QuoteGeorgia to ask Biden for weapons, observers
By DOUGLAS BIRCH, Associated Press
TBILISI, Georgia – Georgia's president was expected to ask U.S. Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday for advanced weaponry and U.S. observers to monitor a cease-fire along the boundaries of two Moscow-backed breakaway regions.
President Mikhail Saakashvili also plans to urge Biden at a meeting in his presidential offices to push for NATO membership for Georgia, despite skepticism among some other members of the Western military alliance.
The White House has so far avoided making any public commitment on arms or observers, although it says it stands behind Georgia's application for NATO membership despite determined opposition from Russia.
Biden is on a four-day mission to Ukraine and Georgia to demonstrate U.S. support for the two countries, where Western-style democracies have struggled in the wake of peaceful revolutions.
A number of Eastern European political figures have expressed concern that the Obama administration could weaken its support for democratic reform, in its effort to build better relations with Russia.
But Biden's message on the trip so far has been that restoring cordial relations with the Kremlin will not come at the price of weakening support for democratic allies in the region. Nor will the U.S. recognize Moscow's claim to an exclusive sphere of influence among former Soviet states.
In the Georgian capital, Biden sought to calm concerns that the U.S. might weaken its support for Georgia in the wake of its defeat in a brief war with Russia in August.
At a banquet in Tbilisi on Wednesday, Biden said he wanted to send "an unequivocal, clear message to all who will listen and some who don't want to listen, that America stands with you and will continue to stand."
But the U.S. vice president has also come to urge the leaders of Ukraine and Georgia to heal divisions among pro-Western political factions that in Ukraine have crippled the government and in Georgia led to weeks of street protests this spring.
Before Biden's arrival in Georgia, Saakashvili announced a series of political reforms, including making the post of Tbilisi mayor directly elective.
Georgian police also removed dozens of metal cages protesters erected in front of the parliament building to block traffic along Tbilisi's central street.
The cages were meant to represent jails — symbolizing what opponents say is Saakashvili's increasing authoritarianism.
In Wednesday's banquet speech, Biden called Saakasvhili's 2003 Rose Revolution, which drove a Soviet-era leader from power, "a clarion call for freedom-loving people around the globe."
But he also urged Saakasvhili to "plant the roots of democracy deep," alluding to criticism of Saakashvili's rule.
He said the U.S. encouraged the growth of civil societies that "hold all governments accountable, yours and mine accountable."
At one point, Biden said in a joking manner: "You mentioned protesters. Welcome to democracy."
Associated Press writer Maria Danilova contributed to this report from Kiev, Ukraine.
Yes, we can!
I was almost afraid to read that, wondering at the next Biden-ism, while the Veep is on foreign lands! :unsure:
Quote from: KRonn on July 23, 2009, 08:29:20 AM
I was almost afraid to read that, wondering at the next Biden-ism, while the Veep is on foreign lands! :unsure:
I was actually hopeful. Surely even Soviet-made grenades have to go off occasionally.
Biden is pledging copious amounts of moral support. Though to be fair, Bush didn't do a whole lot more than that.
Btw, in reading up on this, I noticed that Belarus is apparently cozying up to Georgia & that its relations with Putinvedev are not so hot these days. Bit of a surprise there.
Poor Joe... he can't even hide in the "undisclosed location" anymore, since he gave away the location at a dinner party a little while ago. :ph34r: Though in his defense, his staff corrected his statement the next day, kind of.
Poor Barrack... :D
On the plus side though, I'm somewhat glad that the administration is reaffirming some commitment to these nations, though that's tempered by it being a difficult thing to actually have to stand behind given the nation's locations and possible Russian ability to interfere in various ways.
QuoteBiden brings tough love to Georgia
By DOUGLAS BIRCH, Associated Press
TBILISI, Georgia – A year after Georgia's disastrous war with Russia, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden assured the small country on Thursday that the United States stands behind it in their continuing conflicts with their region's dominant power.
But his message was tempered by tough love.
While saying Russia should withdraw its forces from two separatist Georgian regions, Biden also said Georgia should abandon any hopes of reclaiming those regions by force.
Further, he assured that the United States would stand behind Georgia's sovereignty, but Georgia must still strive to build a democratic society, six years after its peaceful Rose Revolution ousted a Soviet-era leader and brought President Mikhail Saakashvili to power.
"Your Rose Revolution will only be complete when government is transparent, accountable and fully participatory, when issues are debated inside this chamber, not only out on the streets," Biden told federal and local officials from across the former Soviet republic.
Georgia's opposition has held street protests since April to call for Saakashvili to step down, saying he has grown increasingly authoritarian.
Few nations are more pro-American than Georgia, and the audience listened in rapt silence for most of the speech delivered in the ornate chamber of the country's parliament building.
But Biden won several standing ovations when he criticized Russia's actions during and after its August 2008 war with Georgia. He pledged that the Obama administration would not abandon Georgia even as it sought to mend relations with Moscow, badly damaged by the Russian-Georgian war.
"I come here on behalf of the United States with a simple, straightforward message: We, the United States, stand by you on your journey to a secure, free and democratic, and once again united, Georgia," Biden said, bringing the audience to its feet.
After the outbreak of fighting in the separatist-held territory of South Ossetia, Russia sent tanks, troops and warplanes deep into Georgia in August.
Moscow later recognized the independence claims of both South Ossetia and Abkhazia, a separatist-held territory on the Black Sea. Only Nicaragua has followed suit.
Biden told the crowd that Georgia's best hope for reclaiming its lost territories wasn't military action — it was building a free, prosperous society that those territories would want to join.
"It's a sad certainty but it is true, there is no military option to reintegration," he said.
Saakashvili welcomed Biden's visit, saying it demonstrated the strong bonds between the two nations.
Biden also met with opposition leaders, who later praised the message he brought and his support for Georgia's sovereignty.
Irakly Alasania, a Saakashvili critic and former Georgian ambassador to the United Nations, lauded Biden's call for political and social reforms.
Biden told opposition leaders the U.S. stood behind the country, not Saakashvili individually, and "that the choice of president and a government is a matter for the Georgian people and not for any other state," said Nino Burdzhanadze, a former speaker of parliament.
Biden delivered the speech near the end of his two-day visit to Tbilisi, during which he and Saakashvili have discussed economic aid and a proposal for $16 million next year for military training and reorganization, officials on both sides said.
Biden's national security adviser Tony Blinken and a senior Georgian adviser denied that Saakashvili had asked Biden for anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons and U.S. participation in an EU observer mission along its border with the disputed regions. The U.S. official who had told that to reporters earlier Thursday said later he had spoken in error.Saakashvili has previously expressed a strong interest in acquiring U.S. weapons as he seeks to rebuild his military after the war, and Georgian officials in recent days have said they wanted the U.S. to join the observer mission.But Blinken said the Georgians have not formally requested heavy weapons, and that the EU has not invited U.S. participation in the mission. Blinken did not rule out the U.S. providing either after a formal request.In Moscow, the government said it would not stand by while Georgia was resupplied with weapons."We will continue inhibiting rearmament of the Saakashvili regime," Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said, according to the ITAR-Tass news agency.
Georgia is one of the world's biggest recipients of U.S. foreign aid, receiving about $1 billion from Washington over the past year — most toward reconstruction and humanitarian relief.
Saakashvili said he remarked to Biden during a meal: "I told you there was no such thing as a free dinner in Georgia."
Associated Press Writer Misha Dzhindzhikhashvili contributed to this report.
And this commitment means what? Jack shit, that's what.
We can't do anything for Georgia, we should concentrate on helping the Ukraine.
We should sell out the Poles first.
Seeing the news this morning, and it looks like VP Biden stuck his foot in his mouth, again. He said some very unkind things about Russia, about a bad economy, population going down, a nation on serious decline, and what ever else. After the Obama admin has been trying to "reset" relations with Russia. I think Sec State Clinton was trying to pick up some pieces there after these recent Biden-isms. I used to like Biden, thought he was intelligent and had some good ideas. But sheesh, seeing him as VP candidate and as VP, after just six months, I've sure changed my thinking on him. He needs to be locked away in that formerly undisclosed location. :huh:
I still can't understand what Obama was thinking when he chose Biden. At first I consoled myself with the notion that he was a lovable baffoon. However, it really appears like he has full blown senility. My last bit of a hope is that Obama and Biden are playing the good cop/demented cop game.
Then again, we shouldn't shed too many tears over the damage to our relations with Russia caused by Biden's comments. Russia always views foreign relations as a zero-sum game, and Chekists in power have been trained extensively to take advantage of naive Westerners. Therefore there wasn't much prospect for truly improved and productive relations. Maybe Biden's task was to show Russians that they're not dealing with country bumpkins, in his own peculiar and ironic way.
Quote from: DGuller on July 27, 2009, 11:06:12 AM
I still can't understand what Obama was thinking when he chose Biden. At first I consoled myself with the notion that he was a lovable baffoon. However, it really appears like he has full blown senility. My last bit of a hope is that Obama and Biden are playing the good cop/demented cop game.
Poor Barrack.... :(
Quote from: KRonn on July 27, 2009, 10:06:56 AM
Seeing the news this morning, and it looks like VP Biden stuck his foot in his mouth, again. He said some very unkind things about Russia, about a bad economy, population going down, a nation on serious decline, and what ever else. After the Obama admin has been trying to "reset" relations with Russia. I think Sec State Clinton was trying to pick up some pieces there after these recent Biden-isms. I used to like Biden, thought he was intelligent and had some good ideas. But sheesh, seeing him as VP candidate and as VP, after just six months, I've sure changed my thinking on him. He needs to be locked away in that formerly undisclosed location. :huh:
I tried to warn you guys. He's entertaining though, isn't he? :D
HIs comments about Russia were accurate though weren't they?
Quote from: DGuller on July 27, 2009, 11:12:39 AM
Then again, we shouldn't shed too many tears over the damage to our relations with Russia caused by Biden's comments. Russia always views foreign relations as a zero-sum game, and Chekists in power have been trained extensively to take advantage of naive Westerners. Therefore there wasn't much prospect for truly improved and productive relations. Maybe Biden's task was to show Russians that they're not dealing with country bumpkins, in his own peculiar and ironic way.
Yeah, I kind of considered that angle too. But my inclination is to think that once again Biden has gone his own way, and not the way of the Obama admin.
Quote from: DGuller on July 27, 2009, 11:12:39 AM
Maybe Biden's task was to show Russians that they're not dealing with country bumpkins, in his own peculiar and ironic way.
I wish he was that slick. Remember, this is the guy who last year told a dude in a wheelchair to stand up so everyone at the campaign rally could see him.
Quote from: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 11:16:36 AM
HIs comments about Russia were accurate though weren't they?
Some of them may be on the mark, but if the Obama admin is trying to reset and improve relations with Russia, working on some cooperation in issues like Iran (US got permission to move troops and supplies across Russia/Kyrgistan heading to Afghanistan). So Biden seems to be going off on his own, over and above, or beside, what the Obama admin is doing and saying. Wouldn't be the first time.
Quote from: KRonn on July 27, 2009, 10:06:56 AMHe said some very unkind things about Russia, about a bad economy, population going down, a nation on serious decline, and what ever else.
It's all true.
Quote from: derspiess on July 27, 2009, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 27, 2009, 11:12:39 AM
Maybe Biden's task was to show Russians that they're not dealing with country bumpkins, in his own peculiar and ironic way.
I wish he was that slick. Remember, this is the guy who last year told a dude in a wheelchair to stand up so everyone at the campaign rally could see him.
He's just a lovable goofball, not like that cunt harpy from Alaska.
Quote from: Barrister on July 27, 2009, 11:16:36 AM
HIs comments about Russia were accurate though weren't they?
Truth has no place in international diplomacy.
Quote from: derspiess on July 27, 2009, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 27, 2009, 11:12:39 AM
Maybe Biden's task was to show Russians that they're not dealing with country bumpkins, in his own peculiar and ironic way.
I wish he was that slick. Remember, this is the guy who last year told a dude in a wheelchair to stand up so everyone at the campaign rally could see him.
Sure, Biden looked silly because the guy didn't stand up. Can you imagine the upside, though, if the guy did stand up after being so inspired by Biden?
I think Biden is maybe trying to be the next Berlusconi. :)
Berlusconi is still way funnier and more awesome though.
The quote:
Quote"I think we vastly underestimate the hand that we hold," Biden said during an interview with The Wall Street Journal at the end of his trip to Georgia and Ukraine. "Russia has to make some very difficult, calculated decisions. They have a shrinking population base, they have a withering economy, they have a banking sector and structure that is not likely to be able to withstand the next 15 years, they're in a situation where the world is changing before them and they're clinging to something in the past that is not sustainable."
And the photo Fox News choose to accompany it. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Fimg%2F071609_biden.jpg&hash=8b8fcc2ea1ef97227e6b87881ed5040bdbd1f844)
Quote from: DGuller on July 27, 2009, 11:40:43 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 27, 2009, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 27, 2009, 11:12:39 AM
Maybe Biden's task was to show Russians that they're not dealing with country bumpkins, in his own peculiar and ironic way.
I wish he was that slick. Remember, this is the guy who last year told a dude in a wheelchair to stand up so everyone at the campaign rally could see him.
Sure, Biden looked silly because the guy didn't stand up. Can you imagine the upside, though, if the guy did stand up after being so inspired by Biden?
He was trying to perform a miracle and the ungrateful bastard didn't want to cooperate... :mad:
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 27, 2009, 06:20:44 PM
The quote:
Quote"I think we vastly underestimate the hand that we hold," Biden said during an interview with The Wall Street Journal at the end of his trip to Georgia and Ukraine. "Russia has to make some very difficult, calculated decisions. They have a shrinking population base, they have a withering economy, they have a banking sector and structure that is not likely to be able to withstand the next 15 years, they're in a situation where the world is changing before them and they're clinging to something in the past that is not sustainable."
That doesn't sound so bad, probably pretty much accurate actually, especially the part about "clinging to something in the past that is not sustainable." Clinging to their guns and red book, perhaps? ;)
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 27, 2009, 06:20:44 PM
And the photo Fox News choose to accompany it. :P
I think we have totally regressed to the old pre-radio days where every single news source was partisan and you just chose which newspaper full of lies and propaganda you wanted to read :P
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 09:56:26 AMI think we have totally regressed to the old pre-radio days where every single news source was partisan and you just chose which newspaper full of lies and propaganda you wanted to read :P
I'll take whichever one William Randolph Hearst runs these days, please.
Quote from: derspiess on July 27, 2009, 11:15:52 AM
I tried to warn you guys. He's entertaining though, isn't he? :D
Lol... I remember you warning us! :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on July 28, 2009, 10:26:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2009, 09:56:26 AMI think we have totally regressed to the old pre-radio days where every single news source was partisan and you just chose which newspaper full of lies and propaganda you wanted to read :P
I'll take whichever one William Randolph Hearst runs these days, please.
Murdoch is teh Zombie WR Hearst :contract: