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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: CountDeMoney on September 30, 2009, 07:40:01 PM

Title: DB Cooper
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 30, 2009, 07:40:01 PM
Well? Did he survive the jump?  I don't believe he did.

QuoteOn a cold November night 36 years ago, in the driving wind and rain, somewhere between southern Washington state and just north of Portland, Oregon, a man calling himself Dan Cooper parachuted out of a plane he'd just hijacked clutching a bag filled with $200,000 in stolen cash.

Who was Cooper? Did he survive the jump? And what happened to the loot, only a small part of which has ever surfaced?

It's a mystery, frankly. We've run down thousands of leads and considered all sorts of scenarios. And amateur sleuths have put forward plenty of their own theories. Yet the case remains unsolved.

Would we still like to get our man? Absolutely. And we have reignited the case—thanks to a Seattle case agent named Larry Carr and new technologies like DNA testing.

QuoteA few things to keep in mind, according to Special Agent Carr:

    * Cooper was no expert skydiver. "We originally thought Cooper was an experienced jumper, perhaps even a paratrooper," says Special Agent Carr. "We concluded after a few years this was simply not true. No experienced parachutist would have jumped in the pitch-black night, in the rain, with a 200-mile-an-hour wind in his face, wearing loafers and a trench coat. It was simply too risky. He also missed that his reserve chute was only for training and had been sewn shut—something a skilled skydiver would have checked."
    * The hijacker had no help on the ground, either. To have utilized an accomplice, Cooper would've needed to coordinate closely with the flight crew so he could jump at just the right moment and hit the right drop zone. But Cooper simply said, "Fly to Mexico," and he had no idea where he was when he jumped. There was also no visibility of the ground due to cloud cover at 5,000 feet.
    * We have a solid physical description of Cooper. "The two flight attendants who spent the most time with him on the plane were interviewed separately the same night in separate cities and gave nearly identical descriptions," says Carr. "They both said he was about 5'10" to 6', 170 to 180 pounds, in his mid-40s, with brown eyes. People on the ground who came into contact with him also gave very similar descriptions." 

And what of some of the names pegged as Cooper? None have panned out. Duane Weber, who claimed to be Cooper on his deathbed, was ruled out by DNA testing (we lifted a DNA sample from Cooper's tie in 2001). Kenneth Christiansen, named in a recent magazine article, didn't match the physical description and was a skilled paratrooper. Richard McCoy, who died in 1974, also didn't match the description and was at home the day after the hijacking having Thanksgiving dinner with his family in Utah, an unlikely scenario unless he had help.

QuoteAs many agents before him, Carr thinks it highly unlikely that Cooper survived the jump. "Diving into the wilderness without a plan, without the right equipment, in such terrible conditions, he probably never even got his chute open."
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on September 30, 2009, 07:43:04 PM
Jumping out of an airplane with a the parachute sewn close does make it harder to survive.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 30, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
Don't forget, a boy found some of the $20 bills positively identified from Cooper's haul on the bank of the Columbia River in 1980.
Quite frankly, where he jumped is such a remote wilderness, his body would most likely never be found even if he had jumped yesterday.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on September 30, 2009, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 30, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
Don't forget, a boy found some of the $20 bills positively identified from Cooper's haul on the bank of the Columbia River in 1980.
Quite frankly, where he jumped is such a remote wilderness, his body would most likely never be found even if he had jumped yesterday.

Yeah, it took a year to find that Fosset guy and he had a whole airplane with him.  And he it was in the desert.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: dps on September 30, 2009, 08:43:00 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 30, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
Don't forget, a boy found some of the $20 bills positively identified from Cooper's haul on the bank of the Columbia River in 1980.

That's the only real evidence either way that I'm aware of.  The conditions that he jumped in, and him not being an experienced skydiver, means that he'd have to have been lucky to survive, but aren't evidence that he didn't.  The money found on the riverbank means that either

A) he didn't make it out alive,

B) he made it, but lost all or some of his ill-gotten gains on the way, or

C) he made it, and deliberately "lost" some of the money to make it look like he didn't survive.

I would consider A the most likely of those.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on September 30, 2009, 09:12:29 PM
He's actually Roman Polanski.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Jaron on September 30, 2009, 09:15:26 PM
If that was true there'd have been a trail of 20 dollar bills back to his cabin to lure the stray teenager camper to Camp Polanski.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on September 30, 2009, 09:24:39 PM
Quote from: Jaron on September 30, 2009, 09:15:26 PM
If that was true there'd have been a trail of 20 dollar bills back to his cabin to lure the stray teenager camper to Camp Polanski.

how do you know there wasn't? maybe if they find the cabin, they'll find the loot and the skeletons of his sex slaves that he forgot to feed before skipping the country. Also I tthink it's pretty obvious Polanski was also the Lindbergh baby.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Agelastus on September 30, 2009, 09:25:05 PM
Fuck's sake, can we not have Polanski polluting every thread! :mad:
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on September 30, 2009, 09:32:07 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on September 30, 2009, 09:25:05 PM
Fuck's sake, can we not have Polanski polluting every thread! :mad:

only if you get rid of yr dorky avatar.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on August 03, 2011, 09:12:53 PM
Story has come up again.  FBI says they have a new lead.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Ideologue on August 03, 2011, 09:32:51 PM
D.B. Cooper was Adam West.  We've known this for twelve years.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Caliga on August 04, 2011, 06:23:52 AM
I read an article about the new lead, but I don't buy it.  I agree with Money that Cooper didn't survive the jump, and his skeleton is probably in the middle of some vast wilderness, where animals have long since scattered the bones by now.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 04, 2011, 06:38:04 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on September 30, 2009, 09:32:07 PM
only if you get rid of yr dorky avatar.

Seconded.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Warspite on August 04, 2011, 07:28:30 AM
He said "Fly to Mexico", but jumped out over the Pacific northwest?
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: The Brain on August 04, 2011, 08:10:06 AM
I know all about DB Cooper thanks to a TV documentary I saw recently. :smarty:
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Ideologue on August 04, 2011, 08:16:11 AM
Quote from: Warspite on August 04, 2011, 07:28:30 AM
He said "Fly to Mexico", but jumped out over the Pacific northwest?

That part would qualify as a clever ruse if he didn't brain himself on a redwood.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on August 04, 2011, 08:57:46 AM
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2011, 06:23:52 AM
I read an article about the new lead, but I don't buy it.  I agree with Money that Cooper didn't survive the jump, and his skeleton is probably in the middle of some vast wilderness, where animals have long since scattered the bones by now.

Agree.  I don't necessarily think he  lacked parachute experience.  He could easily have done skydiving or been a paratrooper and simply made poor decisions, or felt that he'd rather risk death then go to jail.  The fact that the chose to hijack a plane in the first place tells me he prone to making bad decisions.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Drakken on August 04, 2011, 09:31:46 AM
I believe he didn't. The FBI noted the serial number of each and every bill in the ransom, and not one has turned out into circulation since. Not one.

Either he died, or he survived but lost his ransom cases in the fall.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Drakken on August 04, 2011, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 04, 2011, 08:57:46 AM
Agree.  I don't necessarily think he  lacked parachute experience.  He could easily have done skydiving or been a paratrooper and simply made poor decisions, or felt that he'd rather risk death then go to jail.  The fact that the chose to hijack a plane in the first place tells me he prone to making bad decisions.

Yet he chose to hijack in the only model of civilian aircraft that could fly with its aft airstair apparatus open. The guy knew how to hedge his risks.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Caliga on August 09, 2011, 06:41:40 AM
Quote
DNA Doesn't Match D.B. Cooper

All that excitement for nothing: DNA tests from a new suspect in the D.B. Cooper case failed to match DNA from a necktie that the criminal left on the airplane he hijacked in 1971. While it doesn't necessarily rule out the new suspect—the tie itself could have contained someone else's DNA if, say, it were borrowed—it makes proof significantly less likely. The new suspect was first identified when a woman, Lynn Doyle Cooper, came forward to say she had childhood memories that suggested her uncle was the hijacker. She also provided fingerprints to the FBI, but those tests were inconclusive.

Read it at Los Angeles Times
August 9, 2011 6:44 AM
:sleep:
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 09:17:18 AM
Eh, a forty year old tie that has been handled by dozens of FBI agents over the years is probably not going to give good DNA samples.  Still, I don't think this is the guy.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Caliga on August 11, 2011, 06:38:54 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 09:17:18 AM
Eh, a forty year old tie that has been handled by dozens of FBI agents over the years is probably not going to give good DNA samples.  Still, I don't think this is the guy.
Unless they find the guy's skeleton (which like I said earlier, surely is no longer intact), this case is basically the same as Jack the Ripper now.  Nobody will ever be able to prove his identity, so every couple of years someone will come out with a new 'theory' which in reality is only an excuse to sell a book.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: viper37 on August 11, 2011, 09:21:44 AM
Quote from: Caliga on August 11, 2011, 06:38:54 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 09:17:18 AM
Eh, a forty year old tie that has been handled by dozens of FBI agents over the years is probably not going to give good DNA samples.  Still, I don't think this is the guy.
Unless they find the guy's skeleton (which like I said earlier, surely is no longer intact), this case is basically the same as Jack the Ripper now.  Nobody will ever be able to prove his identity, so every couple of years someone will come out with a new 'theory' which in reality is only an excuse to sell a book.
I wonder if he'll appear in sci-fi shows 100 years from now...
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: 11B4V on August 11, 2011, 10:02:40 AM
He's a dirt dart.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 25, 2011, 12:11:52 AM
Sounds like a clue that should really cut down the number of suspects.  :hmm:

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/23/8982109-40-years-later-new-evidence-emerges-in-db-cooper-case

Quote40 years later, new evidence emerges in D.B. Cooper case


By Chris Ingalls, KING 5 News

This Thanksgiving marks the 40th anniversary of a legendary Northwest crime.

In 1971, skyjacker D.B. Cooper parachuted into the night sky over Washington and vanished.

Now, FBI agents have something they don't often get in a 40-year-old criminal case: new physical evidence.

It comes from the clip-on tie Cooper left behind on the hijacked plane, NBC affiliate KING 5 News reports.

For three years, a team of private scientists has been studying evidence from the Cooper case at the invitation of the Seattle office of the FBI.

"One of the most notable particles that we've found, that had us the most excited, was titanium metal," said lead scientist Tom Kaye.

He said the team identified the titanium on Cooper's tie using an electron microscope.

Titanium is used in things from golf clubs to cookware these days, but in 1971 it was extremely rare.

And, there's another thing.

"In 1971 there was a big upheaval in the titanium industry with the cancelling of the SST project, which happened to be at Boeing, and that laid a lot of people off in the industry. So Cooper could have been part of the fallout," said Kaye.

Boeing canceled its Super Sonic Transport project, one of the first civilian planes to use titanium, just months before the 1971 hijacking. Washington state was suddenly plunged into an economic crisis.

Could Cooper have been unemployed and so desperate that he would threaten to blow up a passenger jet and then parachute with $200,000 in ransom money?

Cooper made the ransom demand on a Thanksgiving Eve Portland-to-Seattle flight, claiming he had a bomb in his briefcase. When the plane landed at Sea-Tac airport, the FBI delivered the money and four parachutes. Cooper jumped from the Boeing 727 soon after it was in the air again, headed south.

"Because he wore a tie, we think he was an engineer or manager who went out on the shop floor regularly," said Kaye of Cooper's position in life.

Cooper was likely not a Boeing employee.

Kaye said the titanium is pure, not processed like the kind used in aircraft manufacture. Kaye's team believes he was probably employed at a titanium production or fabrication facility or a chemical plant. Chemical plants used titanium mixed with aluminum for their anti-corrosive properties. Kaye said aluminum particles were also found on Cooper's tie.

Kaye said the new details about Cooper are valuable to finding out the mysterious hijacker's identity.

"Coming up with a profile that narrows him down to hundreds of people instead of millions we think is pretty significant," he said.

Related: D.B. Cooper and other travel mysteries
advertisement

Does the FBI feel the same way?

The bureau's spokesperson in Seattle, Ayn Sandalo Dietrich, confirmed the FBI has received the team's new evidence, but won't say much else.

Agents made worldwide news this summer when they said there was promising circumstantial evidence. It pointed to a deceased Oregon man named LD Cooper. His family provided personal items that were tested by the FBI. They did not provide any positive link to the hijacking.


Kaye doesn't believe LD Cooper worked around titanium and he does not fit their profile.

Kaye's team has posted its findings for all to see on a website www.citizensleuths.com.

They're asking for input/information from members of the public.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Siege on November 25, 2011, 12:25:32 AM
He is probably reading this thread and laughing.

Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Caliga on November 25, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
He's dead, Jim.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Strix on November 25, 2011, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 25, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
He's dead, Jim.

Funny you mentioned that, I was watching a documentary on him and the last words he uttered as he left the plane were 'Dammit Jim, I am a doctor not a paratrooper'.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 25, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 25, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
He's dead, Jim.
It would still be nice to know who did it though.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Habsburg on November 26, 2011, 03:18:58 AM
While I think it odd they only found part of his money, I can't be bothered.

I'm listening to the sountrack of A Single Man. :wub:
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Neil on November 26, 2011, 08:37:52 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 11, 2011, 10:02:40 AM
He's a dirt dart.
Is that a clever new word for fag?
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Tamas on November 26, 2011, 10:10:21 AM
Are you telling me that the big forum data loss happened in 2009?

Holy shit time flies.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Strix on November 26, 2011, 11:27:27 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 25, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 25, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
He's dead, Jim.
It would still be nice to know who did it though.

Gravity
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: dps on November 26, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 25, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 25, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
He's dead, Jim.
It would still be nice to know who did it though.

In theory, yeah.  In practice, this is one of those mysteries that is more interesting if it's not solved.  After all, if they ever figure out who he was, it's going to be someone no one has ever heard of.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Ed Anger on November 26, 2011, 09:19:29 PM
Quote from: Strix on November 26, 2011, 11:27:27 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 25, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 25, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
He's dead, Jim.
It would still be nice to know who did it though.

Gravity

:lol:
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: dps on November 26, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
In theory, yeah.  In practice, this is one of those mysteries that is more interesting if it's not solved.  After all, if they ever figure out who he was, it's going to be someone no one has ever heard of.
This case is going to become like Jack the Ripper eventually, in that there will be one suspect after another that just gets debunked (but not before a book is written to make the case).  I guess one way it won't be the same though is a lot of whores weren't eviscerated by this guy. :)
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 08:54:11 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: dps on November 26, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
In theory, yeah.  In practice, this is one of those mysteries that is more interesting if it's not solved.  After all, if they ever figure out who he was, it's going to be someone no one has ever heard of.
This case is going to become like Jack the Ripper eventually, in that there will be one suspect after another that just gets debunked (but not before a book is written to make the case).  I guess one way it won't be the same though is a lot of whores weren't eviscerated by this guy. :)
Don't they pretty much know (or think they know) who did it these day?
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
Jack the Ripper you mean?  No, not even close.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
Jack the Ripper you mean?  No, not even close.
Last few documentaries/articles I saw/read pegged the same guy IIRC.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on November 28, 2011, 09:37:15 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 08:54:11 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: dps on November 26, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
In theory, yeah.  In practice, this is one of those mysteries that is more interesting if it's not solved.  After all, if they ever figure out who he was, it's going to be someone no one has ever heard of.
This case is going to become like Jack the Ripper eventually, in that there will be one suspect after another that just gets debunked (but not before a book is written to make the case).  I guess one way it won't be the same though is a lot of whores weren't eviscerated by this guy. :)
Don't they pretty much know (or think they know) who did it these day?

Nope.  The police at the time probably had the best idea, but I seem to recall they couldn't have moved forward as nobody would testify against their main suspect.  Who that main suspect is not exactly known.  It's entirely possible they confused some different people since few of the police would have spoken Yiddish and the suspect was likely a Jew.  Most likely it was some loony Jewish fellow who was imprisoned died or moved on after the White Chapel killings.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on November 28, 2011, 09:37:34 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
Jack the Ripper you mean?  No, not even close.
Last few documentaries/articles I saw/read pegged the same guy IIRC.

Who the Prince of Wales? :lol:
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 28, 2011, 09:37:34 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
Jack the Ripper you mean?  No, not even close.
Last few documentaries/articles I saw/read pegged the same guy IIRC.

Who the Prince of Wales? :lol:
No, definitely not.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: HVC on November 28, 2011, 09:40:36 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
Jack the Ripper you mean?  No, not even close.
Last few documentaries/articles I saw/read pegged the same guy IIRC.
since it happened ever few decades they name a new definitive suspect.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:46:46 PM
:yes:

The latest suspect du jour that I recall was Walter Sickert, the German-British impressionist painter.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2011, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:46:46 PM
:yes:

The latest suspect du jour that I recall was Walter Sickert, the German-British impressionist painter.
That might be it, I recall the suspect being an artsy guy who signed in at a fancy Pub with lines suspiciously similar to some of the stuff in the notes he sent to the police.
Title: Re: DB Cooper
Post by: Razgovory on November 28, 2011, 10:05:04 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2011, 09:46:46 PM
:yes:

The latest suspect du jour that I recall was Walter Sickert, the German-British impressionist painter.

Yeah, that was bullshit.  The "DNA evidence" didn't really limit it down usefully, and the guy wasn't even in the country at the time.