QuotePoles mark Assumption with secular Madonna
By Jan Cienski in Warsaw
Published: August 17 2009 17:46 | Last updated: August 17 2009 17:46
Madonna's Saturday night concert in Warsaw coincided with an important day for another Madonna – the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into heaven. That was a source of dismay to some ultra-Catholic Poles but did not seem to perturb the tens of thousands of cheerful fans who attended the concert.
"I'm a practising Catholic but I don't think there's anything wrong with going to the concert tonight," said a grinning young woman, clutching her white Madonna ticket as she pushed past a single protester decked out in signs condemning the event.
The failure of the protests to gain much support is another sign of the growing secularisation of Polish society, which has come to light in the Catholic Church's recent head counts of the faithful.
The most recent, last November, found 40 per cent of adults in the pews – a percentage that would be beyond the dreams of many non-Polish churchmen. But in Poland the figure is seen as a grim warning because it marks a 4 percentage point decline from a year earlier and more than a 6 percentage point drop from 2003.
That does not mean Polish churches are emptying. The norm is still standing-room-only Masses in churches across the country, and the crosses and statues of saints dotting roadsides across Poland are still decorated with fluttering ribbons tended by the pious.
But there are signs that something may be shifting. Surveys show that while 95 per cent of Poles identify themselves as Catholics, only 70 per cent believe in heaven, and one of the lowest birth rates in Europe suggests the Church's teachings on sexual issues are taken with a pinch of salt.
Another disconcerting statistic for the Church is the decline in young men and women deciding to become priests, monks or nuns. In 2004 there were 2,178 in their first year of religious studies; last year there were only 1,382, a drop of almost 37 per cent.
"We are observing a steady decline, which you can see in vocations and in general religiousness," says Bishop Wojciech Polak.
Some officials discount the attendance numbers as a statistical fluke caused by bad weather during last year's count. Others suggest the migration of millions of Poles to western Europe might have had an impact, while giving a shot in the arm to an ailing Catholic Church in Britain. But there are fears among the clergy that Poland may be heading in the same direction as Ireland, Spain and the Canadian province of Quebec, where a once dominant church proved unable to deal with the changes wrought by secularisation, modernity and the loss of its role as the defender of national values. Often damaged by internal scandals, the popularity of the church in those traditionally Catholic countries has plummeted.
"The numbers show that the tremors have started in the Polish church," says Marcin Przeciszewski, head of the Catholic News Agency.
Poland's Catholic Church defended its national identity for centuries and was the centre of resistance to communist rule. Although it lost that special status when communism ended in 1989, church attendance and vocations held up until the early part of this decade.
The rot seems to have set in following Poland's entry into the European Union in 2004 and the death of John Paul II a year later. People seemed willing at first to transfer their affections to Benedict XVI, but the austere German's efforts to bless his flock in heavily accented Polish have failed to win them over, as the pictures of the previous Pope still gracing almost every church building in the country attest.
Without a charismatic leader, the Polish Church is fissuring. On one side is an ultra-conservative camp gathered round Father Tadeusz Rydzyk and his Radio Maryja network, which appeals largely to the elderly and the rural poor; on the other are liberal urban believers.
But there may also be economic reasons for the decline in churchgoing. Ditching communism and joining the EU has made Poland wealthier. In 1989 per capita income was about $6,000; last year it was more than $17,000.
"Polish religiousness tends to be based on turning to God to escape distress. When that disappears, so may God," says Tadeusz Bartos, a theologian.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e370789c-8b49-11de-9f50-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
*dances a happy jig* :yeah:
Young man, I believe you were asked to post these items in your cute little gay thread. :yeahright:
Quote from: Caliga on August 18, 2009, 07:16:23 AM
Young man, I believe you were asked to post these items in your cute little gay thread. :yeahright:
This is a thread about Madonna and catholic priests. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. :mad:
:Embarrass:
Quote from: Martinus on August 18, 2009, 07:17:52 AM
Quote from: Caliga on August 18, 2009, 07:16:23 AM
Young man, I believe you were asked to post these items in your cute little gay thread. :yeahright:
This is a thread about Madonna and catholic priests. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. :mad:
:lol:
Well the 80s were kind of awesome. I am a bit envious that Poles get to experience it now.
Wow, Madonna is so amazing. She's like healing the world and shit!
So is she still a Jew or has she gotten bored with that and picked up something weirder like Zoroastrianism in her neverending bid to prove to everyone she's some kind of eccentric genius?
Quote from: Martinus on August 18, 2009, 07:17:52 AM
Quote from: Caliga on August 18, 2009, 07:16:23 AM
Young man, I believe you were asked to post these items in your cute little gay thread. :yeahright:
This is a thread about Madonna and catholic priests. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. :mad:
:lmfao:
Anyway, this is only logical. It has happened in every other European country.
Quote from: Caliga on August 18, 2009, 11:46:09 AM
So is she still a Jew or has she gotten bored with that and picked up something weirder like Zoroastrianism in her neverending bid to prove to everyone she's some kind of eccentric genius?
Madonna: The female Spellus.
I lost faith after meetin Marty too :p
Quote from: Caliga on August 18, 2009, 11:46:09 AM
So is she still a Jew or has she gotten bored with that and picked up something weirder like Zoroastrianism in her neverending bid to prove to everyone she's some kind of eccentric genius?
She is not a Jew. She is a qabbalist.
Qabbalah is to Judaism what, say, Gnosticism is to Christianity.
If I ever lose my faith in you, there'd be nothing left for me to do. :(
Quote from: Martinus on August 18, 2009, 06:05:33 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 18, 2009, 11:46:09 AM
So is she still a Jew or has she gotten bored with that and picked up something weirder like Zoroastrianism in her neverending bid to prove to everyone she's some kind of eccentric genius?
She is not a Jew. She is a qabbalist.
Qabbalah is to Judaism what, say, Gnosticism is to Christianity.
A scam?
I knew this would happen. The existence of a Polish Pope kept religious faith in Poland artificially high. Who's surprised that they aren't as devoted to a German Pope?
Quote from: Martinus on August 18, 2009, 06:05:33 PMShe is not a Jew. She is a qabbalist.
Qabbalah is to Judaism what, say, Gnosticism is to Christianity.
Well, I never meant to imply that she was a "real" Jew anyway. I knew she was some Hollywood-flavored trendy Jew variant.