Poll
Question:
Which nation offers the best food?
Option 1: China
votes: 1
Option 2: France
votes: 3
Option 3: Greece
votes: 1
Option 4: India
votes: 3
Option 5: Itay
votes: 12
Option 6: Japan
votes: 0
Option 7: Mexico
votes: 1
Option 8: Spain
votes: 1
Option 9: Thailand
votes: 0
Option 10: Other (name it)
votes: 1
Option 11: USA (Jaron option)
votes: 2
Let's settle the question once and for all.
After my trip to Italy, I think I'll have to concede the issue. The food there is absolutely ridiculously good.
Gotta agree, Italy >>> Spain. Seems all you guys eat is jamon, jamon, jamon.
I don't even necessarily like Italians... but this seems like the only useful poll would be to determine the world's second-best cuisine.
Oh - USA doesn't deserve to be a Jaron option - it's a valid contender.
Other, Southern Croatian - a fusion a Italian, French and Balkan cooking - it is absolutely fabulous.
If I had to pick a region that is well known to the rest of the world, it would be Italian.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 10:36:04 AMI don't even necessarily like Italians... but this seems like the only useful poll would be to determine the world's second-best cuisine.
Oh - USA doesn't deserve to be a Jaron option - it's a valid contender.
It's a half-joke (but only half :P ). People can vote away if they believe is a contender.
I had some good stuff while living in the US - I love southern cuisine - but a lot of it is very heavy. Also the quality of the fresh produce in my experience was average at best compared to what you can buy in Europe, even in farmers' markets. Otoh meat/dairy was great, if you bought from good providers.
When I was there the whole organic thing was just taking off, so maybe you can find better produce now.
This is hardly a contest.
Quote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 10:47:13 AMQuote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 10:36:04 AMI don't even necessarily like Italians... but this seems like the only useful poll would be to determine the world's second-best cuisine.
Oh - USA doesn't deserve to be a Jaron option - it's a valid contender.
It's a half-joke (but only half :P ). People can vote away if they believe is a contender.
I had some good stuff while living in the US - I love southern cuisine - but a lot of it is very heavy. Also the quality of the fresh produce in my experience was average at best compared to what you can buy in Europe, even in farmers' markets. Otoh meat/dairy was great, if you bought from good providers.
When I was there the whole organic thing was just taking off, so maybe you can find better produce now.
It's such a huge country, like China or India. Obviously there's a lot of shit food from the USA, but some amazing stuff as well.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 10:52:53 AMQuote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 10:47:13 AMQuote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 10:36:04 AMI don't even necessarily like Italians... but this seems like the only useful poll would be to determine the world's second-best cuisine.
Oh - USA doesn't deserve to be a Jaron option - it's a valid contender.
It's a half-joke (but only half :P ). People can vote away if they believe is a contender.
I had some good stuff while living in the US - I love southern cuisine - but a lot of it is very heavy. Also the quality of the fresh produce in my experience was average at best compared to what you can buy in Europe, even in farmers' markets. Otoh meat/dairy was great, if you bought from good providers.
When I was there the whole organic thing was just taking off, so maybe you can find better produce now.
It's such a huge country, like China or India. Obviously there's a lot of shit food from the USA, but some amazing stuff as well.
Yeah, they have some great Italian restaurants :P
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2022, 10:36:58 AMOther, Southern Croatian - a fusion a Italian, French and Balkan cooking - it is absolutely fabulous.
If I had to pick a region that is well known to the rest of the world, it would be Italian.
You made me look up Croatian restaurants in Barcelona, and there's a guy that seems to do Spanish-French-Balkan fusion. I'll add it to my list!
Difficult choice, between having had food in the country itself, having had it in places where you can sample the amazing variety (i.e., Chinese restaurants in LA), and only having sampled it outside of its country of origin...
Itay or Ndia.
Quote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 11:05:01 AMYou made me look up Croatian restaurants in Barcelona, and there's a guy that seems to do Spanish-French-Balkan fusion. I'll add it to my list!
When I was in university, the U of Manitoba was in a deeply suburban part of town, so there wasn't really a lot of bars / restaurants nearby. More than a comfortable walk, but still kind of walkable, was a Bosnian restaurant. It's my only experience with balkan food to date. I don't remember if it was called a bosnian burger on the menu, or my fraternity buddies just called it that, but it was interesting and good. It was served on something mid-ways between a burger bun and a pita.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 10:52:53 AMIt's such a huge country, like China or India. Obviously there's a lot of shit food from the USA, but some amazing stuff as well.
It's a huge country, and you can have great food, but nowhere need the variety of Chinese or Indian food.
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 04, 2022, 11:24:33 AMDifficult choice, between having had food in the country itself, having had it in places where you can sample the amazing variety (i.e., Chinese restaurants in LA), and only having sampled it outside of its country of origin...
Itay or Ndia.
You know this is a fair point. Italian food would have been a top contender in any event, but what easily puts it over the top for me is having Italian food in Italy.
But then again of the countries listed, the only other one I've been to was Mexico (and I only had shitty resort food, 90% of which wasn't even remotely Mexican-inspired). Oh and I guess US, which again has a bunch of shitty food but some really good food too.
Of countries I've been to Thailand or Mexico - thinking about it I'd probably go for Mexico.
I feel like the answer is India or China but I've not been to either country so I feel limited in being able to say that. But it's a little unfair because they're both basically sub-continents.
In Europe the answer is Italy.
Also France makes me wonder a little how you judge - because while the good stuff is very, very good indeed the standard of just an bang average restaurant that you've not researched, in my experience, is not good at all. While in Italy, Spain, Greece the bog standard is a lot higher. So France might have a higher ceiling than some, but I feel like it's got a lower floor (and probably lower average). And if it's the ceiling we're judging - again I've not been - but I think it might be Japan from what I've heard.
Champions League -
Italy
China (assuming we mean Chinese cuisine rather than food from the prc)
India
Solid Premier League -
Japan
Thailand
The UK is in the championship, as is Greece and Spain.
I haven't had enough Mexican to really say but they're probably there too. The US probably also since we already discounted quality of the modern nations supply chains.
I think Italian, Thai, Vietnamese, and Japanese food is my top tier.
I love food... so all of 'em :wub:
What is it that make a cuisine "the best in the world"?
Refined cooking techniques, quality of ingredients, innovation? Depth of history?
And is it about the very best restaurants and chefs of that cuisine? The average quality of cooking in local homes? The level of quality in randomly selected restaurants in that country? Or about how well that nation's food is represented in other countries? About winning "best restaurant in the world"?
Or is it about how much you (we) personally like the core ingredients of that nation's cuisine?
Basically I'm just asking those questions because I can never make up my mind when picking "bests" for these questions :lol:
Personally I've really been enjoying New Nordic cuisine in recent years also, in addition to what's on the list.
Some other random comments:
One thing Japan does really well is that it's hard to go wrong. Pick a random restaurant or food stall in Japan, in a random region and it's likely to be good.
I think French food is under rated a bit these days simply because it's been top tier haute cuisine for so long people have become bored of it. But the techniques and approach of Nouvelle Cuisine have filtered out and informed beyond the bounds of the national cuisine.
Quote from: Zanza on July 04, 2022, 12:10:55 PMI think Italian, Thai, Vietnamese, and Japanese food is my top tier.
I think I may have mentioned this anecdote before, but still...
I went to law school in the late 90s. I got a summer job after 1st year working for a young-ish sole practitioner Vietnamese-Canadian lawyer who had recently gone out on his own. His work was 75% residential real estate, 25% doing whatever for Vietnamese clients (he might have been the only Vietnamese-speaking lawyer in Winnipeg at the time).
A few times he took me out for lunch - always to one of his client's restaurants. Back then Vietnamese cuisine was pretty unknown outside of the immigrant community (at least in Winnipeg). I'd never had it before, the meals were pretty unknown to me - but very very good.
It's just amazing to me how in 25 years (which I guess is not a small amount of time) Vietnamese cuisine can go from being unknown to being so incredibly popular.
I do wonder what nation's cuisine is going to be next (and not that Vietnamese is the most recent - probably Korean went big more recently, if not others).
Quote from: Jacob on July 04, 2022, 12:25:24 PM:
One thing Japan does really well is that it's hard to go wrong. Pick a random restaurant or food stall in Japan, in a random region and it's likely to be good.
Washoku.
Seriously, fuck plain cold rice. And what the hell is the point of konjac.
Quote from: Jacob on July 04, 2022, 12:25:24 PMI think French food is under rated a bit these days simply because it's been top tier haute cuisine for so long people have become bored of it. But the techniques and approach of Nouvelle Cuisine have filtered out and informed beyond the bounds of the national cuisine.
Yeah I think Japan and France - for me, where I live and fancy restaurants I've eaten at - have the highest impact.
QuoteOne thing Japan does really well is that it's hard to go wrong. Pick a random restaurant or food stall in Japan, in a random region and it's likely to be good.
I really want to go but I also really love the idea of the guy who has absolutely perfected one thing - so just does that one thing really really well which, from what I understand, is big in Japan.
QuoteI do wonder what nation's cuisine is going to be next (and not that Vietnamese is the most recent - probably Korean went big more recently, if not others).
I think the breakthrough in London at the minute is probably West African. Nigerian and Ghanian places especially have been around for years as restaurants and food places that are basically relatively low-key, pretty cheap and for the diaspora community and local fans - but there's now a fair few that have opened that are very haute cuisine places. I desperately want to go here: https://ikoyilondon.com/ but it is very expensive (and it's very London/British food scene of fashionable combos right now - Nordic style foraging and "micro-seasonality"/local produce, big Japanese influence and West African flavours). There's a few other amazing looking restauurants like that I have my eye on (for when I win the lottery :weep:).
I think the next step is probably mass market, democratised, everyone gets to try it and restaurants pop up all over the place. I feel like that's the route Vietnamese, Korean and Thai took.
Edit: Also in terms of change - again I only really know London - but Sri Lankan and Burmese food have both had really popular mini-chains planting the flag over town. I suspect that'll spread.
Quote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 10:26:28 AMLet's settle the question once and for all.
After my trip to Italy, I think I'll have to concede the issue. The food there is absolutely ridiculously good.
Yup, the bastards know what they're doing. And it's far more varied that its stereotypical representation. It's not just pasta and pizza.
An Italian bakery recently opened near my home. Its... :mmm:
Quote from: Zoupa on July 04, 2022, 10:29:38 AMGotta agree, Italy >>> Spain. Seems all you guys eat is jamon, jamon, jamon.
We really don't eat it that much... :unsure:
Maybe it's over represented in the takes on Spanish cuisine you guys get abroad?
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2022, 10:36:58 AMOther, Southern Croatian - a fusion a Italian, French and Balkan cooking - it is absolutely fabulous.
If I had to pick a region that is well known to the rest of the world, it would be Italian.
French influences in Croatian cuisine? First time I've ever heard that. What kind of stuff do they make? I would have guessed that coastal Croatian cuisine would be more similar to Italian/Greek than to French, and for it to incorporate more fish and seafood into it, which is absent almost in the rest of the region.
When I visited Slovenia its cuisine seemed really interesting to me, a mixture of Balkan, Italian and German, like the country itself.
Balkan cuisine has some really stellar stuff but it's not super varied, and really heavy on meats, at least what I've been able to experience from it.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 12:39:20 PMI think the breakthrough in London at the minute is probably West African. Nigerian and Ghanian places especially have been around for years as restaurants and food places that are basically relatively low-key, pretty cheap and for the diaspora community and local fans - but there's now a fair few that have opened that are very haute cuisine places. I desperately want to go here: https://ikoyilondon.com/ but it is very expensive (and it's very London/British food scene of fashionable combos right now - Nordic style foraging and "micro-seasonality"/local produce, big Japanese influence and West African flavours). There's a few other amazing looking restauurants like that I have my eye on (for when I win the lottery :weep:).
I think the next step is probably mass market, democratised, everyone gets to try it and restaurants pop up all over the place. I feel like that's the route Vietnamese, Korean and Thai took.
I feel like you have the order backwards - that a "new" cuisine starts out in low-income immigrant communities, then spread out into higher end and fashionable cooking. You even mention it in your opening about west african cooking.
In western Canada we have a very small west african community, so I doubt that's it. But I wonder if maybe Filipino food is the next big thing? Big immigrant community, there are local restaurants, even Jollibee (Filipino fast food) has gone international. Now the 2-3 times I've had Filipino food I wasn't super impressed, but that's been some kind of meat on a skewer served by a local community group, not at a proper sit-down restaurant.
But what do I know.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 12:51:49 PMI feel like you have the order backwards - that a "new" cuisine starts out in low-income immigrant communities, then spread out into higher end and fashionable cooking. You even mention it in your opening about west african cooking.
My theory and this could be wrong is low-income migrant communities/people looking for new food then, for want of a better word, "food influencers" and finally chains.
QuoteIn western Canada we have a very small west african community, so I doubt that's it. But I wonder if maybe Filipino food is the next big thing? Big immigrant community, there are local restaurants, even Jollibee (Filipino fast food) has gone international. Now the 2-3 times I've had Filipino food I wasn't super impressed, but that's been some kind of meat on a skewer served by a local community group, not at a proper sit-down restaurant.
But what do I know.
I went to a wedding where the catering were some Filipino street food guys - and it was incredible - I think they've just got the money together to launch a restaurant which is exciting. But aside from that my experience has been a bit mixed.
QuoteWhen I visited Slovenia its cuisine seemed really interesting to me, a mixture of Balkan, Italian and German, like the country itself.
Also Trieste - extraordinary weird, interesting but delicious mix of cultures.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 11:25:21 AMQuote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 11:05:01 AMYou made me look up Croatian restaurants in Barcelona, and there's a guy that seems to do Spanish-French-Balkan fusion. I'll add it to my list!
When I was in university, the U of Manitoba was in a deeply suburban part of town, so there wasn't really a lot of bars / restaurants nearby. More than a comfortable walk, but still kind of walkable, was a Bosnian restaurant. It's my only experience with balkan food to date. I don't remember if it was called a bosnian burger on the menu, or my fraternity buddies just called it that, but it was interesting and good. It was served on something mid-ways between a burger bun and a pita.
Cevapi?
(https://previews.123rf.com/images/visionsi/visionsi1411/visionsi141100347/33349894-cevapcici-a-small-skinless-sausage-cooked-on-the-barbecue-and-served-with-lepinja-bread-pickled-red-.jpg)
Quote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 12:56:59 PMCevapi?
That looks about right but I'm positive it was more shaped like a burger patty, and not kebabs.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 01:00:08 PMQuote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 12:56:59 PMCevapi?
That looks about right but I'm positive it was more shaped like a burger patty, and not kebabs.
Maybe in that particular place they shaped the meat differently, but it's what sounded closer to me.
There's another similar dish called Pljeskavica which is more burger-ish, but AFAIK it's Serbian and not Bosnian (although they are very similar cuisines) and it's not eaten in bread.
This is pljeskavica:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Pleskavitsa.JPG/754px-Pleskavitsa.JPG)
Quote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 12:51:09 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2022, 10:36:58 AMOther, Southern Croatian - a fusion a Italian, French and Balkan cooking - it is absolutely fabulous.
If I had to pick a region that is well known to the rest of the world, it would be Italian.
French influences in Croatian cuisine? First time I've ever heard that. What kind of stuff do they make? I would have guessed that coastal Croatian cuisine would be more similar to Italian/Greek than to French, and for it to incorporate more fish and seafood into it, which is absent almost in the rest of the region.
When I visited Slovenia its cuisine seemed really interesting to me, a mixture of Balkan, Italian and German, like the country itself.
Balkan cuisine has some really stellar stuff but it's not super varied, and really heavy on meats, at least what I've been able to experience from it.
The Northern area is definitely more German/Italian - at times it felt like Northern Italy/Austria. The Southern region (the Dalmatian Coast in particular) has a very different feel (and taste).
Regarding the French influence, I was surprised myself. But it was explained to me that Napoleon had a huge impact during the brief time he ruled there. For example, the region has a large number of olive trees because of his directive that they be planted. The cultural influences remained strong after he left.
By Balkan, I was referring more to the Turkish influences - the spices used in some of the dishes are mouthwatering.
As for particular dishes - its more about the style of cooking. I am not enough of a foodie to really go into the details. I just know what I like, and this I loved. :)
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 12:39:20 PMI really want to go but I also really love the idea of the guy who has absolutely perfected one thing - so just does that one thing really really well which, from what I understand, is big in Japan.
According to what I've read on the topic it is slightly obsessive, yeah. I sometimes find hard to believe some of the stories of the "In a true sushi restaurant you must spend your first 5 years just to learn how to do the rice before you're even allowed to touch the fish", but absolute dedication to their craft seems to be pretty widespread.
At the high end I believe they're also extremely fundamentalistic on the sourcing of ingredients. Stuff like "this dish can only be made with the exact rice the recipe calls from, which can only be obtained in a family farm where they've been cultivating rice for 20 generations" kind of thing. This is also sometimes common in very traditional French and Italian cuisine, which in Europe is reflected on their obsessive dedication to protected designations of origin for foodstuffs.
QuoteQuoteI do wonder what nation's cuisine is going to be next (and not that Vietnamese is the most recent - probably Korean went big more recently, if not others).
I think the breakthrough in London at the minute is probably West African. Nigerian and Ghanian places especially have been around for years as restaurants and food places that are basically relatively low-key, pretty cheap and for the diaspora community and local fans - but there's now a fair few that have opened that are very haute cuisine places. I desperately want to go here: https://ikoyilondon.com/ but it is very expensive (and it's very London/British food scene of fashionable combos right now - Nordic style foraging and "micro-seasonality"/local produce, big Japanese influence and West African flavours). There's a few other amazing looking restauurants like that I have my eye on (for when I win the lottery :weep:).
I think the next step is probably mass market, democratised, everyone gets to try it and restaurants pop up all over the place. I feel like that's the route Vietnamese, Korean and Thai took.
Edit: Also in terms of change - again I only really know London - but Sri Lankan and Burmese food have both had really popular mini-chains planting the flag over town. I suspect that'll spread.
What that shows is the incredible diversity of London, I guess. Over here in Spain I'd say that for a while it's Peruvian (and some other less glamourous South American cuisines) what has really shot to prominence, both at the high end and in more common places.
It seems that this "next big thing" debate is more about which inmigrant communities are more common in each of our countries. :lol:
Quote from: Zoupa on July 04, 2022, 10:29:38 AMGotta agree, Italy >>> Spain. Seems all you guys eat is jamon, jamon, jamon.
I did not have much at the times I have been there. Sure if you wanted to you could eat a lot of it, but there is a lot more on offer. Walk into a tapas place and just ask your server to bring you things you have probably never had, sit back and enjoy :)
Quote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 01:17:26 PMIt seems that this "next big thing" debate is more about which inmigrant communities are more common in each of our countries. :lol:
Not entirely though, as there's the odd example of Thai cuisine. I don't know that there's much of a Thai diaspora anywhere in the world, but Thai restaurants / cuisine are pretty common. Apparently a lot of it comes down to a Thai government program encouraging it's cuisine around the world.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/paxadz/the-surprising-reason-that-there-are-so-many-thai-restaurants-in-america
I try to only eat local food when I am abroad these days and taste as many specialities as I can. I have been in maybe seventy or so countries and virtually every place has at least some great food.
With the exception of breakfast. Continental breakfast no matter where in the world I am if that is available. I tried a few local varieties and I just cannot stand fish soup in East Asia or e.g. those disgusting beans in a full English. Also those Southern Europeans that consider a coffee and a cigarette breakfast are crazy.
I am a sucker for the Full Irish breakfast.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2022, 01:09:22 PMQuote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 12:51:09 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on July 04, 2022, 10:36:58 AMOther, Southern Croatian - a fusion a Italian, French and Balkan cooking - it is absolutely fabulous.
If I had to pick a region that is well known to the rest of the world, it would be Italian.
French influences in Croatian cuisine? First time I've ever heard that. What kind of stuff do they make? I would have guessed that coastal Croatian cuisine would be more similar to Italian/Greek than to French, and for it to incorporate more fish and seafood into it, which is absent almost in the rest of the region.
When I visited Slovenia its cuisine seemed really interesting to me, a mixture of Balkan, Italian and German, like the country itself.
Balkan cuisine has some really stellar stuff but it's not super varied, and really heavy on meats, at least what I've been able to experience from it.
The Northern area is definitely more German/Italian - at times it felt like Northern Italy/Austria. The Southern region (the Dalmatian Coast in particular) has a very different feel (and taste).
Yeah, Northern Italian cuisine's influence can be felt in many surrounding countries. And it also serves as a reminder than even within Italian cuisine there are notable differences between its Northern/Central and Southern varieties.
QuoteRegarding the French influence, I was surprised myself. But it was explained to me that Napoleon had a huge impact during the brief time he ruled there. For example, the region has a large number of olive trees because of his directive that they be planted. The cultural influences remained strong after he left.
Very interesting!
QuoteBy Balkan, I was referring more to the Turkish influences - the spices used in some of the dishes are mouthwatering.
Oh yes, they definitely go hard on the spices, which makes every single dish really savoury. It's similar in other countries of the region, like Bulgaria, and in Turkey itself, of course.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 01:30:50 PMNot entirely though, as there's the odd example of Thai cuisine. I don't know that there's much of a Thai diaspora anywhere in the world, but Thai restaurants / cuisine are pretty common. Apparently a lot of it comes down to a Thai government program encouraging it's cuisine around the world.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/paxadz/the-surprising-reason-that-there-are-so-many-thai-restaurants-in-america
Interesting - I was wondering about Korean as well. There's a Korean community in London and a heaviily Korean area with incredible food. But I feel like the trend of Korean restaurants everywhere was maybe not tied to that and possibly inspired by Instagram/people eating Korean food in the US etc.
QuoteWhat that shows is the incredible diversity of London, I guess. Over here in Spain I'd say that for a while it's Peruvian (and some other less glamourous South American cuisines) what has really shot to prominence, both at the high end and in more common places.
Yeah that's fair about London. Peruvian had a bit moment here too - there is a Peruvian community but again I think it was more to do with its reputation in foodie circles. It got a reputation - I think of Chef's Table and the Michelin stars in Peru etc.
I think the less glamorous Latin American is my other bet with West African. Except for Peruvian food I can't think of a break-out from relatively cheap and cheerful places - but my area has loads of Colombian, Ecuadorian, Dominican, Bolivian restaurants and I feel like it's just a matter of time before everyone starts talking about it more/something happens.
And in the UK more generally African and Latin American are two of the fastest growing communities so I think there's scope for a trend to spread beyond London.
Quote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 10:26:28 AMLet's settle the question once and for all.
After my trip to Italy, I think I'll have to concede the issue. The food there is absolutely ridiculously good.
Nothing beats Canadian cuisine. Boston beans. Shepherd's Pie. Turkey stew. Sole meunière. Boiled meat.
Ah, of all the crimes the British inflicted on us, this has got to be the worst. :(
;)
Seriously, I haven't travelled nearly enough to seriously participate in this poll.
Once again I have literally never eaten boiled meat in my life or seen it in the UK :lol:
Unless you mean a stew? :huh:
I am a huge fan of Cajun food but it is kind of French adjacent so I will just lump it in for my French vote.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 01:56:19 PMOnce again I have literally never eaten boiled meat in my life or seen it in the UK :lol:
Unless you mean a stew? :huh:
Boiled beef was eaten by the lower classes in Britain because the good cuts were all taken by the rich folks. So the poors got the shitty pieces and boiled them to make them palatable. While traditional I can see why this particular traditional food has fallen out of favor, right there with pottage.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 01:46:01 PMQuote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 01:30:50 PMNot entirely though, as there's the odd example of Thai cuisine. I don't know that there's much of a Thai diaspora anywhere in the world, but Thai restaurants / cuisine are pretty common. Apparently a lot of it comes down to a Thai government program encouraging it's cuisine around the world.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/paxadz/the-surprising-reason-that-there-are-so-many-thai-restaurants-in-america
Interesting - I was wondering about Korean as well. There's a Korean community in London and a heaviily Korean area with incredible food. But I feel like the trend of Korean restaurants everywhere was maybe not tied to that and possibly inspired by Instagram/people eating Korean food in the US etc.
10 seconds of googling suggests a completely different trajectory. No Korean government intervention.
https://www.seriouseats.com/how-korean-cuisine-got-huge-in-america
Basically that unlike Chinese of Thai food which quickly formed a standardized, westernized menu, Korean restaurants remained more "authentic", which slowed their interest in the west, but when it was eventually discovered was enjoyed for how different it was.
I'm not a big fan of Korean food BTW, but I've only had it a handful of times. Not terrible, but not something I'm inclined to search out.
I have noticed a trend for Korean places to appear lately. Though its not Korean Korean, but Korean fried chicken or some weird food on stick stuff I can't remember the name of.
I strongly suspect this is Chinese people following the trend like most Japanese restaurants you see about.
Quote from: viper37 on July 04, 2022, 01:46:40 PMQuote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 10:26:28 AMLet's settle the question once and for all.
After my trip to Italy, I think I'll have to concede the issue. The food there is absolutely ridiculously good.
Nothing beats Canadian cuisine. Boston beans. Shepherd's Pie. Turkey stew. Sole meunière. Boiled meat.
Don't forget poutine.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 01:56:19 PMOnce again I have literally never eaten boiled meat in my life or seen it in the UK :lol:
Unless you mean a stew? :huh:
I simmer a gammon before finishing it in the oven
As for, "what's becoming trendy now", in Barcelona it's the plague of hipsterised traditional restaurants. For foreign cuisine it's Peruvians and Southeast Asians.
The overabundance of Italy voters is just a reflection of this forum's anglosaxon palate.
"Oh I like pizza! Macaroni too!".
Bande d'incultes. Vous ne nous méritez pas.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 02:53:35 PM10 seconds of googling suggests a completely different trajectory. No Korean government intervention.
https://www.seriouseats.com/how-korean-cuisine-got-huge-in-america
Basically that unlike Chinese of Thai food which quickly formed a standardized, westernized menu, Korean restaurants remained more "authentic", which slowed their interest in the west, but when it was eventually discovered was enjoyed for how different it was.
I'm not a big fan of Korean food BTW, but I've only had it a handful of times. Not terrible, but not something I'm inclined to search out.
That's an interesting piece and I can see how in the early days some of th emore funky flavours in Korean food might have been a bit off-putting to a wider audience.
Also I suppose there's a wider point with when foods go mainstream that a large part of it is probably when they can access enough money for city centre places or to expand into a chain. I suspect sadly that part of it nowadays in making a pitch is whether you can make it Instagrammable - which I find very sad because I strongly believe the best food is basically normally a shade of brown :lol: :ph34r:
QuoteI simmer a gammon before finishing it in the oven
Yes! You're right - still some boiled meat here :lol:
Quote from: Zoupa on July 04, 2022, 03:20:25 PMThe overabundance of Italy voters is just a reflection of this forum's anglosaxon palate.
"Oh I like pizza! Macaroni too!".
Bande d'incultes. Vous ne nous méritez pas.
Yes. Clearly I voted Italy because of pizza and macaroni. :rolleyes:
Nothing wrong with French food - either from France or French-Canadian. It is in fact very good.
But there can only be one - and Italian is it. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/consumer/articles-reports/2019/03/12/italian-cuisine-worlds-most-popular
One of my go to restaurants is an Indian hole in the wall a couple miles from my place. I started out ordering lamb vindaloo every time, then added chicken tikka massalla to the rotation. Now I'm trying to work my way through the menu. Everything is good. Haven't had a bad dish yet.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 03:44:19 PMOne of my go to restaurants is an Indian hole in the wall a couple miles from my place. I started out ordering lamb vindaloo every time, then added chicken tikka massalla to the rotation. Now I'm trying to work my way through the menu. Everything is good. Haven't had a bad dish yet.
Indian food is great. Flavourful and spicy. I've taken to ordering vegetarian indian dishes because they're still damn good - you hardly miss the meat (which is not something I ordinarily say about vegetarian food).
The knock against Indian food for me though is that it's like Chinese food - every single place is working off the same basic menu. Like every single indian restaurant will have vindaloo and chicken tikka masala - and that's in Edmonton with a massive Indian/punjabi population. (after hockey in south-east Edmonton I went into a nearby grocery store to get a couple things - realized I was the only white guy in there, everyone else was Indian - and this wasn't a specialty indian grocery store).
Now, like Chinese, I know there's a whole lot more to the cuisine that what you get at a typical chinese or indian restaurant. But I'm not exposed to it. So maybe if I went to those countries I ight put them further up on my own personal list (although both have to be top 10).
I like Indian food, but I'm allergic to pistachios (mild) and it seems hit or miss on where it's a secret ingredient so I've stopped eating it.
For the purposes of this poll I picked Japanese. Good variation and a good ramen is hard to beat.
Vietnamese is good too. Great if you're in Vietnam and have more options then just pho and vermicelli. Helps if you like fish sauce, which I do. Who knew bbq goat boob was so tasty.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 01:56:19 PMOnce again I have literally never eaten boiled meat in my life or seen it in the UK :lol:
Unless you mean a stew? :huh:
No, not stew.
I mean boiled meat.
a) It's a recurring theme in
Asterix in Britain, Obelix
is served boiled boar in mint sauce, to his great despair. At the end, they offer him a banquet of boiled beef and warm beer as he run away :P
b) My maternal grandmother used to cook typical American/British cuisine, as imported from the American colonies after the conquest, and that included boiled meat (my great grandma was born in the US and lived there for a time amongst her cousins). Boiled chicken and boiled beef were a regular part of her meals. We, her grandkids, still have nightmares about it :P
c) Restaurants that serve typical
Canadian cuisine, which is really what was imported by New England British merchants often consist of boiled meat for their regular dinner menu. They're less popular than they used to be in the 1970s, and that's far from a bad thing. ;)
d) I guess the British standards of cooking have evolved since the time you had American colonies :lol: But, as referenced in a), it seems some people still considers this stereotypical of Britain.
Quote from: Valmy on July 04, 2022, 02:39:59 PMQuote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 01:56:19 PMOnce again I have literally never eaten boiled meat in my life or seen it in the UK :lol:
Unless you mean a stew? :huh:
Boiled beef was eaten by the lower classes in Britain because the good cuts were all taken by the rich folks. So the poors got the shitty pieces and boiled them to make them palatable. While traditional I can see why this particular traditional food has fallen out of favor, right there with pottage.
Kinda makes sense. Never thought about it this way. My maternal grandparents were very poor too. I guess that explains a lot about how my grandma cooked.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 03:54:30 PMThe knock against Indian food for me though is that it's like Chinese food - every single place is working off the same basic menu. Like every single indian restaurant will have vindaloo and chicken tikka masala - and that's in Edmonton with a massive Indian/punjabi population. (after hockey in south-east Edmonton I went into a nearby grocery store to get a couple things - realized I was the only white guy in there, everyone else was Indian - and this wasn't a specialty indian grocery store).
You're forgetting the House Special Curry. :P
That stuff you mention is irrelevant to me. When the menu has 40 items that's enough variety for me. And I'm not a foodie so I don't need to experience the chef's personal take on anything.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 03:54:30 PMThe knock against Indian food for me though is that it's like Chinese food - every single place is working off the same basic menu. Like every single indian restaurant will have vindaloo and chicken tikka masala - and that's in Edmonton with a massive Indian/punjabi population. (after hockey in south-east Edmonton I went into a nearby grocery store to get a couple things - realized I was the only white guy in there, everyone else was Indian - and this wasn't a specialty indian grocery store).
Now, like Chinese, I know there's a whole lot more to the cuisine that what you get at a typical chinese or indian restaurant. But I'm not exposed to it. So maybe if I went to those countries I ight put them further up on my own personal list (although both have to be top 10).
Yeah I am almost certain Chinese or Indian would be my answer - but I've never been and I'm aware I've seen a tiny chunk a lot of which will have been anglicised.
The other question is which of those would you not give up, which might not be the best. And I think for me it would be Indian even though I know there's a lot more to it :hmm:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 04:05:13 PMQuote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 03:54:30 PMThe knock against Indian food for me though is that it's like Chinese food - every single place is working off the same basic menu. Like every single indian restaurant will have vindaloo and chicken tikka masala - and that's in Edmonton with a massive Indian/punjabi population. (after hockey in south-east Edmonton I went into a nearby grocery store to get a couple things - realized I was the only white guy in there, everyone else was Indian - and this wasn't a specialty indian grocery store).
You're forgetting the House Special Curry. :P
That stuff you mention is irrelevant to me. When the menu has 40 items that's enough variety for me. And I'm not a foodie so I don't need to experience the chef's personal take on anything.
It's not that I want the chef's personal take, but rather walking into an Indian restaurant is like walking into a "European" restaurant that serves all the greatest hits from around europe: a menu of French Onion Soup, spaghetti bolognese, viener schnitzel, beef wellington, swedish meatballs and pyrogies. (and I spent no time coming up with this list so don't roast me on it).
Quote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 03:19:34 PMAs for, "what's becoming trendy now", in Barcelona it's the plague of hipsterised traditional restaurants.
What makes it a plague? And for that matter, what makes it hipsterised?
Servers wearing toques?
When I think hipsterized I think of places that serve food on weird "plates". I don't want to eat fries off a shovel, thanks.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 04:17:18 PMIt's not that I want the chef's personal take, but rather walking into an Indian restaurant is like walking into a "European" restaurant that serves all the greatest hits from around europe: a menu of French Onion Soup, spaghetti bolognese, viener schnitzel, beef wellington, swedish meatballs and pyrogies. (and I spent no time coming up with this list so don't roast me on it).
Gotcha. You want Indian restaurants to be Bengali restaurants, or Tamil restaurants etc.
Quote from: HVC on July 04, 2022, 04:27:01 PMWhen I think hipsterized I think of places that serve food on weird "plates". I don't want to eat fries off a shovel, thanks.
I think of food that has altitude. A meatloaf tower.
I like my food all down at sea level thank you very much.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 04:39:13 PMQuote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 04:17:18 PMIt's not that I want the chef's personal take, but rather walking into an Indian restaurant is like walking into a "European" restaurant that serves all the greatest hits from around europe: a menu of French Onion Soup, spaghetti bolognese, viener schnitzel, beef wellington, swedish meatballs and pyrogies. (and I spent no time coming up with this list so don't roast me on it).
Gotcha. You want Indian restaurants to be Bengali restaurants, or Tamil restaurants etc.
I don't want them all to be like that, but maybe some, Or at least for me to be exposed to more different varieties, before me saying it's the #1 cuisine.
Fun trivia about Indian cuisine: Vindaloo is actually of Portuguese origin. :smarty:
Other typically Asian dish of Portuguese origin? Japanese tempura.
And of course Japanese donkatsu is a rip off of snchitzel.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 06:05:16 PMAnd of course Japanese donkatsu is a rip off of snchitzel.
Which is Italian in origin.
Quote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 06:18:56 PMWhich is Italian in origin.
No shit. Didn't know that.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 06:51:57 PMQuote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 06:18:56 PMWhich is Italian in origin.
No shit. Didn't know that.
It's based on the "Cotteletta alla Milanese", which is documented since the Middle Ages. The Austrians imported it when they took over Northern Italy.
Quote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 05:53:39 PMFun trivia about Indian cuisine: Vindaloo is actually of Portuguese origin. :smarty:
Further fun fact: that's fairly common knowledge.
Quote from: Jacob on July 04, 2022, 04:21:10 PMQuote from: celedhring on July 04, 2022, 03:19:34 PMAs for, "what's becoming trendy now", in Barcelona it's the plague of hipsterised traditional restaurants.
What makes it a plague? And for that matter, what makes it hipsterised?
Some 10 years ago, there were some great new restaurants in Barcelona that took traditional Catalan cuisine, gave it a makeover and put it on the limelight- but now there's a lot of me-tooism going on, with a bunch of restaurants that follow the same concept but it's style over substance, and very overpriced.
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 10:42:58 PMQuote from: The Larch on July 04, 2022, 05:53:39 PMFun trivia about Indian cuisine: Vindaloo is actually of Portuguese origin. :smarty:
Further fun fact: that's fairly common knowledge.
Well, I find it interesting. :sleep:
I learned that during a pub quiz. :)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 06:05:16 PMAnd of course Japanese donkatsu is a rip off of snchitzel.
And ramen from China.
That's what Japan does very very well. Nipponify foreign food.
As mentioned native Japanese food, bar sushi, is broadly shit.
Quote from: Josquius on July 05, 2022, 04:55:39 AMQuote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 06:05:16 PMAnd of course Japanese donkatsu is a rip off of snchitzel.
And ramen from China.
That's what Japan does very very well. Nipponify foreign food.
As mentioned native Japanese food, bar sushi, is broadly shit.
Gyozas are also Chinese in origin, right?
Quote from: The Larch on July 05, 2022, 05:04:06 AMQuote from: Josquius on July 05, 2022, 04:55:39 AMQuote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 06:05:16 PMAnd of course Japanese donkatsu is a rip off of snchitzel.
And ramen from China.
That's what Japan does very very well. Nipponify foreign food.
As mentioned native Japanese food, bar sushi, is broadly shit.
Gyozas are also Chinese in origin, right?
Si.
Isn't there that map of Mongol invasions spreading dumpling culture all over Eurasia (if so - their greatest achievement)?
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 05, 2022, 05:07:05 AMIsn't there that map of Mongol invasions spreading dumpling culture all over Eurasia (if so - their greatest achievement)?
This one?
(https://preview.redd.it/ahi5uci3m3941.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dbe138a79b82958dadfa87345a81186ef4835d74)
I thank the Mongels for perogies
On the one hand continent wide conquest and looting followed by the Black Death, on the other - dumplings.
So it's basically a wash for the Mongols.
I don't think it's fair to blame them for the Plague. :hmm:
Georgian food is delicious. Tbilisi is wonderful :wub:
But yeah Italy wins the contest :lol:
Georgian food is incredible :mmm:
It's just an amazing country all round. Psellus was right all along :ph34r:
Spent a month there total with my wife while she worked there for a year. Wonderful people and incredible food all around the country. And the wine too :licklips:
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 04:17:18 PMQuote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2022, 04:05:13 PMQuote from: Barrister on July 04, 2022, 03:54:30 PMThe knock against Indian food for me though is that it's like Chinese food - every single place is working off the same basic menu. Like every single indian restaurant will have vindaloo and chicken tikka masala - and that's in Edmonton with a massive Indian/punjabi population. (after hockey in south-east Edmonton I went into a nearby grocery store to get a couple things - realized I was the only white guy in there, everyone else was Indian - and this wasn't a specialty indian grocery store).
You're forgetting the House Special Curry. :P
That stuff you mention is irrelevant to me. When the menu has 40 items that's enough variety for me. And I'm not a foodie so I don't need to experience the chef's personal take on anything.
It's not that I want the chef's personal take, but rather walking into an Indian restaurant is like walking into a "European" restaurant that serves all the greatest hits from around europe: a menu of French Onion Soup, spaghetti bolognese, viener schnitzel, beef wellington, swedish meatballs and pyrogies. (and I spent no time coming up with this list so don't roast me on it).
What you are actually getting isn't even a greatest hits of Indian cuisine. It's the standard menu introduced into the UK by Bengali immigrants in the 1960s. You won't find tikka masala or Madras in India. Vindaloo is a dish but completely different in Goa. In the last 10 years we've had a lot more variety offered with regional, more authentic restaurants.
Nothing wrong with any of them but hopefully like Brits you will soon get the chance to try dosas, thalis and sambas
Quote from: Gups on July 05, 2022, 01:14:18 PMWhat you are actually getting isn't even a greatest hits of Indian cuisine. It's the standard menu introduced into the UK by Bengali immigrants in the 1960s. You won't find tikka masala or Madras in India. Vindaloo is a dish but completely different in Goa. In the last 10 years we've had a lot more variety offered with regional, more authentic restaurants.
Nothing wrong with any of them but hopefully like Brits you will soon get the chance to try dosas, thalis and sambas
I'm sure that'll happen at some point - I mean it's started happening to Chinese restaurants, with some specializing in Cantonese or Sichuan cuisine, and we have fewer Chinese-Canadians locally than we do Indian-Canadians (they're up to around 10% of the population of Edmonton).
But yeah - I have no idea what any of those three foods are.
Like you said though - nothing wrong with the classic Indian restaurant dishes though.
Any fans of Ethiopian? I used to eat it all the time in DC.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2022, 04:19:53 AMAny fans of Ethiopian? I used to eat it all the time in DC.
Love it - went with friends to an Ethiopian round the corner at the weekend.
Also - at least here - I have never been to a bad Ethiopian restaurant. Every place I've been to has been good.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2022, 04:19:53 AMAny fans of Ethiopian? I used to eat it all the time in DC.
I don't like that bread.
Ethiopian is pretty good yeah. Though I've only ever had the one dish (well, normal and vegan version of it),the big hat buffet thing.
As to Indian all being the same... This is the case with standard places yes, but pretty common to find Parsi and South Indian.
I am not sure what is meant by Indian food being all the same. The variety is huge. Add to that variety, levels of spicing you can select for each dish, and you end up with a the opposite of sameness.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2022, 06:57:45 AMI am not sure what is meant by Indian food being all the same. The variety is huge. Add to that variety, levels of spicing you can select for each dish, and you end up with a the opposite of sameness.
Don't play coy.
:huh:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2022, 04:19:53 AMAny fans of Ethiopian? I used to eat it all the time in DC.
It's fine but like Garbon I'm not a fan of the bread.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2022, 06:57:45 AMI am not sure what is meant by Indian food being all the same. The variety is huge. Add to that variety, levels of spicing you can select for each dish, and you end up with a the opposite of sameness.
In Toronto you can find some good ones, especially sri lanken ( super spicy if you don't know what you're getting), but there are also a lot of generic places where white people go to get butter chicken :lol: those places all have the same set menu so you can go to a dozen and its all the same.
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 06, 2022, 07:54:05 AMQuote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2022, 04:19:53 AMAny fans of Ethiopian? I used to eat it all the time in DC.
It's fine but like Garbon I'm not a fan of the bread.
i used to go to a good restaurant, and its long gone now. Couldn't find a good replacement.