QuoteCanada to take seal ban fight to WTO
OTTAWA (AFP) – Canada said it would take its fight for the country's seal hunting industry to the World Trade Organization, vowing to appeal a European Union decision to ban imported seal products."We are very disappointed with this ruling. We believe strongly this violates the World Trade Organization guidelines," International Trade Minister Stockwell Day told reporters, insisting the hunt is "humanitarian, scientific and follows environmental rules of sustainability."
In a decision taken without debate, EU foreign ministers earlier adopted a ban on seal products from Canada, ruling the goods cannot be marketed in the 27 EU nations. Three countries -- Denmark, Romania and Austria -- abstained with all others voting in favor.
"It is in our view inappropriate that a trade decision is taken which is not based on the science, and for that reason, we're announcing that we'll be pursuing an appeal of this vote today," Day said.
Only products "from hunts traditionally conducted by Inuit and other indigenous communities to ensure their subsistence" would be permitted under the ban, according to a statement.
But Inuit communities nonetheless called the ban "an abomination," saying it "directly attacks cultures, communities, and livelihoods that represent a basic means of living for many here in Canada."
Mary Simon, president of the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, and the national leader of Inuit in Canada, said the ban was based on "groundless accusations influenced by animal rights propaganda campaigns."
Canadian Fisheries Minister Gail Shea said the regulation "specifically prohibits the marketing of products resulting from sustainable and humane commercial hunts," saying the vote was a violation of the EU's WTO commitments.
Canada, she said, had "expected the EU to act on science instead of misinformation" from the likes of "professional anti-seal-hunt lobbyists."
The European Commission denied the accusations, and defended the ban as both appropriate and legal.
"The legislation has neither protectionist intent nor effect. It is designed to give voice to a genuinely held concern of EU citizens," said Lutz Gullner, a spokesman for Trade Commissioner Catherine Ashton.
"It applies to all seals, whether they are in the EC or in Canada or Norway and is entirely non-discriminatory."
The move concerned products derived from all species of seals and includes fur skins, organs, meat, oil and blubber, which can be used in cosmetics and medicine. It is due to take effect next spring, once nations have implemented the legislation.
The Canadian government said WTO consultations would begin 60 days after Canada submits its request. The demand, it said, would be made "in the coming weeks," after reviewing the final decision from the European Council of Ministers.
"If others choose to challenge it in the WTO, then the European Commission will vigorously defend it, as it does with all EC legislation," Gullner said.
On Sunday, Canada had urged the EU to reconsider the ban, arguing it imposes regulations ensuring humane hunting inside its borders.
In July 2007, Canada launched WTO talks with Belgium and the Netherlands about the two countries' embargo on seal products, but the consultations broke off with no resolution.
Inuit spokesperson Violet Ford said the community would continue to hunt seal and might consider legal action.
"All Inuit from Russia, Alaska, Canada, and Greenland are standing in solidarity against the EU on this," said Ford, vice-president of international affairs at the Inuit Circumpolar Council in Canada.
"Hunting sustainably and humanely is something we have done for thousands of years and continue to do so," she said.
The Inuit Circumpolar Council is a non-governmental organization that represents about 150,000 Inuit.
Around 6,000 Canadians take part in seal hunting each year along the Atlantic coast.
Ottawa authorizes the slaughter of 338,000 seals per season, and says the survival of the species is not in danger. But the popularity of seal hunting has dropped, along with a decline in demand for seal products.
Seal hunters cashed in about 10 million dollars from the 2009 hunt, said Day, adding that 25 percent of the sales usually come from exporting products to Europe.
Canada, Greenland and Namibia kill 60 percent of the 900,000 seals slain each year. Other seal-hunting countries include Norway, Iceland, Russia and the United States.
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Seals are rats.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2009, 06:08:28 AM
Seals are rats.
Kill rats, then. There's no ban on imported rat products.
With the Polar Bears dying out somebody has to kill the seals.
So what is the problem with killing seals anyway?
Quote from: Alatriste on July 28, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Kill rats, then. There's no ban on imported rat products.
What about walruses? Can the Inuits kill walruses?
Quote from: Alatriste on July 28, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2009, 06:08:28 AM
Seals are rats.
Kill rats, then. There's no ban on imported rat products.
They're killing the cod, I thought Euroweenies liked cod.
fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2009, 07:56:37 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on July 28, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2009, 06:08:28 AM
Seals are rats.
Kill rats, then. There's no ban on imported rat products.
They're killing the cod, I thought Euroweenies liked cod.
cod is only a small part of the seal diet. but euros like cod too, yeah.
anyhow, the marine ecosystem is such a mess, the cod is very likely not coming back in our lifetime. so now its all about shellfish anyway.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 07:39:41 AM
So what is the problem with killing seals anyway?
:cry: They're cute.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 28, 2009, 08:04:18 AM
:cry: They're cute.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ruggedelegantliving.com%2Fa%2Fimages%2FS.Helvenston.1992.SEALs.Calendar.jpg&hash=7f9d2ec77678e70605231ce9e6a7393c01308325)
Well I guess if you are into that sort of thing.
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:00:56 AM
fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.
I basically agree - there is no reason to subsidize the hunt, but the ban is pure bullshit.
May you guys never say that infront of Newfies.
Quote from: Malthus on July 28, 2009, 08:09:55 AM
I basically agree - there is no reason to subsidize the hunt, but the ban is pure bullshit.
I say let this start a protectionist war! Everybody benefits!
So...what do the Euros export alot to Canada that you guys can ban?
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 08:08:22 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ruggedelegantliving.com%2Fa%2Fimages%2FS.Helvenston.1992.SEALs.Calendar.jpg&hash=7f9d2ec77678e70605231ce9e6a7393c01308325)
Well I guess if you are into that sort of thing.
:perv:
Quote from: Malthus on July 28, 2009, 08:09:55 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:00:56 AM
fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.
I basically agree - there is no reason to subsidize the hunt, but the ban is pure bullshit.
its symbolic and cheap. the euros are banning it because the market has shifted. their constituents largely don't care for the hunt, so its easy political points for them.
I mean, we could fight it at WTO,
but it won't change anything even if we won. heck we could even ban imports of foie gras as a tit for tat move, but that'll never happen. are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?
let the euros have their ban, and let's spend time on more substantive issues.
The Governor General should rip the heart out of any Euroweenie that opposes her and eat it raw. It's about time for Canada to become a country of action, and what better than to practice on Europeans? It's not like they'll fight back.
Maybe club a few foreign ministers, too.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2009, 08:14:17 AM
May you guys never say that infront of Newfies.
if they can't market their product so that people actually want it, that's their problem.
edit: it would help if Newfies learned to speak english.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 28, 2009, 08:19:53 AM
The Governor General should rip the heart out of any Euroweenie that opposes her and eat it raw. It's about time for Canada to become a country of action, and what better than to practice on Europeans? It's not like they'll fight back.
Maybe club a few foreign ministers, too.
here's an idea. why not sell seal stuff domestically? we are a rich country.
oh that's right. seal meat tastes bad and Canadians don't want the fur either.:contract:
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:19:12 AM
I mean, we could fight it at WTO, but it won't change anything even if we won. heck we could even ban imports of foie gras as a tit for tat move, but that'll never happen. are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?
See this sort of limited thinking will not win anything for Canada. You need to respond disproportionally. I say ban ALL European products and forcibly expel all European expats from Canada.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 08:24:43 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:19:12 AM
I mean, we could fight it at WTO, but it won't change anything even if we won. heck we could even ban imports of foie gras as a tit for tat move, but that'll never happen. are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?
See this sort of limited thinking will not win anything for Canada. You need to respond disproportionally. I say ban ALL European products and forcibly expel all European expats from Canada.
hmm.... :D
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 08:08:22 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 28, 2009, 08:04:18 AM
:cry: They're cute.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ruggedelegantliving.com%2Fa%2Fimages%2FS.Helvenston.1992.SEALs.Calendar.jpg&hash=7f9d2ec77678e70605231ce9e6a7393c01308325)
Well I guess if you are into that sort of thing.
Hunting them down, clubbing them to death and making coats of their pelts would make an excellent spectator sport. :P
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2009, 08:14:17 AM
May you guys never say that infront of Newfies.
Newfs didn't vote Conservative, so fuck 'em.
Sask, I think the Euroweenies may have miscalculated. The next G8 meeting is going to be in the North for the very reason that the conservatives are making the North one of their major policy platforms in the next election.
If the Euros thought they could score easy points with their electorate with little blowback they are likely in for a shock.
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:00:56 AM
fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.
it is not subsidized, so far as I know.
And it's not in "decline". Business is slow at the moment, that's all. Like oil prices are down at the moment, yet it doesn't mean the oil industry is in decline (and this one is subsidized, btw).
Besides, seals are not marketted only for their fur, even though it's the main product. Seal food is sold in a few restaurants, and it's also part of other animal food. And with their oil, we can make omega 3 caps.
And if we don't kill the seals to maintain their population, there'll be no more fish in our part of the atlantic pretty soon.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 08:16:02 AM
I say let this start a protectionist war! Everybody benefits!
So...what do the Euros export alot to Canada that you guys can ban?
Their awful wines, or what passes for it.
I'm already boycotting this.
I also boycott their movies and their music.
If I see anything marked "Made in France", I refuse to buy it.
I'm doing my part.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 28, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
Sask, I think the Euroweenies may have miscalculated. The next G8 meeting is going to be in the North for the very reason that the conservatives are making the North one of their major policy platforms in the next election.
If the Euros thought they could score easy points with their electorate with little blowback they are likely in for a shock.
Hear this BB, kick the reform guys + Harper out & do this & I'll vote Conservative.
Quote from: viper37 on July 28, 2009, 10:27:33 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:00:56 AM
fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.
it is not subsidized, so far as I know.
And it's not in "decline". Business is slow at the moment, that's all. Like oil prices are down at the moment, yet it doesn't mean the oil industry is in decline (and this one is subsidized, btw).
Besides, seals are not marketted only for their fur, even though it's the main product. Seal food is sold in a few restaurants, and it's also part of other animal food. And with their oil, we can make omega 3 caps.
And if we don't kill the seals to maintain their population, there'll be no more fish in our part of the atlantic pretty soon.
your tax dollars, not mine. go at 'er. they have ceased direct subsidies, but maintain other ways of keeping the industry viable.
there's other sources of omega 3. eat some flax.
your last point is a deliberate industry lie. according to DFO, the cod collapsed because of humans overfishing and its impacts. culling seals won't make a difference.
despite the euros thing, nothing stopping you from buying seal products is there? largely, Canadians are just *not* interested.
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:19:12 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 28, 2009, 08:09:55 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:00:56 AM
fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.
I basically agree - there is no reason to subsidize the hunt, but the ban is pure bullshit.
its symbolic and cheap. the euros are banning it because the market has shifted. their constituents largely don't care for the hunt, so its easy political points for them.
I mean, we could fight it at WTO, but it won't change anything even if we won. heck we could even ban imports of foie gras as a tit for tat move, but that'll never happen. are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?
let the euros have their ban, and let's spend time on more substantive issues.
I'm okay with throwing the Newfie seal hunters under the bus, but the seal ban also affects traditional Inuit hunters. So fuck the euros.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 28, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
Sask, I think the Euroweenies may have miscalculated. The next G8 meeting is going to be in the North for the very reason that the conservatives are making the North one of their major policy platforms in the next election.
If the Euros thought they could score easy points with their electorate with little blowback they are likely in for a shock.
Hear this BB, kick the reform guys + Harper out & do this & I'll vote Conservative.
No dice.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 07:39:41 AM
With the Polar Bears dying out somebody has to kill the seals.
olar bears aren't dying. :huh:
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:19:12 AM
are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?
Polar bears have been classified has an endangered species, just like some species of whales the Euros are still hunting.
Just like some species of shark they are also hunting.
Seals however, are far from being endangered.
Quote
let the euros have their ban, and let's spend time on more substantive issues.
You fold on this, you'll be expected to fold on the next issue.
Besides, it's a huge part of the economy for the Maritimes region and they need it. Unless you're suggesting we put all fishermen and hunters on wellfare, paid for by... ?
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2009, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 07:39:41 AM
With the Polar Bears dying out somebody has to kill the seals.
olar bears aren't dying. :huh:
The Olars are already extinct. Its the Polars we are worried about now. Catch up!
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2009, 10:42:10 AM
olar bears aren't dying. :huh:
What? On that show Planet Earth Sigourney Weaver told me the melting ice caps in the arctic were putting the Polar Bears in danger :cry:
I weeped and weeped for days in anguish. 'What have we done? DEAR LORD WHAT HAVE WE HUMANS WROUGHT IN OUR ARROGANCE?!'
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2009, 10:42:10 AM
olar bears aren't dying. :huh:
the population is not growing for the moment, and there are less then there used to be.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 10:45:27 AM
What? On that show Planet Earth Sigourney Weaver told me the melting ice caps in the arctic were putting the Polar Bears in danger :cry:
I weeped and weeped for days in anguish. 'What have we done? DEAR LORD WHAT HAVE WE HUMANS WROUGHT IN OUR ARROGANCE!'
there's less ice in the north, so their life is more difficult. So right now, instead of growing the population is stable at about 25 000 bears.
As global warming keep affecting the north, it is expected that there will be a sharp decline in the coming years, and we already observe that they tend to have less cubs and be thinner then they should be.
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2009, 10:40:02 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:19:12 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 28, 2009, 08:09:55 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:00:56 AM
fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.
I basically agree - there is no reason to subsidize the hunt, but the ban is pure bullshit.
its symbolic and cheap. the euros are banning it because the market has shifted. their constituents largely don't care for the hunt, so its easy political points for them.
I mean, we could fight it at WTO, but it won't change anything even if we won. heck we could even ban imports of foie gras as a tit for tat move, but that'll never happen. are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?
let the euros have their ban, and let's spend time on more substantive issues.
I'm okay with throwing the Newfie seal hunters under the bus, but the seal ban also affects traditional Inuit hunters. So fuck the euros.
QuoteProducts from traditional hunts by indigenous peoples in Canada and Greenland will be exempt from the ban.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8171490.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8171490.stm)
Quote from: viper37 on July 28, 2009, 10:43:27 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 08:19:12 AM
are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?
Polar bears have been classified has an endangered species, just like some species of whales the Euros are still hunting.
Just like some species of shark they are also hunting.
Seals however, are far from being endangered.
The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 10:52:35 AM
The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.
Correct. And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 28, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 10:52:35 AM
The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.
Correct. And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.
I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 11:03:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 28, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 10:52:35 AM
The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.
Correct. And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.
I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.
Heh, Newfies hunting with clubs is horrible, but
bullfighting is good clean family fun? :lol:
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 11:03:47 AM
I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.
Yeah, and penning cows in feed lots their whole life, putting a bolt through their head and then slaughtering them is so much better. The whole thing reeks of taking on an easy target to appease a hypocritical populous.
Quote from: saskganesh on July 28, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
your tax dollars, not mine. go at 'er. they have ceased direct subsidies, but maintain other ways of keeping the industry viable.
Oil industry is subsidized, in Saskatchewan and Alberta, by generous tax credits from the Federal government, dating back to the Martin years. Federal money = my tax dollars and yours.
Auto industry is subsidized. Ferderal money = my tax dollars and yours too.
Seal hunting was never subsidized:
Myth #5: Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) provides subsidies for the seal hunt.
Reality: DFO does not subsidize the seal hunt. Sealing is an economically viable industry. All subsidies ceased in 2001. Before that time, any subsidies provided were for market and product development, including a meat subsidy, to encourage full use of the seal. and seal hunting represents a sizable portion of the annual revenu for fishermens. That helps reduce their dependancy to unemployment insurance or wellfare programs. More money in our pockets.
Quote
there's other sources of omega 3. eat some flax.
yes, let's kille more of these endangered fishes out there!!
My point is that all parts of the seals are used, not just the fur.
Quote
your last point is a deliberate industry lie. according to DFO, the cod collapsed because of humans overfishing and its impacts. culling seals won't make a difference.
The cod collapsed because of:
a- over fishing
b- not hunting the seals
c- hunting the killer whales who ate the seals
d- hunting the great white shark who ate the seals
e- hunting the polar bears who ate the seals
f- other reduction of the seal hunters population
Yes, maybe culling the seal population won't help the cod to recover and eventually, it'll be extinct anyway. But one thing is sure: if we let too many seals go on, there sure won't be any cod left by the time you & I die.
Quote
despite the euros thing, nothing stopping you from buying seal products is there? largely, Canadians are just *not* interested.
there is one reason why not many people do offer seal meat:
Montreal chef who serves seal meat threatened after GG dined on marine mammal.
Killing humans is ok. No one ever receives death threat for killing other humans.
But when it comes to animal, people are overly sensitive.
You've got a good documentary here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1974779506794892588
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 11:03:47 AM
I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.
They aren't bludgeoned to death. The hakapik crushes the skull, killing them instantly. It's apparently far more efficient, and therefore more humane, than shooting them.
you know, we lost this fight in 1972 when the United States of America -- our most important trade partner -- banned seal imports as part of the Marine Mammal Protection act.
so only losers and stupid people keep on trying. of course, we could spend marketing dollars so as to promote selling seal penises to Mono's father in law, but I would prefer we did not.
Why do you hate the inuit Sasks? :cry:
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2009, 12:05:37 PM
Why do you hate the inuit Sasks? :cry:
i don't. they have their own province now.
and viper, flax is a plant.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 28, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 10:52:35 AM
The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.
Correct. And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.
the people trying to make aliving in the north were trying to make a living in the north (well, their ancestors) long before any europeans showed up so I don't see how an import-ban should affect them.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 28, 2009, 12:21:21 PM
the people trying to make aliving in the north were trying to make a living in the north (well, their ancestors) long before any europeans showed up so I don't see how an import-ban should affect them.
Subsistence hunter-gathering is not much of a living.
Quote from: Malthus on July 28, 2009, 11:08:26 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 11:03:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 28, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 10:52:35 AM
The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.
Correct. And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.
I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.
Heh, Newfies hunting with clubs is horrible, but bullfighting is good clean family fun? :lol:
Their arguments, not mine. I'd be fine if they banned bullfighting as well.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 28, 2009, 11:10:21 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2009, 11:03:47 AM
I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.
Yeah, and penning cows in feed lots their whole life, putting a bolt through their head and then slaughtering them is so much better. The whole thing reeks of taking on an easy target to appease a hypocritical populous.
The difference is that the world can go on as if nothing happened without seal stuff, but try to sustain modern society without the industrialized cattle industry and see how it goes.
It's not a big deal here, no easy target or anything. Footnote news that will be forgotten in a couple of days.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 28, 2009, 12:21:21 PM
the people trying to make aliving in the north were trying to make a living in the north (well, their ancestors) long before any europeans showed up so I don't see how an import-ban should affect them.
Subsistence hunter-gathering is not much of a living.
not relevant really. Either they make a living the traditional way or they don't, in which case they get to deal with public opinion elsewhere. And that public doesn't like sealhunters.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 28, 2009, 12:41:01 PM
not relevant really. Either they make a living the traditional way or they don't, in which case they get to deal with public opinion elsewhere. And that public doesn't like sealhunters.
If that was really true it would not be necessary to do protectionist shit like banning them. The public would simply not buy Seal products and there would be no industry. Instead merely an annoying minority of the public do not like sealhunters and they are raising enough of a stink to get their way.
But hey my country did the same shit.
The slaughter of seals has now become a moral imperative. We must show those Euros that we won't allow them to push us around. We should also sink some of their fishing trawlers.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 28, 2009, 12:41:01 PM
not relevant really. Either they make a living the traditional way or they don't, in which case they get to deal with public opinion elsewhere. And that public doesn't like sealhunters.
If that was really true it would not be necessary to do protectionist shit like banning them. The public would simply not buy Seal products and there would be no industry. Instead merely an annoying minority of the public do not like sealhunters and they are raising enough of a stink to get their way.
But hey my country did the same shit.
Or in this case an annoying majority.
I hope that the WTO slaps Europe for this, the way it slapped us for the equally nonprotectionist internet gambling ban. If we can't exercise discretion to ban things, no one should.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 28, 2009, 03:40:26 PM
Or in this case an annoying majority.
The majority of Euros are sealhunting activists?
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 28, 2009, 03:40:26 PM
Or in this case an annoying majority.
The majority of Euros are sealhunting activists?
Probably not, but I'm guessing if you took a poll the majority would support banning the import of products from the clubbed baby seals.
The EU sucks man ass.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 28, 2009, 03:51:30 PM
Probably not, but I'm guessing if you took a poll the majority would support banning the import of products from the clubbed baby seals.
They don't care that much if you asked them if the EU should ban products obtained from the Inuits traditional seal hunts people would respond differently.
Just like if you said 'are you in favor of brutally massacring innocent animals?' and then used that to show that most people are against meat eating.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 03:58:30 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 28, 2009, 03:51:30 PM
Probably not, but I'm guessing if you took a poll the majority would support banning the import of products from the clubbed baby seals.
They don't care that much if you asked them if the EU should ban products obtained from the Inuits traditional seal hunts people would respond differently.
Just like if you said 'are you in favor of brutally massacring innocent animals?' and then used that to show that most people are against meat eating.
Both of us are discussing hypothetical polling, but my guess is that the majority would support this ban, but would not support a ban on meat eating. It probably has to do with seals being cute. It is similar to how we banned the eating of horsemeat (or at least I think we did).
That reminds me. One of the best meals I have had was slow cooked horse meat in Northern Italy.
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 28, 2009, 12:21:21 PM
the people trying to make aliving in the north were trying to make a living in the north (well, their ancestors) long before any europeans showed up so I don't see how an import-ban should affect them.
Subsistence hunter-gathering is not much of a living.
It is man's natural state.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 28, 2009, 06:59:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 28, 2009, 12:21:21 PM
the people trying to make aliving in the north were trying to make a living in the north (well, their ancestors) long before any europeans showed up so I don't see how an import-ban should affect them.
Subsistence hunter-gathering is not much of a living.
It is man's natural state.
Man is ingenious. Our natural state is whatever we make of it.
It is about time someone stood up to the baby seal clubbing neanderthals.
I mean really - it isn't like this is a real industry or anything. The only reason people care is they are conservitard thugs who think that just because people have been clubbing helpless seals for a long time, it is fine idea to continue doing so. Screw 'em.