I hope he shouted "BANZAI!" as he sliced the dude's hand off. :cool:
QuoteJohns Hopkins student kills apparent burglar with sword
Suspect died at scene; he had severed left hand and lacerations to upper body
Students confronted man in their garage, police say
He lunged at students, and one defended himself with samurai sword
(CNN) -- A Johns Hopkins University student killed an apparent burglar with a samurai sword after discovering the man in his garage, police said Tuesday.
Baltimore, Maryland, police received a phone call shortly before 1:30 a.m. Tuesday about a suspicious person, and an off-duty officer arrived at the scene with campus security, city police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said.
When authorities arrived, they heard calls for help and for police, he said. They discovered a suspected burglar with a severed left hand and severe lacerations to his upper body, Guglielmi said.
The suspect died at the scene, he said.
The man had entered a home where several Johns Hopkins students lived, Guglielmi said. Four students, one armed with a samurai sword, had confronted the suspect in the garage.
The man "lunged" at the students, and the student with the sword defended himself, severing the man's left hand and cutting his upper body, Guglielmi said.
Police did not release the name of the suspect, who Guglielmi said had a long criminal history, or that of the student.
Police questioned the three witnesses, Guglielmi said, and released them. It was not immediately clear whether all four students lived at the house, he said.
Authorities are determining whether the student will face criminal charges, Guglielmi said.
Burglars had taken two laptops and a Sony PlayStation from the students' home Monday, Guglielmi said.
The burglary suspect had been released from prison Saturday, Guglielmi said.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmantisfists.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F04%2Fghostdog4.jpg&hash=bcfdd9fa0a21265fc03b949fa4616df93d1d772e)
I wonder what I would have to face under German law if I killed a burglar.
Seriously if you break into somebody's house and they capture you and torture you for months I do not have much sympathy. Do not fucking break into people's houses if you do not want people to kill you.
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2009, 08:17:36 AM
Seriously if you break into somebody's house and they capture you and torture you for months I do not have much sympathy. Do not fucking break into people's houses if you do not want people to kill you.
Agree. I love living in a state with the Castle Doctrine.
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2009, 08:17:36 AM
Seriously if you break into somebody's house and they capture you and torture you for months I do not have much sympathy. Do not fucking break into people's houses if you do not want people to kill you.
I agree.
Quote from: Caliga on September 16, 2009, 08:18:12 AM
Agree. I love living in a state with the Castle Doctrine.
IT IS AWESOME.
There is already a case in Kentucky where a guy tried to lure someone on his propery in order to brain him and then claim self-defense. The case went to the State Supreme Court which sustained the conviction only b/c they found the new "Castle" law didn't apply retroactively.
Some of these laws are badly drafted, and the testerone-pumping pleasure they give may not be worth the mischief they can cause.
Come on. He was in the garage, not the house. No lives were in danger. I wouldn't even shoot at somebody in that situation, just scare them off.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 16, 2009, 02:18:53 PM
Come on. He was in the garage, not the house. No lives were in danger. I wouldn't even shoot at somebody in that situation, just scare them off.
Part of me agrees, but part of me wants to be able to shoot every shithead that litters on my lawn.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2009, 02:14:34 PM
There is already a case in Kentucky where a guy tried to lure someone on his propery in order to brain him
Hey, that's a great idea. :smoke:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 16, 2009, 02:18:53 PM
Come on. He was in the garage, not the house. No lives were in danger. I wouldn't even shoot at somebody in that situation, just scare them off.
The article states though that the intruder LUNGED at the victims when confronted. Of course.. no one is around to refute the homeowners' story. :P
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2009, 08:17:36 AM
Seriously if you break into somebody's house and they capture you and torture you for months I do not have much sympathy. Do not fucking break into people's houses if you do not want people to kill you.
"Hey Ma - some sorta meter reader is in our house. Fetch me my restraints and castration iron!"
"The Castle Doctrine: making life interesting for toothless rednecks since the 1990s"
;)
Quote from: Caliga on September 16, 2009, 02:34:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2009, 02:14:34 PM
There is already a case in Kentucky where a guy tried to lure someone on his propery in order to brain him
Hey, that's a great idea. :smoke:
Pffft, you would offer the intruder some of your homemade beer.
Well, I do appreciate feedback, yes. I suppose the shotgun blast could wait until they were done filling out the questionnaire. :)
Quote from: Caliga on September 16, 2009, 02:34:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2009, 02:14:34 PM
There is already a case in Kentucky where a guy tried to lure someone on his propery in order to brain him
Hey, that's a great idea. :smoke:
Forgot to mention the details: he used nunchucks. :D
What is about these crazy Castle doctrine guys and their exotic Asian weaponry?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 16, 2009, 02:18:53 PM
I wouldn't even shoot at somebody in that situation
The guy in this story wouldn't shoot at somebody in that situation either
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2009, 03:10:30 PM
Forgot to mention the details: he used nunchucks. :D
What is about these crazy Castle doctrine guys and their exotic Asian weaponry?
Good point. We ought to rename it the Shuri Castle Doctrine. :)
So far, the cops probably aren't going to charge him, but SA Patricia "There are too many black men in chains" Jessamy will probably toss it to the grand jury.
White Hopkins boy Hassan Chops a dazzling urbanite criminal? In Baltimore? Get a lawyer, son.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 16, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
So far, the cops probably aren't going to charge him, but SA Patricia "There are too many black men in chains" Jessamy will probably toss it to the grand jury.
White Hopkins boy Hassan Chops a dazzling urbanite criminal? In Baltimore? Get a lawyer, son.
:lol:
You should do standup!
QuoteSword-wielding Hopkins student kills intruder
Intruder was repeat offender, released from prison Saturday
By Brent Jones, Liz F. Kay and Jill Rosen
Baltimore Sun reporters
September 16, 2009
Quantcast
Hours earlier, someone had broken into John Pontolillo's house and taken two laptops and a video-game console. Now it was past midnight, and he heard noises coming from the garage out back.
The Johns Hopkins University undergraduate didn't run. He didn't call the police. He grabbed his samurai sword.
With the 3- to 5-foot-long, razor-sharp weapon in hand, police say, Pontolillo crept toward the noise. He noticed a side door in the garage had been pried open. When a man inside lunged at him, police say, the confrontation was fatal.
"He was backed up against a corner and either out of fear or out of panic, he just struck the sword with force," said Baltimore Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi. "It was probably with fear for his life."
Pontolillo, who rents the house in the 300 block of E. University Parkway in the Oakenshawe neighborhood, struck the intruder no more than twice, police say, nearly severing his left hand and inflicting what police termed a "spear laceration."
The intruder, Donald D. Rice of Baltimore, a 49-year-old repeat offender who had been released from jail only Saturday, died at the bloody scene.
Pontolillo, 20, of Wall, N.J., whose identity was confirmed by law enforcement sources, was released late Tuesday afternoon. Guglielmi said it would be up to the state's attorney's office to determine whether he will be charged in the incident.
In a statement Tuesday, Hopkins officials told students there had been more than a half-dozen burglaries in the area recently, and that police presence would be bolstered.
Diego Ardila, a Hopkins student who lived with Pontolillo in the three-story, five-bedroom house during the summer, said Pontolillo owned a samurai sword and generally kept it in his room. He described Pontolillo as somewhat outgoing, but said they didn't talk a lot.
"You don't expect to hear that someone you know killed a guy with a samurai sword," said Ardila, 19. "From what little I know of him, he wasn't some guy going out to kill."
It is legal to possess a sword in Baltimore, Guglielmi said, and "individuals have a right to defend their person and their property." He declined to comment on whether its use in this case was appropriate.
University of Maryland professor David Gray, who specializes in criminal law, said prosecutors must weigh whether Pontolillo felt his life was in danger or whether he became the aggressor.
In Maryland, Gray said, an individual is not expected to retreat from suspected danger in his own home. But it is unclear how the law applies to an enclosed backyard.
If the student felt he was in danger of severe bodily harm, then he was within his right to protect himself, Gray said: "It doesn't matter if he used a gun, a sword or a frying pan."
The sword police recovered from the scene, with a sharp blade and ribbon-wrapped hilt, is a replica of a historic samurai weapon. Though a real one would cost thousands of dollars, Guglielmi said, this one probably cost a few hundred.
The police spokesman said the student who wielded the weapon had no advanced sword training. "He wasn't a ninja," Guglielmi said. "He may have been moderately trained or on the intermediate level."
Hundreds of varieties of samurai swords are available online to collectors and hobbyists, martial arts enthusiasts and students of swordplay through stores such as Steve Dibble's Japanese Swords 4 Samurai site, based in Birmingham, Ala.
His swords range in price from about $50 for the model called the "Kill Bill," after the violent Quentin Tarantino films, to more than $2,000 for a handmade "Katana" forged of steel, a hilt wrapped in leather and silk, and decorative flourishes of silver.
Midrange swords, the type apparently used in the Baltimore incident, are those likeliest used at martial arts schools, he said, where students want a weapon sharp enough to cut.
To inflict lethal damage requires some skill, Dibble said.
"To be that confident with it that he would go grab it, he may have been into martial arts," he said. "You would have to hold it with two hands and be confident that you would really know what you were doing."
Mantis Swords, an online outlet based in Westminster, specializes in sharp weapons. "Our swords are ready for cutting," owner Shawn Salafia said.
Salafia sells mats that people can soak in water so that when they dry, they'll be roughly the consistency of a person.
"You stick them on a stand, and you cut them," he said. "If someone laid their hand into it, you could probably cut into it pretty darn deep."
By Tuesday afternoon, two pools of blood remained on the ground a few feet away from the door to the garage, which is not connected to the home. A gate in a wooden fence surrounding the backyard was broken, allowing the scene to be viewed from the sidewalk.
Michael Hughes, who lives about a block away in the neighborhood, heard screams early Tuesday.
"I could hear the fear in the voice, and I could tell someone was scared," said Hughes, 43, who works for Johns Hopkins' Bloomberg School of Public Health.
He called police and then walked over to the crime scene.
"The body was near the garage," he said. "I watched them carry the sword out. The whole thing was surreal and totally bizarre."
Rice, of the 600 block of East 27th St. in Baltimore, had 29 prior convictions for crimes such as breaking and entering, Guglielmi said. He had been released Saturday from the Baltimore County Detention Center, where he had been held after his arrest by county police last year for stealing a car in the city. He was found guilty in December of unauthorized removal of property and was sentenced to 18 months in prison.
The incident was the second this week in which a man was wounded trying to commit a robbery. An off-duty Baltimore police officer shot and critically wounded a man who had tried to rob him at gunpoint in his Northeast Baltimore home, according to police. He chased the man for two blocks before opening fire, police said.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2009, 02:14:34 PM
There is already a case in Kentucky where a guy tried to lure someone on his propery in order to brain him and then claim self-defense. The case went to the State Supreme Court which sustained the conviction only b/c they found the new "Castle" law didn't apply retroactively.
Some of these laws are badly drafted, and the testerone-pumping pleasure they give may not be worth the mischief they can cause.
Commie.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 16, 2009, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2009, 02:14:34 PM
There is already a case in Kentucky where a guy tried to lure someone on his propery in order to brain him and then claim self-defense. The case went to the State Supreme Court which sustained the conviction only b/c they found the new "Castle" law didn't apply retroactively.
Some of these laws are badly drafted, and the testerone-pumping pleasure they give may not be worth the mischief they can cause.
Commie.
The fuck you bitching about, the only thing you're shooting is fucking sperm everywhere.
Huh. Well I missed that the dude came after him. Who charges at a guy with a katana anyway? :lol:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 16, 2009, 05:39:27 PM
Who charges at a guy with a katana anyway? :lol:
It's amazing what dead people admit to.
QuoteNew details emerge on events that led to samurai sword killing
Johns Hopkins police had alerted student, roommates of suspicious person report; confrontation with man took place outside garage
Johns Hopkins University police had alerted a student and his roommates to the possibility that there was a suspicious person lurking around their home and canvassed the area with the students before one of them killed him with a samurai sword, Baltimore police disclosed late Wednesday.
Police also confirmed that the Tuesday morning encounter did not take place inside of a garage but outside, after the man lunged at the sword-wielding student.
The new details shed more light on the circumstances that led up to the death of Donald D. Rice, 49, a repeat offender who had been released from jail over the weekend. Police and prosecutors are considering whether to charge student John Pontolillo of Wall, N.J., after he killed Rice with a slice from the sword.
Police initially said that Pontolillo's room had been burglarized earlier Monday night, with someone stealing an Xbox 360 and a video game, and that Pontolillo later heard a noise, grabbed the sword and went to investigate.
But city police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said that Johns Hopkins University police and an off-duty officer working in a secondary capacity were called to the 300 block of E. University Parkway to investigate a report from one of Pontolillo's neighbors about a suspicious person spotted in a back yard.
The officers knocked on Pontolillo's door, where Pontolillo informed them of the earlier burglary, which occurred between 8 and 9 p.m., according to a police report of the incident. The housemates and the officers canvassed the area around the house and didn't find anything unusual, Guglielmi said.
After the officers left, the housemates decided to check the area again, with Pontolillo grabbing the sword, Guglielmi said. As Pontolillo checked an outside yard area after 1 a.m., he noticed Rice crouched in a corner, Guglielmi said. He told the man not to move, and yelled for his roommates to call police, according to Guglielmi.
Pontolillo was not inside the garage but backed up against the exterior of a garage door when Rice is alleged to have aggressively moved toward him with his arms raised. Guglielmi said Pontolillo made one downward strike towards Rice, hitting him in the neck and the hand. Rice's hand was nearly severed, and he bled to death at the scene.
Authorities are investigating whether Rice was involved with a rash of other recent robberies around the Johns Hopkins campus.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 16, 2009, 05:39:27 PM
Huh. Well I missed that the dude came after him. Who charges at a guy with a katana anyway? :lol:
Its the sensible thing to do if someone with a katana is going to attack you and you can't run away. Try and get in close rather then let them slash you from afar.
I guess maybe he also thought the student was scared and wouldn't be able to use it.
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
Its the sensible thing to do if someone with a katana is going to attack you and you can't run away. Try and get in close rather then let them slash you from afar.
What most people fail to understand is that when someone comes after you with a katana he puts himself at an immediate disadvantage.
29 prior convictions? Wow.
Quote from: Savonarola on September 17, 2009, 06:05:44 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
Its the sensible thing to do if someone with a katana is going to attack you and you can't run away. Try and get in close rather then let them slash you from afar.
What most people fail to understand is that when someone comes after you with a katana he puts himself at an immediate disadvantage.
Well, the guy certainly got the respect of the yardies... for all the good posthumous respect will do him.
Quote from: Savonarola on September 17, 2009, 06:05:44 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
Its the sensible thing to do if someone with a katana is going to attack you and you can't run away. Try and get in close rather then let them slash you from afar.
What most people fail to understand is that when someone comes after you with a katana he puts himself at an immediate disadvantage.
Who/what started that anyway?
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 17, 2009, 06:05:44 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
Its the sensible thing to do if someone with a katana is going to attack you and you can't run away. Try and get in close rather then let them slash you from afar.
What most people fail to understand is that when someone comes after you with a katana he puts himself at an immediate disadvantage.
Who/what started that anyway?
Top Cat, in a famous post on Paradox entitled "The Octagon".
Top Cat only posted on Languish for a short time, unfortunately. He was a good 'un.
I have no recollection of this "The Octagon" post. :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:02:58 AM
I have no recollection of this "The Octagon" post. :huh:
Are you serious? We only reposted the things about five times.
Does somebody still have it someplace?
Yes, totally serious. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on September 17, 2009, 08:04:53 AM
Yes, totally serious. :blush:
Ok here it is: The Octagon or how I won the respect of the Yardies:
QuoteOk, little story for you all. I wonder if anybody can match it for sheer SHITE in the face of reality. True story.
Ok, in the cinema there's this lad who, well to say he was a friend of a friend would be going too far. More a hanger on of an acquaintance. Anyway, every social group will have one of these guys attached to it at some point. Small, weedy, boring. Talks about himself a LOT. If you are feeling charitable you could describe him as a Walter Mitty, if not he's just full of crap. Anyway. At the cinema waiting for a film to start and this lad, scrawny, greasy, boring, nobody quite knows who he is with or whose friend he is meant to be, launches into a monologue. I will quote it for you as close to verbatim as possible. One of the lads in this group is a boxer, really nice guy but tough as nails, almost went into boxing professionally but decided to study instead. Anyway the conversation has turned to his training regime and this other scrawny little bloke buts in;
"Yeah. People have no idea. It's all bullshit maaaaaan. I mean yeah, I could go to the gym, I could get biceps like this *makes gesture* and legs like this *another gesture*. i could get a six pack, no problem. But *drag on cigarette* what I have to do, is ask myself the question, do I want that? *ostentatious drag on cigarette, pause for dramatic effect*. The answer... is no. My body is a weapon. I mean, you get in a fight, what good is that? What people don't realise IS that say, say somebody comes at you with a knife. He's putting himself at an immediate disadvantage. What's he got? A knife. One weapon. I've got two fists, two legs, two knees, two elbows *indicates body parts in turn as though we didn't know where they are*. If he loses his knife, what's he got then? Take these bouncers at clubs. Sure, they look tough. Perhaps one of them could take me in a bar fight. *draw on cigarette* Perhaps. But I'd like to see how any of them could cope against me in "the octagon". I was in the city once, went into this bar. Looked normal from the outside but what I didn't know was it was a gangster bar. Guy behind the bar goes "get the fuck out of here" but I'm in no mood for shit so I tell him to get me a drink. He pulls this revolver from behind the bar and points it straight at me. I didn't sweat. Looked at the revolver, saw the safety was on. Looked him straight in the eyes and said "Are you going to serve me, or are you going to shoot me?" He pulls the trigger and it doesn't work cos of the safety and he keeps pulling the trigger but *drag on cigarette* I just keep my cool. Then, he puts his gun down and says "Hey man, you're cool man, ain't nothing scares you". *chuckles and shakes head* I got my drink. And THAT *draws on cigarette ostentatiously* is how I won the respect of the Yardies."
Several of us made our excuses and left. The rest of us were too astonished to say anything and just sat there staring while he sat in a haze of cigarette smoke looking smug. It was possibly the oddest ten minutes of my entire life.
Now... if anyone can come up with a real life example of sheer pathetic gittishness better than that I'd be VERY interested to hear it!
You can read the thread here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35481
:lmfao: Oh right! I just forgot this was called "The Octagon".
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 16, 2009, 02:18:53 PM
Come on. He was in the garage, not the house. No lives were in danger. I wouldn't even shoot at somebody in that situation, just scare them off.
Hey got any good stuff in your garage? :P
Quote from: syk on September 16, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what I would have to face under German law if I killed a burglar.
I think killing someone to avert burglary would not fall under our self defense laws. It's not proportional.
So you probably be charged with manslaughter.
Quote from: Zanza on September 17, 2009, 04:08:31 PM
Quote from: syk on September 16, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what I would have to face under German law if I killed a burglar.
I think killing someone to avert burglary would not fall under our self defense laws. It's not proportional.
So you probably be charged with manslaughter.
So you would get 3 months of probation, a stern talking to from Angela Merkel, and a free paid vacation.
Quote from: Zanza on September 17, 2009, 04:08:31 PM
Quote from: syk on September 16, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what I would have to face under German law if I killed a burglar.
I think killing someone to avert burglary would not fall under our self defense laws. It's not proportional.
So you probably be charged with manslaughter.
That proportional thing kills me; is there a chart you have to carry around to make sure you don't defend yourself too much?
The kid's toast. You heard it here first.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 17, 2009, 07:02:58 PM
The kid's toast. You heard it here first.
He will escape from the police using bullet time roundhouse kicks and by running up walls.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 17, 2009, 07:02:58 PM
The kid's toast. You heard it here first.
No shit. Well-off white person kills a black person in self-defence in a place where the spooks elect the local justice types? He'd have better luck being a farmer in Rhodesia.
Jimmy Carter's going to call you a racist. :(
Quote from: Neil on September 17, 2009, 08:17:09 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 17, 2009, 07:02:58 PM
The kid's toast. You heard it here first.
No shit. Well-off white person kills a black person in self-defence in a place where the spooks elect the local justice types? He'd have better luck being a farmer in Rhodesia.
He's gonna have a wonderful time in prison too
The latest news on the subject.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/fromcomments/309462.php
QuotePolice: Md. student swordsman didn't mean to kill
By Ben Nuckols
The Associated Press
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 09.17.2009
BALTIMORE — Baltimore homicide detectives don't believe a Johns Hopkins University student had "the intent to kill" when he used a samurai sword to confront an intruder behind his home, a police spokesman said Thursday.
John Pontolillo, 20, a junior chemistry major from New Jersey, killed the man with a single blow early Tuesday after police said the suspected burglar lunged at him.
Pontolillo has not been charged in the death of Donald D. Rice, 49, who had a long rap sheet of burglary arrests and was released from jail just two days before the altercation. Prosecutors will determine whether charges are appropriate after consulting with police, a process that could take weeks.
"We do not believe he went down there with the intent to kill somebody," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said of Pontolillo. "We're looking to see if he was the aggressor, and so far the evidence doesn't suggest that."
When Pontolillo saw Rice, he raised the sword and yelled for his roommates to call police, Guglielmi said. Rice lunged at the student, who backed up against a wall. At that point, Pontolillo struck Rice once with the sword, nearly severing Rice's left hand and causing a severe wound to his upper body. Rice died at the scene.
Guglielmi said Thursday that when the student found Rice, he was was hiding in the small, fenced courtyard between the back porch and the detached garage behind Pontolillo's off-campus home. Police had initially said Rice was hiding inside the garage.
Police also revealed that Pontolillo and his three roommates, all Hopkins students, had been warned by a city officer and a campus security officer late Monday about a suspicious person in the neighborhood just east of campus.
At that point, the students told the officers that Pontolillo's XBox video game console and two laptop computers had been stolen from their home earlier that night. Police investigated and found no signs of forced entry, according to police reports about the thefts.
After the officers left, Pontolillo retrieved the sword and decided to perform a more thorough search, including the garage and his car, Guglielmi said. The officers heard the screams during the encounter with Rice and rushed back to the scene, he said.
Pontolillo has not returned calls seeking comment. A man who answered the phone at the home of John A. Pontolillo of Belmar, N.J., said he had no comment.
Rice's sister, Peggy Rice, told WJZ-TV in Baltimore Wednesday that her brother did not deserve to die and that the student should be charged.
QuoteAt that point, Pontolillo struck Rice once with the sword, nearly severing Rice's left hand and causing a severe wound to his upper body. Rice died at the scene.
He came down with the sword at an angle; it went through the hand, and then down to the neck. That means the hand was up, above the neck. That's a defensive posture, and that's why he's going to get charged.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 17, 2009, 08:45:34 PM
QuoteAt that point, Pontolillo struck Rice once with the sword, nearly severing Rice's left hand and causing a severe wound to his upper body. Rice died at the scene.
He came down with the sword at an angle; it went through the hand, and then down to the neck. That means the hand was up, above the neck. That's a defensive posture, and that's why he's going to get charged.
A defensive posture? That's iffy. He could have been reaching for the student (or sword) with both hands. If the sword had cut through the forearm (as in a block attempt) than I could see a defensive posture.
This dead mans legacy is going to be that he got his ass killed by some xbox nerd with a japanese anime fetish.
QuoteBaltimore homicide detectives don't believe a Johns Hopkins University student had "the intent to kill" when he used a samurai sword to confront an intruder behind his home, a police spokesman said Thursday.
At least the cops are hoping that, at worst, he only gets manslaughter charge.
Quote from: Strix on September 17, 2009, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 17, 2009, 08:45:34 PM
QuoteAt that point, Pontolillo struck Rice once with the sword, nearly severing Rice's left hand and causing a severe wound to his upper body. Rice died at the scene.
He came down with the sword at an angle; it went through the hand, and then down to the neck. That means the hand was up, above the neck. That's a defensive posture, and that's why he's going to get charged.
A defensive posture? That's iffy. He could have been reaching for the student (or sword) with both hands. If the sword had cut through the forearm (as in a block attempt) than I could see a defensive posture.
We should get Martinus to figure it out. He's good with swordfighting.
Tummy sticks!
Quote from: sbr on September 17, 2009, 06:22:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on September 17, 2009, 04:08:31 PM
Quote from: syk on September 16, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what I would have to face under German law if I killed a burglar.
I think killing someone to avert burglary would not fall under our self defense laws. It's not proportional.
So you probably be charged with manslaughter.
That proportional thing kills me; is there a chart you have to carry around to make sure you don't defend yourself too much?
Very much. If someone called you an asshole, would you kill him? The 'proportional thing' applies every time we interact with other persons. Above all if they are assholes...
And you are happily mixing burglary with assault in your answer...
Quote from: sbr on September 17, 2009, 06:22:10 PM
That proportional thing kills me; is there a chart you have to carry around to make sure you don't defend yourself too much?
The US, generally speaking, has a proportionality requirement as well. Non-deadly threats, including threats to property rather than to persons, can generally only be met with non-deadly force; only in the case of a reasonable fear of death or serious injury can deadly force be used. Even if you look at the "castle doctrine" states, all they do is remove a requirement that you must flee rather than use deadly force if you could flee in reasonable safety (which not all states ever accepted under the common law, anyway).
Quote from: Jaron on September 17, 2009, 11:06:40 PM
This dead mans legacy is going to be that he got his ass killed by some xbox nerd with a japanese anime fetish.
Holy crap, you said something that made sense.
Quote from: derspiess on September 18, 2009, 08:54:17 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 17, 2009, 11:06:40 PM
This dead mans legacy is going to be that he got his ass killed by some xbox nerd with a japanese anime fetish.
Holy crap, you said something that made sense.
ooga ooga booga ooga? *chucks a spear*
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 17, 2009, 06:07:27 AM
29 prior convictions? Wow.
Pfft. That's nothing.
I had a guy with 53 just last week.
Maybe we should pass a 25 strikes and you're out law.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2009, 12:33:02 PM
Maybe we should pass a 25 strikes and you're out law.
Or we could encourage people to learn fencing.
Quote from: Jaron on September 18, 2009, 09:00:16 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 18, 2009, 08:54:17 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 17, 2009, 11:06:40 PM
This dead mans legacy is going to be that he got his ass killed by some xbox nerd with a japanese anime fetish.
Holy crap, you said something that made sense.
ooga ooga booga ooga? *chucks a spear*
:lol:
Quote from: ulmont on September 18, 2009, 08:30:52 AM
Quote from: sbr on September 17, 2009, 06:22:10 PM
That proportional thing kills me; is there a chart you have to carry around to make sure you don't defend yourself too much?
The US, generally speaking, has a proportionality requirement as well. Non-deadly threats, including threats to property rather than to persons, can generally only be met with non-deadly force; only in the case of a reasonable fear of death or serious injury can deadly force be used. Even if you look at the "castle doctrine" states, all they do is remove a requirement that you must flee rather than use deadly force if you could flee in reasonable safety (which not all states ever accepted under the common law, anyway).
If I was in my house or yard and someone who was not supposed to be there lunged aggressively at me (I will assume the student's version is true for this) I would defend myself with whatever I might have in my inventory at the time. I would not wait to see what weapon he might have or what his intentions might be before deciding how to respond. I have never been to Europe, but I have heard Europeans state that if someone attacks you with a knife and you shoot them you are in the wrong; to me that is crazy. I am not advocating shooting someone for flipping you off in traffic.
Also for the record I never have, and probably never will own a gun. Though I think anyone should be ABLE to defend themselves I am not sure I could ever shoot someone myself.
Quote from: sbr on September 18, 2009, 05:29:59 PM
If I was in my house or yard and someone who was not supposed to be there lunged aggressively at me (I will assume the student's version is true for this) I would defend myself with whatever I might have in my inventory at the time. I would not wait to see what weapon he might have or what his intentions might be before deciding how to respond.
Thus taking the risk that you are wrong and/or your belief is unreasonable. This is why some people mutter things like "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."
Quote from: sbr on September 18, 2009, 05:29:59 PMI have never been to Europe, but I have heard Europeans state that if someone attacks you with a knife and you shoot them you are in the wrong; to me that is crazy.
Both are generally classed as deadly force in the US, and so an attack with one can be responded to with the other.
A rapier wit, however, is only deadly when it used on an MA candidate during oral defense.
Well, I sure as shit would've lost money.
QuoteProsecutors say Hopkins student who killed man with sword was justified
City prosecutors ruled Thursday that a Johns Hopkins student who killed an intruder by slicing him with a samurai sword was justified in his actions, according to a letter sent to homicide investigators.
State's Attorney Patricia C. Jessamy said prosecutors determined the student, John Pontolillo, "reasonably believed he was in danger of imminent death or serious bodily injury" and was justified in striking Donald Rice, a 49-year-old repeat offender who is believed to have broken into the student's home earlier in the night.
Pontolillo, of Wall, N.J., was at home in the early morning of Sept. 14 when he heard a noise coming from the garage behind the three-story, five-bedroom house on East University Parkway that he rented with three other students. After canvassing the area with police and school security, Pontolillo grabbed a samurai sword and went out again, where he encountered Rice hiding in the dark.
Prosecutors said Pontolillo ordered Rice not to move, and Rice "came towards Mr. Pontolillo with arms raised," apparently not lunging as police said at the time. "Because he could not determine if there was a weapon in Rice's hands, and fearing for his safety, Pontolillo swung one time as the intruder approached."
Pontolillo struck Rice with the sword, nearly severing his left hand, and Rice bled to death at the scene.
The student could not be reached for comment.
Well that's unexpected. I wonder if the kid's mental state was a factor in that decision. I'd wager most modern people would be a bit shaken after having sliced and killed somebody with a sword. Particularly if they only did it because they were defending themselves.
Nerds rule, nigs drool.