Not going to call it a roundabout.
My ville recently installed one. I thought the old 4 way stop was doing just fine, but can't stand in the way of progess.
So I'm wondering if the rules/etiquette say you signal when you're in the circle to tell the guys outside the circle waiting that they can slip in.
Apparently France has 60% of the planet's ROUNDABOUTS. You don't need to signal. It's supposed to be designed in such a way that you're going slow enough that the person trying to slip in will have enough time even without you signaling.
I'm not sure if it's the rule or just courtesy but when turning right you should signal you're going way around and then when you're leaving it.
Basically no different to if it was just a cross road.
Not a Yes fan, I see.
No love for the term: rotary?
Quote from: Zoupa on July 30, 2022, 11:15:56 PMApparently France has 60% of the planet's ROUNDABOUTS. You don't need to signal. It's supposed to be designed in such a way that you're going slow enough that the person trying to slip in will have enough time even without you signaling.
A friend of mine was once stuck in one of the inner circles around the Arc de Triomphe for a couple of minutes as he did not dare to move outwards. :lol:
That one is pretty infamous. You just gotta impose yourself, folks are just going to have to hit the brakes.
Quote from: Zanza on July 31, 2022, 01:30:20 AMQuote from: Zoupa on July 30, 2022, 11:15:56 PMApparently France has 60% of the planet's ROUNDABOUTS. You don't need to signal. It's supposed to be designed in such a way that you're going slow enough that the person trying to slip in will have enough time even without you signaling.
A friend of mine was once stuck in one of the inner circles around the Arc de Triomphe for a couple of minutes as he did not dare to move outwards. :lol:
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FearlessHealthyAfricanwildcat-size_restricted.gif)
I think it's a rule you should signal, in the UK?
If you turn right (left, for you empire-less peasants) you are also suppose to indicate before you enter the roundabout.
And it does help if you signal on your way out, although I almost never risk collision (on account of the indicator being on by mistake) whether its a roundabout or some other situation.
Regarding multi-lane roundabouts, I think a critical mass of drivers must be familiar with how it is supposed to work for it to work. In the UK it works fine (many roundabouts are overcomplicated but that's a different story), but I admit I was watching Youtube videos before buying my car here to make sure I understand - in Hungary I found that most efforts to use multi-lanes properly was way too risky as there wasn't this critical mass of people doing it right, which forced me to ignore inner lanes most of the time as well. But the situation may have improved since.
Overall my conclusion of UK roundabouts is that they work great when every driver in them is already familiar with that particular roundabout. But they can be quite the pain when it's your first time in them (as many of them are large and/or complex), or if there are others trying to find their way in some of the elaborate ones without Google Maps navigation.
Quote from: Zoupa on July 30, 2022, 11:15:56 PMYou don't need to signal. It's supposed to be designed in such a way that you're going slow enough that the person trying to slip in will have enough time even without you signaling.
And you sneer at the Anglo-Saxons :P
That's a really laissez faire attitude to driving and safety.
Definitely signal.
Also signal because it helps pedestrians who trying to cross the roundabout's feeder roads.
Over here you only need (by law) to signal when leaving the roundabout. No need to signal when entering as you can only go right then.
Here's how I understand behaviour in a basic traffic circle / roundabout that replaces an intersection:
As you enter, if you're going left you signal left, if you're going straight you don't signal, if you're going right you signal right. In all cases, you signal right as you exit.
Quote from: Jacob on July 31, 2022, 10:08:07 AMHere's how I understand behaviour in a basic traffic circle / roundabout that replaces an interasection:
As you enter, if you're going left you signal left, if you're going straight you don't signal, if you're going right you signal right. In all cases, you signal right as you exit.
Yep. Also, in the UK at least you are supposed to change this as you go around. So, if do the long circle (going right in UK, left everywhere else). You signal in the direction you are heading, as you line up with the straight ahead option you stop signalling, and you signal toward your exit when its next.
Many people don't do / forget the latter bit, so if I want to enter a roundabout but I see a car coming with the "long turn direction" indicator on and I did not see where it entered the roundabout, I do not jump out in front because there are perfectly reasonable odds they just left the indicator on and are going to leave the roundabout just as I jump out in front of them.
Yi where do you live that rounadabouts are uncommon, they've been the norm here for 15 years.
Technically in U.S. traffic engineering speak, I actually think a traffic circle is a different thing than a roundabout.
Traffic circle is often used to describe "non-conforming" roundabouts or rotaries, which don't follow general good practice on roundabout design because they are usually legacy features before they were standardized. I think Columbus Circle in NYC was a very famous example of this, but I think they modified / cleaned up the lane flow enough in the 2000s to fix the issues Columbus Circle had.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 31, 2022, 11:37:51 AMYi where do you live that rounadabouts are uncommon, they've been the norm here for 15 years.
Iowa City, Iowa.
There's one near my apartment that I can't figure out. It has two lanes and every time I go through it people honk at me. Everything on the other side of that traffic circle is now inaccessible to me. :(
Quote from: Zoupa on July 31, 2022, 01:59:01 AMThat one is pretty infamous. You just gotta impose yourself, folks are just going to have to hit the brakes.
And honk. :P
Though technically, the Arc de Triomphe does not follow the same rules as the recent roundabouts (rond-points à l'anglaise). At the Arc de Triomphe, the ones inside have to give way to those entering.
In roundabouts, it's the other way around: priority for those already inside. :D
Quote from: Zoupa on July 31, 2022, 01:59:01 AMThat one is pretty infamous. You just gotta impose yourself, folks are just going to have to hit the brakes.
Now I remember why I hated Paris. :shutup:
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 31, 2022, 07:05:05 AMOver here you only need (by law) to signal when leaving the roundabout. No need to signal when entering as you can only go right then.
Here as well. You should only signal when exiting or switching lanes inside the roundabout.
Or in other words, treat it exactly as you would any other [straight] road.
Sadly, people are so incredibly stupid that the concept of "just another road, just round" seems for some reason unfathomable.
So I will often defensibly signal inward when I'm not going to exit to tell morons I'm not leaving the lane yet.
Quote from: Iormlund on August 01, 2022, 08:54:46 AMQuote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 31, 2022, 07:05:05 AMOver here you only need (by law) to signal when leaving the roundabout. No need to signal when entering as you can only go right then.
Here as well. You should only signal when exiting or switching lanes inside the roundabout.
Or in other words, treat it exactly as you would any other [straight] road.
Sadly, people are so incredibly stupid that the concept of "just another road, just round" seems for some reason unfathomable.
So I will often defensibly signal inward when I'm not going to exit to tell morons I'm not leaving the lane yet.
:D truer words have not been spoken
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 31, 2022, 02:38:28 PMQuote from: Zoupa on July 31, 2022, 01:59:01 AMThat one is pretty infamous. You just gotta impose yourself, folks are just going to have to hit the brakes.
And honk. :P
Though technically, the Arc de Triomphe does not follow the same rules as the recent roundabouts (rond-points à l'anglaise). At the Arc de Triomphe, the ones inside have to give way to those entering.
In roundabouts, it's the other way around: priority for those already inside. :D
I shall remember that; one of my small ambitions is to fully cycle around/across it.
Quote from: mongers on August 01, 2022, 05:25:46 PMQuote from: Duque de Bragança on July 31, 2022, 02:38:28 PMQuote from: Zoupa on July 31, 2022, 01:59:01 AMThat one is pretty infamous. You just gotta impose yourself, folks are just going to have to hit the brakes.
And honk. :P
Though technically, the Arc de Triomphe does not follow the same rules as the recent roundabouts (rond-points à l'anglaise). At the Arc de Triomphe, the ones inside have to give way to those entering.
In roundabouts, it's the other way around: priority for those already inside. :D
I shall remember that; one of my small ambitions is to fully cycle around/across it.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/H%C3%B4tels_des_mar%C3%A9chaux%2C_Paris_-_OSM_2021.svg/1700px-H%C3%B4tels_des_mar%C3%A9chaux%2C_Paris_-_OSM_2021.svg.png)
In the old days, this would have been quite a feat for a cyclist.
The easy way around is using the Tilsitt and Presbourg streets, perfectly circling the Arc de Triomphe.
Or, at night in August (3 or 4 a.m when taxis can speedily take the curve for centrifuge effect). :D
I am still around (I moved but not not too far), let me know it, all right?
Thanks for the intel. Duque.
I'll certainly give you a heads up when I try it out and inflict myself on the wider Paris area. ;-)
Paris is supposed to be doing a lot lately on improving cycle infrastructure. More than London even which has gone all in lately. It does seem to be a nice cycle holiday destination in years to come.
Well. Except for the fact you'd be in Paris of course.
Quote from: mongers on August 02, 2022, 07:41:52 AMThanks for the intel. Duque.
I'll certainly give you a heads up when I try it out and inflict myself on the wider Paris area. ;-)
The current bicycle paths go through the streets I mentioned so you would have found (the hard way) sooner or later anyways.
Quote from: mongers on August 02, 2022, 07:41:52 AMThanks for the intel. Duque.
I'll certainly give you a heads up when I try it out and inflict myself on the wider Paris area. ;-)
If you go and cycle around the Arc at rush hour (the actual traffic circle, not the silly back streets), I'll come down to watch it :)
For good measure ride down the Champs Elysees afterwards, Duque and I will improvise a finish line.
Quote from: Maladict on August 02, 2022, 03:04:45 PMQuote from: mongers on August 02, 2022, 07:41:52 AMThanks for the intel. Duque.
I'll certainly give you a heads up when I try it out and inflict myself on the wider Paris area. ;-)
If you go and cycle around the Arc at rush hour (the actual traffic circle, not the silly back streets), I'll come down to watch it :)
For good measure ride down the Champs Elysees afterwards, Duque and I will improvise a finish line.
:grin: