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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PM

Title: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PM
Coronation: Public invited to swear allegiance to King Charles (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65435426)

Loyal Canadians should not forget to wake up at 4:00am ET to swear their allegiance to their new majesty.
2:00 AM for Edmonton and 1:00AM for Vancouver.
Be sure to put it on your calendar.

You can thank me later.  It's optional for Malta, being totally independent, but if Maltese want to join in, feel free to look up the correct time.

French citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Tonitrus on April 30, 2023, 10:04:27 PM
I will remember to dump some tea down the sink.  :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: mongers on April 30, 2023, 10:29:11 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 30, 2023, 10:04:27 PMI will remember to dump some tea down the sink.  :P

That's a euphemism, isn't it?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: HVC on April 30, 2023, 10:40:02 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 30, 2023, 10:04:27 PMI will remember to dump some tea down the sink.  :P

Just pay your damn taxes :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on April 30, 2023, 10:58:01 PM
Yet again I'm annoyed that Malta's referendum to become part of the UK wasn't honoured :(

Definitely the strangest place I've ever visited as a British tourist.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on May 01, 2023, 01:43:24 AM
I really like Malta, a fascinating place, the density of interesting places there is incredible  :cool:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: garbon on May 01, 2023, 02:37:35 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 30, 2023, 10:58:01 PMDefinitely the strangest place I've ever visited as a British tourist.

What was strange?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josquius on May 01, 2023, 02:41:14 AM
I eagerly await the recordings of absolute wastes screaming at their tele
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: celedhring on May 01, 2023, 03:31:39 AM
What happens if I recite the pledge of allegiance?

And if I do it three times in front of a mirror?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: garbon on May 01, 2023, 04:19:50 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 01, 2023, 03:31:39 AMWhat happens if I recite the pledge of allegiance?

And if I do it three times in front of a mirror?

My husband suggested I participate as practice.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josephus on May 01, 2023, 05:58:29 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PMCoronation: Public invited to swear allegiance to King Charles (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65435426)

Loyal Canadians should not forget to wake up at 4:00am ET to swear their allegiance to their new majesty.
2:00 AM for Edmonton and 1:00AM for Vancouver.
Be sure to put it on your calendar.

You can thank me later.  It's optional for Malta, being totally independent, but if Maltese want to join in, feel free to look up the correct time.

French citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.

I'm Maltese and Canadian. Is it optional?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josephus on May 01, 2023, 05:59:10 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 30, 2023, 10:58:01 PMYet again I'm annoyed that Malta's referendum to become part of the UK wasn't honoured :(

Definitely the strangest place I've ever visited as a British tourist.

How so? I'll be back there next month
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 01, 2023, 06:55:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2023, 02:37:35 AMWhat was strange?
There are things about it that feel very, very British in a way that I found quite jarring given the setting, climate and everything else about Malta :lol:

I can't describe it well but it was like you're on holiday in a Mediterranean island and then there'd be moments when the fourth wall would and home would be staring at you.

QuoteI really like Malta, a fascinating place, the density of interesting places there is incredible  :cool:
Yeah I liked it a lot. Gozo was also well worth a visit.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: garbon on May 01, 2023, 07:08:35 AM
Yeah I asked as I visited as an American so wondered if there was something subtle that I missed.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 01, 2023, 07:13:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2023, 07:08:35 AMYeah I asked as I visited as an American so wondered if there was something subtle that I missed.
Yeah - it's not like it's a tourist area knowing there'll be loads of Brits (or Americans) so there's things that are recognisably British.

It's been ages since I was there and there's been an entire pandemic in between - so I can't remember any specific examples. I just remember a few times have that sense - almost deja vu-y - of seeing something I didn't expect on holiday/in another country.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 01, 2023, 07:30:00 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PMFrench citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.

Why only the French? It's discrimination!  :angry:  :frog:  :D
Any republican really, or non-subject of Charles III really. :P

Or is it one of those awful accommodements raisonnables?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Grey Fox on May 01, 2023, 07:48:15 AM
Je, Grey Fox, jure que je serai fidèle et porterai une vraie allégeance à Sa Majesté le Roi Charles III.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 01, 2023, 07:51:41 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 01, 2023, 07:48:15 AMMoi, Grey Fox, jure que je serai fidèle et porterai une vraie allégeance à Sa Majesté le Roi Charles III.

Corrigé ! :contract:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 01, 2023, 08:42:13 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 01, 2023, 03:31:39 AMWhat happens if I recite the pledge of allegiance?

And if I do it three times in front of a mirror?
:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:
You start speaking in a weird accent and use words like "mate" every 3 words, and tea becomes a pleasant beverage in the afternoon.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 01, 2023, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 01, 2023, 05:58:29 AMI'm Maltese and Canadian. Is it optional?
Only if you're in Malta Saturday.
Otherwise, you have to demonstrate fealty to your new Lord.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: mongers on May 01, 2023, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 01, 2023, 06:55:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2023, 02:37:35 AMWhat was strange?

There are things about it that feel very, very British in a way that I found quite jarring given the setting, climate and everything else about Malta :lol:

I can't describe it well but it was like you're on holiday in a Mediterranean island and then there'd be moments when the fourth wall would and home would be staring at you.


QuoteI really like Malta, a fascinating place, the density of interesting places there is incredible  :cool:
Yeah I liked it a lot. Gozo was also well worth a visit.

Sounds like the mirror image experience of visiting Portmeirion. :wub:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Syt on May 01, 2023, 11:06:07 AM
An Israeli colleague described Malta as "quite similar to other Arab and Palestinian settlements in the Levant."  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josephus on May 01, 2023, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 01, 2023, 11:06:07 AMAn Israeli colleague described Malta as "quite similar to other Arab and Palestinian settlements in the Levant."  :ph34r:

First time I went to Israel, thing that struck me was the similarites between Israel and Malta. Tel Aviv reminded me a lot Malta's coast cities like Sliema. Jerusalem, with its stone architecture, reminded me of Valletta and Mdina.

A few less Jews in Malta.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Syt on May 01, 2023, 12:33:35 PM
What I found striking is how you walk like three corners from the posh yacht harbor and 5* hotel in Portomaso and suddenly come to people keeping geese and ducks in their disheveled gardens and all kinds of electric wiring going out of/into holes in walls that were not in the original plans for the buildings (if indeed any plans existed) - and looking like the whole structure might come down any moment.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Grey Fox on May 01, 2023, 12:46:35 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 01, 2023, 07:51:41 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 01, 2023, 07:48:15 AMMoi, Grey Fox, jure que je serai fidèle et porterai une vraie allégeance à Sa Majesté le Roi Charles III.

Corrigé ! :contract:

Eh, I didn't write the thing.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 01, 2023, 01:40:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PMFrench citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.

The French weren't even willing to guillotine Charles X, much less Charles III. They just lost their taste for it after that one time.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 01, 2023, 02:41:15 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 01, 2023, 12:46:35 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 01, 2023, 07:51:41 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 01, 2023, 07:48:15 AMMoi, Grey Fox, jure que je serai fidèle et porterai une vraie allégeance à Sa Majesté le Roi Charles III.

Corrigé ! :contract:

Eh, I didn't write the thing.

Yet you swore.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Grey Fox on May 01, 2023, 04:39:06 PM
Caliss.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: HVC on May 01, 2023, 04:51:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 01, 2023, 01:40:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PMFrench citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.

The French weren't even willing to guillotine Charles X, much less Charles III. They just lost their taste for it after that one time.

France is a republic in search of a king :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 01, 2023, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 01, 2023, 07:30:00 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PMFrench citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.

Why only the French? It's discrimination!  :angry:  :frog:  :D
Any republican really, or non-subject of Charles III really. :P

Or is it one of those awful accommodement raisonnables?  :hmm:
Yes, it's one of those awful things.  Canada is very strong on multiculturalism.  They may not tolerate the guillotine for humans though. :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 01, 2023, 07:42:05 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 01, 2023, 04:51:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 01, 2023, 01:40:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PMFrench citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.

The French weren't even willing to guillotine Charles X, much less Charles III. They just lost their taste for it after that one time.

France is a republic in search of a king :P
Emmanuel Macron says its a good idea and he'll soon be available :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 02, 2023, 07:24:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 01, 2023, 04:51:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 01, 2023, 01:40:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 30, 2023, 09:03:19 PMFrench citizens currently living in Canada are dispensed from swearing allegiance due to cultural exceptions.  Something to do with the guillotine, apparently.

The French weren't even willing to guillotine Charles X, much less Charles III. They just lost their taste for it after that one time.

France is a republic in search of a king :P

Don't worry, there is worse er... better, a god: Zupiter!  :D
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 02, 2023, 07:27:57 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 01, 2023, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 01, 2023, 11:06:07 AMAn Israeli colleague described Malta as "quite similar to other Arab and Palestinian settlements in the Levant."  :ph34r:

First time I went to Israel, thing that struck me was the similarites between Israel and Malta. Tel Aviv reminded me a lot Malta's coast cities like Sliema. Jerusalem, with its stone architecture, reminded me of Valletta and Mdina.

A few less Jews in Malta.

Maltese is a semitic language, related to Arabic (cf. Mdina) with a strong South Italian (Sicilian) influence.
I don't find that surprising. The religion is different of course but then even in the Levant you can find some "Arabs" such as the Lebanese/"Phoenician" maronites (they do not identify themselves necessarily as Arabs).
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 05, 2023, 09:19:08 AM
Giant Penis mowed onto Royal Coronation Site in Bath England, Officials are not amused

(https://i.imgur.com/0aP8cPW.jpeg)

Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: mongers on May 05, 2023, 09:24:42 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 05, 2023, 09:19:08 AMGiant Penis mowed onto Royal Coronation Site in Bath England, Officials are not amused

snip


That's the most constructive use of that space I've seen, usually when you pass it's just a tourist space as part of the 'Jane Austen* Fantasy World' experience.

* Not especially sure or interested who it is that international tourists find So fascinating about the fantasied Georgian period.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: garbon on May 05, 2023, 06:09:20 PM
I bought and constructed some Union Jack paper chains. Almost all the tat was already sold out?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 05, 2023, 06:17:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 05, 2023, 06:09:20 PMI bought and constructed some Union Jack paper chains. Almost all the tat was already sold out?
I'll give you bonus point for integration into your country of adoption.  When are you becoming a British citizen? :D
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2023, 09:03:36 PM
Where does your accent now fall?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: HVC on May 05, 2023, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2023, 09:03:36 PMWhere does your accent now fall?

On a scale between 80s Madonna and late 2000 Madonna :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2023, 09:15:46 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 05, 2023, 09:09:24 PMOn a scale between 80s Madonna and late 2000 Madonna :P

20 fake quatloos says he's broken the Madonna line.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: HVC on May 05, 2023, 09:18:30 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2023, 09:15:46 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 05, 2023, 09:09:24 PMOn a scale between 80s Madonna and late 2000 Madonna :P

20 fake quatloos says he's broken the Madonna line.

I'll take that bet. I say idioms but not a strong accent :contract:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 05, 2023, 10:02:58 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 05, 2023, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2023, 09:03:36 PMWhere does your accent now fall?

On a scale between 80s Madonna and late 2000 Madonna :P

Can't remember Madonna, but on a scale of Jean-Luc Picard to Guy Ritchie movie, I itch to know where he falls. :P

Those darn movies are hard to follow! ( I just finished The Gentlemen, boy, was that something!)
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Legbiter on May 05, 2023, 11:58:46 PM
Brits, don't fuck this up for your sovereign Bretavaldur.  -_-

I want to see Tamas symbolically stepped on as Charles mounts the dais to his throne as befits a Loyal Subject. Smells and bells, give it all you got. There better be chrismation with holy oil. Welsh bowmen swearing fealty as clearly stipulated in the 1331 treaty of Llanddewi Brefi, etc.

My ancestor Egill Skallagrímsson took a chance on Athelstan, swore him fealty, and it served him well. Show us you still got it.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Tonitrus on May 06, 2023, 12:04:33 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2023, 09:15:46 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 05, 2023, 09:09:24 PMOn a scale between 80s Madonna and late 2000 Madonna :P

20 fake quatloos says he's broken the Madonna line.

That ain't no bet, lots of guys have broken the Madonna line.  :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 04:39:38 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on May 05, 2023, 11:58:46 PMBrits, don't fuck this up for your sovereign Bretavaldur.  -_-

I want to see Tamas symbolically stepped on as Charles mounts the dais to his throne as befits a Loyal Subject. Smells and bells, give it all you got. There better be chrismation with holy oil. Welsh bowmen swearing fealty as clearly stipulated in the 1331 treaty of Llanddewi Brefi, etc.

My ancestor Egill Skallagrímsson took a chance on Athelstan, swore him fealty, and it served him well. Show us you still got it.
They've definitely gone in on smells and bells.

There is annointing oil (now vegan) - made from olives harvested from the monastery in Greece where Charles' grandmother (on Philip's side) is buried, pressed in Bethlehem and then consectrated by the Patriarch or Jerusalemn and an Anglican Archbishop.

Also Welsh, Scots Gaelic and Irish will be used in the service for some of it.

Plus gun salutes at the moment the crown is put on Charles' head - both across the country and by Royal Navy vessels at sea.

Personally I am hyped for hearing Zadok the Priest out in the wild :ph34r:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josquius on May 06, 2023, 05:47:19 AM
And with zadok the priest Charles is declared king of all football.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josephus on May 06, 2023, 06:10:23 AM
Who is the chick in green holding the sword?  She's well stacked
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 06, 2023, 06:10:23 AMWho is the chick in green holding the sword?  She's well stacked
Penny Mordaunt, Leader of the House of Commons (so also Lord President of the Council/technically presiding over the Privy Council) - and former Tory leadersip candidate.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: garbon on May 06, 2023, 06:26:23 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 06, 2023, 06:10:23 AMWho is the chick in green holding the sword?  She's well stacked
Penny Mordaunt, Leader of the House of Commons (so also Lord President of the Council/technically presiding over the Privy Council) - and former Tory leadersip candidate.

Leaving out the porn twin bro
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 06:27:52 AM
What? :lol:

I must have missed that story.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: garbon on May 06, 2023, 06:31:11 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 06:27:52 AMWhat? :lol:

I must have missed that story.

Well not actually porn, but James Mordaunt does like to show it off.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 06:58:51 AM
I was not aware - clear the family is a little attention seeking :lol:

She is still carrying that sword.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Legbiter on May 06, 2023, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 06, 2023, 06:10:23 AMWho is the chick in green holding the sword?  She's well stacked

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvcZLNlWIAEy_3E?format=jpg&name=900x900)

She carried it very competently. What formal position do you have to snag to get to perform this function?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2023, 10:53:36 AM
Speaker of the House of Parliament, IIRC.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 11:00:20 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 06, 2023, 10:53:36 AMSpeaker of the House of Parliament, IIRC.
Leader of the House of Commons (it's because they're technically the presiding officer of the Privy Council) - which is a cabinet role basically in charge of managing and scheduling the government's legislative business in the Commons.

She didn't just walk in with it either but held it by the altar - in that position - for the entire service.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Zanza on May 06, 2023, 03:15:26 PM
It's all a bit silly. How can you take such a show serious?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 04:17:56 PM
It is silly - but I think it depends what you mean by serious.

I think in very general terms, people don't take it seriously. This is a country where over 50% say they don't believe in any religion - I rather doubt they're suddenly believing in the annointment of monarchs. It is, for the vast majority of people, a bit of a show, a long weekend, a day out to see a big parade and (diminished) flypast - plus do some shopping in town (this was the theme of the poet laureate's poem). Around the country, cathedrals were hosting community events to watch the coronation - and I think this captures what it was like for probably most people, a bit of a show and make a day of it with family/friends/their local community with a buffet lunch and tea:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvdYEZQWcAA4UVe?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FveMBnvWAAAE-2w?format=jpg&name=small)

Having those events in cathedrals are perhaps particularly apt. As they're similar to the monarchy - if there's one around it might be nice to visit for a day out. They're quite nice for special occasions (carol services, say) and do some lovely work in the community. They're simultaneously woven into the heart of our society - literally in the hearts of our cities - with, in theory, a role in governance (but practically, it's vestigal) and utterly irrelevant to the vast majority of people's lives.

Edit: Also just saw about the 150 dog King Charles Spaniel parade in Chelsea (a "fitting tribute" according to the organisers). That is not I'd suggest the behaviour of people who believe they're witnessing a sacred moment :lol: Or, perhaps most generously, people's views are all a bit tongue in cheek - simultaneously serious and not.

On another level - maybe theory - I think there is something serious going on about the military side of this, which I was really struck by. Like republican events of pomp and pagaentry - national days, inaugurations, marking transfers of power - I think there is something going on of military and civil and marking the move from one head of state to another formally. I got a little obsessed with this this afternoon and have now seen that Charles has been visiting loads of regiments recently and getting their new colours presented to him.

At a historic level there's something serious about it too. A lot of British royal traditions have been invented in the last 200 years (to reflect power because of empire and compete in Europe's ceremonial arms race). Coronations aren't one of them - we have orders of service going back a thousand years and the outline is broadly similar, they also used Zadok the Priest (though not Handel's version :lol:) and they've been on broadly that spot. It is an event that would be recognisable to anyone from Europe in the last thousand years and purports, bluntly, to do magic. It involved the oldest gospel in the country (6th century), a 13th century mosaic floor made by Italian artisans (inspired by Byzantium), jewels worn by Henry V - and I think there is somethng serious in that. In the same way I think there's something serious about any grand religious festival, Easter in Rome, the kumbh mela or the Hajj or, for that matter, the enthronement of a Japanese Emperor. I think the challenge is can you sustain that with the first group (the public) who just see a show's increasing distance from its historical/spiritual purposes. Maybe - and maybe if the participants believe. The Queen certainly did and I suspect Charles, given everything we know about him, will have found it spiritually moving.

On another level I also think there is something serious which is the BBC. As the monarchy operates above party politics I think the BBC views it as non-political so there is no requirement for objectivity or providing equal space to both sides. They do acknowledge that it's not everyone's cup of tea and some people will really have not enjoyed it. But when there's a royal event the BBC is basically fully state media in a way it never is over politics (except, I think, over covid when I think it also saw its job as rallying the nation and amplifying the single message of covid guidance/rules). In part I think that probably just reflects the large group who just enjoy the show and don't want to be troubled with harrangues about the iniquity of inherited privilege when they're trying to enjoy a bank holiday. A solid 20-25% of Brits want a republic. You wouldn't know that from BBC coverage and, of course, the monarchy, the armed forces, the church, our constitution - are all deeply political, if not party political. I think the BBC needs to find a way to accommodate that and to strive a bit more to reflect the nation than I think they do on royal events. Especially as, of course, in another comparison with those cathedrals - they're both big landowners, with vast wealth (in theory held in some form of trust for the nation) and a place in the social structure.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2023, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 06, 2023, 03:15:26 PMIt's all a bit silly. How can you take such a show serious?

Because it is the price the British have to pay for the deal they struck with their monarchy in the 18th century in exchange for a peaceful transition to a parliamentary government. The monarchs pretend to rule and the people pretend to be subjects and everybody goes about their business. Sure beats all the horrendous bullshit you Germans had to put up with in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Besides Germany is surrounded by lots of fake monarchies. The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway...not sure why Britain would appear especially silly to you guys.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 06:43:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 06, 2023, 06:23:12 PMBesides Germany is surrounded by lots of fake monarchies. The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway...not sure why Britain would appear especially silly to you guys.
Britain's the only country in Europe that does a (Christian) coronation - although Tonga has a Methodist coronation ceremony which is modeled on the British.

Not sure it's obviously less silly to have a monarchy but not do a coronation :lol: Although I suppose the big annual holiday in the Netherlands is King's Day - which is the King's birthday.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2023, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 06, 2023, 06:43:51 PMNot sure it's obviously less silly to have a monarchy but not do a coronation :lol:

Yeah. If you cannot cosplay like its the 13th century what are you even doing with your 21st century fake monarchy?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 12:02:49 PM
Incidentally I suspect the palace will view yesterday as a success - initial viewing figures are about 20 million (which is about the level you get for a big sporting event). People turned out, despite the rain.

Today's the day when they're doing the "Coronation Big Lunch" and encouraging communities to have street parties - close the street, cook food to share with your neighbours, let the kids play on the road, have a few drinks etc. Tonight will be the concert and then tomorrow they're encouraging people to sign up for volunteering opportunities in their community.

I live in relatively central South London. It's a diverse area, it's built up and relatively dense. I've just been up and down Walworth Road and walked past two street parties (one with a bouncy castle). I imagine if that's happening here there'll be plenty going on middle England. So, I imagine, mission accomplished for the palace.

Basically it seems to have followed the script of every royal event I can remember.

Edit: I also see viewership in France hit 9 million and six hours of live coverage :lol: Maybe they are just waiting for a legitimate Bonaparte restoration :hmm: I saw a Spanish reporter note that there seemed to be more interest, reporters and coverage by republics (particularly France and the US) than monarchies (like Spain) which is maybe interesting.

Edit: Guardian piece on one of those street parties in Leeds: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/07/everyones-welcome-community-unites-at-coronation-big-lunch-in-leeds As I say for most people it'll be going to things like that, watching it on TV that defines the coronation not the arguably more serious angles.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2023, 12:16:21 PM
I don't know. I checked it out. It was interesting, kind of like watching a historical reenactment. Also watching military parades done by countries allied with mine feels weirdly satisfying. Like hey if we do end up in a war with China maybe some of these people will help out or something.

And I appreciated all the cameos by my Canadian neighbors.

Doesn't mean I have any interest in establishing a Texas monarchy. And if we did everybody would want the king to be Jesus anyway, like Poland or something.

But maybe the big lesson for the UK is the monarchy would never be more popular than after you abolish it.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: The Brain on May 07, 2023, 12:29:19 PM
Did they read everything from cue cards back in the day? Did they at the previous coronation?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 07, 2023, 12:29:19 PMDid they read everything from cue cards back in the day? Did they at the previous coronation?

I don't know. I just had it on in the background so I don't know if the BBC mentioned they were using the original 16th century cue cards from the coronation of Edward VI or something.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 07, 2023, 12:29:19 PMDid they read everything from cue cards back in the day? Did they at the previous coronation?
:lol: I imagine they used specially made vellum orders of services back in the day. When I was an altar server as a kid I spent a lot of time holding a book of services for the priest to read prayers out of - I believe these have now largely been replaced by sacred ring-binders.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2023, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 12:42:40 PMI believe these have now largely been replaced by sacred ring-binders.

 :lmfao:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: The Brain on May 07, 2023, 12:55:17 PM
I mean, I understand the feeling of safety of having cue cards, but have they never been in a school play or similar?
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 07, 2023, 12:55:17 PMI mean, I understand the feeling of safety of having cue cards, but have they never been in a school play or similar?
I quite enjoyed the Archbishop of Canterbury's "in the name of the *checks notes* Lord". It's very Peter Cook in The Princess Bride.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2023, 02:30:54 PM
A cowonation, that bwessed arrangment. That dweem within a dween.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 07, 2023, 02:42:45 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 07, 2023, 12:55:17 PMI mean, I understand the feeling of safety of having cue cards, but have they never been in a school play or similar?
I quite enjoyed the Archbishop of Canterbury's "in the name of the *checks notes* Lord". It's very Peter Cook in The Princess Bride.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 07, 2023, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 12:02:49 PMIncidentally I suspect the palace will view yesterday as a success
I can't imagine reading a communique like:
"The crowning was a failure.  Not enough British citizens attended.  As a consequence, Prince Charles the 3rd and all the Royal family will renounce all privileges and pay taxes like everyone else when they work, effective immediately".
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: garbon on May 07, 2023, 03:49:21 PM
Katy Perry using her sing lyrics about the 4th of July at the coronation concert. :shifty:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 03:59:54 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 07, 2023, 03:35:48 PMI can't imagine reading a communique like:
"The crowning was a failure.  Not enough British citizens attended.  As a consequence, Prince Charles the 3rd and all the Royal family will renounce all privileges and pay taxes like everyone else when they work, effective immediately".
:lol:

No. But failure would be if people didn't watch, didn't turn up in London or reacted badly - like was happening in the 90s (especially with Diana's death).

So they changed. Started paying their taxes on income, pushed a lot of hangers on off stage, got new media people and a new deal with the media etc. The palace will be watching public response closely because it's ultimately the basis of them existing.

QuoteKaty Perry using her sing lyrics about the 4th of July at the coronation concert. :shifty:
:lol:

Also I'm never not surprised at how impressive British crowds find a drone display.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josquius on May 07, 2023, 04:03:31 PM
Apparently 9 million French watched it live :blink:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: HVC on May 07, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 01, 2023, 04:51:09 PMFrance is a republic in search of a king :P

:contract: :D
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 05:10:44 PM
Yeah it made me think of Macron's line. Maybe he is right about it :ph34r:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 07, 2023, 05:51:13 PM
Incredibly on brand that Rishi Sunak would love Take That this much :lol:
https://twitter.com/sportingintel/status/1655343927539519494
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 07, 2023, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 07, 2023, 04:03:31 PMApparently 9 million French watched it live :blink:
The Euro tunnel was a mistake :(
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Maladict on May 08, 2023, 09:40:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 07, 2023, 03:49:21 PMKaty Perry using her sing lyrics about the 4th of July at the coronation concert. :shifty:

I doubt she gets to pick the song.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2023, 10:39:30 AM
Quote from: Josquius on May 07, 2023, 04:03:31 PMApparently 9 million French watched it live :blink:

If true, bring back the Comité de Salut Public and Fouquier-Tinville(s).  :frog:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2023, 10:40:06 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 07, 2023, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 07, 2023, 04:03:31 PMApparently 9 million French watched it live :blink:
The Euro tunnel was a mistake :(


For whom? The Brits?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 08, 2023, 12:22:27 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2023, 10:40:06 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 07, 2023, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 07, 2023, 04:03:31 PMApparently 9 million French watched it live :blink:
The Euro tunnel was a mistake :(


For whom? The Brits?  :hmm:
For the French.  You've been invaded by a bunch of British monarchy adorers! :cry:
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2023, 12:44:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 06, 2023, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 06, 2023, 03:15:26 PMIt's all a bit silly. How can you take such a show serious?

Because it is the price the British have to pay for the deal they struck with their monarchy in the 18th century in exchange for a peaceful transition to a parliamentary government. The monarchs pretend to rule and the people pretend to be subjects and everybody goes about their business. Sure beats all the horrendous bullshit you Germans had to put up with in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Besides Germany is surrounded by lots of fake monarchies. The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway...not sure why Britain would appear especially silly to you guys.
Not sure what those other places or British history has to do with it. I feel it is silly by itself regardless of what other countries do or how it came to be. But as I also don't take it serious I guess it is just some harmless fun the Brits have.

That said - if you want to compare - Dutch Kings Day looks more fun.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 08, 2023, 12:44:56 PMThat said - if you want to compare - Dutch Kings Day looks more fun.
Agree. I wish we had a proper national holiday (even if it was royal related) or national holidays, instead of "early May bank holiday", "late May bank holiday", "August bank holiday". The extra day off is nice but, with the exception of August and Notting Hill Carnival, they don't really have any events/excuse for a party. Or even any reasoning/"day of..." explanation.

Obviously exception is the Easter holidays and Christmas but those are different.

But we probably won't get another long weekend like this until Jubilee/death of King Charles/Prince George getting married - which is probably a fairly long way away :(

Although I suppose a minor quibble is that King's Day is an annual national holiday on the Dutch monarch's birthday, their inauguration looks more like this:
(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/748759e/2147483647/strip/true/crop/923x615+0+0/resize/923x615!/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F2f%2Fd8%2F593e9cfb82a27023f46bbddf98a4%2Fla-fg-royal-inauguration-for-new-dutch-king-pi-009)
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Barrister on May 08, 2023, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 08, 2023, 12:44:56 PMThat said - if you want to compare - Dutch Kings Day looks more fun.
Agree. I wish we had a proper national holiday (even if it was royal related) or national holidays, instead of "early May bank holiday", "late May bank holiday", "August bank holiday". The extra day off is nice but, with the exception of August and Notting Hill Carnival, they don't really have any events/excuse for a party. Or even any reasoning/"day of..." explanation.

You mean the UK doesn't even celebrate Victoria Day? :o

(used to be known as Empire Day, then Commonwealth Day, now Victoria Day).  It's the unofficial start to summer.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2023, 01:27:27 PM
Wiki says the UK, and all the non-Canadian parts of the Commonwealth that share the monarchy, have the King's Birthday which is celebrated in May or June regardless of when the King's actual birthday is. Huh.

But it is basically the same holiday.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 01:31:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 08, 2023, 01:21:18 PMYou mean the UK doesn't even celebrate Victoria Day? :o

(used to be known as Empire Day, then Commonwealth Day, now Victoria Day).  It's the unofficial start to summer.
We don't even celebrate Trafalgar Day :o :weep:

But except for Christmas/New Year's and Easter none of our bank holidays have any "meaning" really. I just checked next year and they're literally described as "early May bank holiday", "spring bank holiday" and "summer bank holiday".

Although interesting - I just looked up Victoria Day and saw that there are some councils in Scotland that do local events (obviously not a public holiday) and it makes total sense that there'd be some observations there given the Scotland-Canada links.

QuoteWiki says the UK, and all the non-Canadian parts of the Commonwealth that share the monarchy, have the King's Birthday which is celebrated in May or June regardless of when the King's actual birthday is. Huh.

But it is basically the same holiday.
It's not a holiday though. Everyone goes to work. Some horses walk thorugh central London but there's no opportunity for the general public to have a boozey weekend and party.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Zanza on May 08, 2023, 01:55:08 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 01:09:26 PM(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/748759e/2147483647/strip/true/crop/923x615+0+0/resize/923x615!/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F2f%2Fd8%2F593e9cfb82a27023f46bbddf98a4%2Fla-fg-royal-inauguration-for-new-dutch-king-pi-009)
What kind of urgent business did the lady with the blue band have that she turns away from the action?  :hmm:

Anyway that also looks silly, but a bit provincial compared to the British pomp.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 08, 2023, 01:55:08 PMAnyway that also looks silly, but a bit provincial compared to the British pomp.
Monarchy is an absurd system. The most silly I'd argue - or possibly mysterious and quasi-magical - is the Japanese enthronement. The Japanese imperial regalia is so sacred that only the Emperor and some very senior shinto priests are allowed to see it. So when it is displayed in public for the enthronement they're in boxes - and therer are genuine questions over whether they exist or not :lol:

But if you have a monarchy I'm not sure a service where someone is consecrated a monarch (Norway), or inaugurated with the crown on a cushion (the Netherlands), or annointed and crowned (Britain) is any more or less daft. It's why I find the Guardian line a bit weird. It's basically that they are okay with constitutional monarchy as a political settlement - but think the ceremonies should be brought up to date and made relevant.

I don't think you can make having the head of state by descent from a particularly successful Norman warlord - or its ideological superstructure - more relevant or up to date.

Maybe I'm too cynical but I think you can by all means get rid of it (and you'll have other ceremonies in its place) - but otherwise, while we can make it reflect modern British society more (minority faith leaders, audience of "community heroes" in the Abbey, Bible reading from a Hindu PM) I think there is a limit of what you can actually do because of the nature of the institution itself.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 08, 2023, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 02:19:21 PMbut think the ceremonies should be brought up to date and made relevant.

that's something that can backfire bigtime though. It's not a real problem for certain ceremonies to be (a bit) anachronistic. It reminds the people that they standing on the shoulders of their ancestors.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Jacob on May 08, 2023, 02:31:53 PM
Man, I'm trying to find pictures of what the coronation looks like in Denmark and all I can find are pictures of the Prime Minister proclaiming the new Queen from a balcony at the royal palace.

I guess maybe in Denmark it's the proclamation that has mattered more than the act of putting the crown on the head. Makes sense, I suppose, given the old laws requiring the monarch to be proclaimed at the different great Things in the country to take the throne.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Valmy on May 08, 2023, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 01:31:20 PMIt's not a holiday though. Everyone goes to work. Some horses walk thorugh central London but there's no opportunity for the general public to have a boozey weekend and party.

What? Well there is one obvious way to help secure the institution of Monarchy against encroaching Republicanism  :lol:

Especially as the other Bank Holidays seem arbitrarily placed.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Jacob on May 08, 2023, 02:36:08 PM
Just looked it up...

Orginally Denmark had an elective monarchy where the main thing was to be elected/ acclaimed at the Thing assemblies. This lasted until 1660, when it was replaced with a hereditary monarchy with anointment and a coronation etc.

Quote from: wikipediaThis rite was in turn abolished with the introduction of the Danish constitution in 1849. Today the crown of Denmark is only displayed at the monarch's funeral, when it sits atop their coffin. The present queen, Margrethe II, did not have any formal enthronement service; a public announcement of her accession was made from the balcony of Christiansborg Palace, with the new sovereign being acclaimed by her prime minister at the time (1972), Jens Otto Krag, then cheered with a ninefold "hurrah" by the crowds below.

This explains why I couldn't find any pictures....
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josephus on May 08, 2023, 03:06:48 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 08, 2023, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 02:19:21 PMbut think the ceremonies should be brought up to date and made relevant.

that's something that can backfire bigtime though. It's not a real problem for certain ceremonies to be (a bit) anachronistic. It reminds the people that they standing on the shoulders of their ancestors.


The only reason people watch is for the pomp and ceremony. I don't give a shit for the monarchy but when there is a coronation, I want to see it all, orbs, sword carrying ladies, gold dressing gowns, funny hats, the works.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2023, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 08, 2023, 12:22:27 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 08, 2023, 10:40:06 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 07, 2023, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 07, 2023, 04:03:31 PMApparently 9 million French watched it live :blink:
The Euro tunnel was a mistake :(


For whom? The Brits?  :hmm:
For the French.  You've been invaded by a bunch of British monarchy adorers! :cry:


Nah, I blame immature midinettes.  :P
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 08, 2023, 05:50:17 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2023, 01:31:20 PMbut there's no opportunity for the general public to have a boozey weekend and party.
Outside of St-Jean-Baptiste, I've never had that kind of weekend.  I've always worked.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Josquius on May 09, 2023, 04:48:23 AM
Not sure how I'll survive next week. 5 days of work <_<
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: viper37 on May 09, 2023, 08:01:00 AM
(https://lescoopsdelinformation-le-soleil-prod.web.arc-cdn.net/resizer/lJgwQt3FiZcEy9-QPskm2i9XZWc=/800x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/lescoopsdelinformation/7LKWACG5L5HY5IUPII377BEUXM.jpg)

-The King and Queen were crowned...
-And they had lots of children !
-uh... no... The King is 74 years old and the Queen is 75.
-Your story is boring!
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Razgovory on May 09, 2023, 08:04:43 AM
I can never hear the name "Camilla" and not think of Gonzo's chicken girlfriend.
Title: Re: Just a friendly reminder to all Commonwealth citizens
Post by: Maladict on May 09, 2023, 10:08:41 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 08, 2023, 01:55:08 PMAnyway that also looks silly, but a bit provincial compared to the British pomp.

That's Calvinism for you.