Languish.org

Take 2. Lets watch this fail again.

Its a parliamentary rather than a presidential election but who cares. Picking between context-free photos of old white guys is  fun.

Where are the women?

Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2023, 03:32:53 AMWhere are the women?

In the kitchen?

Some questionable facial hair experiments for political leaders, there :hmm:

Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2023, 04:24:50 AM

Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2023, 03:32:53 AMWhere are the women?

In the kitchen?

Exactly the reply I was thinking of making  :D

But yes. Even for a conservative country its a pretty shockingly male group- it seems a lot of this though is down to coalitions with women behind the lesser parties.

Quote from: Josquius on October 11, 2023, 05:14:23 AMBut yes. Even for a conservative country its a pretty shockingly male group- it seems a lot of this though is down to coalitions with women behind the lesser parties.

Although at the minute that's true of most UK parties too - Labour, Tories, Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid plus Scottish and Welsh Labour and Tories. You'd need to go to the Greens who always have male and female co-leaders - or to Northern Ireland where Sinn Fein and Alliance have women leaders.

Voted for Tusk. Not sure what his rep is in Poland but I appreciate his efforts on Britain's behalf during the brexit process (though the fucking Tories were too stupid to use his help of course).

Voted for the cup of tea.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 11, 2023, 06:58:47 AMVoted for Tusk. Not sure what his rep is in Poland but I appreciate his efforts on Britain's behalf during the brexit process (though the fucking Tories were too stupid to use his help of course).

Just read when fetching the photos for this.

QuoteA referendum is scheduled to happen in Poland on 15 October 2023, alongside nationwide elections to the Senate and Sejm.[1][2]

Four questions have been announced by members of the government from 11 to 14 August. Voters will be asked whether they approve of privatisation of state-owned enterprises, increase in the retirement age, admission of immigrants under the EU relocation mechanism and removal of the barrier on Poland's border with Belarus.[3][4][5]

Questions
The referendum will ask four questions:[5][6][2]

"Do you support the selling off of state assets to foreign entities, leading to the loss of Poles' control over strategic sectors of the economy?"[a]
"Do you support an increase in the retirement age, including the restoration of the increased retirement age to 67 for men and women?"
"Do you support the removal of the barrier on the border between the Republic of Poland and the Republic of Belarus?"[c]
"Do you support the admission of thousands of illegal immigrants from the Middle East and Africa, in accordance with the forced relocation mechanism imposed by the European bureaucracy?"
Proposed questions have been criticised by opposition parties and commentators as purportedly aimed at the opposition leader and former Prime Minister Donald Tusk.[7] The ruling Law and Justice party has been accused of inciting anti-immigrant sentiment to boost turnout among its voters on election day.[8] The law has been changed shortly before the announcement of the referendum to allow it to be held on the same day as the parliamentary election.[9] Two of the four questions (the first and last) were also phrased as leading or loaded.

:bleeding:

Abstain.

Mr Chrome and Glass.  next to last

The only candidate that looks somewhat fun is the tech dudebro, but I expect he'll have some insane politics so I went for the safe option of Donald Tusk.

Some PR person thought it was a good idea not to tell the first guy to shave whatever that is before his photo was taken.  Seems there is some market share to be taken by an enterprising competent firm.

null vote. The least offensive candidate is tea cup guy.  But it looks like he wants to strangle somebody.

Guy number 3 has a naughty secret.

Results not finished coming in but vibes are good.  :cheers:

Good - also looks like turnout is on course to increase again which is also great to see. Also always very much liked Tusk so glad to see him back.

Can't find it but I saw a map from the exit poll a little while ago and it looked like Poland A and Poland B is still very much a thing.

Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2023, 03:00:22 PMGood - also looks like turnout is on course to increase again which is also great to see. Also always very much liked Tusk so glad to see him back.

Can't find it but I saw a map from the exit poll a little while ago and it looked like Poland A and Poland B is still very much a thing.

(https://bi.im-g.pl/im/65/e6/1c/z30305893IH.jpg)

Note that it only counts KO not all opposition parties. Still, KO only won one voivodeship (Pomerania) in 2019.

Any breakdown on the polls choices? I voted for #1.

Quote from: Sahib on October 15, 2023, 04:17:55 PM

Quote from: Sheilbh on October 15, 2023, 03:00:22 PMGood - also looks like turnout is on course to increase again which is also great to see. Also always very much liked Tusk so glad to see him back.

Can't find it but I saw a map from the exit poll a little while ago and it looked like Poland A and Poland B is still very much a thing.

(https://bi.im-g.pl/im/65/e6/1c/z30305893IH.jpg)

Note that it only counts KO not all opposition parties. Still, KO only won one voivodeship (Pomerania) in 2019.

Congress poland sticking out like a sore thumb, just more proof that anything that Russia touches isn't improved by it

QuoteCongress poland sticking out like a sore thumb, just more proof that anything that Russia touches isn't improved by it

What stands out to me more is core-Poland vs. the territory gained after WW2.
Wouldn't the people in the west far more be those with a history under Russian rule?
It is curious nonetheless. I know too little about Poland to begin to guess why they've got this divide- maybe the same old story of new territory settled by a mix of people from around the place and with heavy investment to get the new territory up and running vs. continuing to tick on as usual east?
Industrial west vs. agricultural east?
Post-EU ascention and the west having better links with export markets?

It genuinely might be imperial borders (and not unique to Poland):
(https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=834,quality=80,format=auto/sites/default/files/20181124_WOC902_0.png)

But you're right the people in the west of post-war Poland probably came from the east of Poland before the war. That makes me think it's probably more material factors than culture. It was changed under Communism but in 1945 there vastly more dense railway networks, for example, and more connected towns in what is now Poland while in Russian Poland it was a sparser, less connected network. That's one example but it was, maybe, richer and more developed?

As you say because the West is settled I wonder if it's basically a bit of a new society while the East stays slightly peasant more traditional society. I believe the Polish agrarian parties also do a lot better in the East - though they're in the opposition bloc.

Another map to support the imperial thesis: Senate election results with almost 50% counted.

(https://bi.im-g.pl/im/c9/e7/1c/z30308297IH.jpg)

Funny little progressive island in the far east of the blue in Shielbh's map there; where the Belarus border heads west.
Bialystok is the big city in the area and it can be seen as more of a neutral place a little to the north west.
I wonder why that rural area is so out of line with its surroundings.

Quote from: Josquius on October 16, 2023, 06:48:31 AMFunny little progressive island in the far east of the blue in Shielbh's map there; where the Belarus border heads west.
Bialystok is the big city in the area and it can be seen as more of a neutral place a little to the north west.
I wonder why that rural area is so out of line with its surroundings.

Belarusian minority stronghold. They don't like voting for Polish nationalists

Is the Polish system proportional representation or first past the post?

It's PR - I think party lists and multi-member seats with a threshold but not totally sure :hmm:

Quote from: Jacob on October 16, 2023, 10:44:24 AMIs the Polish system proportional representation or first past the post?

Proportional for the Sejm, FTP for the Senate

Interesting. Thank you.

Fallen down a rabbit hole on this :lol: This whole thread is fascinating:
https://x.com/sheemawn/status/1714181402424738055

Edit: In particular really interesting on some of the distinctive features of formerly Austrian Poland as well as how in some cases you can see the shape/impact of interwar Poland too.

Edit: Is this just Poland, is it just more visible/extreme in Poland or is it just that Poland's been screwed so much historically that there's lots of historical borders to look at?

Quote from: Sheilbh on October 17, 2023, 10:49:36 AMFallen down a rabbit hole on this :lol: This whole thread is fascinating:
https://x.com/sheemawn/status/1714181402424738055

Edit: In particular really interesting on some of the distinctive features of formerly Austrian Poland as well as how in some cases you can see the shape/impact of interwar Poland too.

Edit: Is this just Poland, is it just more visible/extreme in Poland or is it just that Poland's been screwed so much historically that there's lots of historical borders to look at?

Always worth a disclaimer that correlation doesn't equal causation and all that - the famous relationship between a decline in pirates and global warming for instance.
It's fun and interesting but i imagine there are lots of things that don't link up to the borders.

Though it is a curious thought that maybe it's down to buildings and the built environment in which people grow up and live impacting people as much as we impact our environment.
Those people in the rural east without indoor toilets venting their frustration over icy January shits at immigrants. :hmm:

I know PiS and Kaczyński have flirted with authoritarianism, but given how strong they have been on Ukraine (other than wheat) I'm a little sad to see them leave.  I know Tusk hasn't said he'd stop supporting Ukraine or anything, but still...

Quote from: Josquius on October 17, 2023, 04:03:35 PMAlways worth a disclaimer that correlation doesn't equal causation and all that - the famous relationship between a decline in pirates and global warming for instance.
It's fun and interesting but i imagine there are lots of things that don't link up to the borders.

Though it is a curious thought that maybe it's down to buildings and the built environment in which people grow up and live impacting people as much as we impact our environment.
Those people in the rural east without indoor toilets venting their frustration over icy January shits at immigrants. :hmm:

:lol: Sure so I don't think it is "culture" or anything quite like that.

But to the extent borders mark different legal codes, different economic structures and systems, possibly supported by, say, inheritance rules as well as levels of public services and wider built environment/development - then I think they will have a development in politics. Because I think those sort of things are the drivers of 90% of politics.

Poland isn't the England of the 50s Josqs, everyone has indoor toilets I am sure. :p

Quote from: Tamas on October 17, 2023, 06:48:13 PMPoland isn't the England of the 50s Josqs, everyone has indoor toilets I am sure. :p

number 3 on the twitter thread.

Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2023, 04:23:34 PMI know PiS and Kaczyński have flirted with authoritarianism, but given how strong they have been on Ukraine (other than wheat) I'm a little sad to see them leave.  I know Tusk hasn't said he'd stop supporting Ukraine or anything, but still...

They've done a lot more than flirt. They've taken it out for steak and a movie and got to third base at the back of the cinema.

I'm not sure that they are so supportive of Ukraine right now...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66873495

Yeah BB, Kaxczynski  very enthusiastically tried to copy Orban's playbook, he was just too impatient and wanted it quicker than he did, plus the EU and his own populace smarted up after seeing Hungary.