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An outgrowth of the talk about the Mutiny on the Bounty movies.

This is not about picking the best movie (or movies, since some of those stories have been adapted multiple times), but rather in which case the mutineers were most justified in their actions. For the sake of focus, let's keep it to mutinies on ships/subs (and no startships either  :P ).

On the surface, I'd say Crimson Tide, since the mutineers prevented WWIII - but their mutiny was based mostly on conjecture rather than unlawful actions from the ship's commmander.

So I'll go with Amistad because fuck slavery.

Amistad is sort of a ringer.  Slaves on a slave ship rise up.  Not much tension there.

I vote for The Caine Mutiny.  Captain goes bonkers, the officers have an obligation.  Was there a doctor part in that movie?  In the O'Brian books the doctor has the authority to certify a captain as pyscho.

I agree with Yi. Amistad is the clear winner.

Cain mutiny was justified too.

Interestingly, the Caine movie cuts a lot of the plot from the book that goes to show that it wasn't that clear cut.

Essentially after the mutiny the book follows some of the characters as they take command of their own ships and face the difficulties and stress of command, which puts the Caine captain in a better light. IIRC the conclusion was that they could have made it through the storm without deposing the captain, just by helping him by performing their duty.

This reminds me I have to watch Friedkin's version, which was released this fall and got decent reviews.

Amistad by far, but I accidentally clicked Potemin because I didn't scan the list of options fast enough. :(

Great question, but should have excluded Amistad because duh.  I skipped past Amistad and selected Crimson Tide because it was the most interesting.  In fact, though, it was the captain who was the mutineer.

Quote from: grumbler on October 14, 2023, 07:26:45 AMGreat question, but should have excluded Amistad because duh.  I skipped past Amistad and selected Crimson Tide because it was the most interesting.  In fact, though, it was the captain who was the mutineer.

Is it because Denzel's character doesn't agree to launching the missiles and the Captain tries to launch them anyway? I mean, I'm aware that both officers have to concur, but I wasn't sure whether the XO is allowed to "not concur" given that a validated launch order exists. I.e. whether the interrupted message is enough.

Other:  The Crimson Permanent Assurance :pirate

Other: Flash Gordon

All crew and actors mutinied against the producer Dino de Laurentiis, by making a cheesy/kitsch SF movie with some production values, on purpose, with some actors exceeding themselves.

Quote from: celedhring on October 14, 2023, 08:20:43 AMIs it because Denzel's character doesn't agree to launching the missiles and the Captain tries to launch them anyway? I mean, I'm aware that both officers have to concur, but I wasn't sure whether the XO is allowed to "not concur" given that a validated launch order exists. I.e. whether the interrupted message is enough.

The XO has to concur.  It isn't a matter of whether he is allowed to not concur, it is a matter of two-man control.  The XO may not concur based on whatever reasoning he believes is valid, and the captain is not allowed (for obvious reasons)  to replace a non-concurring XO.  The XO isn't some random guy; he has been carefully screened before getting that assignment, precisely because of the desire to make sure that there are two fully cognizant people agreeing that nuclear weapons release is authorized.

QuoteHunt for the Red October

:hmm:

Whatisname's mutiny with the original Apollo in the Battlestar Galactica remake.  It was obvious to the characters and the viewers that there was no plan and the leadership and writers were resistant to the notion of forming one.

Quote from: Savonarola on October 14, 2023, 08:41:23 AMOther:  The Crimson Permanent Assurance :pirate

 :cool:

I like the cut of your jib.   :bowler:

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2023, 08:56:04 AMOther: Flash Gordon

All crew and actors mutinied against the producer Dino de Laurentiis, by making a cheesy/kitsch SF movie with some production values, on purpose, with some actors exceeding themselves.

 :D

Give us free

Though I haven't seen all. At least I don't remember them.
Isn't crimson tide about a rogue Russian captain wanting to start ww3?
Saving the world would beat not becoming a slave yourself.

Quote from: Tonitrus on October 14, 2023, 12:49:45 PM

QuoteHunt for the Red October

:hmm:

Definitely a mutiny even if the captain is involved. He kills the political commissar to carry it out.

Slaves rising up doesn't sound like a mutiny to me. Mutiny to me is more if crew/soldiers/similar act against their own commanders (in some societies there may be a grey area).

Which version of Treasure Island?

Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2023, 11:59:27 AMSlaves rising up doesn't sound like a mutiny to me. Mutiny to me is more if crew/soldiers/similar act against their own commanders.

Which version of Treasure Island?

Whichever you want.

I wonder if there's one where Long John Silver is the good guy!

Quote from: Tonitrus on October 14, 2023, 12:49:45 PM

QuoteHunt for the Red October

:hmm:

Reverse mutiny.

Quote from: celedhring on October 15, 2023, 12:03:52 PM

Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2023, 11:59:27 AMSlaves rising up doesn't sound like a mutiny to me. Mutiny to me is more if crew/soldiers/similar act against their own commanders.

Which version of Treasure Island?

Whichever you want.

I wonder if there's one where Long John Silver is the good guy!

My favorite movie version is Muppets Treasure Island, and the only one I know for sure that I've watched. He's pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvUbbYX9BMs

:lol: I was just thinking of that. He's not necessarily a good guy, but he is played by Tim Curry.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 14, 2023, 03:46:06 AMAmistad is sort of a ringer.  Slaves on a slave ship rise up.  Not much tension there.

I vote for The Caine Mutiny.  Captain goes bonkers, the officers have an obligation.  Was there a doctor part in that movie?  In the O'Brian books the doctor has the authority to certify a captain as pyscho.

The problem with the Caine Mutiny was that the officers knew long before the final act that he had lost it, but were too cowardly to bring it up to higher command, even when presented with the opportunity to do so. So instead of having the captain quietly removed they procrastinated until it was almost too late and they had to mutiny. Nobody looks good in this scenario.

Yeah, while I think the actions of the slaves on the Amistad was the most morally justified, it doesn't count as a mutiny.  It wasn't a revolt by the crew, but rather (I hate saying this) the enslaved cargo.

Quote from: Barrister on October 16, 2023, 11:48:41 AMYeah, while I think the actions of the slaves on the Amistad was the most morally justified, it doesn't count as a mutiny.  It wasn't a revolt by the crew, but rather (I hate saying this) the enslaved cargo.

But then you didn't have to say it like that. ;)

Space Mutiny.

Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2023, 01:47:03 PM

Quote from: Barrister on October 16, 2023, 11:48:41 AMYeah, while I think the actions of the slaves on the Amistad was the most morally justified, it doesn't count as a mutiny.  It wasn't a revolt by the crew, but rather (I hate saying this) the enslaved cargo.

But then you didn't have to say it like that. ;)

Feel free to suggest an alternate wording that gets at the distinction I was making. :hug:

Pretty much all of the mutinees listed are to some degree morally ambiguous - precisely because the crew does owe some duty of loyalty to the ship and captain, so it's a matter of to what extent is that duty outweighed by other factors.  The slaves on the Amistad had no such loyalty, which makes their revolt unambiguously moral and good.  But it makes it a less interesting debate.

Involuntary passengers?

Incindentally, I watched Friedkin's re-adaptation of Caine's Mutiny and it's outstanding. It takes place entirely within the courtroom - no flashbacks to the ship - and it holds you throughout thanks to great acting and Friedkin's masterful use of the camera.

It's also blatantly obvious that Friedkin sees himself in Queeg, which makes it very fitting as his final film.

Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2023, 11:31:16 AMInvoluntary passengers?

Abductees?