... while campaigning in Nara. Some say he is dead.
Looks like it's confirmed that he's dead. The shooter has been detained.
Wow that's insane.
I am not sure what else to say.
Nit exactly a fan of the guy, but damn. And incredibly unusual for Japan.
Quote from: Syt on July 07, 2022, 11:08:33 PMNit exactly a fan of the guy, but damn. And incredibly unusual for Japan.
I was just telling someone that my opinion of the guy has shifted a bit in the last little while. An assertive Japan building up military capability seems a pretty good idea if it's going to be mostly pointed at China, IMO.
Apparently he's not dead, he's just unresponsive and in cardiac arrest. :hmm:
He's dead now.
The shooter was aprehended on the spot, and apparently didn't even try to run away. It's a 41 y.o. Japanese national and armed forces veteran, and he shot Abe in the back twice with a home made shotgun. Nothing is known yet about his possible motivations.
Very shocking. Japanese politics these days rarely leads to any emotions.
Really shocking.
I've no opinion or knowledge about Abe. But it's horrible for a country to have violence like this in democratic politics like this (thinking of the Jo Cox murder). Awful :(
So, what theory are we working with?
Given the gun and military background I'm leaning towards either just a lunatic or ultra nationalist upset Abe didn't restore the empire as the 2chan crowd said he would.
Though of course at this stage equally likely he's a leftist patriot who in a fit of supreme irony kills Abe for disturbing the pacifist constitution.
Given Abe giving this speech was announced just the day before it seems we might have been lucky he's the only one shot. The guy might have been planning something bigger and had explosives at home.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62089486
Highly unusual. First political assassination in Japan since the 60's when Inejiro Asanuma was stabbed with a sword. :hmm:
Highly surprising, in a very bad way indeed.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16E2F/production/_125834739_hi077241121.jpg)
The gunman shot him from behind with a homemade shotgun at very close range. Shooter is a 41 year old former naval officer. Man, Abe was comfortably elected PM three times and the only reason he was not in power was because of his health problems. I can't even name the current PM of Japan to save my own life.
Odd to see everyone masked.
Except for the the gunman who has rebelliously left his nose exposed. :hmm:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 08, 2022, 05:03:35 PMOdd to see everyone masked.
AFAIK people keep masking relentlessly
in Japan despite it not being mandatory anymore.
Didn't people in Japan fairly regularly mask up before covid?
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 08, 2022, 05:18:34 PMDidn't people in Japan fairly regularly mask up before covid?
Yup. According to some westerners that live there that I follow the levels of societal pressure to keep masking are enormous. The whole country is still quite paranoid about Covid even at this point.
And in Japan you generally mask up if you have the sniffles as a matter of course. So it's probably not seen as some sort of massive social imposition to wear a mask during a pandemic.
That looks like a peaceful situation, all things considered. "Sir, sir, yes you, wait up, I think you just shot someone over there!"
So the assassin killed Abe because he hated some organization he thought Abe was a member of? Is this some kind of anti-Masonic Qanon type paranoid shit?
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2022, 06:19:17 PMSo the assassin killed Abe because he hated some organization he thought Abe was a member of? Is this some kind of anti-Masonic Qanon type paranoid shit?
Which organization?
The Japanese police didn't specify - so possibly not a super helpful briefing.
I don't think there'll be many mourners in Korea or China.
Quote from: Zoupa on July 08, 2022, 07:11:04 PMI don't think there'll be many mourners in Korea or China.
Chinese social media was full of gloating the moment the news broke.
That said, my opinion on Japan and China and WWII has done close to a full 180 in the last years.
What do you mean?
Quote from: Zoupa on July 08, 2022, 07:13:59 PMWhat do you mean?
My primary lense used to be "those jerk Japanese are taking insufficient responsibility for the atrocities they committed during WWII (and before), failing to be sincere in their apologies, and that is very concerning."
But by now I've seen enough of how the Chinese government stokes anti-Japanese fervour to stoke the fires of chauvenist nationalism in the Han population to be convinced that no amount of Japanese contrition would change a single thing. Anger at Japan is simply too convenient a tool for the CCP regime at this point and has been for decades independently of the line coming out of Japan.
As an aside, it also chafes a bit how the CCP takes all the credit for the sacrifices and battles from the Nationalists who did the bulk of the actual fighting as they build their mythology.
At the same time, China is a totalitarian imperialist power ruling over conquered territories and trying to ethnically assimilate them gradually (Tibet, Mongolia) or via what's essentially genocide (Xinjiang) right now, in the present day.
Then, of course, there's the fact that China is actively bullying all its neighbours using its military and economic power to assert frankly ridiculous claims.
Additionally it seems likely to me that China will start a major war in the next decade to conquer and destroy a Democratic country based on what is purely imperialist ethnic nationalist rhetoric.
There's also the bit that between various CCP bullshit the party is probably in striking range of Imperial Japan for the murder of and atrocities committed against Chinese people.
So given all of that I'm keen on seeing Japan solidly in the camp of Democracies standing up to China and drawing a line. And bad things that happened one hundred to eighty years ago terrible though they might be - and the layers of mythology and propaganda built on top of that - matters significantly less today in my eyes.
:)
We can still think Japan is being a dick to Korea and the other non Chinese countries in the Region though, right?
Quote from: HVC on July 08, 2022, 08:32:14 PMWe can still think Japan is being a dick to Korea and the other non Chinese countries in the Region though, right?
You can think whatever you want, HVC. I'm simply explaining how my view of Chinese-Japanese relations have changed over time.
Thanks, then I'll keep believing Japan treatment of its history is problematic.
Quote from: HVC on July 08, 2022, 08:59:33 PMThanks, then I'll keep believing Japan treatment of its history is problematic.
Nowhere did Jacob say that wasn't true so why did something he said require you to stop believing that?
Quote from: HVC on July 08, 2022, 08:59:33 PMThanks, then I'll keep believing Japan treatment of its history is problematic.
It totally is, agreed.
Personally I just rate the level of that significantly below the level of what China's engaged in the present day.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 08, 2022, 05:18:34 PMDidn't people in Japan fairly regularly mask up before covid?
In Korea plenty of people would mask up every winter, but I don't recall seeing it during other seasons.
What rankles is that Japan is a modern democracy. I hold it to a higher standard than China.
Quote from: Zoupa on July 08, 2022, 09:20:00 PMWhat rankles is that Japan is a modern democracy. I hold it to a higher standard than China.
Fair. But how low a standard do you hold China?
I expect nothing from China yet I'm still disappointed.
Quote from: Zoupa on July 08, 2022, 09:20:00 PMWhat rankles is that Japan is a modern democracy. I hold it to a higher standard than China.
It totally rankles and Japan can do better.
But weighed against China, it is trivial. China is already engaging in crimes against humanity and atrocities on a massive scale. And, like I said, I expect they're going to kick off a major war before my children are adults.
Meanwhile, in China a well known pop song "Too Bad It's Not You" has been removed from the internet.
Roflol, the communists are very light on legitimacy it seems.
Quote from: Jacob on July 08, 2022, 08:56:57 PMQuote from: HVC on July 08, 2022, 08:32:14 PMWe can still think Japan is being a dick to Korea and the other non Chinese countries in the Region though, right?
You can think whatever you want, HVC. I'm simply explaining how my view of Chinese-Japanese relations have changed over time.
I think you've made a good case why PRC complaints can fairly be viewed as hypocritical. But not a case that gets Japan entirely off the hook. My view is that Abe's legit case for Japanese normalization was undercut by his less than enlightened attitude towards the ugly past.
Yeah I agree - and while I know nothing about this - my sense is it was all part of a piece for Abe.
Japan's issues with its history though existing as they are anywhere in the world, are grossly overstated online.
Eg. Yasukuni. Though you'll read so all the time, what's going on there isn't the "omfg war criminal worshipping shrine. Imagine a shrine to the ss in Germany! And all Japan's leaders worship the war criminals! "
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2022, 12:37:47 PMI think you've made a good case why PRC complaints can fairly be viewed as hypocritical. But not a case that gets Japan entirely off the hook. My view is that Abe's legit case for Japanese normalization was undercut by his less than enlightened attitude towards the ugly past.
No argument from me on that. I do not wish to let Japan entirely off the hook.
The murderer has confessed. Apparently he blamed Abe for supporting a church that he blamed for his family's economic ruin.
Edit: turns out the church could be the Moonies.
Well... That had to be pretty low ranked on the list of theories.
Ah the Moonies. What a bunch of nutters. Was Abe really connected with them in some way?
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2022, 07:01:43 PMAh the Moonies. What a bunch of nutters. Was Abe really connected with them in some way?
Apparently his maternal grandfather Nobusuke Kishi, who was Japan's PM in the late 50s (and prior to that a class A war criminal because of his role in the exploitation of Manchuria during WWII :ph34r: ) did help the Moonies set up shop in Japan, as they were seen as useful anti-communist allies. Since then the Moonies and the LDP (Abe's party) have had some kind of alliance.
Abe himself participated in some of the Moonies's events, together with other important politicians (like Trump).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXLdiqraMAExwh8.jpg)
Yeah the Moonies are big gun nuts and Trump supporters in the US. Granted that in itself doesn't exactly distinguish them among US religious groups.
Huh. Well I'll be damned.
Well see Zoupa? There will be at least a few Korean mourners.
Some info about Abe and the Moonies, this time written by a proper journalist.
QuoteShinzo Abe shooting: who are the 'Moonies' and why are they in the spotlight?
Suspect Tetsuya Yamagami blames the Unification church, also known as the Moonies, for bankrupting his family
The apparent motive given by the man accused of assassinating Shinzo Abe has cast a spotlight on the Unification church and its ties to politicians.
Tetsuya Yamagami has confessed to killing the former Japanese prime minister during a campaign speech on Friday. He blamed the global religious movement – whose members are often referred to as Moonies – for bankrupting his family, and believed that Abe had championed its activities in Japan.
The Japan branch of the church has confirmed that Yamagami's mother is a member, but declined to comment on the suspect's claims that she had made a "huge donation" more than 20 years ago that left the family struggling financially.
The branch's president, Tomihiro Tanaka, told a press conference that Yamagami's mother became a follower in the late 1990s, adding that the family had suffered financial ruin around 2002.
The organisation's official name is the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification, although it is better known as the Unification church. It was founded in South Korea in 1954 by Sun Myung Moon, whose strident anti-communism would lead him to build ties with conservative politicians around the world, including in Japan.
(...)
Its connection to Japan is inseparable from the instability of the postwar years, when conservative politicians sought to build alliances that they believed would prevent the country from embracing communism.
They included Abe's grandfather, Nobusuke Kishi, who reportedly set up an organisation with ties to the church. It was Kishi's decision to court Moon and his followers in Japan that reportedly drove Yamagami to target his grandson.
Yamagami reportedly told investigators that he had fired a shot from a homemade gun at a Unification church facility near his home the day before he targeted Abe. The Asahi Shimbun quoted residents as saying they had heard a loud bang in the early hours of 7 July.
The Japan chapter was founded in 1959 – the penultimate year of Kishi's three-year term as prime minister – as the church sent missionaries to Japan and the US to forge links with influential politicians and business leaders.
Last September Abe delivered a congratulatory address via video link at an event organised by an affiliate, the Universal Peace Federation. Donald Trump is among other conservative politicians who have publicly associated themselves with the church.
Abe had been criticised for speaking at events organised by church affiliates. Last year lawyers representing people who say they lost money because of the church filed a letter of protest after he delivered the video message. They also protested when Abe sent a telegram to a mass wedding in 2006.
Moon, who moved to the US in the early 1970s, had longstanding ties to Japan, having studied engineering at a high school in Tokyo. He was indicted on tax evasion charges in the US in 1981 and served 11 months in prison.
In 2008, Moon passed control of the church to his youngest son, Hyung Jin Moon, who later formed a breakaway organisation, the Sanctuary church, after falling out with his mother, Hak Ja Han. She now controls the Unification church.
The police have not publicly identified the group Yamagami blamed for his family's financial troubles, and most Japanese media organisations refrained from naming it until Monday's press conference.
If only there was a lesson here about not giving away all your money.
Apparently last letter from the killer to a journalist has been released.
QuoteXX, long time no see.
How long has it been since I left a comment on the blog under the name of 'not yet enough'?
I wrote, 'I need a gun so much', but since that day, I've spent all my energy and money trying to get a gun.
It's like a member of the Unification Church who gave up his life for a fake savior.
The directions are opposite, but these days, I think I am very similar to them.
The relationship between me and the Unification Church goes back about 30 years.
Since my mother joined the Unification Church, my mother has been wasting more than a million dollars, and the family's prosperity and bankruptcy...
In the process, my teenage years passed. It is no exaggeration to say that the experiences I have experienced have endlessly distorted my life.
Adolescence is a time when individuals are making their own character and life.
For me it is...
A lie that parents can spit out because they don't care about their children and their families.
Confident evil deeds with no way to stop it.
So the never-ending conflict, the destruction that lies ahead.
He(former head of the Unification Church) considers all the money and women in the world to be his natural possessions.
A self-proclaimed god who does not choose any means and methods to make it a reality.
Such a human being, and a group that worships such a person as a god in reality, the society in which it exists...
I wrote them as 'the shame of mankind', but I still have that thought.
I don't like Abe, but he's not a real enemy.
In any case, he is just one of the most influential supporters and adherents of the Unification Church in the real world.
I want to kill all of the Moon clan (the head of the Unification Church), but I know it's impossible for me.
The division of the Unification Church organization is not something that happens all at once.
Hak Ja Han (current head of the Unification Church), If it was difficult, I was going to at least kill one of the Moon's blood relatives.
but, When Hak Ja Han and her daughter die, the 3rd and 7th sons are happy, Or the Unification Church will be reunited. Neither one serves my purpose.
The political implications and consequences of Abe's death...
I can't afford to think about it anymore.
Original-
https://twitter.com/soulflowerunion/status/1548629547176042496
Yeah, account of a minor rock band, weird. So take it with a pinch of salt for now- but this is just the link I was given, not its first showing I believe.
Also on twitter the killer's account was discovered and analysed before being banned.
Some notable stuff-
https://twitter.com/watergate213617/status/1548639686918213637
Seems he really was a fellow-traveller of Abe politically. Far right anti-Korean,anti-Chinese, anti-left wing, nationalist nutcase. Then at some point he saw a twitter post with Abe supporting the moonies and snapped.
So. Twitter to blame?
Once again it's just a nutjob. Just like the UNA bomber and many others he has nothing to say. Just insane ravings.
Abe's connection to the Moon cult is not based on some rando tweet, as I understand it, but a real and long-lasting alliance lasting generations. The Moonies were supported in coming to Japan by Abe's father (IIRC), and his mother is a member.
Quote from: Jacob on July 18, 2022, 04:30:10 PMAbe's connection to the Moon cult is not based on some rando tweet, as I understand it, but a real and long-lasting alliance lasting generations. The Moonies were supported in coming to Japan by Abe's father (IIRC), and his mother is a member.
I mean thats when it seems this guy cottoned onto it and previously loved Abe.
Quote from: Josquius on July 18, 2022, 04:35:44 PMI mean thats when it seems this guy cottoned onto it and previously loved Abe.
Oh I see. Yeah maybe.
in so far it matter: maybe the thread title should be changed as Abe was most definately shot
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 21, 2022, 03:25:42 PMin so far it matter: maybe the thread title should be changed as Abe was most definately shot
Sure and done.
If you are going to update it, why leave the suggestion he might still be alive? :P
It takes two asses to assassinate.