Valve announced a couple of new hardware today.
A new Steam controller
A Steam VR headset
And more importantly, a Steam machine.
I'm quite excited to finally have a steam deck without the portability.
Been a while coming. So many DIY devices.
Shame they can't pull the switch thing succesfully.
BBC News - Steam Machine: Valve rivals Xbox and PlayStation with new console - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd679n9lnx5o?app-referrer=deep-link
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2025, 06:26:21 AMBeen a while coming. So many DIY devices.
Shame they can't pull the switch thing succesfully.
BBC News - Steam Machine: Valve rivals Xbox and PlayStation with new console - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd679n9lnx5o?app-referrer=deep-link
What is the upside to attaching a PC to one's tv?
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2025, 07:36:24 AMQuote from: Josquius on November 13, 2025, 06:26:21 AMBeen a while coming. So many DIY devices.
Shame they can't pull the switch thing succesfully.
BBC News - Steam Machine: Valve rivals Xbox and PlayStation with new console - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd679n9lnx5o?app-referrer=deep-link
What is the upside to attaching a PC to one's tv?
A bigger screen? As long as you have a PC already, though, you can make some significant savings by buying an HDMI cable instead of this Steam Machine thing.
But I guess maybe if you haven't had a PC you can buy it and start buying PC games off Steam. Which makes, sense? I am sure.
The temptation for me would be that the computer and living room TV are on opposite sides of the house.
Streaming is possible but its a big faff and involves turning the computer on and off anyway.
Doubt I'll be getting one but I can see where some might be interested. If it costs less than a full PC but games have more compatibility then that is good for those without gaming PCs.
Looks interesting, and might finally get me to shut down my Windows box for good. I'm worried about the relatively small amount of system RAM, though. I haven't done more than ad-hoc memory profiling on my gaming system, but I feel like only having 16GiB is pushing it for some games already, let alone what might be coming.
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2025, 07:36:24 AMQuote from: Josquius on November 13, 2025, 06:26:21 AMBeen a while coming. So many DIY devices.
Shame they can't pull the switch thing succesfully.
BBC News - Steam Machine: Valve rivals Xbox and PlayStation with new console - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd679n9lnx5o?app-referrer=deep-link
What is the upside to attaching a PC to one's tv?
In my case, getting a console like experience while avoiding the price wall that are Xbox Game Pass (formely live) or PSN; getting access to more indie darlings for a cheaper price.
I guess that'll be my next pc. in about a year or 3
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2025, 07:36:24 AMWhat is the upside to attaching a PC to one's tv?
Same for attaching a playstation or X-box except the games library is much larger.
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2025, 07:36:24 AMWhat is the upside to attaching a PC to one's tv?
I would've bought the Steam Box last year if it had been available. Instead I got an Xbox (which I kind of regret).
The use case is: turn the gadget on, low-tech people in the family can reliably start a game and play it in the living room, no worries about watching Youtube or downloading malware or whatever - but we have access to PC games.
I'm still very attracted to the Steam Box for exactly that purpose. We have a Steam Deck and the curated "it just works" experience is pretty good. And so for I haven't had to worry about subscription services.
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 12, 2025, 03:06:47 PMI'm quite excited to finally have a steam deck without the portability.
:showoff: :lol:
IMO the biggest issue I have with the potential Steam Box is an issue I have with the Steam Deck right now. If my wife is playing Game A on the Steam Deck and I start playing Game B on my PC, she gets kicked off Game A (and vice versa) because it's the same account.
The solution has been to turn of internet connectivity on the Steam Deck when there's more than one game going on. But being able to play more than one of the games I have on different devices becomes more important if I get multiple Steam devices.
Isn't there a family library option on steam?
Tick a box to make your games playable by a a few other accounts?
Or that still only let's one person play?
I haven't looked into it thoroughly, since disabling wifi connection was a sufficient fix for my needs.
Quote from: viper37 on November 13, 2025, 07:28:31 PMQuote from: Grey Fox on November 12, 2025, 03:06:47 PMI'm quite excited to finally have a steam deck without the portability.
:showoff: :lol:
I wasn't being sarcastic. I have no use for a portable system.
Quote from: Jacob on November 13, 2025, 08:20:08 PMI haven't looked into it thoroughly, since disabling wifi connection was a sufficient fix for my needs.
Steam family sharing is pretty easy to set up and it works great. Not only allows simultaneous gaming (as long as the games aren't identical) but separate cloud saves for each family member.
My holy grail device would be a Steam Deck where I can also install basic productivity/entertainment software (although I guess you can already fool around with WINE on the current steam deck?), or an iPad where I can run PC games.
You can install just about any application you want on a Steam Deck that runs in Arch Linux.
Alternatively, you can set up a dual boot of Windows and just install Windows applications.
Plug it in a dock and voila.
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 13, 2025, 08:55:12 PMQuote from: viper37 on November 13, 2025, 07:28:31 PMQuote from: Grey Fox on November 12, 2025, 03:06:47 PMI'm quite excited to finally have a steam deck without the portability.
:showoff: :lol:
I wasn't being sarcastic. I have no use for a portable system.
Oh, sorry.
I fail to see the use beyond a PC. Install Linux Mint, Steam a few software to bypass those annoying launchers and you're good to go with much more performance.
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2025, 11:24:36 AMQuote from: Grey Fox on November 13, 2025, 08:55:12 PMQuote from: viper37 on November 13, 2025, 07:28:31 PMQuote from: Grey Fox on November 12, 2025, 03:06:47 PMI'm quite excited to finally have a steam deck without the portability.
:showoff: :lol:
I wasn't being sarcastic. I have no use for a portable system.
Oh, sorry.
I fail to see the use beyond a PC. Install Linux Mint, Steam a few software to bypass those annoying launchers and you're good to go with much more performance.
It's a niche product. We all have our own special usecase.
I am looking for a PC-based console-like livingroom/couch experience. At a cheaper price point than what is currently offered from those mini pc.
Saw it called the GabeCube :lol:
To be fair if my kid was old enough for pc games I could see the appeal.
Quote from: Tamas on November 15, 2025, 03:27:38 AMTo be fair if my kid was old enough for pc games I could see the appeal.
I'm thinking not too long.... When did I get my mega drive? 4? 5?
Ive definitely got some stuff on steam that is child appropriate. Sonic for instance.
Every X box game is on PC now
Most PS games are also on PC. Except Astrobot, and some of the newer franchise games, but the latter will go to PC eventually.
Thus, a PC-based console like Steam Machine can play all the XB library, most of the PS library, and a ton more games neither of those consoles have.
The question isn't so much why one would buy the Valve machine, but why if someone wants to buy a console gaming machine, you would buy any other console instead? (Switch is its own category)
There are some answers:
1. Steam Machine probably can't natively download and run games from GamePass unless you install Windows on it.
2. You really want one or more of the few PS exclusives left and can't wait for the PC port.
3. The Valve box will require some setting tweaking to fully optimize performance.
Those are significant considerations for some and perhaps many, but otherwise the Valve box seems superior. Bigger potential library, mostly cheaper games through various Steam sale and Steam key sale possibilities, it can expand storage cheaply through micro SD, AND you can hot transfer SD cards from the box, to Steam Deck, and to the new VR headset.
We'll see how the pricing ends up . . .
Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2025, 03:14:29 AMSaw it called the GabeCube :lol:
Nintendo suing in T minus...
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2025, 01:33:32 PMEvery X box game is on PC now
Most PS games are also on PC. Except Astrobot, and some of the newer franchise games, but the latter will go to PC eventually.
Thus, a PC-based console like Steam Machine can play all the XB library, most of the PS library, and a ton more games neither of those consoles have.
The question isn't so much why one would buy the Valve machine, but why if someone wants to buy a console gaming machine, you would buy any other console instead? (Switch is its own category)
There are some answers:
1. Steam Machine probably can't natively download and run games from GamePass unless you install Windows on it.
2. You really want one or more of the few PS exclusives left and can't wait for the PC port.
3. The Valve box will require some setting tweaking to fully optimize performance.
Those are significant considerations for some and perhaps many, but otherwise the Valve box seems superior. Bigger potential library, mostly cheaper games through various Steam sale and Steam key sale possibilities, it can expand storage cheaply through micro SD, AND you can hot transfer SD cards from the box, to Steam Deck, and to the new VR headset.
We'll see how the pricing ends up . . .
4: better graphic resolution than console.
Performance seems likely to be in line with PS5 (not the pro). There will be more control over graphical options but it won't be ahead in raw power and it will fall behind when the new consoles release.
At this point though the real question is how much RAM Valve secured in advance.
I wonder to what extent developers are making their games with this "standard" in mind.
Already it has been the trend as long as pc games have been a thing that they steadily become ever more standardised. But I do wonder if steam deck and now this has saw this pick up.
I've also noticed over the past 10-15 years the rate of development from game to game has slowed to a crawl.
A game from 10 years go is not too noticeably different to a new one today. Go back to the 2000s and could you say that? - I wonder whether ram joining graphics cards as overly expensive luxuries will further slow this.
I'm tempted by the Steam Machine. If the price is good (say, ~$600-$800), I can go with that and get a lower-spec laptop to replace my aging MacBook Pro (vintage mid-2012 version!). Most games I play are older or have low requirements so the Machine should handle them with ease, and I can connect it to my TV.
If the price is too high, or I feel like really splurging, then I'll likely go with a higher-end gaming laptop. I like the look of Framework's 16 inch laptop.
Or, if the death of the consumer RAM industry destroys the home computer market, I'll just satisfy myself with my backlog of classic computer games. My Apple IIGS is already maxxed out with over 3 megs of RAM, so it'll never need an upgrade. ;)
Launch is delayed, from "early" 2026, to "first half" of 2026, with Valve saying the pricing and launch date would have been announced by now but for the RAMpocolypse.
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steam_hardware/announcements/detail/625565405086220584
Yep. That Steam Machine will probably cost more than a PC would a short time ago thanks to RAMpocolypse.
Over 1k USD makes no sense tho.
Optimistic read is that they are delaying because they want to hit a reasonable price point and they need to make sure they have enough supply at the right cost.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 05, 2026, 09:17:16 PMOptimistic read is that they are delaying because they want to hit a reasonable price point and they need to make sure they have enough supply at the right cost.
Nope.
Yeah. Canadian price point is 1500$ to 2000$.
LOL at paying that much for a console.
The price could be justified if it could actually reliably deliver 60fps at 4K resolution across the steam library, as advertised, but it instead it's using a 3+ year-old mobile graphics card plus massive upscaling to hit the performance level of a base PS5.
The device either should have either been shipped last year at 600-700 or should have been delayed and redesigned to use an RDNA 4 level chip.
Reviews are lackluster.
I was looking at various Prime Day promotions and Minisforum is advertising their G1 mini-PC, which makes an interesting point of comparison because it's the same price (1439 US) as the highest end Steam Machine.
The Minisforum has twice the RAM and a better GPU (RTX 5060) and should perform around 50% better.
However . . . the Minisforum is larger, less aesthetically attractive (my opinion but I think well based), and runs very loud which makes it less desirable in a living room. It also has half the storage of the high trim SM, and doesn't come with the Steam Controller. It runs an NVIDIA CPU and so can't run Steam OS at all (and likely won't run other Linux distros well) which means running whatever state the "Windows X Box Experience" happens to be in. Clearly the Minisforum offers the superior price/performance ratio and better upgradability, but the SM has it beat on everything else.
Taking all in, it does seem like the SM is priced around what the market is for small form factor prebuilt PCs. It's just that the PC market utterly sucks.
That said, I think Valve should have taken a bit of hit to get the price under 1000 for at least the base version. It's clear they are supply constrained, and they probably are thinking there is no reason to cut price. But the $$ either way aren't significant for them as a company. If they priced it lower, they could have gotten the benefit of better press and consumer FOMO. It's much better to have people frustrated because they can't secure limited supply of a desirable object, then people frustrated because they feel they are being ripped off by inflated prices.
Valve made the same mistake than the at previous iteration of the steam machines. They sell a PC when they should be selling a console.
I think they have the right idea now, because the distinctions between consoles and PCs are breaking down, and the very raison d'etre of having a proprietary hardware console is in question. It's Valve that really made that happen, with Steam OS. MSFT is recognizing that now with their next console, which is basically going to be a consolized PC running a windows variant. And the concept of having a consolized PC in the living room that runs all PC games (including all Steam games) without being stuck in the console walled garden is great.
Where it breaks down is that Sony and MSFT traditionally sell their consoles at or near break-even and try to make it back on subs and software sales. Valve obviously could do that as buyers on their hardware are probably going to buy incremental Steam games. I think they did come close to that with Steam Deck, which was very competitively priced until a couple months ago. But they aren't doing it with SM.
I don't think Helix will have Windows and 3rd party stores anymore. Imo, its not a good idea. Exclusives games in a somewhat close system is what drives enthusiasm for your ecosystem and that's the only way to profit in the platform holder game.
PC gamer built an equivalent spec mini PC for 160 less.
But again, it's bigger, louder, doesn't have a micro Sd slot, doesn't have hdmi CEC, doesn't have the internal antenna that connects to steam controller. And you have to build it.
Add in valves costs to provide support and the margin isn't that far out.
Part of the appeal of steam deck is not the power but that it is such a standard and stuff just *works*
Examples aren't coming to me but I'm sure I recall in the past getting off brand tech and it being more of a faff.
I just can't imagine wanting to spend that much. Like I'm still put off by PS5/Switch 2 price tags when my PS4 and Switch work perfectly fine. -_-
The costs of RAM, storage, GPUs are really off the charts. I saw another guy try to do a DIY version of Steam Machine; he crammed a much better GPU into the package, but it hit US $1400 on a DIY build. It's just what the components cost now.
Aye, I do sort of observe that developers are paying attention a little. There seems to be less of a push for the flashest and most demanding graphics these days.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 25, 2026, 07:18:58 PMI was looking at various Prime Day promotions and Minisforum is advertising their G1 mini-PC, which makes an interesting point of comparison because it's the same price (1439 US) as the highest end Steam Machine.
The Minisforum has twice the RAM and a better GPU (RTX 5060) and should perform around 50% better.
However . . . the Minisforum is larger, less aesthetically attractive (my opinion but I think well based), and runs very loud which makes it less desirable in a living room. It also has half the storage of the high trim SM, and doesn't come with the Steam Controller. It runs an NVIDIA CPU and so can't run Steam OS at all (and likely won't run other Linux distros well) which means running whatever state the "Windows X Box Experience" happens to be in. Clearly the Minisforum offers the superior price/performance ratio and better upgradability, but the SM has it beat on everything else.
Taking all in, it does seem like the SM is priced around what the market is for small form factor prebuilt PCs. It's just that the PC market utterly sucks.
That said, I think Valve should have taken a bit of hit to get the price under 1000 for at least the base version. It's clear they are supply constrained, and they probably are thinking there is no reason to cut price. But the $$ either way aren't significant for them as a company. If they priced it lower, they could have gotten the benefit of better press and consumer FOMO. It's much better to have people frustrated because they can't secure limited supply of a desirable object, then people frustrated because they feel they are being ripped off by inflated prices.
They are all missing important points.
Yes, an individual can build something better for a similar price. It's easy.
But it's going to be bigger. And you can't build 5 million of those things.
That's the constraints Valve was working with. They ask for ram price, supplier gives one, it's yes or no and if it's no they never talk to them again. Simple as them.
I look at the prices on pcpartpicker, I buy when I want to buy. I have no time constraints (except when there's a failure), I wait for specials, I build my computer over some months, a few parts at a time.
They have some discounts for volume, but not that much, and they can't get ram or GPUs for the quantity they need it.
As for subsidizing the price, it's something they could have done, but I think they're playing a very long game here.
They ain't betting on Steam Machine to compete with Xbox or PS, but they want SteamOS to be a real competitor to Windows one day. and for that, they need to generate some buzz toward Linux. That will attrack peripheral makers attention (Nvidia... also, Broadcom) and force their hand a bit to work with them on drivers.
This is already slowly working, and, combined with the AI buzz, server demands, Nvidia is finally having a dedicated team working on Linux drivers for their products.
Sometime early 2027, their should be much better Linux drivers for SteamOS (Arch) and Linux in general when it comes to all Nvidia products, and have them maintained.
Right now, it's still hit and miss what is working with Nvidia. And anti-cheat is a problem on Linux.
Having Steam Deck and Steam machines out there adopted by a few million users sends a message that SteamOS is now a viable platform, more users download it for their PC, more people join Steam for PC gaming, more and more gamers are curious about Linux and that's a win for them, eventually.
They're the only gaming "store" that is working on Linux, for now. And no matter who comes after (say, Epic), they're still the first and will already have a huge advantage to making their platform just work. Epic is just thinking at hiring a developer to work on Linux anti-cheat now. They have a lot of catch-up to do.
Viper I agree with pretty much everything you said except the conclusion. I do think Valve is playing the long game but that's the very reason they erred in pricing.
The reality appears to be that there are severe supply constraints, so the profit impact is essentially irrelevant regardless of the price. We are talking about a swing of 10-20 million in margin for a company making over $3 billion a year.
If the goal is to generate buzz and PR, then pricing the SM low would have been the best way to do that. Instead they are getting ripped all over the internet, fairly or not. It seems like a huge missed opportunity.
Sharma at MSFT is holding her cards close but it is not inconceivable MSFT could release a "Helix" that is far more powerful than SM at the same price, and is functionally a PC but either gimps or blocks the Steam store. At the same time MSFT: (1) relaunches their XBox gaming store, with preferential pricing for their substantial publisher catalog, and (2) offers third party publishers distribution with only a 10 percent cut (compared to Valve's 30). Granted, it's MSFT so they probably don't do that, or badly screw it up if they try. But if they did do that and pulled it off, it's the one thing that could legit threaten Valve's effective PC gaming distribution monopoly.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 01, 2026, 12:54:42 PMSharma at MSFT is holding her cards close but it is not inconceivable MSFT could release a "Helix" that is far more powerful than SM at the same price, and is functionally a PC but either gimps or blocks the Steam store. At the same time MSFT: (1) relaunches their XBox gaming store, with preferential pricing for their substantial publisher catalog, and (2) offers third party publishers distribution with only a 10 percent cut (compared to Valve's 30). Granted, it's MSFT so they probably don't do that, or badly screw it up if they try. But if they did do that and pulled it off, it's the one thing that could legit threaten Valve's effective PC gaming distribution monopoly.
They are getting ripped, but at the same time:
- it's sold out in Asia
- on Ebay, you can find pre-sale spot for the Steam Machine selling at 2000-2500 US$ and it seems there are takers. I've only looked for Canada, and I see a few offerings at 2500-3500$ CDN, pre-sale, sold when it is delivered.
It is hard to say it's a total failure. Hard core PC gamers won't buy it, but... I would not have bought this at any price. There is certainly a niche for this.
Would they have sold more by lowering the price? For sure. But they wanted to create a buzz with a few machines, imho. It's possible their next iteration will see a reduced price and they'll be ready to take a loss on each machine sold to gain even more consumers.
If they sell a few millions and SteamOS finds itself on a few million other machines, Valve will have won round 1. Round 2 might see them releasing better hardware at a better price in a few years.
But it's hard to tell with Micron having locked its ram sales for 5 years, and ram becoming a commodity like oil.
Sure it's sold out because supply right now is probably around 20K. I highly doubt total production run for 2026 will get anywhere near 1 million units.
The ebay listings only prove that there are at least few hundred Valve fanboys in the world rich enough that any price in the 4 figures is trivial.
RAM is expensive now because demand outstrips supply. It will continue as long as the AI hyperscaling complex keeps its Wylie Coyote legs pumping despite having run out of ledge. It could go 6 months, a year, two years maybe. But if a crash comes, there will be a lot of surplus to requirements RAM dumped on the market and a lot of excess supply without ready takers.
I live with the cope that the AI scalers will not buy the RAM they have earmarked. A lot of excess supply & capacity is going to materialize over night one of these days.