Languish.org

Should Ukraine attempt to assassinate Validmir Putin as a way to possibly end the war or just seek justice?

Upsides, downsides to your choice?

They should hire Jaron to do it.

I voted in the other poll.

Quote from: garbon on February 25, 2023, 08:55:25 AMI voted in the other poll.

Thank you.  :unsure:

I think they just need to get Putin to stand near a window, that seems fatal enough in Russia.

Kill him and the war ends, so kill him if at all possible.

I deleted the erroneous poll.

Accidently voted "Don't know".  Should be "no".

Quote from: Threviel on February 25, 2023, 11:51:56 AMKill him and the war ends, so kill him if at all possible.

If only that was so simple...

I don't think the war will end.  Someone will take his place and that someone will be faced with the same challenge: retreat, be blamed and be ousted from power and likely be killed for the failures.

The best possible scenario is to wait until the Russians themselves are fed up and someone decides to eliminate him.  But that will take time and many more loss of life. :(

Norwegian chief of defence estimates casualties at 100 000 soldiers killed and wounded for Ukraine and 180 000 for Russia, plus 30 000 civilians killed (confirmed so far).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War


Having western tanks and fighter jets will be a game changer for Ukraine for sure, but the conflict will still be long and bloody.

No, as I don't see any upside, nor would it change anything.

Anyone who'd replace him will just keep the war going.  The biggest "gain" of the formal annexation of parts of Ukraine is that any successor is inherently committed to keep trying for them in order to survive politically.  And the "how" of Putin's death can still matter.  If he dies of natural causes (possible at any time at his age), it will be an "oh well" politically...a successor is more likely to come from the establishment (such as, say someone like Gerasimov)  If he is assassinated, it only serves to provide support to the more radical of the pro-war elements...those that might think trying a nuke or two would be worthwhile. 

And...better to not rock the boat when the enemy is already working hard at losing.

Quote from: Jacob on February 25, 2023, 01:17:20 PMI deleted the erroneous poll.

Thanks Jacob. :cheers:

Quote from: Tonitrus on February 25, 2023, 06:39:43 PMNo, as I don't see any upside, nor would it change anything.

Anyone who'd replace him will just keep the war going.  The biggest "gain" of the formal annexation of parts of Ukraine is that any successor is inherently committed to keep trying for them in order to survive politically.  And the "how" of Putin's death can still matter.  If he dies of natural causes (possible at any time at his age), it will be an "oh well" politically...a successor is more likely to come from the establishment (such as, say someone like Gerasimov)  If he is assassinated, it only serves to provide support to the more radical of the pro-war elements...those that might think trying a nuke or two would be worthwhile. 

And...better to not rock the boat when the enemy is already working hard at losing.

Agreed.  Napoleon wisely noted that one should "never interrupt an enemy while he is making a mistake."

There's no likely change in Russian leadership that would be a change for the better.

Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2023, 12:18:55 AM

Quote from: Tonitrus on February 25, 2023, 06:39:43 PMNo, as I don't see any upside, nor would it change anything.

Anyone who'd replace him will just keep the war going.  The biggest "gain" of the formal annexation of parts of Ukraine is that any successor is inherently committed to keep trying for them in order to survive politically.  And the "how" of Putin's death can still matter.  If he dies of natural causes (possible at any time at his age), it will be an "oh well" politically...a successor is more likely to come from the establishment (such as, say someone like Gerasimov)  If he is assassinated, it only serves to provide support to the more radical of the pro-war elements...those that might think trying a nuke or two would be worthwhile. 

And...better to not rock the boat when the enemy is already working hard at losing.

Agreed.  Napoleon wisely noted that one should "never interrupt an enemy while he is making a mistake."

There's no likely change in Russian leadership that would be a change for the better.

Agreed.  The best way for this war to end is for Putin to be removed politically by internal forces - one way or the other.  Not make a martyr out of him.  That creates the circumstances for never ending hostilities.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when a de-facto state of war exists between Ukraine and Russia, both Putin and Zelenskyy are legitimate targets, no?

Quote from: Barrister on February 27, 2023, 03:17:16 PMCorrect me if I'm wrong, but when a de-facto state of war exists between Ukraine and Russia, both Putin and Zelenskyy are legitimate targets, no?

But isn't that a different question from whether one should take out the opposing leader?

Quote from: Barrister on February 27, 2023, 03:17:16 PMCorrect me if I'm wrong, but when a de-facto state of war exists between Ukraine and Russia, both Putin and Zelenskyy are legitimate targets, no?

Yes, they are legitimate.  Russia has nothing to lose by assassinating Zelensky at this point.  But Ukraine has a lot to loose.

Quote from: viper37 on February 28, 2023, 10:14:18 AM

Quote from: Barrister on February 27, 2023, 03:17:16 PMCorrect me if I'm wrong, but when a de-facto state of war exists between Ukraine and Russia, both Putin and Zelenskyy are legitimate targets, no?

Yes, they are legitimate.  Russia has nothing to lose by assassinating Zelensky at this point.  But Ukraine has a lot to loose.

Sort of nuclear weapons and chemical battlefield weapon use, what worse things could Russia do to Ukraine?

And bare in mind those probably harbinger in a wider world war with NATO?
So I think Ukraine should at least consider it as an option, say if the war takes a bad turn perhaps.

Incidentally, is it now time to 'go after' Putin's adult children, if any still live in the West and enjoy the benefits of that. But as adults directly gaining from the Russian dictator.

They should be put on the spot, having to choose between denouncing Putin's Russia or being arrested* whilst their very likely murky financial affairs are thoroughly examined, at length.


* They'll certainly be a flight rish.

It's not what Russia would do, but what the most lukewarm Ukraine suppporters would do.

Putin has not recognized any children AFAIK, so it would likely be problematic if western countries started sanctioning them without very watertight proof of relation.

Quote from: mongers on February 28, 2023, 10:53:35 AMSort of nuclear weapons and chemical battlefield weapon use, what worse things could Russia do to Ukraine?

There is this possibility with Russia, but I was thinking more in terms of international consequences and a drop of support in public opinion and foreign government military aid if they go down that way.

QuoteAnd bare in mind those probably harbinger in a wider world war with NATO?
So I think Ukraine should at least consider it as an option, say if the war takes a bad turn perhaps.

If the war takes a bad turn, they have more pressing targets, like the competent officers on the field.

QuoteIncidentally, is it now time to 'go after' Putin's adult children, if any still live in the West and enjoy the benefits of that. But as adults directly gaining from the Russian dictator.

As in killing them? No.  As in sanctioning them?  I thought it was done already, but if not, yes, absolutely.

QuoteThey should be put on the spot, having to choose between denouncing Putin's Russia or being arrested* whilst their very likely murky financial affairs are thoroughly examined, at length.

Yes.

Quote from: Solmyr on February 28, 2023, 11:05:58 AMPutin has not recognized any children AFAIK, so it would likely be problematic if western countries started sanctioning them without very watertight proof of relation.

I think his children from his first wife have been publicly acknowledged, though on a low profile.

You might be right about any more recent children.

Maybe git rid of orban first?