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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Slargos on September 30, 2009, 05:35:31 AM

Title: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Slargos on September 30, 2009, 05:35:31 AM
Ever since I was slandered and ridiculed by the ogreish giant of a friend of my older brother's about pronouncing it Simmeria (one of many childhood traumas) I have been wondering about this subject.

The arguments are legion. Greek origin. Howard's own pronunciation. Etc. Etc.

For me, the decision to use S rather than K has always been simple as it is a product of my understanding of English rather than any historical argument.

Cinnamon.
Cinder.
Cincinnati.
Cimmeria.

As opposed to

Cold.
Cone.
Conch.
Conundrum.
Conan.

But I expect the pronunciation of the C has roots in Latin?

I guess my question is: When it comes to pronunciation of English, the rule of thumb is "soft c before i"?

Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Jaron on September 30, 2009, 05:37:44 AM
:nerd:
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 30, 2009, 05:43:01 AM
Quote from: Slargos on September 30, 2009, 05:35:31 AM
But I expect the pronunciation of the C has roots in Latin?

I guess my question is: When it comes to pronunciation of English, the rule of thumb is "soft c before i"?

Use the hard "c", like a proper Latin student.  It'll impress your friends.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Viking on September 30, 2009, 05:57:46 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians

The hard C seems to be correct. So as far as I'm concerned

Historical Cimmerians - Kimmerians
Howard Cimmerians - Simmerians
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Slargos on September 30, 2009, 05:59:32 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 30, 2009, 05:57:46 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians)

The hard C seems to be correct. So as far as I'm concerned

Historical Cimmerians - Kimmerians
Howard Cimmerians - Simmerians

Well, given that they are infact not the historical Cimmerians, but rather Howard's fictional Cimmerians, I would argue the soft C given both English pronunciation rules and Howard's own soft-C.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Viking on September 30, 2009, 06:09:13 AM
Quote from: Slargos on September 30, 2009, 05:59:32 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 30, 2009, 05:57:46 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians)

The hard C seems to be correct. So as far as I'm concerned

Historical Cimmerians - Kimmerians
Howard Cimmerians - Simmerians

Well, given that they are infact not the historical Cimmerians, but rather Howard's fictional Cimmerians, I would argue the soft C given both English pronunciation rules and Howard's own soft-C.

I think I'm agreeing with you

Conan the Simmerian is correct
Mithridates of Kimmeria is correct as well
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: grumbler on September 30, 2009, 06:27:57 AM
I will endorse the soft-C consensus.  That is certainly how I have pronounced it, given that that was how I have read that Howard pronounced it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 30, 2009, 06:44:28 AM
Word.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Caliga on September 30, 2009, 06:55:07 AM
For Howard's Cimmeria, it's soft-C for sure. :yes:
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Josquius on September 30, 2009, 07:33:57 AM
Hard c/soft c?
Hard=k, soft=s ?

I use the K. It sounds cooler.
And I'm not aware of a rule on when C is S. Its before I?
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Agelastus on September 30, 2009, 08:18:34 AM
Soft "C" for Cimmeria in Howard's milieu. I've never heard it pronounced any other way.

Didn't the two movies opt for the soft "C", anyway?
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: ulmont on September 30, 2009, 08:21:32 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 30, 2009, 07:33:57 AM
And I'm not aware of a rule on when C is S. Its before I?

Quote#  If the following letter is 'E', 'I' or 'Y', the pronunciation is said to be "soft".
# If the following letter is anything else - including a space - the pronunciation is termed "hard".
http://esl.about.com/od/speakingintermediate/a/hardsoftcg.htm

This is English, of course, so there are always exceptions.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: The Brain on September 30, 2009, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: Caliga on September 30, 2009, 06:55:07 AM
For Howard's Cimmeria, it's soft-C for sure. :yes:

QFT
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: PRC on September 30, 2009, 11:47:32 AM
Between the times when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas...
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: The Brain on September 30, 2009, 11:48:26 AM
Quote from: PRC on September 30, 2009, 11:47:32 AM
Between the times when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas...

You were on a break? katmai was thin? What?
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: PRC on September 30, 2009, 11:52:00 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 30, 2009, 11:48:26 AM

You were on a break? katmai was thin? What?

No, no... there was an age undreamed of.  That's all.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on September 30, 2009, 11:59:05 AM
Ci? is always an "s" sound. always. unless there's some exception. I always read it as Simmeria. I'm never wrong about these things.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 07:36:38 AM
Quote from: PRC on September 30, 2009, 11:47:32 AM
Between the times when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas...
In the movie that old Chinese dude was the narrator, right?
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Agelastus on October 01, 2009, 07:45:08 AM
Quote from: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 07:36:38 AM
Quote from: PRC on September 30, 2009, 11:47:32 AM
Between the times when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas...
In the movie that old Chinese dude was the narrator, right?

Yes. Although I've always considered the character more of a Mongol (ie. steppe nomad) type shaman.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 07:52:18 AM
*checks* oops, it was Mako... I forgot.  :blush:

I have that movie on DVD and should watch it again... I've seen it probably 20 times but not recently.

"CROM!!!! ...und if you do not listen..... den TO HELL VITH YOU!" :wub:
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Ed Anger on October 01, 2009, 07:52:49 AM
I only watch for James Earl Jones.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 07:58:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 01, 2009, 07:52:49 AM
I only watch for James Earl Jones.
CAL THE PSYCHIC sees a future Dayton Daily News paper with the headline:

LOCAL FATHER OF NINE CHILDREN WILLS WIFE TO JUMP OFF VAGINA WALL TO HER DEATH
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Ed Anger on October 01, 2009, 09:01:15 AM
Quote from: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 07:58:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 01, 2009, 07:52:49 AM
I only watch for James Earl Jones.
CAL THE PSYCHIC sees a future Dayton Daily News paper with the headline:

LOCAL FATHER OF NINE CHILDREN WILLS WIFE TO JUMP OFF VAGINA WALL TO HER DEATH

You suck at tarot readings.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: PRC on October 01, 2009, 10:27:03 AM
Other fun fact about the other chinese guy in the movie, Subotai played by Gerry Lopez... he was a world class surfer and won a bunch of pipeline surfing competitions.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Brazen on October 01, 2009, 10:35:14 AM
It's pronounced "Sonan".
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 01, 2009, 11:31:57 AM
Quote from: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 07:52:18 AM
*checks* oops, it was Mako... I forgot.  :blush:

I have that movie on DVD and should watch it again... I've seen it probably 20 times but not recently.

"CROM!!!! ...und if you do not listen..... den TO HELL VITH YOU!" :wub:

Dude if you haven't listen to the commentary by Milius & Arnie it's hilarious,
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 11:52:54 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 01, 2009, 11:31:57 AM
Dude if you haven't listen to the commentary by Milius & Arnie it's hilarious,
I started to one time, but switched it off because I find voiceover commentaries extremely distracting.  If it's as good as you say, I'll give it another shot.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 01, 2009, 12:06:32 PM
Quote from: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 11:52:54 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 01, 2009, 11:31:57 AM
Dude if you haven't listen to the commentary by Milius & Arnie it's hilarious,
I started to one time, but switched it off because I find voiceover commentaries extremely distracting.  If it's as good as you say, I'll give it another shot.

I hear that.  I can't watch with commentary on if I want to watch the movie. Only if I want to hear the commentary. I will usually turn that on and multitask like it was radio.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: The Brain on October 01, 2009, 12:18:15 PM
Commentary for Conan the B. was boring. Milius hadn't bother preparing at all and Arnold is neither a thinker nor a talker.

Good commentary: John Carpenter and Kurt Russell The Thing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 01, 2009, 12:37:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2009, 12:18:15 PM
Commentary for Conan the B. was boring. Milius hadn't bother preparing at all and Arnold is neither a thinker nor a talker.

Good commentary: John Carpenter and Kurt Russell The Thing.

well that's a good commentary if you want to learn about the film. Arnie/Milius are getting drunk througout theirs and shooting the shit. apples & guavas
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: The Brain on October 01, 2009, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 01, 2009, 12:37:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2009, 12:18:15 PM
Commentary for Conan the B. was boring. Milius hadn't bother preparing at all and Arnold is neither a thinker nor a talker.

Good commentary: John Carpenter and Kurt Russell The Thing.

Arnie/Milius are getting drunk througout theirs and shooting the shit.

Really? Then they are the saddest people on the planet if doing that makes for such boring fare. Carpenter/Russell is amusing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 02:22:28 PM
The commentary for Ghostbusters was extremely good.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: Agelastus on October 01, 2009, 05:17:51 PM
Quote from: Caliga on October 01, 2009, 11:52:54 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 01, 2009, 11:31:57 AM
Dude if you haven't listen to the commentary by Milius & Arnie it's hilarious,
I started to one time, but switched it off because I find voiceover commentaries extremely distracting.  If it's as good as you say, I'll give it another shot.

I sympathise, I've never been able to sit through a commentary myself.
Title: Re: Pronunciation: "Conan of Cimmeria"
Post by: grumbler on October 02, 2009, 09:55:15 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 01, 2009, 05:17:51 PM
I sympathise, I've never been able to sit through a commentary myself.
I would agree that most commentaries are boring as shit, but sometimes they are brilliant.  Jerry Doyle and some of the other B5 actors did a brilliant commentary for the episode Falling toward Apotheosis."  Especially funny was Doyle's remark, just after the scene where Kosh routs Garibaldi and his security guys, that "that was exactly what it was like when I went to Doug Netter to ask for a raise."  Doyle may not have been a great actor, but he was great in commentaries.