Poll
Question:
Who is the greatest NBA player of all time?
Option 1: Wilt Chamberlain
votes: 1
Option 2: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
votes: 3
Option 3: Michael Jordan
votes: 9
Option 4: Koby Bryant
votes: 0
Option 5: LeBron James
votes: 3
Option 6: Someone else
votes: 1
Option 7: IDGAF
votes: 6
If I could be like Mike...
Kareem, though I admit I probably take into consideration him also being arguably the greatest High School and College player of all time. That probably makes him the greatest Basketball player ever but maybe strictly NBA only Mike or LeBron are better...but even then not by much.
This is a hard one, because the rules, the league and the circumstances of the game have changed so much over the years.
Kareem was on the jive plane with Frank Drebin, that has to count for something.
Yes, clearly Roger Murdock.
Oh, he really played basketball?
Quote from: Maladict on January 13, 2025, 09:37:28 AMKareem was on the jive plane with Frank Drebin, that has to count for something.
It's funny how life works, isn't it.
Apparently Kareem accepted the role on Airplane! because he wanted to buy some fancy oriental rug.
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/off-the-court/the-absurd-reason-behind-kareem-abdul-jabbars-demand-for-a-5000-salary-increase-in-airplane
I had to look it up - Kareem retired in 1989, but with most of his success in the 70s and early 80s. While I know of his as a basketball player - what he might be most famous for these days is Airplane!
Much like Wilt Chamberlain is famous for claiming to sleep with 20,000 women.
I'm going to vote for Lebron.
Quote from: Maladict on January 13, 2025, 09:37:28 AMKareem was on the jive plane with Frank Drebin, that has to count for something.
And per Slam Dunk Ernest, the Archangel of Basketball.
Quote from: Barrister on January 13, 2025, 02:40:29 PMWhile I know of his as a basketball player - what he might be most famous for these days is Airplane!
It still is the only thing I know about him. Same with OJ in Naked Gun really, until, well...
Quote from: Maladict on January 14, 2025, 09:01:49 AMQuote from: Barrister on January 13, 2025, 02:40:29 PMWhile I know of his as a basketball player - what he might be most famous for these days is Airplane!
It still is the only thing I know about him. Same with OJ in Naked Gun really, until, well...
I'm guessing you are just too young to have known him as a basketball player. Same with BB. It wouldn't be possible for you to have seen play and not remember him as a basketball player.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 14, 2025, 10:04:04 AMI'm guessing you are just too young to have known him as a basketball player. Same with BB. It wouldn't be possible for you to have seen play and not remember him as a basketball player.
Well yeah, but also because American sports just weren't broadcast much, if at all.
I never watched Jordan or Shaquille play, I only knew they were famous basketball players because of Space Jam and Nike.
Quote from: Barrister on January 13, 2025, 02:40:29 PMMuch like Wilt Chamberlain is famous for a supporting role in Conan the Destroyer. Tasked of guarding the virginity of a maiden princess, no less. :P
Fixed! :D
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on January 14, 2025, 02:55:58 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 13, 2025, 02:40:29 PMMuch like Wilt Chamberlain is famous for a supporting role in Conan the Destroyer. Tasked of guarding the virginity of a maiden princess, no less. :P
Fixed! :D
I did not know that! :o
Conan the Destroyer is not, however, a very good movie. -_-
Kareem was a High School All American in 1963, 1964, 1965. High School Basketball Player of the Year in 1964 and 1965. His 1963-1964 Power Memorial Academy was considered the greatest High School Basketball team of the 20th century, arguably the greatest of all time. His team won 71 games in a row and went 79-2 during his time there.
In his three years starting for UCLA in College he was unanimous First Team All-American and the National Player of the Year all three years: 1967, 1968, 1969. His was Final Four MVP all three years. UCLA won the National Championship all three years. UCLA went 88-2 during his time there. He was so dominant they outlawed slam dunks in a vain attempt in a vain attempt to make the games competitive. Oh and the 1967 UCLA team is generally considered one of the greatest College Basketball teams ever.
And then his NBA Career. Rookie of the Year, six time NBA champion, six time MVP, 19 time All star, two time scoring champion, one time rebound champion, four time blocking champion. A 20 year career where he averaged 24.6 points and 11.2 rebounds a game. Oh and of course his 1971 Milwaukee Bucks team and his 1987 LA Lakers team both considered among the greatest NBA teams ever.
I mean, he only played for four teams his entire career and made one of those teams among the greatest teams ever everywhere he went. Because he was on it.
And he was in Airplane as well. So much better than Space Jam.
So as I understand the argument for LeBron though...
He can't touch Kareem for college because he didn't go to college. Rules were different (and are different again today).
He's a 4 time NBA champion - and 4 time NBA FInals MVP. He has led 3 different teams to a total of 10 NBA finals. He may well set the all-time most games played - and is doing so not just as a peripheral player but dominating.
He's the NBA's all-time leading scorer.
He was in Space Jam 2.
Plus he has won the NBA Cup - something none of these other contenders can say. :P
Quote from: Barrister on January 14, 2025, 05:56:09 PMSo as I understand the argument for LeBron though...
He can't touch Kareem for college because he didn't go to college. Rules were different (and are different again today).
He's a 4 time NBA champion - and 4 time NBA FInals MVP. He has led 3 different teams to a total of 10 NBA finals. He may well set the all-time most games played - and is doing so not just as a peripheral player but dominating.
He's the NBA's all-time leading scorer.
He was in Space Jam 2.
Plus he has won the NBA Cup - something none of these other contenders can say. :P
LeBron's claim is longevity plus his mastery of all phases of the game.
It's not just that he's the #1 scorer, it's that he's also #4 in assists, he's #8 in steals (and only needs ten more to move into sixth), and #28 in rebounds (likely to end the season twenty-fifth).
If you want to talk about players who mastered all phases of the game then that number is reduced to three.
Jordan and Bill Russel, who surprisingly didn't get shortlisted here.
Jordan is the GOAT for being dominant in all phases. Russel was not as dominant an offensive player.
Abdul Jabbar has a different claim, he was so dominant as an offensive player that he literally changed the game.
Quote from: Barrister on January 14, 2025, 04:04:15 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on January 14, 2025, 02:55:58 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 13, 2025, 02:40:29 PMMuch like Wilt Chamberlain is famous for a supporting role in Conan the Destroyer. Tasked of guarding the virginity of a maiden princess, no less. :P
Fixed! :D
I did not know that! :o
Conan the Destroyer is not, however, a very good movie. -_-
It's not as bad as I remembered it, but it's definitively a huge step down from
Conan the Barbarian, with the lame attempts at humor.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on January 15, 2025, 10:22:24 AMQuote from: Barrister on January 14, 2025, 04:04:15 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on January 14, 2025, 02:55:58 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 13, 2025, 02:40:29 PMMuch like Wilt Chamberlain is famous for a supporting role in Conan the Destroyer. Tasked of guarding the virginity of a maiden princess, no less. :P
Fixed! :D
I did not know that! :o
Conan the Destroyer is not, however, a very good movie. -_-
It's not as bad as I remembered it, but it's definitively a huge step down from Conan the Barbarian, with the lame attempts at humor.
Surely you didn't think I was talking about Conan the Barbarian, did you? :o
Quote from: Barrister on January 15, 2025, 10:49:51 AMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on January 15, 2025, 10:22:24 AMQuote from: Barrister on January 14, 2025, 04:04:15 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on January 14, 2025, 02:55:58 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 13, 2025, 02:40:29 PMMuch like Wilt Chamberlain is famous for a supporting role in Conan the Destroyer. Tasked of guarding the virginity of a maiden princess, no less. :P
Fixed! :D
I did not know that! :o
Conan the Destroyer is not, however, a very good movie. -_-
It's not as bad as I remembered it, but it's definitively a huge step down from Conan the Barbarian, with the lame attempts at humor.
Surely you didn't think I was talking about Conan the Barbarian, did you? :o
Crom laughs at your misunderstanding attempt!
One thing is clear is that people in this thread know a lot more about Arnold Schwarzenegger movies and than they do about basketball.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 15, 2025, 06:22:50 AMIf you want to talk about players who mastered all phases of the game then that number is reduced to three.
Jordan and Bill Russel, who surprisingly didn't get shortlisted here.
Jordan is the GOAT for being dominant in all phases. Russel was not as dominant an offensive player.
Another player that fits the all-round category is David Robinson, very similar to Russell. Same position, outstanding defender, regularly among the top rebounders, and even generated a lot of his assists earlier in his career. And a more prolific scorer than Russell. Very different eras but similar players in a lot of ways. They even played a similar number of games in the career.
I was the Chamberlain vote BTW.
Cutting through the controversy, the reality is that at his peak he dominated the game like no one else before or since. He basically broke the NBA.
By the mid-60s as defenses started to swarm him and the scoring went down to "only" the mid-20s, his assists shot up and he reeled off his MVP streak.
Even at the end of his career, with his body breaking down, he still did ridiculous things. His shooting percentages in the last two years were 65 and 72 percent, and he was still leading the league in rebounds. Blocked shots were not yet tracked in the NBA but a retrospective analysis found that during those last years he was AVERAGING 8.8 blocks per game.
Yeah he couldn't shoot free throws, but every other aspect of his game was so dominant, the mind struggles to grasp it.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 15, 2025, 12:39:45 PMI was the Chamberlain vote BTW.
Cutting through the controversy, the reality is that at his peak he dominated the game like no one else before he since. He basically broke the NBA.
This always comes up in GOAT discussions though - peak performance versus career length.
LeBron is still putting up big numbers - as a 40 year old. He's been one of the top players, if not THE top player, for the entirety of his 22 seasons in the league.
(Now I'm mostly trolling as I don't follow basketball. But LeBron James is surely in the conversation as the GOAT).
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 15, 2025, 12:27:36 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on January 15, 2025, 06:22:50 AMIf you want to talk about players who mastered all phases of the game then that number is reduced to three.
Jordan and Bill Russel, who surprisingly didn't get shortlisted here.
Jordan is the GOAT for being dominant in all phases. Russel was not as dominant an offensive player.
Another player that fits the all-round category is David Robinson, very similar to Russell. Same position, outstanding defender, regularly among the top rebounders, and even generated a lot of his assists earlier in his career. And a more prolific scorer than Russell. Very different eras but similar players in a lot of ways. They even played a similar number of games in the career.
Yes, I agree with that. Another similarity between those two is making their team mates better. Duncan is often quoted that Robinson taught him how to be an NBA player.
Quote from: Barrister on January 15, 2025, 12:46:59 PMThis always comes up in GOAT discussions though - peak performance versus career length.
Agreed, LeBron and Abdul-Jabbar are best candidates on career value. LeBron's year-to-year consistency, in particular, is extraordinary. The only thing I can think of that comparable is Eddie Collins in baseball.
I'll pitch in to discuss the GOAT film career.
Wilt Chamberlain: Conan the Destroyer
MJ: Space Jam
LeBron: Space Jam 2
Kareem Abdul Jabbar: Airplane!, Game of Death (and a bunch of cameos).
Kareem carries this one comfortably.
Quote from: celedhring on January 16, 2025, 02:09:54 PMI'll pitch in to discuss the GOAT film career.
Wilt Chamberlain: Conan the Destroyer
MJ: Space Jam
LeBron: Space Jam 2
Kareem Abdul Jabbar: Airplane!, Game of Death (and a bunch of cameos).
Kareem carries this one comfortably.
Kobe won an Oscar :ph34r:
Quote from: Maladict on January 16, 2025, 04:44:12 PMQuote from: celedhring on January 16, 2025, 02:09:54 PMI'll pitch in to discuss the GOAT film career.
Wilt Chamberlain: Conan the Destroyer
MJ: Space Jam
LeBron: Space Jam 2
Kareem Abdul Jabbar: Airplane!, Game of Death (and a bunch of cameos).
Kareem carries this one comfortably.
Kobe won an Oscar :ph34r:
That's a good response! :o
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 15, 2025, 06:22:50 AMBill Russel, who surprisingly didn't get shortlisted here.
I saw a YouTube video where the guy scoured interviews of current & former NBA players being asked this question. These were the guys who received votes.
Quote from: Maladict on January 16, 2025, 04:44:12 PMQuote from: celedhring on January 16, 2025, 02:09:54 PMI'll pitch in to discuss the GOAT film career.
Wilt Chamberlain: Conan the Destroyer
MJ: Space Jam
LeBron: Space Jam 2
Kareem Abdul Jabbar: Airplane!, Game of Death (and a bunch of cameos).
Kareem carries this one comfortably.
Kobe won an Oscar :ph34r:
Forgot about him :D
But I don't think anybody on here (or the world at large) will care much for a 5-minute animated film, as good as it might be.
FWIW I think that the best film performance by an NBA player is Ryan Allen in He Got Game, but I don't think he'll be in any GOAT conversation.
Honorary mention for Kevin Garnett in Uncut Gems, but he's playing himself :P
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 15, 2025, 04:12:35 PMQuote from: Barrister on January 15, 2025, 12:46:59 PMThis always comes up in GOAT discussions though - peak performance versus career length.
Agreed, LeBron and Abdul-Jabbar are best candidates on career value. LeBron's year-to-year consistency, in particular, is extraordinary. The only thing I can think of that comparable is Eddie Collins in baseball.
Kareem and LeBron are 1 and 2 in Win Shares and the rest aren't close.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 16, 2025, 10:45:29 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on January 15, 2025, 06:22:50 AMBill Russel, who surprisingly didn't get shortlisted here.
I saw a YouTube video where the guy scoured interviews of current & former NBA players being asked this question. These were the guys who received votes.
On YouTube you say, a guy on YouTube? Well then he must have been right.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 17, 2025, 08:38:20 AMQuote from: Eddie Teach on January 16, 2025, 10:45:29 PMI saw a YouTube video where the guy scoured interviews of current & former NBA players being asked this question. These were the guys who received votes.
On YouTube you say, a guy on YouTube? Well then he must have been right.
This isn't an issue of "right" and "wrong." It's just an issue of what criteria ET used to compile the list. If you personally think that his choices are "wrong," then just start your own poll with your own "right" choices. It's free.
Quote from: grumbler on January 17, 2025, 09:00:25 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on January 17, 2025, 08:38:20 AMQuote from: Eddie Teach on January 16, 2025, 10:45:29 PMI saw a YouTube video where the guy scoured interviews of current & former NBA players being asked this question. These were the guys who received votes.
On YouTube you say, a guy on YouTube? Well then he must have been right.
This isn't an issue of "right" and "wrong." It's just an issue of what criteria ET used to compile the list. If you personally think that his choices are "wrong," then just start your own poll with your own "right" choices. It's free.
Or, and hear me out on this, I can say that any list of the NBA players that does not contain one of the greatest NBA players isn't good list.
And I can criticize somebody for deciding who to put on the list for simply following some guy on YouTube.
Further, if you wanted to think about this a little deeper, you might contemplate how people are affected by what they see on social media.
Bill Russell himself called Wilt the greatest. Also he never averaged 20 points. Awesome defender though.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 17, 2025, 04:38:50 PMBill Russell himself called Wilt the greatest. Also he never averaged 20 points. Awesome defender though.
Yeah, JR's contention that Wilt was the greatest has a lot of merit to it. One of the endearing things about Russell is he was very modest. He never claimed any status for himself. He was always a team first kind of player. Which, I suppose, is why I always argue his case when threads like this come up.
And to JR's point about The Admiral, another characteristic Russell and him had in common.
Luka for AD and one 1st round pick.
New Mavs owner must be broke or on crack. WTF
Yeah, they traded young for old and brilliant generational player for has been.
They might be looking for a chance to win in the next year or two, but after that, the future of the Mavs looks pretty grim.
I mean, it's the NBA. It's not a real, competitive league. The whole point is to get any good player on a smaller-market, non-historic dynasty team onto the Lakers or Celtics and make another superteam.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 02, 2025, 04:55:42 AMLuka for AD and one 1st round pick.
New Mavs owner must be broke or on crack. WTF
Yeah. I am shocked.
My only explanation is that Luka demanded to be traded to the Lakers and the Dallas owner just got what he could get.
But why? Sure, the Mavs got trounced by the Celtics but I didn't think the logical conclusion was that Dallas had no chance in the future and Luka needed to leave.
I don't know man. This seems really really bad for the NBA though. Can we just let the Lakers suck a bit? It would be good for them.
Quote from: Valmy on February 02, 2025, 03:51:33 PMQuote from: jimmy olsen on February 02, 2025, 04:55:42 AMLuka for AD and one 1st round pick.
New Mavs owner must be broke or on crack. WTF
Yeah. I am shocked.
My only explanation is that Luka demanded to be traded to the Lakers and the Dallas owner just got what he could get.
But why? Sure, the Mavs got trounced by the Celtics but I didn't think the logical conclusion was that Dallas had no chance in the future and Luka needed to leave.
I don't know man. This seems really really bad for the NBA though. Can we just let the Lakers suck a bit? It would be good for them.
Apparently Luka didn't ask for it and they didn't even give him a heads up before the trade.
Rumors that the new owner wants to kill interest in the team so she can move it to Vegas.
Doncic was up for a big contract boost, and all of his numbers are down so far this year. I'm not completely surprised Dallas decided to move him; the return is harder to explain.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 02, 2025, 08:15:02 PMRumors that the new owner wants to kill interest in the team so she can move it to Vegas.
Who on earth would want to trade Dallas for Las Vegas as your home market?
Isn't Vegas already nearly certain to get a team whenever the NBA expands, anyway?
Quote from: celedhring on February 03, 2025, 04:29:12 PMIsn't Vegas already nearly certain to get a team whenever the NBA expands, anyway?
I thought that was Seattle?
Vegas made a certain sense when the NHL went in. They were the first pro team there, plus they had initial success, so they managed to build a genuine local following.
But now you have the Raiders, and soon the A's - isn't the market pretty saturated for what is a smallish metro area (minus all the tourists that is)? You go in as the Las Vegas Mavs (or whatever) - now you're the fourth pro team?
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2025, 04:36:22 PMQuote from: celedhring on February 03, 2025, 04:29:12 PMIsn't Vegas already nearly certain to get a team whenever the NBA expands, anyway?
I thought that was Seattle?
Vegas made a certain sense when the NHL went in. They were the first pro team there, plus they had initial success, so they managed to build a genuine local following.
But now you have the Raiders, and soon the A's - isn't the market pretty saturated for what is a smallish metro area (minus all the tourists that is)? You go in as the Las Vegas Mavs (or whatever) - now you're the fourth pro team?
I agree, Vegas doesn't really make sense, even if they build a casino attached to the arena.
But, if they do expansion, they'll bring in two teams at once, and as is, it's expected to be Seattle and Vegas.