QuoteAnti-gay church wins round in court
Protest outside Marine's funeral called protected speech
September 25, 2009
A federal appeals court ruled Thursday that a fundamentalist Kansas church's protest outside the funeral of a Westminster Marine killed in Iraq is protected speech and did not violate the privacy of the service member's family, reversing a lower court's $5 million award.
The ruling from the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., held that the signs and writings of the Westboro Baptist Church, which included anti-gay and anti-military messages, are protected by the First Amendment. The Topeka-based congregation has protested at military funerals across the country
"Notwithstanding the distasteful and repugnant nature of the words being challenged in these proceedings, we are constrained to conclude that the defendants' signs and [what it has on its Web sites] are constitutionally protected," Circuit Court Judge Robert B. King wrote in the majority opinion.
Margie Jean Phelps, an attorney for Westboro and the daughter of the church's leader, said "it was an absolute shame to have a little church put on trial because of your religious beliefs."
"Everyone knows that we didn't disrupt a funeral," said Phelps, daughter of the Rev. Fred W. Phelps Sr. "Our speech, on our signs and our Web sites, is public speech. It's not on private matters. It's on public issues, so it's protected."
Sean E. Summers, an attorney for Albert Snyder, of York, Pa., the dead Marine's father, said he will appeal the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court.
"The most troubling fact is that it essentially leaves grieving families helpless," said Summers. "There are a lot people sending their kids over to war, and unfortunately, they're not all coming back. You would think that at least we could offer them dignity and respect."
Summers said that Albert Snyder would not comment on the decision. At trial, Snyder testified, "I had one chance to bury my son, and they took the dignity away from it."
Fred Phelps, two other adults and four children picketed the March 10, 2006, funeral of Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, holding signs that said, "Thank God for dead soldiers," and wrote on the church's Web site that Snyder's parents "taught Matthew to defy his creator."
Matthew Snyder, a 2003 graduate of Westminster High School, was 20 years old and had been in the war zone for less than a month when he was killed in a vehicle accident in Anbar province.
Westboro church members believe soldiers are being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan as punishment for what they say is the nation's tolerance of homosexuality. The church has about 75 members, most of whom are related to Phelps.
Albert Snyder sued Fred Phelps and two of his daughters, Rebecca Phelps-Davis and Shirley Phelps-Roper, for invasion of privacy and emotional distress.
In October 2007, a federal jury in Baltimore awarded the father nearly $11 million, ruling that the family's privacy had been invaded. In February 2008, a federal judge reduced the damages from $10.9 million to $5 million, citing constitutional concerns of appropriateness.
"The amount was set with a goal, and the goal was to silence us," said Margie Jean Phelps. "In this country, you don't get to claim damage over words you don't agree with. ... Because we've trained a nation of crybabies doesn't mean we change the law."
I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy just doesn't work.
The title is a lie.
I thought this was about Scientology.
*shrug* The way I see it, the Phelpses just take the ideology championed by other evangelical churches and take it to its extreme but logical conclusion. If the Bible is a literal word of God - rather than a collection of more or less gruesome fairytales from the bronze age - then you can't just pick and choose parts you like and ignore the others.
This means pretty much that the only good Christian literalist is the one who brings forth a veritable-hell-on-earth in a form of the most oppressive and repressive totalitarian regime imaginable - or dies trying.
Incidentally, while Phelpses are less hypocritical about their ideology than other evangelicals, they are still picking and choosing - I haven't seen them opposing the use of yeast, shrimps, cheesburgers (meat and cheese together is an abomination!) or mixed fabric clothes, for example.
For that kind of faithfulness to the Holy Bible, you have The Best Church of God (http://www.bestchurchofgod.org/)
Quote from: Scipio on September 26, 2009, 07:09:44 AM
The title is a lie.
I thought this was about Scientology.
Fine. Marti's favorite church.
Martinus you idiot. Christians only have to obey the New Testament. That way, they get to skip the weird old testament crap, but they still get to hate homosexuals. Not as much as I do, but enough that it's worthwhile.
Quote from: Neil on September 26, 2009, 08:40:04 AM
Martinus you idiot. Christians only have to obey the New Testament. That way, they get to skip the weird old testament crap, but they still get to hate homosexuals. Not as much as I do, but enough that it's worthwhile.
They are quoting Leviticus.
Quote from: Neil on September 26, 2009, 08:40:04 AM
Martinus you idiot. Christians only have to obey the New Testament. That way, they get to skip the weird old testament crap, but they still get to hate homosexuals. Not as much as I do, but enough that it's worthwhile.
I think its his new shtick. Marti who understands where everyone is coming from even if he doesn't like their views.
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 26, 2009, 08:40:04 AM
Martinus you idiot. Christians only have to obey the New Testament. That way, they get to skip the weird old testament crap, but they still get to hate homosexuals. Not as much as I do, but enough that it's worthwhile.
They are quoting Leviticus.
And? They can quote fag-hating Leviticus all they want, because their hatred for homosexuals is sanctified by the New Testament.
I don't like this ruling.
I thought this was about the Catholic church.
QuoteMargie Jean Phelps, an attorney for Westboro and the daughter of the church's leader, said "it was an absolute shame to have a little church put on trial because of your religious beliefs."
Hey, dipshit, you weren't on trial because of your beliefs, you were on trial because of your behavior.
This wacko group. Sad times when jack asses like these haters and miscreants are out and about. I think that bikers and other groups try to go to the same ceremonies and stand between these bastards and the funeral service.
Quote from: dps on September 26, 2009, 09:08:54 PM
Hey, dipshit, you weren't on trial because of your beliefs, you were on trial because of your behavior.
I imagine that they see no distinction between the two. Their beliefs compel them to behave in this manner.
Quote from: Caliga on September 28, 2009, 07:43:19 AM
Quote from: dps on September 26, 2009, 09:08:54 PM
Hey, dipshit, you weren't on trial because of your beliefs, you were on trial because of your behavior.
I imagine that they see no distinction between the two. Their beliefs compel them to behave in this manner.
Yeah, and again this is pretty much consistent with their beliefs that the world is going to hell in a handbasket if they do not do something about the rampant sin, sodomy and atheism.
Which again only goes to show how fucked up Christianity is.
After all, if you knew that the building you are in is going to explode, wouldn't you want to warn other people and do something about it? The mainstream Christians instead act like someone who just stays silent, because noone would believe them anyway. :P
Quote from: Martinus on September 26, 2009, 07:36:12 AM
*shrug* The way I see it, the Phelpses just take the ideology championed by other evangelical churches and take it to its extreme but logical conclusion. If the Bible is a literal word of God - rather than a collection of more or less gruesome fairytales from the bronze age - then you can't just pick and choose parts you like and ignore the others.
This means pretty much that the only good Christian literalist is the one who brings forth a veritable-hell-on-earth in a form of the most oppressive and repressive totalitarian regime imaginable - or dies trying.
Incidentally, while Phelpses are less hypocritical about their ideology than other evangelicals, they are still picking and choosing - I haven't seen them opposing the use of yeast, shrimps, cheesburgers (meat and cheese together is an abomination!) or mixed fabric clothes, for example.
For that kind of faithfulness to the Holy Bible, you have The Best Church of God (http://www.bestchurchofgod.org/)
The logical conclusion of Christianity, evangelical or otherwise, is to live one's life in accordance with God's will in the hopes of a nice afterlife, and to convince others to do the same as an act of kindness. The notion of collective guilt and collective punishment is Jewish, insidiously grafted on to Christianity by that bastard Calvin.