocals, not the synths and filters.
Indeed, that accoustic version was quite 'WTF'....I expected her to be another talentless drone.
And not having heard of her isn't such a big deal. Its only a few months back when she showed up at Glastonbury that I first knew who she was. I'd heard that song a lot before hand (fucking gay Swedes- in the club they just randomly start synchronised dancing to it :bleeding:) but never knew it to be by anyone.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 04, 2009, 05:41:44 PM
In a song explicitly about facial expressions and the lack thereof, is that so surprising? :huh:
But she uses it in
everything, I'm thinking about her performance of "Paparazzi" at the VMAs this year- in fact, a quick scan of some lyrics sites shows that hiding one's own face or trying to read someone else's face is a pretty common theme in her lyrics.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on October 04, 2009, 05:06:50 AM
The Brits never could really be trusted with music. The best British composer was a German, after all.
Also, where is Rex Francorum? I was hoping for another Handel point.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on October 04, 2009, 10:30:18 PM
Also, where is Rex Francorum? I was hoping for another Handel point.
I don't thnk he made the cut over here.
Quote from: katmai on October 04, 2009, 10:41:21 PM
I don't thnk he made the cut over here.
He made a rare post yesterday. Can't remember which thread.
If the Brits haven't moved music on like they did in the 60s-80s, that's because no one has. Apart from endlessly self-referential indie pop, popular music these days seems to be stuck pillaging the 1980s.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 04, 2009, 09:09:02 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 04, 2009, 05:41:44 PM
In a song explicitly about facial expressions and the lack thereof, is that so surprising? :huh:
But she uses it in everything, I'm thinking about her performance of "Paparazzi" at the VMAs this year- in fact, a quick scan of some lyrics sites shows that hiding one's own face or trying to read someone else's face is a pretty common theme in her lyrics.
It's a central part of her style, though. It's like saying you would like to see Liberace without a piano and a rhinestone-studded cape.
Quote from: Cecil on October 04, 2009, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
Two faces of Lady Gaga's Poker Face:
Studio version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxtQYFQeNY
Acoustic live version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwdXnlvUe3I
Eh? Chick got some serious game with that voice of hers.....who knew.
Not that surprising considering she started out as a club/cabaret singer. She reminds me of Liza, actually.
Quote from: Warspite on October 05, 2009, 04:40:13 AM
If the Brits haven't moved music on like they did in the 60s-80s, that's because no one has. Apart from endlessly self-referential indie pop, popular music these days seems to be stuck pillaging the 1980s.
Yeah but that's kinda the point - most of the bands that do this with success today and are new (e.g. Scissor Sisters) are American, even though they
sound British.
To me, it feels strange using Coldplay as the posterboys of "latest big British band", since after them came, off the top of my head, Franz Ferdinand and Arctic Monkeys. Did the writer stop taking references 5 years ago?
Quote from: Martinus on October 05, 2009, 04:34:55 PM
Quote from: Cecil on October 04, 2009, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 04, 2009, 06:02:25 AM
Two faces of Lady Gaga's Poker Face:
Studio version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxtQYFQeNY
Acoustic live version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwdXnlvUe3I
Eh? Chick got some serious game with that voice of hers.....who knew.
Not that surprising considering she started out as a club/cabaret singer. She reminds me of Liza, actually.
What I read is that she started out as session singer and songwriter for hire for music studios, so I agree that there's probably more talent in her as a musician than the act she has. And I say that as someone who fucking hates overproduction and voice distortion in recordings.
Quote from: Warspite on October 05, 2009, 04:40:13 AM
If the Brits haven't moved music on like they did in the 60s-80s, that's because no one has. Apart from endlessly self-referential indie pop, popular music these days seems to be stuck pillaging the 1980s.
Meh. Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, to mention just a couple of superb British groups that rocked the 90s. And that's just in electronic music.
The author is a moron.
Kings of Leon is still #1 in the USA, atleast according to Ryan Seacrest(whatever) show.
Urg.
Quote from: Iormlund on October 06, 2009, 01:46:10 AM
Meh. Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, to mention just a couple of superb British groups that rocked the 90s. And that's just in electronic music.
The author is a moron.
Electronic music sucks.
:wub: Another of the Lady Gaga songs I like: Paparazzi
Studio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glMjmvF_l6Y
Acoustic live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP8SrlbpJ5A
NB I think the studio versions are great. But certain h8ers seem to have a problem with them... <_<