My computer is getting old. I haven't upgraded the processor for a good 8 years or so. My current processor is a Intel Core i5-6600K. And its really beginning to show; even windows 11 doesn't want to be installed on my current computer.
Most stuff works but I haven't exactly tried higher end games from this decade and trying to play the star trek mod on stellaris- no luck with the biggest map.
So yeah.
Purely looking at my computer I need to upgrade at some point. Basically anything today should be better than this.
Looking at the market at large however, anyone keep an eye on this stuff and know if now is a 'optimum' time to do the upgrade or is there some big release due that should change things a lot?
As I understand things intel isn't great at the moment and the AMD route is better (reviews say so though raw numbers seem to show intel as better- https://pc-builds.com/compare/cpu/0Fs/1nt/1uf/)?- any recommendation?
The motherboard would have to come out with the processor so I'll be needing a new one of those too so I suppose same question applies (not sure it matters there so much). Though hopefully my RAM (DDR4 3200mhz) should still work with something modern?- I've got a lot of it so don't fancy replacing it all.
My graphics card I'll be holding onto as its a few years younger.
I think AMD processors, the 7800X3D in particular, are in a bit of shortage and the prices are high. Don't know about UK specifically though.
This is similar to what I have.
Good for 1440p gaming:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/jYWFBL
"Optimum time", is hard to say. In North America, it's Black Friday. In the UK, no idea.
I'm going to have to upgrade. My PC doesn't have a TPM and I'll need to upgrade ahead of Windows 10 ending support. I hate Windows 11 though.
I want a new GPU to play Baldur's Gate, but would need to buy a new mobo, processor, etc so I may as well just get a new one.
Sniffing around I see talk of new releases at the end of October which should disrupt prices.
Then there's black Friday. Might aim for then.
Also though Intel performs better on paper apparently it's reliability sucks and they overheat a lot which means in practice amd is better.
No sign of this processor being out of stock.
Any idea what to look for in motherboards? I've never really gotten that.
It's a weird moment in time. I bought this tablet 8 years ago, with 8GB RAM and 256GB RAM: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/at/en/products/tablets/miix-series/miix-700-12isk/solutions/pd104073-product-overview-ideapad-miix-700-12isk
I got it as a basic little work tablet but mostly as media viewer. To this day it still runs fine, only needed to replace charger cable (and battery life isn't great anymore, but fine).
Considering its age I was looking at replacements recently. But except for a better CPU there's not really anything like it out there in the price range of what I paid at the time (granted, it was EUR 999 in 2016).
I did a similar comparison for my 4 year old PC with its 3080 GTX card, and a real upgrade would cost me about 4000-4500 EUR if I want to go similarly high end as this one was when I bought it. :wacko:
For the 1st time ever I think I will actually change my CPU without changing my motherboard. I have a B450 chipset and it supports Zen 3 architecture.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 20, 2024, 07:42:32 PMI'm going to have to upgrade. My PC doesn't have a TPM and I'll need to upgrade ahead of Windows 10 ending support. I hate Windows 11 though.
Explorer Patcher + Start11. Does wonders.
Quote from: Josquius on September 21, 2024, 06:16:33 AMSniffing around I see talk of new releases at the end of October which should disrupt prices.
Then there's black Friday. Might aim for then.
Also though Intel performs better on paper apparently it's reliability sucks and they overheat a lot which means in practice amd is better.
No sign of this processor being out of stock.
Any idea what to look for in motherboards? I've never really gotten that.
B650, if you aim for the middle-end. The most expensive boards often have features that you aren't likely to use and they don't perform any better. The lower end board are just too cheap, they will perform badly if you ever try to overclock your processor or RAM, or if you need another processor than a 7800X3D that draws more power.
Thanks.
How would you choose between the bazillion different B650s?
Find your must have features and go from there.
Personally, I like Asus motherboard, for many reasons but #1 is that I know their UEFI utility quite deeply, and usually choose the 150$CA price point.
Quote from: Josquius on September 22, 2024, 02:29:54 PMThanks.
How would you choose between the bazillion different B650s?
Do as Grey Fox did.
Start by choosing how many USB 3.1/3.2 ports you need of, how many USB 2.0 ports, how many M.2 slots for your SSD you need, how many SATA ports you need, any kind of special feature you may want (front USB-C, front USB 3.1 connectors for the case, etc).
Input your variables in pcpartpicker.com and look at your options.
Asrock has some good quality motherboards, but it has a very rudimentary BIOS.
Gigabyte has a confusing BIOS, especially for beginners, but they do have some solid motherboards, particularly the AORUS. It takes a while to get used to that BIOS.
MSI has a good bios and a good quality build but it is often very pricey hardware.
Asus has an excellent bios but its quality has dropped noticeably in the later years and they often refuse warranty claiming "user induced damage". It happened to me recently, it took me many months to resolve the issue. I wasn't alone, since there's an hardware channel I follow that made a piece and a follow-up on them about these issues.
Biostar does not seem to be sold in Canada, so I don't really know about them.
Ah.
Checking up I got my history wrong.
It wasn't the graphics card I replaced at a later date, it was the motherboard and processor.
My motherboard and CPU are 8 years old. My graphics card is 10 (!!) years old.
Looks like I would be getting basically an entirely new computer here when the time comes.
Given my gaming time is limited I think I'll be holding off.
Quote from: Josquius on September 24, 2024, 07:59:18 AMGiven my gaming time is limited I think I'll be holding off.
Might be a wise decision.
The 9800X3D are rumored to be out in October. If that is true, there should be used 5800X3D and 7800X3D on the market at a decent price.
Nvidia's 5080 and 5090 are also just around the corner, so again, used 3080s and 4080s should be on the market.
Black Friday stuff is starting up it seems. Leaning Ryzen 5 7600X. Not sure if smart.
Setup I'm thinking is:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/N4Cqsp
(where I've got ridiculous old parts selected like the graphics card its just my current one)
Any idea if having 2 M2s is normally possible?- I don't get the myriad of different M2 types. Sometimes I see a motherboard apparently has multiple but on the photo clearly doesn't. Not sure of the right thing to be filtering for here. PC part picker doesn't seem to back track picking multiple drives to filtering out the motherboards (though it will do this if I put my old ram in there).
I wonder as I already have a 1tb drive and I do need more storage, thinking adding a 4 could be nice- if not then shall just get a regular ssd.
QuoteAny idea if having 2 M2s is normally possible?
Yes, it is usually possible, and this motherboard support it.
CPU and GPU are ok, but it really depends if you intend to upgrade your video card in the near future and therefore upgrade your resolution.
You will have to compromise on the quality of the textures. It's ok, but you need to know. If you keep the same GPU for a few more years, it's ok. If you plan on changing in a few months, I'd upgrade to a Ryzen 7 right away to avoid any bottleneck.
Memory:
You can go for this kit:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/Xg2WGX/gskill-trident-z5-neo-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-memory-f5-6000j3040g32gx2-tz5n
There's no real need to go above 6000mhz (6200mhz for 9800X3D) with AMD, performance gains are very minimal. CL30 6000mhz, CL30 will be fast enough.
The 5 means higher level graphics cards won't work? Whats the blocker there?
One of my work machine has 2 m2s. It works fine and boots fast.
I have found that there never really is a good time to upgrade CPUs. A lesson hard learned. The best processor, for its time, I have had was the Intel 2600K. Never ran hot, never budged despite being overclocked.
The AMD setup for the next year looks rather impressive. Intel's, well, a little less so. I bought the 7800-3D thingie from AMD, and for gaming, it is superb coupled with an AMD graphics card. You obviously do need some liquid cooling loop that will set you back close to 200 EUR, because if I was into conspiracies, I would think chip manufacturers were trying to make alternatives to the traditional stove.
25 minutes of CK3 and already at 85 degrees celsius. I'll just fry some eggs while getting that extra support for my murder scheme of that wife.
How is liquid cooling to install? I've never had that and I think my image of it is from the days when it was very unorthodox and required insane custom mods.
But strikes me as quite scary.
Quote from: Josquius on November 15, 2024, 03:45:36 AMHow is liquid cooling to install? I've never had that and I think my image of it is from the days when it was very unorthodox and required insane custom mods.
But strikes me as quite scary.
The ready made loops are really just plug and play. The software offered with it isn't amazing. Screwdriver, a bit of patience, and when that runs out, swearing, and you'll be good to go. They do come with what most specialists consider way too much cooling paste, though. The Corsair ones have never failed me, but now there is a plethora to choose from.
Also, the M2 drives are a dream. Run like clockwork, you just turn on your rig, and all is well.
Quote from: Josquius on November 14, 2024, 11:46:39 AMThe 5 means higher level graphics cards won't work? Whats the blocker there?
No higher level graphic cards will still work.
But GPU and CPU are linked with performance.
At 1080p, the CPU does the heavy lifting.
At 4k, the GPU (video card) does the heavy lifting.
However, when there is the sweet spot of 1440p, the middle ground, where both CPU and GPU will contribute about equally to your performance, and what's more, when you increase your texture resolution in game (higher graphic details), even at 4k, there is more strain on the CPU.
Right now, you have a very old GPU, so even if you bought the best CPU out there (9800X3D), you couldn't run your games at max detail, even in 1080p, unless it's a very old game. You'd need a graphic card with at least 8gb ram that supports DX11/12 for more modern games.
But when you change your GPU and you want to increase your resolution, suddenly, your CPU becomes a bottleneck: it's not powerful enough. It will work, it will just be a tad slower than a Ryzen 7.
If you're ok with that, that's fine.
Quote from: Norgy on November 14, 2024, 12:17:52 PMYou obviously do need some liquid cooling loop that will set you back close to 200 EUR, because if I was into conspiracies, I would think chip manufacturers were trying to make alternatives to the traditional stove.
No, you don't really.
A Thermalright Peerless Assassin is just enough. Regular fan cooler. These processors don't produce much heat.
I kept mine because I had it since before AM4, but it's unnecessary.
Thanks a bunch.
Updated.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/WgVm8Q
Considering if I do get a graphics card now (priority is for processor intensive tasks, but I will at some point in the next few years so might just do it now) there's the consideration of memory vs. clock speed which is a head scratcher.
On second thought, this cooler might be a little bit better, it spins faster:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/BRMMnQ/thermalright-phantom-spirit-evo-69-cfm-cpu-cooler-phantom-spirit-120-evo
I think you're good to go outside of that. :)
The memory is function of your CPU.
I.E, it has to match your CPU's capacities, it's totally irrelevant to your GPU.
Right now, AMD can support memory up to 6000mhz- 6200mhz without any hassle (enable XMP in BIOS and the memory timings are set up automatically). For speeds beyond that, like 8000mhz, it requires manual tuning. Not something I advise for beginners, even by following a Youtube guide. :)
6000mhz is considered to sweet spot for most CPU.
The speed difference you gain is minimal going from 6000 to 6200 or 6400 anyway. :)
Don't worry about it.
Prices just go up? I swear in the course of a day I rechecked my prospective new rig on PCPartsPicker and the CPU had gone up by 100 bucks.
Its gone up by 10, down by 20, and then back up by 15 in the last few hours. Bastards.
Quote from: viper37 on November 21, 2024, 11:37:49 AMOn second thought, this cooler might be a little bit better, it spins faster:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/BRMMnQ/thermalright-phantom-spirit-evo-69-cfm-cpu-cooler-phantom-spirit-120-evo
I think you're good to go outside of that. :)
The memory is function of your CPU.
I.E, it has to match your CPU's capacities, it's totally irrelevant to your GPU.
Right now, AMD can support memory up to 6000mhz- 6200mhz without any hassle (enable XMP in BIOS and the memory timings are set up automatically). For speeds beyond that, like 8000mhz, it requires manual tuning. Not something I advise for beginners, even by following a Youtube guide. :)
6000mhz is considered to sweet spot for most CPU.
The speed difference you gain is minimal going from 6000 to 6200 or 6400 anyway. :)
Don't worry about it.
Gpu memory I meant.
Seems to be a situation with some having higher memory, some higher clock, and so on.
I think real black friday is next week? Will see if anything happens.
Quote from: Josquius on November 24, 2024, 10:00:58 AMQuote from: viper37 on November 21, 2024, 11:37:49 AMOn second thought, this cooler might be a little bit better, it spins faster:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/BRMMnQ/thermalright-phantom-spirit-evo-69-cfm-cpu-cooler-phantom-spirit-120-evo
I think you're good to go outside of that. :)
The memory is function of your CPU.
I.E, it has to match your CPU's capacities, it's totally irrelevant to your GPU.
Right now, AMD can support memory up to 6000mhz- 6200mhz without any hassle (enable XMP in BIOS and the memory timings are set up automatically). For speeds beyond that, like 8000mhz, it requires manual tuning. Not something I advise for beginners, even by following a Youtube guide. :)
6000mhz is considered to sweet spot for most CPU.
The speed difference you gain is minimal going from 6000 to 6200 or 6400 anyway. :)
Don't worry about it.
Gpu memory I meant.
Seems to be a situation with some having higher memory, some higher clock, and so on.
I think real black friday is next week? Will see if anything happens.
Ah, sorry.
Well, 8gb vram is becoming a bit too tight even for 1080p gaming.
12-16gb is preferable.
Nvidia, AMD and Intel are launching their next generation of cards soon. Nvidia for the high end, Intel for the mid-range and low end.
1080p gaming: 12-16gb (AMD 6700XT, 6800XT, Nvidia 4070 Super)
1440p: 16-20gb (Nvidia 4070 Super, Nvidia 4070 TI Super, Nvidia 4080 Super, Nvidia AMD 7900XT)
4k: >20gb ( Nvidia 4080 Super, Nvidia AMD 7900XTX, Nvidia 4090)
Then there's ray tracing, which is mostly a gimmick, from the gamer's point of view, since it doesn't make much of a difference outside of a very few titles (3 or 4 titles as we speak). On this, Nvidia is the king. But you need their upscaling technology DLSS to make it work decently.
Upscaling:
FSR is made by AMD, compatible with Nvidia's card. to make it short, your game is rendered at 1080p and upscaled real time in 4k. It saves on GPU rendering power then to display elements. DLSS is the same, but exclusive to Nvidia. DLSS is still better looking than FSR, but both technologies introduce artifacts/ghosting in the image when there is fast movements, something purist will always contest, but my eyes can still see. I prefer native.
Framegen: Frame generation. The GPU's algorythm calculates frames and interpolate a "fake"* frame to speed up the rendering process. It is transparent to the eye. Both AMD and Nvidia have the tech with different names and it's working great on DX11/DX12/Vulkan games.
* they really just calculate the frame in advance
The new nVidia cards really interest me. I just have to sell my liver and kidney to get one, and, well, the market value of those is not that high.
Quote from: Norgy on November 26, 2024, 05:01:51 AMThe new nVidia cards really interest me. I just have to sell my liver and kidney to get one, and, well, the market value of those is not that high.
At least wait for the official reviews. :)
They will probably run less hot than, which card was it, the GTX 480 which was basically a furnace in a computer case?
Quote from: Norgy on November 26, 2024, 10:23:45 AMThey will probably run less hot than, which card was it, the GTX 480 which was basically a furnace in a computer case?
Hard to say. We only have rumors right now.
The tests of the new AMD 9800-3D (I may have the name wrong) look very promising.
And winter is coming. Time for a new furnace.
Quote from: Norgy on November 27, 2024, 10:42:50 AMThe tests of the new AMD 9800-3D (I may have the name wrong) look very promising.
And winter is coming. Time for a new furnace.
9800X3D.
It's 10-20% better than the 7800X3D in 1080p but it can be overclocked for even more performance.
The 7800X3D can't be overclocked though.
Differences in 1440p and 4k tend to be lower though. Still worth the upgrade from earlier generations or from an Intel platform.
I ordered a 9700. Damned price hikes.
With my job situation looking more secure and a recent windfall I'm finally planning to pull the trigger once I can get up the guts to do so.
But looking at £1000. Which is insane. Way more than I remember paying 10 years ago :cry:
OK, final checks before a trigger pull. Will aim to get this ordered and built for next week.
Any thoughts?
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/4rxJqH
Went up to 9700 processor as a minimal price increase, marginal performance increase, and savings in power usage.
Motherboard...seems OK though all much of a muchness.
The graphics card is one where I remain really unsure.
I've heard reports of Amazon selling dodgy equipment though not sure how reliable that is. Avoiding them where possible is also generally a good idea. Luckily one of the main competitors in computer bits is based not too far away so can go pick things up
Nvidia's latest generation has apparently had serious issues with performance.
I picked up a new AMD card at an eye-watering price. It is still in the original packaging, in case I need to sell all my valuables and run off to Brazil or Thailand.
Quote from: Josquius on April 10, 2025, 03:26:55 AMOK, final checks before a trigger pull. Will aim to get this ordered and built for next week.
Any thoughts?
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/4rxJqH
Went up to 9700 processor as a minimal price increase, marginal performance increase, and savings in power usage.
Motherboard...seems OK though all much of a muchness.
The graphics card is one where I remain really unsure.
I've heard reports of Amazon selling dodgy equipment though not sure how reliable that is. Avoiding them where possible is also generally a good idea. Luckily one of the main competitors in computer bits is based not too far away so can go pick things up
With Amazon, you need to double check that you are buying from Amazon and not from a 3rd party seller.
SSD wise, my fave is still the WD Black SN850x. Try to find some coupons for the Sandisk store, see if you can't get a rebate for this drive over there. I got mine for a great price last winter.
Otherwise, the Kingston will do. :)
This GPU is better than the Nvidia 3060:
Arc B580 (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/jMnXsY/sparkle-titan-oc-arc-b580-12-gb-video-card-sb580t-12goc)
Intel 2nd generation. Much improved from the 1st.
Very good for 1440p gaming.
I read the reviews, and honestly, some people really over-pay for GFX cards. The one I was happiest about, and with a i7 2600K processor was the nVidia 2700. That was back in 2011, but the rig was good for 8 more years.
There is an nVidia 3060 mobile chip in my laptop, and it delivers the goods in 1080p.
The past 5 years I have mainly gone for AMD, as Intel's processor range have been known to run very hot, and nVidia's cards have been either out of stock or my price range.
Get a solid motherboard, and memory sticks that go well with it, that is my main recommendation.
I'd like a B580 but they are unfindable and driver support is still hit or miss.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 16, 2025, 07:42:32 AMI'd like a B580 but they are unfindable and driver support is still hit or miss.
Isn't the driver problem mostly for DirectX 9 games though?
Quote from: viper37 on April 16, 2025, 01:13:11 PMQuote from: Grey Fox on April 16, 2025, 07:42:32 AMI'd like a B580 but they are unfindable and driver support is still hit or miss.
Isn't the driver problem mostly for DirectX 9 games though?
Is it? I did not know that.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 16, 2025, 01:29:38 PMQuote from: viper37 on April 16, 2025, 01:13:11 PMQuote from: Grey Fox on April 16, 2025, 07:42:32 AMI'd like a B580 but they are unfindable and driver support is still hit or miss.
Isn't the driver problem mostly for DirectX 9 games though?
Is it? I did not know that.
For the previous generation, that was the problem. DX11/12 was good, but DX9 was hit and miss, often very buggy. Except for very new games that were done dirty, like Starfield, which was mostly promoted by Nvidia and was also buggy on AMD.
I decided not to get a graphics card yet.
The main reasons I wanted the new computer were around a better processor, and I figure it feels less painful to space it out a little.
Everything has arrived. Tomorrow is D-Day. Always scary. :ph34r:
I've ditched Nvidia and gone with the 9070 XT for my new build, paired with a 9800X3D.
Should be here next week.
Well. Looks like I don't have a desktop anymore.
First, et everything up, turned it on... But zero display. Not even a bios error.
Did some weird qflash thing without even turning it on and hurray, I have bios.
But now it recognises my hard drives exist but doesnt recognise them as boot devices.
Secure boot? TPM2.0?
Quote from: Josquius on April 18, 2025, 07:19:45 AMWell. Looks like I don't have a desktop anymore.
First, et everything up, turned it on... But zero display. Not even a bios error.
Did some weird qflash thing without even turning it on and hurray, I have bios.
But now it recognises my hard drives exist but doesnt recognise them as boot devices.
Sounds like the typical post-build frustration phase.
Had to do a totally new windows install on a random hard drive, turned out not the one I would have chosen.
I wonder if this was typical of computer setup these days, as have to say its quite a swerve back towards difficult compared to 10 years ago- nothing on 20 years ago and setting pins and all that of course.
Man, I'm still using the same MacBook Pro I've had since 2014 as my daily driver. My kids use it too, for Minecraft and YouTube.
I'm starting to get nagging warnings that my shit is too old to support the latest version of X software, but so far there have been workarounds. :ph34r:
Quote from: Josquius on April 19, 2025, 06:49:58 AMHad to do a totally new windows install on a random hard drive, turned out not the one I would have chosen.
I wonder if this was typical of computer setup these days, as have to say its quite a swerve back towards difficult compared to 10 years ago- nothing on 20 years ago and setting pins and all that of course.
That's why I keep around my Apple II GS and play around with that from time to time. Nothing like working with really old stuff to make the new stuff seem simple.