What event in your life is the one that you think of when you separate "old enough to remember" people from "too young to remember?" That gap between those who understand the importance of the event and those who just never really will, because to them it's "before my time."
For me, it's the moon landing. I was just a kid back then, but I remember the excitement/ disappointment/ excitement of the late space race and the satisfaction when the US finally beat the USSR to the moon. I think that you had to be there.
For me most likely the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the subsequent end of the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union.
Though with new colleagues aged 23-ish entering the workplace 9/11 and life before the internet/smartphones is quickly becoming another watershed.
For me it's 9/11. I think it's just impossible to understand how it changed the country, as well as to comprehend the collective trauma, without living through it at a mature enough age.
The Challenger explosion, probably. If just looking for the youngest, significant event.
Berlin Wall for me, and to a lesser extent Challenger and Chernobyl.
Quote from: Syt on July 05, 2022, 10:42:50 PMFor me most likely the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the subsequent end of the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union.
Though with new colleagues aged 23-ish entering the workplace 9/11 and life before the internet/smartphones is quickly becoming another watershed.
I agree with both. I was only 9 when the Iron Curtain fell but I can recall noticing something important going on, and the air of anticipation.
Quote from: Tamas on July 06, 2022, 03:07:20 AMI agree with both. I was only 9 when the Iron Curtain fell but I can recall noticing something important going on, and the air of anticipation.
Growing up as interested in news, and with movies like The Day After, and reading in school books like The Last Children of Schewenborn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Children_of_Schewenborn), plus having US soldiers who guarded nuclear artillery munitions at the local base (and peace protests against them in the early 80s) ... so end of Cold War was pretty big at the time, even though I was only 13. :)
Not an event - but not having the internet when you were a kid. I think we got it the late 90s but I was already 10+ then and friends have similar memories of being kids without the internet and without a mobile phone.
I think for people just a few years younger, it's a different world.
I was 21 or so when I got internet, so it was a huge change (and, in the 90s, also huge phone bills :bleeding: ).
The arrival of the internet and cellphones first and smartphones afterwards is definitely a watershed moment for my generation that is commonly shared across the West. Being the last generation that grew up without the pervasive presence of technology around us is definitely something noteworthy.
As for historical events, something that was before my time but only for a few years and I believe can't be comprehended if you didn't live through it would be the death of Franco and the transition to democracy in Spain. My generation was the first one that was raised in complete liberty in Spain for ages, and depending on how you define and value certain liberties, maybe the first one ever.
There has been so much change, it is hard to choose one. For me the wall coming down is the most significant one. For a lot of young people, I have to explain what wall I am talking about and why it was significant. I was in Berlin that August and it is hard to explain just how dreary East Berlin was. It is also hard to explain how dynamic Budapest was that summer, right in the cusp of throwing off communist rule.
It's a bright line between people old enough to have experienced it and those too young to know what I am talking about.
Hah, I remember phone lines for residential homes arriving to our village, let alone the Internet. :lol: Now the village is in all but name a suburb with a tiny industrial district as well.
But this reminds me that my parents' generation has seen multiple big shifts. My dad went from riding on horse carts to his family's fields to building his own radio to becoming a satellite TV nerd and now being fairly comfortable with basic internet functions. He won't use a touchscreen smartphone, though. :P
I don't remember the moon landing itself, I was 3 in 69, but I remember a year later, in 1970, for some reason the astronauts who landed on the moon did a fly by in a helicopter over our school. I remember we were given Maltese flags and we all stood at the open windows (today, this would be deemed incredibly unsafe) and waved our flags as they flew by.
edit: So, yeah, according to this: https://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2021-12-07/newspaper-lifestyleculture/We-went-to-the-moon-6736238908#:~:text=Those%20astronauts%2C%20Neil%20Armstrong%2C%20Buzz,their%20return%20from%20the%20Moon.
Those astronauts, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins, carried a small Maltese flag with them to the Moon and back. And the Apollo 13 astronauts famously visited Malta in 1970 after their return from the Moon
The Fall of the Berlin Wall would be a big one. It changed the world. I kind of feel like the Challenger exploding would be another. Between the build up to the launch and the gradual end of manned space flights I think it also was a defining moment.
On a big picture scale, it is 9/11.
On a more local scale, the 1998 ice storm.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 06, 2022, 09:09:26 AMOn a more local scale, the 1998 ice storm.
Hah, in Hungary that's the winter of 1986. 6 years old me remembers ALL THE SNOW, it's a generational thing definitely, especially since younger generations are quite unlikely to see anything of the sort of heavy and persistent snow in Hungary.
Also, Euro '88 of course :sleep:
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 06, 2022, 09:09:26 AMOn a big picture scale, it is 9/11.
On a more local scale, the 1998 ice storm.
We had a big winter snow with a few days off school about then too. I think it's a good one as just doesn't happen now.
Fall of the Berlin Wall. I am almost of the same age as Syt, so no coincidence.
Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2022, 05:28:33 AMAs for historical events, something that was before my time but only for a few years and I believe can't be comprehended if you didn't live through it would be the death of Franco
Just as amazing is that all these years later, he is still dead.
As to the question, about a year ago I could have said inflation. Alas.
Yeah, like many others I think it's the fall of the Berlin Wall. There's definitely also something to pre- and post- internet and pre- and post- widespread mobile phones, even if they're less discrete events.
I also think there's a significant shift with the death of the last of the WWII generation. I feel like my generation (and earlier) have a very different relationship to WWII than the ones after - even though obviously we didn't live through the war.
Quote from: Syt on July 05, 2022, 10:42:50 PMFor me most likely the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the subsequent end of the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union.
This
Okay, so the most obvious answers are indeed fall of the Berlin wall, with pre-internet days also a good choice.
But just to give a more Canadian example... the Wayne Gretzky trade. The best player of all time, at the height of his powers - being traded to LA.
I mean nowadays what with free agency we see lots of player movement so it's no longer shocking but back then it was stunning.
I was 7 when the USSR collapsed. I vaguely recall knowing something was happening (tv news and such) but not really understanding what was going on, so I don't really count that.
For me it'd be 911. I remember listening to the Howard Stern show while it was happening then going to school. My first class was modern western civilization where we just watched tv news quietly.
Moon landing here. I was 3, and apparently I was watching the TV along with the family, but even though I remember more important things from that time (my brother stealing my ice cream, the garbage truck getting a flat tire outside our house), I don't remember that.
The Fall of Saigon, aged 11 I can remember running home to catch the news of it's fall, I knew at the time this was history happening. Plus it marked the definitive end of the Vietnam war which had unfolded every more bloodily throughout my childhood.
Before that I recall the Yom Kippur war and especially the Kissinger's shuttle diplomacy as it was so extensively covered.
I don't recall the Apollo 11 moon landing, might not have even seen it as it was so late here, but the year after I was captivated by the Apollo 13 drama as it happened, guess being 6 1/2 years old helped.
This video is a great watch on time our perceptions thereof. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHL9GP_B30E&t=1544s)
Quote from: mongers on July 06, 2022, 02:27:56 PMThe Fall of Saigon, aged 11 I can remember running home to catch the news of it's fall, I knew at the time this was history happening. Plus it marked the definitive end of the Vietnam war which had unfolded every more bloodily throughout my childhood.
Before that I recall the Yom Kippur war and especially the Kissinger's shuttle diplomacy as it was so extensively covered.
I don't recall the Apollo 11 moon landing, might not have even seen it as it was so late here, but the year after I was captivated by the Apollo 13 drama as it happened, guess being 6 1/2 years old helped.
Interesting. I don't remember any of those things - the end of war in Vietnam, or war there at all; the only thing I remember about the missions to the Moon is the first landing, and I did not know about the Yom Kippur war until I learned about it much later on.
I remember inflation, the oil spike (mainly my father waiting in long lines at a gas station), and my dad making derogatory comments about all those damn hippies.
I remember distinctly reading about the North Vietnamese invasion in the US military newspaper, The Stars and Stripes. Every day there was a big half page map marked with which provincial capitals had fallen and which were being attacked. But I don't remember watching the fall of Saigon on the TV. That might be a function of Armed Forces Television not wanting to show it. Or maybe I just missed it.
The time I banged your mom while your dad was out of town...you were too young to remember because you weren't born for another 9 months.
1989, but for some reason the Berlin wall didn't catch my 11 year old eye, while I clearly remember Ceausescu's fall, Timisoara and Tiananmen Square fascinating me.
Bizarrely, even if I was already at an age to be aware of stuff, the fall of the Berlin Wall (I was 10) and the collapse of Communism (I was 12) didn't really register that much for me. I mean, I could feel the adults in the room being very eager for more news and the vague feeling of "this must be something important", but the precise importance was not really something I felt at the moment. Maybe because the Cold War feeling was not that relevant in Spain in comparison with other countries?
If I'm being brutally honest, we're getting there with 9/11. This is the year we're going to start seeing people born after 9/11 showing up in bars.
It does seem that the "you had to be there" effect is a little softened since the Internet picked up steam and we really started religiously recording everything, so I'd say the last major events that really fit the bill for me are the Atlanta Olympics bombing and the Bosnia conflict in the late '90s where you're less likely to find real-time reactions floating around YouTube or other video-sharing sites.
Quote from: The Larch on July 07, 2022, 04:42:15 AMBizarrely, even if I was already at an age to be aware of stuff, the fall of the Berlin Wall (I was 10) and the collapse of Communism (I was 12) didn't really register that much for me. I mean, I could feel the adults in the room being very eager for more news and the vague feeling of "this must be something important", but the precise importance was not really something I felt at the moment. Maybe because the Cold War feeling was not that relevant in Spain in comparison with other countries?
Yeah the fear and paranoia of nuclear war and Communist infiltration and all that was very much still a thing in the 1980s in the United States and especially as a kid they seemed very formidable and terrifying. After all the USSR looked much bigger than the USA on a map! Oh nos! And then somehow just like that they were gone, seemingly overnight (I mean not really the USSR lasted until 1992 or something but once the Wall came down they were clearly no longer the big threat they were. You actually kind of started to feel sorry for them). Then the halcyon days of 1989-1999 began. What a great decade to be an American.
But more to the point I thought the USSR vs USA thing was going to last well into this century. The idea that the whole thing was about to end was far far from my mind. Nothing has ever really shook my world to the same extent sense. I think those events are now so uninteresting and just taken for granted by all born since 1989 that it makes it hard to convey what a big deal it was.
Still wish I had visited Russia during that period, and I could have easily. I spent a long time in Europe in the 1990s. A chance I am unlikely to ever have again. But how was I to know?
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 07, 2022, 07:18:19 AMIf I'm being brutally honest, we're getting there with 9/11. This is the year we're going to start seeing people born after 9/11 showing up in bars.
It does seem that the "you had to be there" effect is a little softened since the Internet picked up steam and we really started religiously recording everything, so I'd say the last major events that really fit the bill for me are the Atlanta Olympics bombing and the Bosnia conflict in the late '90s where you're less likely to find real-time reactions floating around YouTube or other video-sharing sites.
I think the main effect on post 9/11 generations is that for them, the intrusion on personal liberty in the name of safety are normal.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 07, 2022, 09:05:48 AMI think the main effect on post 9/11 generations is that for them, the intrusion on personal liberty in the name of safety are normal.
Yeah. Or that at one point a figure skating controversy or a football player killing his wife were years long national obsessions, that we had that little of actual concern to fret about.
Now everything seems like an existential threat and the fact that multiple governments and private entities have more information on you than you do yourself is taken for granted. Thanks Osama.
I fear that history would view 9/11 as one of the terrorist acts that utterly succeeded in their goals, just like Rabin's assassination.
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2022, 09:10:42 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on July 07, 2022, 09:05:48 AMI think the main effect on post 9/11 generations is that for them, the intrusion on personal liberty in the name of safety are normal.
Yeah. Or that at one point a figure skating controversy or a football player killing his wife were years long national obsessions, that we had that little of actual concern to fret about.
Now everything seems like an existential threat and the fact that multiple governments and private entities have more information on you than you do yourself is taken for granted. Thanks Osama.
But it is a function of media rather than reality. The world has become a lot safer, there is less war, violence, extreme poverty etc. than the 80s and 90s.
Quote from: DGuller on July 07, 2022, 09:27:45 AMI fear that history would view 9/11 as one of the terrorist acts that utterly succeeded in their goals, just like Rabin's assassination.
Yeah, that's it exactly.
Quote from: DGuller on July 07, 2022, 09:27:45 AMI fear that history would view 9/11 as one of the terrorist acts that utterly succeeded in their goals, just like Rabin's assassination.
I think that's a given at this point and - as you say - Rabin's assassination is another one. I'm surprised we're not seeing more attempts, to be honest.
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2022, 08:56:54 AMQuote from: The Larch on July 07, 2022, 04:42:15 AMBizarrely, even if I was already at an age to be aware of stuff, the fall of the Berlin Wall (I was 10) and the collapse of Communism (I was 12) didn't really register that much for me. I mean, I could feel the adults in the room being very eager for more news and the vague feeling of "this must be something important", but the precise importance was not really something I felt at the moment. Maybe because the Cold War feeling was not that relevant in Spain in comparison with other countries?
Yeah the fear and paranoia of nuclear war and Communist infiltration and all that was very much still a thing in the 1980s in the United States and especially as a kid they seemed very formidable and terrifying. After all the USSR looked much bigger than the USA on a map! Oh nos! And then somehow just like that they were gone, seemingly overnight (I mean not really the USSR lasted until 1992 or something but once the Wall came down they were clearly no longer the big threat they were. You actually kind of started to feel sorry for them). Then the halcyon days of 1989-1999 began. What a great decade to be an American.
But more to the point I thought the USSR vs USA thing was going to last well into this century. The idea that the whole thing was about to end was far far from my mind. Nothing has ever really shook my world to the same extent sense. I think those events are now so uninteresting and just taken for granted by all born since 1989 that it makes it hard to convey what a big deal it was.
Not just the US, though France being a nuclear power was a wild card and had an official strategy of using tactical nukes if West Germany were to be invaded (made for a hell of a British movie called Threads)
I do remember old farts (Bigeard?)/paranoid people worrying about the Red Army being "3 days away of Strasbourg". In the second half of the '80s this was seen as ridiculous by most people, mind you.
Topic came back recently in a discussion about the performance of the Russian Army in Ukraine.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 07, 2022, 09:44:04 AMQuote from: Valmy on July 07, 2022, 09:10:42 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on July 07, 2022, 09:05:48 AMI think the main effect on post 9/11 generations is that for them, the intrusion on personal liberty in the name of safety are normal.
Yeah. Or that at one point a figure skating controversy or a football player killing his wife were years long national obsessions, that we had that little of actual concern to fret about.
Now everything seems like an existential threat and the fact that multiple governments and private entities have more information on you than you do yourself is taken for granted. Thanks Osama.
But it is a function of media rather than reality. The world has become a lot safer, there is less war, violence, extreme poverty etc. than the 80s and 90s.
Absolutely, but I am very specifically talking about the US.