Now that all the good stuff is over, it is time to start thinking about death again.
Once again, the rules are simple: Pick three (3) celebrity types that you think will hit the bucket in 2024. All picks must be in this thread by midnight GMT December 31, 2023.
Good luck, and have a great new year.
Vladimir Putin
Pope Francis
Donald Trump
Vladimir Putin
Donald Trump
Joe Biden
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 26, 2023, 11:04:14 AMVladimir Putin
Donald Trump
Joe Biden
It's not supposed to be a wish list! :P
Jimmy Carter
Willie Mays
Mel Brooks
Charles III
Xi Jinping
Harrison Ford
Jimmy Carter
Jean-Marie Le Pen
Alan Greenspan
William Daniels
Pope Francis
James earl jones
Keith Richards (he has to go sometime)
Clint Eastwood
Jimmy Carter
Hunter Biden (Mysterious circumstances, autopsy never released)
Taylor Swift (Goes into toxic shock after receiving slightly less attention than last year)
Pope Francis (Struck by lightning)
;)
Seriously
Berry Gordy
Bill Wyman
Chuck Grassley
The United States Constitution.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 01, 2024, 03:09:53 PMThe United States Constitution.
Trump won't take office until '25. :P
Besides, it will be kept in a vegetative state so that it can be carted out, comatose, to be fawned over whenever appropriate. :P
Richard Chamberlain
Oleg Iourievitch Tinkov *Russian oligarch who criticized the war.
Dick Van Dyke
Quote from: Josephus on December 28, 2023, 07:45:45 AMKeith Richards (he has to go sometime)
If drugs were bad for your health, Ozzy Osbourne would already be dead.
'Mary Poppins' actress Glynis Johns dies at 100 (https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/04/entertainment/glynis-johns-dead/index.html)
(The mother and Sister Suffragette from Mary Poppins.)
RIP Franz Beckenbauer
Quote from: Maladict on January 08, 2024, 11:32:50 AMRIP Franz Beckenbauer
Great footballer, great coach, corrupt official...
Quote from: Zanza on January 08, 2024, 12:42:49 PMQuote from: Maladict on January 08, 2024, 11:32:50 AMRIP Franz Beckenbauer
Great footballer, great coach, corrupt official...
RIP indeed. Though "corrupt official" in the context of organized football seems redundant. :P
I started to get into soccer at the time of the 1974 World Cup, so Beckenbauer is one of the first soccer greats I remember. Him and Johann Cryuff.
Quote from: Syt on January 09, 2024, 01:26:01 AMQuote from: Zanza on January 08, 2024, 12:42:49 PMQuote from: Maladict on January 08, 2024, 11:32:50 AMRIP Franz Beckenbauer
Great footballer, great coach, corrupt official...
RIP indeed. Though "corrupt official" in the context of organized football seems redundant. :P
I also remember him as one of the first instances of strong Bavarian accent when I started German. :P
Quote from: Josephus on January 09, 2024, 09:26:22 AMI started to get into soccer at the time of the 1974 World Cup, so Beckenbauer is one of the first soccer greats I remember. Him and Johann Cryuff.
He's just before my time so I don't hate him like the 80s German players.
I didn't watch him play (born in '76), but I recall his time leading the German squad after the Euro '84 debacle. His title was officially "Teamchef" instead of "Trainer" because he didn't have a coaching license.
Quote from: Syt on January 09, 2024, 10:48:06 AMI didn't watch him play (born in '76), but I recall his time leading the German squad after the Euro '84 debacle. His title was officially "Teamchef" instead of "Trainer" because he didn't have a coaching license.
Did he cook for the team?
RIP Melanie (singer-songwriter, best known for Roller Skate and Look What they Done to My Songs, Ma.) I think "Candles in the Rain" was the best song about Woodstock by someone who was actually there. (Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock" is a better song, but Joni never left her hotel.)
Quote from: Savonarola on January 25, 2024, 05:50:54 PMRIP Melanie (singer-songwriter, best known for Roller Skate and Look What they Done to My Songs, Ma.) I think "Candles in the Rain" was the best song about Woodstock by someone who was actually there. (Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock" is a better song, but Joni never left her hotel.)
"We were so close there was no room
We bled inside each other's wounds
We all had caught the same disease
And we all sang the songs of peace
So raise the candles high
'Cause if you don't we could stay black against the night
Oh, raise them higher again
And if you do we could stay dry against the rain"
Couple of days ago Frank Farian died, aged 82.
He's mostly known as the producer of 70s group Boney M, 90s dancepop group La Bouche and, infamously, Milli Vanilli.
Quote from: Syt on January 27, 2024, 07:17:51 AMCouple of days ago Frank Farian died, aged 82.
He's mostly known as the producer of 70s group Boney M, 90s dancepop group La Bouche and, infamously, Milli Vanilli.
Speaking of which, I like this cover a lot:
RIP Carl Weathers, you will always be my favorite acting coach. :(
Oh RIP :(
:(
Quote from: Savonarola on February 02, 2024, 03:44:44 PMRIP Carl Weathers, you will always be my favorite acting coach. :(
RIP :(
RIP Wayne Kramer
Quote from: Savonarola on February 02, 2024, 03:44:44 PMRIP Carl Weathers, you will always be my favorite acting coach. :(
Dillon you SON OF A BITCH! :(
Toby Keith, stomach cancer, age 62.
I've never been much of a country music guy, but early 2000s Keith was huge, and I kind of liked his stuff - to the point I even had a CD or two. Looking back he was kind of more in that bro-ish dude country, with songs like Should've Been a Cowboy, How Do You Like Me Now, Red Solo Cup, Beer for my Horses, and I Love This Bar.
RIP, I'll pour out a Red Solo Cup for ya dude.
Ian Lavender, last survivor of Dad's Army.
RIP Alexei Navalny.
More courage than I'll ever have.
Quote from: Maladict on February 16, 2024, 06:40:42 AMRIP Alexei Navalny.
More courage than I'll ever have.
Inevitable, unfortunately :(
Surprised they kept him around so long. :(
Quote from: Syt on February 16, 2024, 06:58:30 AMSurprised they kept him around so long. :(
I think he surprised them - I mean when did he get given Novichok?
It's easy to judge from the outside, but returning to Russia after being poisoned just seemed like an excess of courage to me even at the time. Clearly the government is no longer concerned with the blowback from your death, you yourself just tricked FSB into describing the operation to poison you, what is to be gained from walking into the execution chamber and putting your head into the noose?
His actions seem consistent with someone desiring a martyr's death.
Yeah. It is very brave but I think that is also the moral force, satyagraha piece of non-violent resistance. It is precisely that you put your body and your life on the line fully knowing the risks - but you still take the stance.
For him it was opposition and above all that he was wanting to change Russia. If he left he's just another anarchist chilling in London/blowing up Greenwich, or White Russian in Paris, or oligarch in London. I don't know, but I feel that it's precisely by knowing he'll probably be killed and going ahead that he hopes he could make change.
Quote from: Jacob on February 16, 2024, 10:52:16 AMHis actions seem consistent with someone desiring a martyr's death.
It's definitely a possibility, but I don't think it's the only one. Another possibility was that he just miscalculated how important he was, or rather how important he still was. I think it would be entirely in character for him to assume that the Russian government was now the most interested bodyguard of his; after all, they tried to off him quietly with poison designed to make your death look natural, surely that means that now they don't want you to die by any means lest people start wondering?
I think that he also failed predict how much more brazen the Russian government would get since his imprisonment. Since the start of the war in Ukraine, the Russian government almost completely unmasked itself and doesn't even both with appearances for the most part. It's now publicly a lawless mafia state, with a very strong boss of bosses less accountable to other bosses than he ever was. At this stage, "it'll look bad to have him whacked" thinking doesn't apply.
I doubt very much it was direct murder of Navalny at this time. Right in the lead-up to the Presidential elections is a slightly more sensitive time.
Now I have no problem holding Puting responsible for Navalny's death - but it was more a matter of putting a once-poisoned man into a brutal Russian prison system and not looking after his medical needs.
Although this was him yesterday and he doesn't look likely to suddenly collapse and die:
https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1758526609773252754?s=46&t=o9GOIj6BKKcLcHiyQTlAoA
Quote from: DGuller on February 16, 2024, 11:20:53 AMQuote from: Jacob on February 16, 2024, 10:52:16 AMHis actions seem consistent with someone desiring a martyr's death.
It's definitely a possibility, but I don't think it's the only one. Another possibility was that he just miscalculated how important he was, or rather how important he still was. I think it would be entirely in character for him to assume that the Russian government was now the most interested bodyguard of his; after all, they tried to off him quietly with poison designed to make your death look natural, surely that means that now they don't want you to die by any means lest people start wondering?
I think that he also failed predict how much more brazen the Russian government would get since his imprisonment. Since the start of the war in Ukraine, the Russian government almost completely unmasked itself and doesn't even both with appearances for the most part. It's now publicly a lawless mafia state, with a very strong boss of bosses less accountable to other bosses than he ever was. At this stage, "it'll look bad to have him whacked" thinking doesn't apply.
Yeah it's worth remembering how much Russia has changed during Putin's rule, how it's gotten more and more repressive. I mentioned the upcoming elections, which are still happening. But Putin has been pretty brazen about just disallowing any potential candidate who might give him the slightest opposition.
I think Navalny knew that if he stayed outside of Russia he would no longer have any influence - he would be branded as a foreign agent. By returning he had to know he'd be imprisoned again - but I suspect he didn't factor in just how long and brutal it would be.
Andreas Brehme, a German footballer, who scored the winning goal in the 1990 WC final dead at 63. RIP.
Artur Jorge, Portuguese former footballer and coach of F.C Porto during the 1986-87 European Cup conquest, and the French league PSG for the second time for the Parisians (pre-Qatar). Died at 78, due to cancer.
Not that I don't have the deepest respect for Navalny, but it might just be that he made the calculation that he has X% to survive but if he does he'll become the next leader of Russia, and his ambition and/or desire for change made that a risk worth taking in his book.
It ain't that rare, lots of politicians in history seems to have made that decision to gain the glory necessary to gain power or die trying.
Quote from: Tamas on February 22, 2024, 10:49:20 AMNot that I don't have the deepest respect for Navalny, but it might just be that he made the calculation that he has X% to survive but if he does he'll become the next leader of Russia, and his ambition and/or desire for change made that a risk worth taking in his book.
It ain't that rare, lots of politicians in history seems to have made that decision to gain the glory necessary to gain power or die trying.
I think he was the real deal, 100% stubborn idealism.
Quote from: Maladict on February 22, 2024, 02:59:45 PMQuote from: Tamas on February 22, 2024, 10:49:20 AMNot that I don't have the deepest respect for Navalny, but it might just be that he made the calculation that he has X% to survive but if he does he'll become the next leader of Russia, and his ambition and/or desire for change made that a risk worth taking in his book.
It ain't that rare, lots of politicians in history seems to have made that decision to gain the glory necessary to gain power or die trying.
I think he was the real deal, 100% stubborn idealism.
I agree. I think that he understood that he himself, would never be the president of Russia and might not live to see the next one, but his political message was based around the slogan "never give up." Taking that position tells me that he understood what "no matter what" meant.
So the one thing about Navalny (though I very much admire his bravery) - is he was very much a Russian chauvinist.
He said racist things about central Asian people. He was dismissive of Ukrainian independence - he attacked the Ukraine was for being bad for Russia, not intrinsically bad.
Quote from: Barrister on February 22, 2024, 04:16:30 PMSo the one thing about Navalny (though I very much admire his bravery) - is he was very much a Russian chauvinist.
He said racist things about central Asian people. He was dismissive of Ukrainian independence - he attacked the Ukraine was for being bad for Russia, not intrinsically bad.
Yes. As I understand he started his public appearance so to speak trying to get on with the far right or at least nationalist scene. He sure pivoted and it was probably sincere but - again grwt respect for his bravery - the only thing we have clear evidence of was his burning ambition to lead.
I mean, if Orban dies in communist custody in the late 80s he would be considered as a youjg liberal martyr.
And he would have been.
Richard Lewis RIP
I was watching a recent episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm and my first thought was, man he looks like shit.
Also, maybe intentionally, but the main conversation between his character and Larry David was who was gonna die first
Well he was a long term Addict and alcoholic. Plus Parkinson's doesn't help.
Quote from: Josephus on February 28, 2024, 05:31:01 PMI was watching a recent episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm and my first thought was, man he looks like shit.
Also, maybe intentionally, but the main conversation between his character and Larry David was who was gonna die first
I think he didn't appear in some seasons because of his health. But yeah, he looked quite bad in later seasons.
Mentioned in the Canadian Politics thread, but - Rt Hon. Brian Mulroney.
Complicated figure in politics. He won the biggest majority of all time - and the only Conservative* to win back-to-back majorities since Sir John A MacDonald. His bringing in Free Trade with the US was transformative for Canada.
He also staked his legacy on two other matters - amending the constitution and bringing in the GST. Amending the constitution crashed and burned spectacularly, twice, and directly led to a very near miss on Quebec leaving Canada. The GST, which does still exist, was hugely unpopular. It's no conincidence that after winning two majority governments, the PCs were then left lift all of two seats after Mulroney was done.
Mulroney was also dogged by allegations of corruption. The Airbus scandal (where then-government-owner Air Canada purchased Airbus aircraft, rather than Boeings) was never proven, but always seemed highly suspicious.
He's left by his kids. Caroline Mulroney is an Ontario cabinet member, his son Ben was a TV personality for a number of years.
Personally - I remember as a school kid argueing passionately in favour of free trade. 5 years later, in the first election I could vote in, I exulted in their defeat and the rise of my Reform Party.
But as always in death - I hope he rests in peace, and I feel sorrow for his family.
(*as I hinted at - he was a Progressive Conservative, although that party later merged to form the now-just-Conservative Party. Just as I would never consider myself to be a Tory, Mulroney was never a Conservative).
For fuck sakes, can you be decent enough to keep your partisan politics out of this thread.
Quote from: Barrister on March 01, 2024, 03:00:47 PMMentioned in the Canadian Politics thread, but - Rt Hon. Brian Mulroney.
Complicated figure in politics. He won the biggest majority of all time - and the only Conservative* to win back-to-back majorities since Sir John A MacDonald. His bringing in Free Trade with the US was transformative for Canada.
He also staked his legacy on two other matters - amending the constitution and bringing in the GST. Amending the constitution crashed and burned spectacularly, twice, and directly led to a very near miss on Quebec leaving Canada. The GST, which does still exist, was hugely unpopular. It's no conincidence that after winning two majority governments, the PCs were then left lift all of two seats after Mulroney was done.
Mulroney was also dogged by allegations of corruption. The Airbus scandal (where then-government-owner Air Canada purchased Airbus aircraft, rather than Boeings) was never proven, but always seemed highly suspicious.
He's left by his kids. Caroline Mulroney is an Ontario cabinet member, his son Ben was a TV personality for a number of years.
Personally - I remember as a school kid argueing passionately in favour of free trade. 5 years later, in the first election I could vote in, I exulted in their defeat and the rise of my Reform Party.
But as always in death - I hope he rests in peace, and I feel sorrow for his family.
(*as I hinted at - he was a Progressive Conservative, although that party later merged to form the now-just-Conservative Party. Just as I would never consider myself to be a Tory, Mulroney was never a Conservative).
Good summary BB.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2024, 03:33:44 PMFor fuck sakes, can you be decent enough to keep your partisan politics out of this thread.
What. The. Fuck.
I thought I was incredibly respectful of Mulroney. I myself don't hate the man - he had a complicated and interesting legacy. I went back to look at my post - I don't see what was objectionable. he was a man who had the biggest majority in Canadian history - then 9 years later saw his party reduced to 2 seats in Parliament. His history prior to becoming Prime Minister (which I didn't even go into) is equally fascinating. He was a labour lawyer and business man - not a "career politician". He only became an MP after becoming PC Leader, and then became Prime Minister shortly thereafter. He also led to melding the PC party with soft-Quebec-nationalists which was part of his huge majority. His downfall led to the ride of the BQ (like, directly - a bunch of his MPs quite and formed the BQ) which has dominated Quebec federal politics ever since.
To the extent I mentioned partisan politics, it was referencing things from 30 years ago and more just a matter of historical record. You, of all people, keep wanting me to "acknowledge my biases".
I really do get the feeling you just don't like me, CC.
RIP Brian Mulroney.
"Mulroney was never a Conservative" Fuck off
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2024, 05:02:54 PM"Mulroney was never a Conservative" Fuck off
He was a Progressive Conservative - not a Conservative. (you'll note I capitalized the word, to indicate party affiliation)
I mean - that's kind of a matter of historical record, dude.
You'll note he was never really embraced by the modern Conservative Party. I think Mulroney and Harper for example have met, but never prominently. Mulroney was too toxic a figure even decades later - and remember Harper made his bones in the Reform Party that helped defeat the PCs back in 1993 (quite literally - Harper was elected as an MP in 1993). Poilievre didn't have quite the same baggage but still also came from the same Reform wing of the party. I don't recall that Mulroney, despite being a former Prime Minister, ever addressed a Conservative Party conference or convention. Just as one example.
So maybe, you know, you can just fuck off instead. :)
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2024, 03:33:44 PMFor fuck sakes, can you be decent enough to keep your partisan politics out of this thread.
Decency? In a thread based on speculating when people will die? :hmm:
Quote from: Barrister on March 01, 2024, 03:00:47 PMMulroney was never a Conservativ
He was very much a
Conservative. He was in fact, leader of that party from 1983 until 1993 when he resigned. Economically speaking, he did a lot of good, courageous things for Canada after the debacle that where the Trudeau years.
What he never was however, was a
conservative. And that was also a very good, a very courageous thing to do. But I was way too young to notice that at the time.
He was corrupt though. For reasons that are his alone and I won't speculate.
Quote from: Barrister on March 01, 2024, 05:14:35 PMI don't recall that Mulroney, despite being a former Prime Minister, ever addressed a Conservative Party conference or convention. Just as one example.
He was a militant to the Progressive-Conservative Party since his time in Laval University up to his departure in 1993.
His last years where mired in scandals, and 7 months later, Kim Campbell would suffer an atrocious defeat where the party would be soundly defeated and left with only 2 MPs and no leader in the House of Commons. Shortly there after, one the MPs resigned, leaving Jean Charest alone who was nominated as head of the Progressive-Conservative party.
Then, there came all the revelations about Airbus. And we learn that Mulroney accepted a... cash payment of 300 000$ from them for his lobbying, that he simply forgot to mention to Revenu Canada (now CRA). But he had no choice, he had to support his family...
Considering all this, he was toxic. There was no way he could be a guest speaker at any party convention of a party fighting for relevance.
Now, also of note, when the party merged with the Canadian Alliance to create the modern Conservative Party, it wasn't all joy for everyone. There was some controversy and some opposition from the old Tory guard, some people close to Mulroney too.
Stephen Harper did not like Mulroney and I don't think he liked him. I can't see the relevance of having Mulroney at a party convention.
Might as well invite Jagmeet Singh to talk about modern fiscal policies the next party convention, he'd be less controversial.
Edit:
When to verify Wikipedia. Stephen Harper ordered an inquiry board on Brian Mulroney in 2008 about the cash payments he received while he was still a MP for Charlevoix.
2024 is being cruel on Japanese geeks.
Last month we lost Yoshitaka Murayama, creator of suikoden.
And then just yesterday it was Akira Toriyama of Dragon Ball and Chrono Trigger fame.
:(
2023 had Leiji Matsumoto (Albator for the francophones Captain Harlock for anglos).
RIP Akira Toriyama
PS I probably watched or read more Dr. Slump than Dragon Ball Z. Same goes for video games such as Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger vs DBZ.
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 01, 2024, 10:12:33 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2024, 03:33:44 PMFor fuck sakes, can you be decent enough to keep your partisan politics out of this thread.
Decency? In a thread based on speculating when people will die? :hmm:
Ha, fair point
Konstantin Koltsov. Former Belarussian NHL player, married to a Belarussian tennis player, Aryna Sabalenka, the daugther of Sergey Sabalenka, another hockey player who died in 2019, aged 42.
Death by suicide, apparently. Jumped from a balcony in a Miami hotel. Police found nothing suspicious. He was 43.
I'm always a little bit paranoid when it involves Russians or Belarussians committing suicide by jumping from balconies or windows...
Quote from: viper37 on March 19, 2024, 12:01:24 PMI'm always a little bit paranoid when it involves Russians or Belarussians committing suicide by jumping from balconies or windows...
:hmm: Did he recently make any public comments about Putin's glorious, completely legitimate election victory?
No idea. But there's been other hockey players who died in weird accidents, IIRC.
Chris Simon, former NHL player. Strong man, but talented hockey player too, not just a goon.
Died by suicide at 52. Former Quebec city Nordiques and Avalanche player. :(
He will be missed.
QuoteFormer NHL player Chris Simon dies by suicide at 52 and CTE is suspected in his death, family says
Link (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/former-nhl-player-chris-simon-dies-suicide-rcna14426)
Quote from: viper37 on March 20, 2024, 11:30:15 AMChris Simon, former NHL player. Strong man, but talented hockey player too, not just a goon.
Died by suicide at 52. Former Quebec city Nordiques and Avalanche player. :(
He will be missed.
QuoteFormer NHL player Chris Simon dies by suicide at 52 and CTE is suspected in his death, family says
Link (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/former-nhl-player-chris-simon-dies-suicide-rcna14426)
Yeah - as soon as you seen "not just a goon" and "death by suicide at 52" your mind goes immediately to CTE.
RIP.
Quote from: Barrister on March 20, 2024, 11:33:52 AMQuote from: viper37 on March 20, 2024, 11:30:15 AMChris Simon, former NHL player. Strong man, but talented hockey player too, not just a goon.
Died by suicide at 52. Former Quebec city Nordiques and Avalanche player. :(
He will be missed.
QuoteFormer NHL player Chris Simon dies by suicide at 52 and CTE is suspected in his death, family says
Link (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/former-nhl-player-chris-simon-dies-suicide-rcna14426)
Yeah - as soon as you seen "not just a goon" and "death by suicide at 52" your mind goes immediately to CTE.
RIP.
He began his career as a goon, IIRC. And during one summer, he took advanced skating lessons. Which seems ridiculous for a hockey player already in the NHL. But he came back and was a much faster player, able to assist and score goals. Something a player like John Kordic (https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2789) was unable to do.
If you want a sad story, look for his story (https://www.spaywall.com/news/https://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/17/sports/hockey-he-skated-on-the-ice-then-fell-through-it.html). It required 9 police officers to subdue him on the night of his death. Poor guy.
Now, back to Chris Simon. Not a star player, but he could make the plays, have assists and goals.
https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4962
RIP Louis Gossett Jr. :(
:(
Fritz Wepper. German actor
RIP
Famous for Die Brücke, le Dernier Combat and Derrick.
Auf wiedersehen Harry. :(
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 29, 2024, 06:58:12 PMFritz Wepper. German actor
RIP
Famous for Die Brücke, le Dernier Combat and Derrick.
Auf wiedersehen Harry. :(
Oh :( I remember him in Derrick from when I was a kid.
RIP Joe Lieberman. No more Palpatine memes.
(https://i.imgur.com/oLLBk7D.png)
Unless he "somehow" returns. :P
Shalom baby.
Pretty big news today is we've lost Higgs. Of Boson fame.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68774853.amp
Honestly didn't realise he was Geordie!
OJ Simpson just died of a cancer at 76 years old.
He did it
He got away with it.
Wonder how long before cancer comes out with a book
He never managed to identify the real killer. :(
Quote from: Maladict on April 11, 2024, 11:14:33 AMHe got away with it.
Yep. All because the LAPD assigned the case to a racist perjuring cop who took the fifth when asked by the judge if he planted evidence.
Quote from: HVC on April 11, 2024, 11:20:59 AMWonder how long before cancer comes out with a book
"I didn't do it, but if I had done it, here's how!"
Quote from: grumbler on April 11, 2024, 11:35:18 AMQuote from: Maladict on April 11, 2024, 11:14:33 AMHe got away with it.
Yep. All because the LAPD assigned the case to a racist perjuring cop who took the fifth when asked by the judge if he planted evidence.
But what were their options? Hire an outside consultant?
Quote from: DGuller on April 11, 2024, 01:05:07 PMQuote from: grumbler on April 11, 2024, 11:35:18 AMQuote from: Maladict on April 11, 2024, 11:14:33 AMHe got away with it.
Yep. All because the LAPD assigned the case to a racist perjuring cop who took the fifth when asked by the judge if he planted evidence.
But what were their options? Hire an outside consultant?
Hire cops who weren't racist perjurers? Assign a detective who didn't make racist comments in the locker room? There are ways to avoid losing cases that should be open-end-shut wins.
Wow. OJ Simpson.
Kids or younger people just have no conception of how huge that trial was in the 90s (or the infamous police chase). I remember people cheering when OJ was found Not Guilty - he was a beloved sports star / actor. In the years since though it was widely recognized he was guilty as sin of the murders.
Grumbles brings up Mark Fuhrman. I mean as a lawyer good on defence counsel who were able to misdirect and make Fuhrman the issue on trial, rather than Simpson. But whether or not Fuhrman used the n-word has nothing to do with the guilt of Simpson (and the N-word, while bad, was nowhere near as toxic then as it is now).
My mom would watch CNN everyday because of the trial. It bred a lifelong aversion in me to Larry Kings voice. I also think it was the start of my Misophonia. There's some voices I just can't stand.
Quote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 01:54:58 PMWow. OJ Simpson.
Kids or younger people just have no conception of how huge that trial was in the 90s (or the infamous police chase). I remember people cheering when OJ was found Not Guilty - he was a beloved sports star / actor. In the years since though it was widely recognized he was guilty as sin of the murders.
Grumbles brings up Mark Fuhrman. I mean as a lawyer good on defence counsel who were able to misdirect and make Fuhrman the issue on trial, rather than Simpson. But whether or not Fuhrman used the n-word has nothing to do with the guilt of Simpson (and the N-word, while bad, was nowhere near as toxic then as it is now).
The chase was incredibly iconic.
It played on TV in Duke Nukem 3D:
(https://i.imgur.com/3NDGt4m.png)
And on Wrestlemania XII in 1996, Roddy Piper and Goldust had a "Hollywood Backstreet Brawl" during which Goldust escapes with a golden car and Piper chases him with a white Bronco, leading to, well, this kind of footage:
(https://i.imgur.com/YcL6LDR.png)
OJ Simpson sort-of reminds me of Michael Jackson. MJ went through a big child sex abuse trial in (googles - 2005). He was acquitted. People seemed quite happy about that. In the years since then the reputation of MJ has completely shifted though and people recognize he was a serial child sex abuser.
Actually - hell the same applies to Johnny Depp, and even fucking Donald Trump. If people like someone it's hard for them to look past that and look at the actual evidence.
As far as I know Depp only has the one accuser, unlike the others.
The one that really surprised me was Cosby.
Quote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 01:54:58 PMGrumbles brings up Mark Fuhrman. I mean as a lawyer good on defence counsel who were able to misdirect and make Fuhrman the issue on trial, rather than Simpson. But whether or not Fuhrman used the n-word has nothing to do with the guilt of Simpson (and the N-word, while bad, was nowhere near as toxic then as it is now).
I'd be interested in your take as a prosecutor though - as Grumbler says he took the fifth on whether he planted evidence or not. Is that the sort of thing that's fatal to a case?
Instinctively I think if I was a juror I feel like that'd make it very difficult for me to move past reasonable doubt. But I'm not sure.
Quote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 02:58:30 PMOJ Simpson sort-of reminds me of Michael Jackson. MJ went through a big child sex abuse trial in (googles - 2005). He was acquitted. People seemed quite happy about that. In the years since then the reputation of MJ has completely shifted though and people recognize he was a serial child sex abuser.
Maybe - with Jackson. I mean there's a biopic coming out next year starring his nephew but also with, say, Colman Domingo and Miles Teller in it.
I don't know what that will or won't cover.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 11, 2024, 03:04:43 PMQuote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 01:54:58 PMGrumbles brings up Mark Fuhrman. I mean as a lawyer good on defence counsel who were able to misdirect and make Fuhrman the issue on trial, rather than Simpson. But whether or not Fuhrman used the n-word has nothing to do with the guilt of Simpson (and the N-word, while bad, was nowhere near as toxic then as it is now).
I'd be interested in your take as a prosecutor though - as Grumbler says he took the fifth on whether he planted evidence or not. Is that the sort of thing that's fatal to a case?
Instinctively I think if I was a juror I feel like that'd make it very difficult for me to move past reasonable doubt. But I'm not sure.
So a few different things.
-It's been 30 years, and while I followed the case closely at the time, I didn't follow it as a lawyer.
-I'm a prosecutor, not a juror, and hard to move past that
-"taking the fifth" isn't a thing in Canadian law. We have the opposite point of view - if you're under subpoena you MUST answer the question, but anything you say can't be used against you
But this was what defence lawyers will always like to do - make the trial about anything other than their client's guilt. Ideally Judge Ito should have shot down this entire line of questioning - Fuhrman wasn't on trial, and only his actions relating to the trial itself would be relevant. It can be relevant if a police officer has been convicted of an offence, but for anything else it would be a "collateral fact". Let's say defence asks a witness if they use drugs. The witness says "no". The defence is prohibited from then calling evidence to show the witness uses drugs - it's not an issue at trial - it's a "collateral fact" - unless it can be shown to be relevant to the issues at trial. If the witnessed used drugs on the day of the event that might be relevant, but not on other dates.
And of course I should say - this is my knowledge and experience of Canadian criminal law. I'm not licensed to practice in California, and I've already noted at least one example of how those criminal laws differ between the jurisdictions.
"Did you plant evidence" seems pertinent.
Wild OJ Simpson fact for the Brits - Simpson participated in sprints before he was a footballer and took part in a race at Stanford in 1967 which was won by a British athlete who ran under 10.2s. That athlete was future Lib Dem leader Ming Campbell :lol: :blink:
I remember a teacher running into our fourth grade classroom to announce the verdict.
Quote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 01:54:58 PMGrumbles brings up Mark Fuhrman. I mean as a lawyer good on defence counsel who were able to misdirect and make Fuhrman the issue on trial, rather than Simpson. But whether or not Fuhrman used the n-word has nothing to do with the guilt of Simpson (and the N-word, while bad, was nowhere near as toxic then as it is now).
It wasn't that he used the N-word, it was that he was the prosecution's star witness, the lead detective in the case, but was extremely sloppy with the chain of custody for evidence and was shown on the stand to be a perjurer who took the fifth when directly asked if he planted evidence.
I was and am 100% convinced that OJ did it, but if I was on that jury and asked to render a verdict of "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" based solely on the evidence presented, I don't think that I could do it.
Quote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 02:58:30 PMOJ Simpson sort-of reminds me of Michael Jackson. MJ went through a big child sex abuse trial in (googles - 2005). He was acquitted. People seemed quite happy about that. In the years since then the reputation of MJ has completely shifted though and people recognize he was a serial child sex abuser.
It does seem since the 2000s there's been a big breakthrough in tackling child abuse. Jimmy Saville was the big one in the UK, and though he wasn't known elsewhere I do wonder whether this somehow served to shake the collective mindset.
As yeah, say Michael Jackson and one of the top 5 things to come to most people under 50's mind will be kiddy fiddler.
QuoteActually - hell the same applies to Johnny Depp, and even fucking Donald Trump. If people like someone it's hard for them to look past that and look at the actual evidence.
Johnny Depp? :unsure:
Quote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 01:54:58 PMWow. OJ Simpson.
Kids or younger people just have no conception of how huge that trial was in the 90s (or the infamous police chase). I remember people cheering when OJ was found Not Guilty - he was a beloved sports star / actor. In the years since though it was widely recognized he was guilty as sin of the murders.
Funny, my memory is a bit different. I remember being in a restaurant at the time. I was interviewing someone (not related to this) over a coffee and the news was on the TV screens. When the verdict came in, everyone started shouting in disbelief, certainly not cheering.
Quote from: Josephus on April 12, 2024, 06:03:25 AMFunny, my memory is a bit different. I remember being in a restaurant at the time. I was interviewing someone (not related to this) over a coffee and the news was on the TV screens. When the verdict came in, everyone started shouting in disbelief, certainly not cheering.
Some were cheering, some were jeering. I don't think that anyone doubted his guilt. Those who were cheering were doing so because a black man had actually been acquitted of a crime. The cops who beat up Rodney King were acquitted despite being guilty just a couple of years earlier, so some saw the acquittal of Simpson to be some sort of cosmic payback.
Quote from: grumbler on April 12, 2024, 12:56:31 PMSome were cheering, some were jeering. I don't think that anyone doubted his guilt. Those who were cheering were doing so because a black man had actually been acquitted of a crime. The cops who beat up Rodney King were acquitted despite being guilty just a couple of years earlier, so some saw the acquittal of Simpson to be some sort of cosmic payback.
"The privileges of wealth applies to Black people too! This is better than rich Black folks being subjected to systemic injustice the same way poor Black folks are! Yeay!"
Something like that?
To the best of my recollection, the media portrayal of reaction to the verdict was:
* black people were overjoyed
* everyone else was furious
I don't remember being anything other than shocked, personally. But I recall the portrayal of reaction to the verdict being drawn on racial lines only. Obviously, reality couldn't have 100% lined up with that.
I was working in a small magazine office in DC when the verdict was announced. The black ladies in subscriptions all cheered and the white people were all quiet. I remember thinking "really, you too?"
I was on lunch recess in the courtyard in junior high school when the news of the verdict got around. You could probably figure out what the verdict was even without hearing it.
Quote from: Josquius on April 12, 2024, 05:03:41 AMQuote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 02:58:30 PMOJ Simpson sort-of reminds me of Michael Jackson. MJ went through a big child sex abuse trial in (googles - 2005). He was acquitted. People seemed quite happy about that. In the years since then the reputation of MJ has completely shifted though and people recognize he was a serial child sex abuser.
It does seem since the 2000s there's been a big breakthrough in tackling child abuse. Jimmy Saville was the big one in the UK, and though he wasn't known elsewhere I do wonder whether this somehow served to shake the collective mindset.
As yeah, say Michael Jackson and one of the top 5 things to come to most people under 50's mind will be kiddy fiddler.
QuoteActually - hell the same applies to Johnny Depp, and even fucking Donald Trump. If people like someone it's hard for them to look past that and look at the actual evidence.
Johnny Depp? :unsure:
He sued his ex-wife Amber Heard for defamation for saying he was a domestic violence abuser, and won. Most of the online commentary was supportive of Depp, although it seemed like Heard's allegations were pretty believable.
Heard won her case in the UK High Court. The online commentary (especially from the US) was pretty horrendous - but in the press here UK contempt of court rules and reporting restrictions kicked in.
I agree that Heard's allegatios seem very believable.
The thing I will always remember about the OJ trial was one of the closing submissions made by the fence was that it was simply unbelievable that O.J. Simpson would wear track pants with dress socks. I heard this submission after a long day of work, into my track pants, but leaving my work dress socks on.
Mrs. CC looked at me and just started laughing.
Quote from: Barrister on April 12, 2024, 05:12:56 PMMost of the online commentary was supportive of Depp, although it seemed like Heard's allegations were pretty believable.
She did not help herself with her behavior.
I saw some clips of the Depp/Heard trial but I have no opinion on who was right. I did however get the distinct impression that Johnny Depp is a tool.
I saw Amber Heard in The Stepfather remake, and I am convinced that she was right about Depp.
I think I'm the only person in the world that didn't follow any of that Heard/Depp thing. When the late night comedians were going on about defecation, I had no idea what they were on about.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 12, 2024, 05:59:17 PMI saw some clips of the Depp/Heard trial but I have no opinion on who was right. I did however get the distinct impression that Johnny Depp is a tool.
Sometimes, there are dysfunctional relationships were no one is right.
One can be a tool, an unfaithful spouse, an addict but not necessarily violent toward the other. Which was the core issue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depp_v._Heard) at the trial. Imho, both ended up looking like fools at their trial.
Quote from: viper37 on April 17, 2024, 11:52:54 AMQuote from: Admiral Yi on April 12, 2024, 05:59:17 PMI saw some clips of the Depp/Heard trial but I have no opinion on who was right. I did however get the distinct impression that Johnny Depp is a tool.
Sometimes, there are dysfunctional relationships were no one is right.
One can be a tool, an unfaithful spouse, an addict but not necessarily violent toward the other. Which was the core issue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depp_v._Heard) at the trial. Imho, both ended up looking like fools at their trial.
Or, someone can look like a fool and still be the victim of domestic violence.
Edit:
I should be clear I didn't follow the trial. It was just from social media it seemed like most people were on "Team Johnny" almost certainly because of his much greater fame. But I have no particular insight on his guilt or innocence.
Quote from: Barrister on April 17, 2024, 02:47:21 PMOr, someone can look like a fool and still be the victim of domestic violence.
It's possible.
Looking at the trial evidence as reported by the medias, it seems both had a tendency toward abuse to the other. In the end, it was judged defamation that Depp physically mistreated Miss Heard in this trial. In another, he lost.
Different rules, different evidence too, I suppose? I don't really know.
Depp strike me as human wreck, but none of his exes testified he ever was abusive toward them. Usually, such people tend to not limit themselves to one victim. But maybe it did happen as she said.
Actually, Heard did not claim in the editorial Depp sued over that Depp had assaulted her. He just said that she had been domestically assaulted and described its impact on her. Depp, amazingly, won the defamation suit on the basis that everyone knew that Heard was writing about him, even though she did not name him.
Quote from: viper37 on April 17, 2024, 10:33:28 PMIt's possible.
Looking at the trial evidence as reported by the medias, it seems both had a tendency toward abuse to the other. In the end, it was judged defamation that Depp physically mistreated Miss Heard in this trial. In another, he lost.
Different rules, different evidence too, I suppose? I don't really know.
Depp strike me as human wreck, but none of his exes testified he ever was abusive toward them. Usually, such people tend to not limit themselves to one victim. But maybe it did happen as she said.
It wasn't Depp v Heard here, but against News Group who I think relied on truth as a defence. Heard gave a witness statement. Also libel cases are now largely heard by a civil judge (like all other civil cases) not juries on a balance of probabilities.
All of which probably had some impact. I think the gap between a successful truth defence here and, I believe, "actual malice" in the US trial is striking though.
Daniel Dennett died.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 19, 2024, 07:49:36 PMDaniel Dennett died.
Lived a full life and made a difference in the world. People should check out his TED talks.
RIP Terry Carter, age 95.
(https://i.imgur.com/H0LyPGi.png)
:(
RIP Theoden King. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-68962192
Oh RIP :(
(https://usrimg-850.fark.net/8/8j/fark_8jVutdweW0QppRmZqzE-w--EKjc.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=JO3ELGV4BGLFW7Y3EZXN&Expires=1715572800&Signature=JvVon1Amzdc4vaFQgSF7EOrXwDE%3D)
He goes now to his fathers, and even in their mighty company he shall not now be ashamed.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 11, 2024, 03:07:31 PMQuote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 02:58:30 PMOJ Simpson sort-of reminds me of Michael Jackson. MJ went through a big child sex abuse trial in (googles - 2005). He was acquitted. People seemed quite happy about that. In the years since then the reputation of MJ has completely shifted though and people recognize he was a serial child sex abuser.
Maybe - with Jackson. I mean there's a biopic coming out next year starring his nephew but also with, say, Colman Domingo and Miles Teller in it.
I don't know what that will or won't cover.
Ive gotten the opposite impression, that Jacksons reputation has been largely rehabilitated with the general public. :hmm:
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2024, 03:33:23 PMQuote from: Sheilbh on April 11, 2024, 03:07:31 PMQuote from: Barrister on April 11, 2024, 02:58:30 PMOJ Simpson sort-of reminds me of Michael Jackson. MJ went through a big child sex abuse trial in (googles - 2005). He was acquitted. People seemed quite happy about that. In the years since then the reputation of MJ has completely shifted though and people recognize he was a serial child sex abuser.
Maybe - with Jackson. I mean there's a biopic coming out next year starring his nephew but also with, say, Colman Domingo and Miles Teller in it.
I don't know what that will or won't cover.
Ive gotten the opposite impression, that Jacksons reputation has been largely rehabilitated with the general public. :hmm:
I don't think so.
I mean I think where we went through a phase where people weren't sure if it was okay to play his music, and now that's gone away, but I don't think anyone's views on MJ himself have improved.
RIP Steve Albini
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 18, 2024, 04:24:24 AMQuote from: viper37 on April 17, 2024, 10:33:28 PMIt's possible.
Looking at the trial evidence as reported by the medias, it seems both had a tendency toward abuse to the other. In the end, it was judged defamation that Depp physically mistreated Miss Heard in this trial. In another, he lost.
Different rules, different evidence too, I suppose? I don't really know.
Depp strike me as human wreck, but none of his exes testified he ever was abusive toward them. Usually, such people tend to not limit themselves to one victim. But maybe it did happen as she said.
It wasn't Depp v Heard here, but against News Group who I think relied on truth as a defence. Heard gave a witness statement. Also libel cases are now largely heard by a civil judge (like all other civil cases) not juries on a balance of probabilities.
All of which probably had some impact. I think the gap between a successful truth defence here and, I believe, "actual malice" in the US trial is striking though.
A few corrections. All civil trials are decided on the same evidentiary basis whether heard by jury or judge alone. In the US and Canada Newspapers (and news outlets) don't have to establish the truth of what they are reporting. But malice will defeat their defence.
So it's not so much as there being a gap so much as the defences are different.
Someone only Canadians will likely know. Rex Murphy has died at age 77.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2024, 10:04:19 PMSomeone only Canadians will likely know. Rex Murphy has died at age 77.
I always enjoyed when he hosted Cross Country Checkup on CBC radio. He was always super sympathetic and gracious with all the random Canadians calling in.
I didn't always agree with Rex Murphy, but I can see his appeal. He made a very solid contribution to public life in Canada.
May he rest in peace.
:shutup:
Jacob and GF may be too young to
Remember him before he went hard right. He gave brilliant commentary on the National and as PRC mentioned he was a gracious host of Cross Country Checkup. I don't know what happened to him after he left the CBC but he seemed to become a completely different person. Hopefully someone will write a biography- it would be a fascinating read.
He was a great and entertaining commentator in his day; but he is one of those people who should have been sent to pasture years ago.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 10, 2024, 09:51:31 AMJacob and GF may be too young to
Remember him before he went hard right. He gave brilliant commentary on the National and as PRC mentioned he was a gracious host of Cross Country Checkup. I don't know what happened to him after he left the CBC but he seemed to become a completely different person. Hopefully someone will write a biography- it would be a fascinating read.
There's that and you need to add about more 16 years for me to have learned enough english.
Quote from: Josephus on May 10, 2024, 10:38:11 AMHe was a great and entertaining commentator in his day; but he is one of those people who should have been sent to pasture years ago.
I would still read his work.
I will admit that occasionally his writing would have me cringe, but most of the time I found him very insightful even in later years.
He indeed had a long and fascinating career. Born in Newfoundland (before it even joined Confederation) he was a Rhodes scholar, despite being a conservative he worked for the CBC for decades. His vocabulary was impressive, but always in a way not that he was showing off, but that he just trusted his audience was smart enough to keep up. As mentioned he was always very polite in dealing with callers on a cross-canada call-in show.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/rex-murphy-the-sharp-witted-intellectual-who-loved-canada-dies-at-77/
By the way here's Rex's last column, filed a day before his death. He certainly was not going gently into the night as he just blasts Trudeau for ignoring October 7th.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeau-faced-an-essential-moral-test-after-oct-7-he-failed-it
I can't say I disagree with him here.
https://twitter.com/stephenharper/status/1788719438159806549
Respects paid by Stephen Harper.
So, I'm not sure if Rex knew that last column would be his last or not, but you have to think words of praise from the current PM are not forthcoming. And fair enough - sometimes the most classy thing to say is nothing at all.
Quote from: Barrister on May 10, 2024, 11:06:18 AMBy the way here's Rex's last column, filed a day before his death. He certainly was not going gently into the night as he just blasts Trudeau for ignoring October 7th.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeau-faced-an-essential-moral-test-after-oct-7-he-failed-it
What a dreadful, overblown commentary. The idea that the West somehow "failed" because the victims were Jews completely ignores the world we live in. Incidents far worse than October 7 have occurred across the world since 1990: Rwanda, Darfur, and even, right now, in Sudan. The West is simply selective in how strongly it reacts to such tales (the response to Srebrenica was stronger because closer to home). Murphy also ignores the fact that Trudeau did on Oct 8 exactly what Murphy called on him to do: condemn Hamas and its attack as "horrifying and shocking" and mentioning its "brutality."
Also, any time I read a columnist whose evidence is "I hear that..." I dismiss him as a ideologue.
I haven't really read anything by Murphy since he left the CBC. I guess he went downhill?
Quote from: grumbler on May 11, 2024, 08:42:14 AMQuote from: Barrister on May 10, 2024, 11:06:18 AMBy the way here's Rex's last column, filed a day before his death. He certainly was not going gently into the night as he just blasts Trudeau for ignoring October 7th.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeau-faced-an-essential-moral-test-after-oct-7-he-failed-it
What a dreadful, overblown commentary. The idea that the West somehow "failed" because the victims were Jews completely ignores the world we live in. Incidents far worse than October 7 have occurred across the world since 1990: Rwanda, Darfur, and even, right now, in Sudan. The West is simply selective in how strongly it reacts to such tales (the response to Srebrenica was stronger because closer to home). Murphy also ignores the fact that Trudeau did on Oct 8 exactly what Murphy called on him to do: condemn Hamas and its attack as "horrifying and shocking" and mentioning its "brutality."
Also, any time I read a columnist whose evidence is "I hear that..." I dismiss him as a ideologue.
Yeah, he really went downhill but became a darling of the Right in this country.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2024, 08:47:43 AMA few corrections. All civil trials are decided on the same evidentiary basis whether heard by jury or judge alone.
Yeah my point was more judge and a jury might come to a different conclusion, perhaps especially in this type of case. Also in part because of how ongoing trials are reported which is different.
QuoteIn the US and Canada Newspapers (and news outlets) don't have to establish the truth of what they are reporting. But malice will defeat their defence.
You don't need to establish truth. There are several defences in English law like honest opinion, public interest, various types of privilege.
Truth is one of those defences. And it's a complete defence. But it is the most difficult to prove because you have to show that what was said was "substantially true". I think media companies would always argue it but winning on the defence of truth is tough.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 11, 2024, 02:52:59 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2024, 08:47:43 AMA few corrections. All civil trials are decided on the same evidentiary basis whether heard by jury or judge alone.
Yeah my point was more judge and a jury might come to a different conclusion, perhaps especially in this type of case. Also in part because of how ongoing trials are reported which is different.
QuoteIn the US and Canada Newspapers (and news outlets) don't have to establish the truth of what they are reporting. But malice will defeat their defence.
You don't need to establish truth. There are several defences in English law like honest opinion, public interest, various types of privilege.
Truth is one of those defences. And it's a complete defence. But it is the most difficult to prove because you have to show that what was said was "substantially true". I think media companies would always argue it but winning on the defence of truth is tough.
Right, which is why I am not sure you made a comment about there being a gap between truth and malice.
Roger Corman, legendary B-movie producer and director. Helped launch many New Hollywood directors.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/culture/article/2024/05/12/roger-corman-hollywood-mentor-and-king-of-the-bs-dies-at-98_6671178_30.html (https://www.lemonde.fr/en/culture/article/2024/05/12/roger-corman-hollywood-mentor-and-king-of-the-bs-dies-at-98_6671178_30.html)
RIP :(
Loved his B-movies and the Intruder, possibly Shatner's best role.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 12, 2024, 01:12:25 PMRoger Corman, legendary B-movie producer and director. Helped launch many New Hollywood directors.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/culture/article/2024/05/12/roger-corman-hollywood-mentor-and-king-of-the-bs-dies-at-98_6671178_30.html (https://www.lemonde.fr/en/culture/article/2024/05/12/roger-corman-hollywood-mentor-and-king-of-the-bs-dies-at-98_6671178_30.html)
I've read numerous books by and about Hollywood, and he appeared in almost every one of them, almost always in a positive light. Living to 98 with such good innings is a good life.
:(
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 12, 2024, 01:17:29 AMRight, which is why I am not sure you made a comment about there being a gap between truth and malice.
I thought it was striking - and still do - that in one court you have a finding of no libel because of the defence of truth and in another a finding of libel with actual malice. The gap between those two results seems pretty huge.
QuoteRoger Corman, legendary B-movie producer and director. Helped launch many New Hollywood directors.
RIP indeed :(
Went through a big phase of watching a fair few of his films (I don't think anyone, not even Corman, could have watched them all). Honestly I associated him with 50s and 60s Vincent Price films - I had no idea he was still alive.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 12, 2024, 04:08:45 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on May 12, 2024, 01:17:29 AMRight, which is why I am not sure you made a comment about there being a gap between truth and malice.
I thought it was striking - and still do - that in one court you have a finding of no libel because of the defence of truth and in another a finding of libel with actual malice. The gap between those two results seems pretty huge.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 12, 2024, 04:08:45 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on May 12, 2024, 01:17:29 AMRight, which is why I am not sure you made a comment about there being a gap between truth and malice.
I thought it was striking - and still do - that in one court you have a finding of no libel because of the defence of truth and in another a finding of libel with actual malice. The gap between those two results seems pretty huge.
But you are just repeating the statement that made me question why you think there is a gap. Let me ask it this way, why are you surprised that different defences render different results? And especially in defamation cases where truth is an absolute defence.
RIP David Sanborn (https://www.npr.org/2024/05/13/1251006759/saxophonist-david-sanborn-6-time-grammy-winner-has-died-at-age-78)
Oh RIP Alice Munro :(
An absolute giant.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 14, 2024, 11:33:12 AMOh RIP Alice Munro :(
An absolute giant.
One of the greats.
A name I hadn't thought of for many years, but instantly recognizeable:
RIP Dabney Coleman, age 92.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/dabney-coleman-dead-9-to-5-mary-hartman-tootsie-1235902521/
:( He was the best jerk of them all.
:(
RIP Doge. :(
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 24, 2024, 07:45:16 PMRIP Doge. :(
:( good memes aren't supposed to die
RIP Bill Walton. Not likely that your record 44 points in the 1973 NCAA National Championship (on 21 of 22 shooting!) will ever be matched.
Robert Pickton died. Someone jammed a broom handle through his head.
Apparently he'd been telling fellow inmates that he was writing a book. I've seen speculation that the murder was organized to stop him from implicating anyone else - like his brother and the various criminals who went to party at his farm. If so, we can hope that he managed to write enough down to make a difference.
I've always been baffled by the jury's refusal in that case to convict on first-degree murder charges. How can they rule that the kidnappings and subsequent murders were not planned, when it happened in all of the six cases that they heard?
R.I.P. Brother Marquis of 2 Live Crew :cry:
Friend of mine was big fan of theirs when we were teens. RIP
Quote from: Syt on June 04, 2024, 11:41:20 AMFriend of mine was big fan of theirs when we were teens. RIP
I was a huge fan, so much so that I illegally bought a copy of 'Banned in the USA' when I was underage. :showoff:
Jerry West dead at 86. For those who don't follow the NBA, he was an outstanding player (voted all-NBA every year of his career as a player) and an excellent coach (got to the [layoffs every year he coached) but his most outstanding achievements were as a GM (eight NBA championships with 3 teams).
The NBA logo is of him.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/AY2VAZYLR5GCDH44OBHVKGEYUU.jpg&w=916)
The NBA is losing a lot of its institutional memory this year: Russel, Walton, and now West.
Conflicting reports on the passing of Noam Chomsky.
I read that he was seriously unwell a little while ago, so it wouldn't be surprising.
Donald Sutherland. :(
:cry:
More negative waves! :(
:cry:
:(
Dammit
:(
Oh very sad news - one of the greats :(
RIP Benji Gregory, aged 46.
https://people.com/alf-child-star-benji-gregory-dies-at-46-8676311
QuoteALF Child Star Benji Gregory Dies at 46
The late actor rose to fame playing Brian Tanner in 101 episodes of 'ALF' from 1986 to 1990
Benji Gregory, best known for his role on ALF, has died. He was 46.
On June 13, the late actor was found dead in his car in the parking lot of a Chase Bank located in Peoria, Arizona, according to TMZ. The outlet reported those closest to Gregory believe that he was visiting the bank to deposit checks the day before when he fell asleep in his car.
They believe that he died from vehicular heatstroke. The temperature rose as high as 109 degrees on June 12 where he was in Arizona. The outlet also noted that his service dog, Hans, was also found deceased in the vehicle.
The Maricopa County Medical Examiner's Office told ABC7 Los Angeles that his cause of death is still pending.
Rebecca Hertzberg-Pfaffinger, his older sister, told TMZ that Gregory was faced depression, bipolar disorder and a sleep disorder that kept him awake for days.
PEOPLE has reached out to Hertzberg-Pfaffinger for comment.
The late actor rose to fame playing Brian Tanner in 101 episodes of ALF from 1986 to 1990. It followed the title character — whose acronym stands for "Alien Life Form" but is actually named Gordon Shumway — after he crashed into the garage of the Tanner family's suburban home. Puppeteer Paul Fusco, who co-created the series with Tom Patchett, was behind the iconic performance.
In 2018, Warner Bros. shared that it was in the early stages of creating a reboot. However, the plans were canceled later that same year after failing to find a home for the project. In February, Shout! Factory announced that it had acquired the rights to ALF and would be developing new related content.
(https://i.imgur.com/GmEDp0H.png)
RIP Shelley Duvall
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2024, 10:45:49 AMRIP Shelley Duvall
:cry: Loved her in every one of her roles. Even as Olive Oyl.
Richard Simmons. Wonder who number 3 will be?
I guess he wasn't fit enough
Shannen Doherty passed away. 53 years old.
News piece about her passing (https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/shannen-doherty-beverly-hills-90210-charmed-actress-dies/story?id=70031189)
Whoa.
Also, Dr Ruth Westheimer, aged 96.
RIP Bob Newhart. Larry and his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl will mourn.
Quote from: Valmy on July 18, 2024, 09:24:17 PMRIP Bob Newhart. Larry and his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl will mourn.
nah, he's just dreaming.
RIP John Mayall (British blues musician, best known for his work in Blues Breakers. Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton, in my opinion, is the greatest British Blues album.)
Lou Dobbs died earlier last week.
May he Rest in Piss.
Lou Dobbs was always tardy for everything. He died way too late.
RIP to Roberto "Loli" Linguanotto, the inventor of the Tiramisu :(
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 29, 2024, 02:42:27 PMRIP to Roberto "Loli" Linguanotto, the inventor of the Tiramisu :(
RIP, but funny last name given what he invented. :D
Richard Lugner, real estate magnate and socialite has died aged 91. He was known for a failed run as presidential candidate in Austria, inviting international celebrities to the Vienna Opera Ball (see here: https://www.lugner.at/lugner-city/opernball/ ), like Ivana Trump, Darah Ferguson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, ...) and his 6 marriages, esp. his 4th to Christina "Mausi" Lugner which lasted form 1991 to 2007 (she's 33 years younger). Afterwards he was maried to the 57 years younger Cathy "Spatzi" Schmidt from 2017-2016. In June this year he married the 49 years younger Simone Reiländer.
English wiki article for the interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lugner
RIP Alain Delon. https://www.theguardian.com/film/article/2024/aug/18/french-screen-star-alain-delon-dies-aged-88
Quote from: Solmyr on August 18, 2024, 02:56:08 AMRIP Alain Delon. https://www.theguardian.com/film/article/2024/aug/18/french-screen-star-alain-delon-dies-aged-88
Gone to meet Jean-Paul Belmondo. :(
RIP
No mourning for Jonathan Bloomer and Mike Lynch?
Darth Vader :(
Oh RIP :(
For me: Mufasa. Lion King was the first film I saw in the cinema.
Quote from: Josephus on September 09, 2024, 04:05:59 PMDarth Vader :(
I knew this day was coming, but it didn't help. Rest in peace, "This is MICHIGAN!"
Quote from: Josephus on September 09, 2024, 04:05:59 PMDarth Vader :(
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 09, 2024, 04:13:25 PMOh RIP :(
For me: Mufasa. Lion King was the first film I saw in the cinema.
Thulsa Doom has joined the void.
So when a beloved actor dies, one of the few highlights is when what (at east to me) obscure bits of their history resurface.
So I present to you, from David Letterman, his Top Ten List of things that sound cool when James Earl Jones says them.
Number two just slays.
RIP James Earl Jones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flFYwiAUpq8
"-It must have been when I was younger." Yeah since it was in the past maybe you're right, Thulsa Doofus.
RIP :(
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2024, 11:23:53 PMSo when a beloved actor dies, one of the few highlights is when what (at east to me) obscure bits of their history resurface.
I liked that one:
Maggie Smith 😞
:(
Wow. Working right until the end, yeah? RIP
RIP :cry:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2024, 09:26:19 AMWow. Working right until the end, yeah? RIP
Seems to be the norm for the actors of her generation. Judi Dench is doing less because of problems with her eyes, Ian McKellen, at 85, fell off the stage in a show a few weeks ago but is back and said he's going to keep performing as long as he can.
RIP :(
He's with Sinead now
As an aside, I really hate the phrase, "I was today years old when".
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2024, 09:04:07 AMAs an aside, I really hate the phrase, "I was today years old when".
Fixed.
The reason for the dislike is it epitomizes the narcissism of the social media culture that now dominates our world. The important thing is the fact he wrote the song, not when you learned the fact.
I am not saying you personally are narcissistic, but it is noteworthy that even someone like you uses the phrase, likely because you have seen it used a number of times on social media.
(https://media.tenor.com/hZDMkVPYTOoAAAAM/old-man-dana-carvey.gif)
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 02, 2024, 04:15:57 AMThe important thing is the fact he wrote the song, not when you learned the fact.
Yes, but that fact (that he wrote the song) was established in the previous thread (the reference to Janis Joplin). I was pointing out that I didn't know that until then.
Quote from: Tamas on October 02, 2024, 04:36:52 AM(https://media.tenor.com/hZDMkVPYTOoAAAAM/old-man-dana-carvey.gif)
Yeah, that's fair. Back in my day, people were not inundated with social media, read actual newspapers, and were better informed.
As a result, back in my day, Truno could not exist as a viable candidate.
But there are signs that the damage is not permanent. Smart phones are being removed from classrooms and slowly, but surely the general population is becoming better informed about the dangers of social media. One day it might even be regulated appropriately.
Quote from: Josephus on October 02, 2024, 06:14:15 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on October 02, 2024, 04:15:57 AMThe important thing is the fact he wrote the song, not when you learned the fact.
Yes, but that fact (that he wrote the song) was established in the previous thread (the reference to Janis Joplin). I was pointing out that I didn't know that until then.
Yeah, that's a fair thing to say. But before social media mangled our language, what we used to say was something like, "interesting, I didn't know that."
The emphasis was put on the interesting point, not on the fact that we didn't know it.
RIP Terri Garr. Age 79 (maybe).
Apparently suffered from MS for many years.
RIP Terri. Stone cold hottie.
Oh no, that's unexpected. She was a regular on Letterman in his early years. She once appeared wearing only a towel :D
Goodbye John "The Bruiser" Prescott.
The left could really do with more in his mould.
RIP Jim Abrahams. The Zucker/Abrahams/Zucker films (esp. Airplane! and Top Secret) were highly formative for me growing up. :(
Quote from: Syt on November 27, 2024, 04:42:25 AMRIP Jim Abrahams. The Zucker/Abrahams/Zucker films (esp. Airplane! and Top Secret) were highly formative for me growing up. :(
I love those movies.
You probably have, but just in case you haven't check out Police Squad! on Youtube, the very short-lived TV show (6 episodes) produced by ZAZ. It formed the basis for the Naked Gun movies, but to my mind are even funnier.
I have the DVDs. :)
Quote from: Syt on November 27, 2024, 11:22:34 AMI have the DVDs. :)
:thumbsup: I kind-of expected as much.
I want to show my kids Airplane! but some of the humour is pretty topical to the 70s that even I only barely get. I mean - jokes about Hare Krishnas (which I only understand from old Mag Magazine jokes), or disco jokes, or even "smoking or not smoking" - non wof that has any meaning to kids born in the 2010s.
Quote from: Barrister on November 27, 2024, 11:30:06 AMI want to show my kids Airplane! but some of the humour is pretty topical to the 70s that even I only barely get. I mean - jokes about Hare Krishnas (which I only understand from old Mag Magazine jokes), or disco jokes, or even "smoking or not smoking" - non wof that has any meaning to kids born in the 2010s.
I was thinking of showing Airplane to my 10 yo nephew when he comes to visit. Plenty of jokes that still work I'm sure, although perhaps not in translation.
Yeah, but the visual gags ("Mind if we take some pictures?") and much of the verbal humor ("Hospital? What is it?") would still work. Kentucky Fried Movie would be a much harder sell. But the first Naked Gun movie might be the easiest one to onboard someone onto Z/A/Z movies.
Quote from: Maladict on November 27, 2024, 12:58:38 PMQuote from: Barrister on November 27, 2024, 11:30:06 AMI want to show my kids Airplane! but some of the humour is pretty topical to the 70s that even I only barely get. I mean - jokes about Hare Krishnas (which I only understand from old Mag Magazine jokes), or disco jokes, or even "smoking or not smoking" - non wof that has any meaning to kids born in the 2010s.
I was thinking of showing Airplane to my 10 yo nephew when he comes to visit. Plenty of jokes that still work I'm sure, although perhaps not in translation.
His parents might be annoyed that he saw the bare breast scene. And maybe the blowjob scene...
I just learned Colin Renfrew died.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 27, 2024, 09:17:56 PMQuote from: Maladict on November 27, 2024, 12:58:38 PMQuote from: Barrister on November 27, 2024, 11:30:06 AMI want to show my kids Airplane! but some of the humour is pretty topical to the 70s that even I only barely get. I mean - jokes about Hare Krishnas (which I only understand from old Mag Magazine jokes), or disco jokes, or even "smoking or not smoking" - non wof that has any meaning to kids born in the 2010s.
I was thinking of showing Airplane to my 10 yo nephew when he comes to visit. Plenty of jokes that still work I'm sure, although perhaps not in translation.
His parents might be annoyed that he saw the bare breast scene. And maybe the blowjob scene...
Nudity isn't a big deal here. I don't remember a bj scene.
I was thinking it would be less adult oriented than something like The Naked Gun, but I might be wrong.
Quote from: Maladict on November 28, 2024, 05:12:17 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on November 27, 2024, 09:17:56 PMQuote from: Maladict on November 27, 2024, 12:58:38 PMQuote from: Barrister on November 27, 2024, 11:30:06 AMI want to show my kids Airplane! but some of the humour is pretty topical to the 70s that even I only barely get. I mean - jokes about Hare Krishnas (which I only understand from old Mag Magazine jokes), or disco jokes, or even "smoking or not smoking" - non wof that has any meaning to kids born in the 2010s.
I was thinking of showing Airplane to my 10 yo nephew when he comes to visit. Plenty of jokes that still work I'm sure, although perhaps not in translation.
His parents might be annoyed that he saw the bare breast scene. And maybe the blowjob scene...
Nudity isn't a big deal here. I don't remember a bj scene.
I was thinking it would be less adult oriented than something like The Naked Gun, but I might be wrong.
Elaine has to re-inflate the automatic pilot by blowing into a small tube just below his belt buckle...
As with all of Airplane! it's not exactly subtle.
The bare breasts are for approximately 2 seconds.
But when I was young and watching it the movie theatre, what a glorious 2 seconds it was. :D
RIP Peter Sinfield, Lyricist for King Crimson, Celine Delon, Buck's Fizz and lots of 70/80's pop songs.
And co-creator with Greg Lake of 'I Believe in Father Christmas' :bowler:
Loved his Crimson lyrics when I was a teenager.
Confusion will be my epitaph
As I crawl, a cracked and broken path
If we make it, we can all sit back and laugh
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Quote from: Josephus on December 07, 2024, 11:42:50 AMLoved his Crimson lyrics when I was a teenager.
Confusion will be my epitaph
As I crawl, a cracked and broken path
If we make it, we can all sit back and laugh
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Jos, there's a 10 minute radio item about him here, from the point 20min onwards:
Last Word Podcast - Radio 4 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0025lbq)
Quote from: mongers on December 07, 2024, 12:27:41 PMQuote from: Josephus on December 07, 2024, 11:42:50 AMLoved his Crimson lyrics when I was a teenager.
Confusion will be my epitaph
As I crawl, a cracked and broken path
If we make it, we can all sit back and laugh
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Jos, there's a 10 minute radio item about him here, from the point 20min onwards:
Last Word Podcast - Radio 4 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0025lbq)
Thank you. :hug:
Ricky Henderson, career stolen bases leader dead at 65.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 21, 2024, 10:28:23 PMRicky Henderson, career stolen bases leader dead at 65.
I wonder what he passed from. 65 is old but not that old. No cause of death was announced.
Anyways - an all-time great at the game.
Wait - sounds like pneumonia.
Is there some viral pneumonia going around? My youngest kid missed a couple weeks of school with pneumonia. One of my nephews (one of the Downs twins) just got out of hospital from pneumonia.
Quote from: Barrister on December 23, 2024, 12:55:21 PMIs there some viral pneumonia going around? My youngest kid missed a couple weeks of school with pneumonia. One of my nephews (one of the Downs twins) just got out of hospital from pneumonia.
Yes, it has hit Vancouver quite hard. I hope your boy fully recovers. One of the things to think about his getting him assessed. Even though he is symptom free now, there can be lasting damage that can be mitigated with breathing exercises.
(https://i.imgur.com/HhmpxA6.jpeg)
So passes histories greatest monster. :(
RIP :(
Made it to 100. Longest lived president?
Quote from: HVC on December 29, 2024, 04:56:33 PMMade it to 100. Longest lived president?
Just wait till you have a 120 years old Trump ruling the nation from his golden toilet.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
Looks like a few of us scored points with Jimmy.
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 10:10:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
It's a Simpsons reference. When Springfield builds a statue of Jimmy Carter with the plaque reading 'Malaise Forever', the crowd erupts into a riot, with a character shouting 'He's history's greatest monster!'.
Saw quite a few comments online saying he was one of the few really decent humans to become POTUS. Though I guess you could argue that it makes you uniquely unfit for that office. :P
Some Des Moines Register dude on NPR said Jimmy's caucus victory here in 76 was what made the Iowa caucus a big deal, which I didn't know. Figured it had always been a thing.
Shelf: triggered.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2024, 11:28:54 AMSome Des Moines Register dude on NPR said Jimmy's caucus victory here in 76 was what made the Iowa caucus a big deal, which I didn't know. Figured it had always been a thing.
Shelf: triggered.
??? :huh:
RIP. Interesting figure as well.
ORF has one of those in memoriam sections for the deceased of the year. Had missed that Mojo Nixon had died in February, age 66. :(
And former Italian footballer Salvatore Schillaci (59) :o
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 30, 2024, 11:37:36 AM??? :huh:
You've said several times caucus goers fucked it up by choosing Jimmy.
Have I? I don't think that's me :lol:
I don't remember ever really having a view on the 76 primaries. Although even if I don't remember having an opinion it's not impossible I expressed it pretty strongly :ph34r:
Quote from: Syt on December 30, 2024, 11:38:52 AMORF has one of those in memoriam sections for the deceased of the year. Had missed that Mojo Nixon had died in February, age 66. :(
And former Italian footballer Salvatore Schillaci (59) :o
:(
Good grief that's young.
When someone prominent dies it's always interesting to learn things you knew nothing about - even for a really well known figure like Jimmy Carter.
Jimmy Carter as a young man helped combat one of the world's first nuclear reactor meltdowns in Canada at Chalk River in Ontario.
QuoteThe partial meltdown at the facility brought explosions and it was flooded with hundreds of thousands of gallons of water, prompting the Canadian government to turn to its neighbour to the south for assistance.
Carter, a U.S. Navy lieutenant who was working on a nuclear submarine project in Schenectady, N.Y., at the time, was called upon to head north.
"We had the dubious distinction of having one of the first nuclear accidents. And the Americans, obviously, were very interested and ... worried," Milnes said.
Carter led a team of men on the mission, which required the reactor to be shut down, taken apart and replaced. An exact replica of the reactor was built at a playground nearby, with Carter and his troops practising taking it apart and putting it back together as quickly as possible.
When it came time to work on the actual reactor, the men worked in shifts of 90 seconds — the high radioactivity made anything longer extremely dangerous.
"By today's standards, there's no way that would have happened," Milnes said.
"In [Carter's] case, at least, he was lowered into the building ... with his wrench, and he had to run over to the reactor casing and he had one screw to turn. That was all the time he had. And then, boom, back up."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/chalk-river-nuclear-accident-1.6293574
RIP Mr. Carter. Not a successful President but by all accounts a thoroughly successful human being.
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 10:10:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwXj52kzG0
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2024, 10:22:05 AMQuote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 10:10:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
It's a Simpsons reference. When Springfield builds a statue of Jimmy Carter with the plaque reading 'Malaise Forever', the crowd erupts into a riot, with a character shouting 'He's history's greatest monster!'.
Aaaaaah....Havent watched The Simpsons since Season 5. Miss anything?
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 06:24:38 PMQuote from: Neil on December 30, 2024, 10:22:05 AMQuote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 10:10:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
It's a Simpsons reference. When Springfield builds a statue of Jimmy Carter with the plaque reading 'Malaise Forever', the crowd erupts into a riot, with a character shouting 'He's history's greatest monster!'.
Aaaaaah....Havent watched The Simpsons since Season 5. Miss anything?
Its Hit Or miss
:P I probably haven't watched anew episode since like season 7 or 8. actually, maybe some Halloween episodes.
Also, Olivia Hussey passed away on friday
Quote from: Barrister on December 30, 2024, 01:21:39 PMRIP Mr. Carter. Not a successful President but by all accounts a thoroughly successful human being.
Not sucessful in what way? I mean I get he will always be tarnished by Iran; and inflation, which wasn't really his fault. But he did get Israel and Egypt together, probably one of the most successful peace treaties ever.
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 06:24:38 PMQuote from: Neil on December 30, 2024, 10:22:05 AMQuote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 10:10:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
It's a Simpsons reference. When Springfield builds a statue of Jimmy Carter with the plaque reading 'Malaise Forever', the crowd erupts into a riot, with a character shouting 'He's history's greatest monster!'.
Aaaaaah....Havent watched The Simpsons since Season 5. Miss anything?
It's season 4!
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 06:24:38 PMQuote from: Neil on December 30, 2024, 10:22:05 AMQuote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 10:10:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
It's a Simpsons reference. When Springfield builds a statue of Jimmy Carter with the plaque reading 'Malaise Forever', the crowd erupts into a riot, with a character shouting 'He's history's greatest monster!'.
Aaaaaah....Havent watched The Simpsons since Season 5. Miss anything?
I think it ground to a halt in terms of comic value around season 10 or 12.
That said, this is a season 4 episode, so you've been caught not knowing something that you should know. I don't know how things work around here right now, but back in the day we'd all tee off on you mercilessly, pointing and laughing at your lack of omniscience. We'd call it a 'Languish-a-roo'.
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 06:34:49 PMQuote from: Barrister on December 30, 2024, 01:21:39 PMRIP Mr. Carter. Not a successful President but by all accounts a thoroughly successful human being.
Not sucessful in what way? I mean I get he will always be tarnished by Iran; and inflation, which wasn't really his fault. But he did get Israel and Egypt together, probably one of the most successful peace treaties ever.
He failed to get re-elected, thus allowing his fledgling anti-inflation and military reorganization reforms to be seen through by Reagan.
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 06:34:49 PMNot sucessful in what way? I mean I get he will always be tarnished by Iran; and inflation, which wasn't really his fault. But he did get Israel and Egypt together, probably one of the most successful peace treaties ever.
Kissinger did all the work for that. Carter got the photo op.
I give him credit for appointing Volker at the Fed and starting the military buildup which continued under Reagan.
Fuck. Literally a half second after Neil.
With all the stuff about carter lately - best president in 60 years who merely drew a bad lot?
Quote from: Razgovory on November 28, 2024, 12:46:52 AMI just learned Colin Renfrew died.
Aw shucks.
Spent more than a few hours working my way through 'archaeology: theories,methods and practice' at uni.
Quote from: Neil on December 30, 2024, 09:16:23 PMQuote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 06:24:38 PMQuote from: Neil on December 30, 2024, 10:22:05 AMQuote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 10:10:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2024, 04:27:05 PMSo passes histories greatest monster. :(
I know you're trolling but explain
It's a Simpsons reference. When Springfield builds a statue of Jimmy Carter with the plaque reading 'Malaise Forever', the crowd erupts into a riot, with a character shouting 'He's history's greatest monster!'.
Aaaaaah....Havent watched The Simpsons since Season 5. Miss anything?
I think it ground to a halt in terms of comic value around season 10 or 12.
That said, this is a season 4 episode, so you've been caught not knowing something that you should know. I don't know how things work around here right now, but back in the day we'd all tee off on you mercilessly, pointing and laughing at your lack of omniscience. We'd call it a 'Languish-a-roo'.
:(
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 31, 2024, 11:30:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on November 28, 2024, 12:46:52 AMI just learned Colin Renfrew died.
Aw shucks.
Spent more than a few hours working my way through 'archaeology: theories,methods and practice' at uni.
Same. I think I still have it somewhere.
Quote from: Maladict on December 31, 2024, 12:21:37 PMQuote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 31, 2024, 11:30:44 AMQuote from: Razgovory on November 28, 2024, 12:46:52 AMI just learned Colin Renfrew died.
Aw shucks.
Spent more than a few hours working my way through 'archaeology: theories,methods and practice' at uni.
Same. I think I still have it somewhere.
Yeps same here.
Also fondly remember the 'Renfrew and Barnes'* from A-level, stuck me as the first really modern text book I used, rather than making do with post-war cast-offs.
* was that the other author? :unsure:
Edit:
It was Paul Bahn.
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2024, 06:34:49 PMQuote from: Barrister on December 30, 2024, 01:21:39 PMRIP Mr. Carter. Not a successful President but by all accounts a thoroughly successful human being.
Not sucessful in what way? I mean I get he will always be tarnished by Iran; and inflation, which wasn't really his fault. But he did get Israel and Egypt together, probably one of the most successful peace treaties ever.
Iran
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
energy crisis
inflation
1980 recession
pretty much no legislative successes of note
Israel-Egypt - first of all you have to give a lot of credit to the parties who actually made peace - in particular Sadat. And it's been the coldest peace you're probably going to find since then.
Carter should get credit for the Panama Canal treaty - but even there he kicked the can down the road 20 years.
Even just judging by electoral success - he faced a significant primary challenge from Ted Kennedy, and lost quite solidly to Reagan.
Obviously the USA didn't collapse into a giant pit never to be seen again during his presidency, and you can definitely find worse Presidents. But I think "not successful" is a fair assessment.
Plus I did come to praise Carter, not bury him. By every single account he was a thoroughly decent man.
Quote from: Barrister on December 31, 2024, 01:31:24 PMIran
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
energy crisis
inflation
1980 recession
pretty much no legislative successes of note
Israel-Egypt - first of all you have to give a lot of credit to the parties who actually made peace - in particular Sadat. And it's been the coldest peace you're probably going to find since then.
Carter should get credit for the Panama Canal treaty - but even there he kicked the can down the road 20 years.
I basically agree.
The one other success I'd add which I think Americans underestimate is his centring of human rights. I think building on the Helsinki Accords and the shift from detente to a more confrontational position (as someone who prefers Zbig to Kissinger :P), I think was really important for Eastern European dissidents. The Helsinki Watch groups, Charter 77 and Vaclav Havel as well as other groups throughout the Eastern Bloc, I think Carter is actually really important in giving those groups a framework and almost manifesto with which to attack the Soviets after the more pragmatic early 70s.
The thing that's striking, as with his economic and defence policies, is the extent to which what becomes Reaganism is already starting under Carter. There's a similar process with Callaghan and Thatcher in the UK. I think Thatcher and Reagan perhaps go further and make a stronger rhetorical argument, but on substance I think there is less difference than we imagine for all that it's seen as a stark break.
QuoteEven just judging by electoral success - he faced a significant primary challenge from Ted Kennedy, and lost quite solidly to Reagan.
I think the electoral success is the most interesting and the perception of his politics.
From my understanding in the context of the Democratic Party of the 70s he was seen as a candidate on the right. He ran populist campaigns in Georgia which, from my understanding, appealed to segregationists. I think the common story is that the policies were different than the campaign in Georgia which I understand is right, but that campaigning style didn't entirely go away, even in 1976 there were pieces about him appealing to the George Wallace vote. It was the New South but still with shadings of the Old South.
Add to that his record in the White House with the Volcker shock, the starts of deregulation and military reforms and I think it's interesting how much his post-Presidency has shaped perceptions of him. I think now looking back people see him as a figure on the left of the Democrats which wasn't true at the time and I'm not sure was ever - and I think the Carter to Clinton story and model is really interesting and striking. Again perhaps especially because you have a man deeply motivated by religious belief and profoundly moral and Bill Clinton.
QuoteObviously the USA didn't collapse into a giant pit never to be seen again during his presidency, and you can definitely find worse Presidents. But I think "not successful" is a fair assessment.
Yeah I agree. I think "not successful" is about right. Not even the worst post-war, but not good and certainly not successful on his own terms.
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 31, 2024, 02:16:50 PMThe one other success I'd add which I think Americans underestimate is his centring of human rights. I think building on the Helsinki Accords and the shift from detente to a more confrontational position (as someone who prefers Zbig to Kissinger :P), I think was really important for Eastern European dissidents. The Helsinki Watch groups, Charter 77 and Vaclav Havel as well as other groups throughout the Eastern Bloc, I think Carter is actually really important in giving those groups a framework and almost manifesto with which to attack the Soviets after the more pragmatic early 70s.
The thing that's striking, as with his economic and defence policies, is the extent to which what becomes Reaganism is already starting under Carter. There's a similar process with Callaghan and Thatcher in the UK. I think Thatcher and Reagan perhaps go further and make a stronger rhetorical argument, but on substance I think there is less difference than we imagine for all that it's seen as a stark break.
As I understand it (because while I'm old, Carter's Presidency is not something I have any meaningful memory of), Carter came in wanting to continue with detente and rapprochement with the USSR, but ongoing Soviet intransigence (maybe from a feeling by the Soviets that Carter was a lightweight) meant he pivoted halfway through to a harder line and more defence spending, which of course was continued by Reagan.
So much like, say, the 2006 surge, you should give a President credit for knowing that what he was doing wasn't working and changing directions, but still gets the blame for the earlier bad decisions.
QuoteEven just judging by electoral success - he faced a significant primary challenge from Ted Kennedy, and lost quite solidly to Reagan.
I think the electoral success is the most interesting and the perception of his politics.
From my understanding in the context of the Democratic Party of the 70s he was seen as a candidate on the right. He ran populist campaigns in Georgia which, from my understanding, appealed to segregationists. I think the common story is that the policies were different than the campaign in Georgia which I understand is right, but that campaigning style didn't entirely go away, even in 1976 there were pieces about him appealing to the George Wallace vote. It was the New South but still with shadings of the Old South.
Add to that his record in the White House with the Volcker shock, the starts of deregulation and military reforms and I think it's interesting how much his post-Presidency has shaped perceptions of him. I think now looking back people see him as a figure on the left of the Democrats which wasn't true at the time and I'm not sure was ever - and I think the Carter to Clinton story and model is really interesting and striking. Again perhaps especially because you have a man deeply motivated by religious belief and profoundly moral and Bill Clinton.
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Interesting. I hadn't heard that - of Carter running more as "of the Democratic right" in 1976. I knew his was a seemingly unlikely Presidential bid at first, but was in an era where the Primaries were spread out, election campaigns cost less, and you could build on earlier successes to take an unlikely bid all the way to success.