Just a place holder thread for now, but I feel it might well be needed within the next year or two.
We've already got Russia threads and China threads. Why would someone dig up this one?
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 22, 2022, 11:16:44 AM
We've already got Russia threads and China threads. Why would someone dig up this one?
Perhaps when those and other incidents possibly merge into a wider war?
Mongers this is now 3 threads on the same subject, you need to stop.
So time to move to new zealand？
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 22, 2022, 11:16:44 AM
We've already got Russia threads and China threads. Why would someone dig up this one?
Maybe WW3 will start somewhere else?
Quote from: Tyr on January 22, 2022, 01:18:29 PM
So time to move to new zealand？
Well it worked for Covid-19.
Personally, I think this thread should be retitled Cold War 2, as that is far more likely to happen at this stage.
Quote from: PJL on January 22, 2022, 04:56:13 PM
Personally, I think this thread should be retitled Cold War 2, as that is far more likely to happen at this stage.
We're already there.
Isn't Cold War Two, the one with China in the lead role?
Quote from: Josephus on January 23, 2022, 06:46:30 AM
Isn't Cold War Two, the one with China in the lead role?
This is the remake, with older actors.
:wacko:
Hmmmm, GMT Next War: Ukraine. Hook it in with Next War: Poland.
Thankfully I live in an area targeted by like probably dozens of nuclear warheads so at least I'll die instantly.
Suck for the rest of you though.
Eh. It only takes one.
Good thing of living in a strategically irrelevant country, pretty good chance the russkies aren't nuking Barcelona.
I'll still probably die in the ensuing worldwide societal collapse.
I'm thinking about roaming the post-apocalyptic badlands in a gas-guzzler and using lots of hair products.
Don't forget your spiked metal codpiece.
I am worried we live too far from central London to be immediately killed by the blast(s), but close enough to get serious radiation levels and die a terrible slow death.
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2022, 04:10:44 AM
I am worried we live too far from central London to be immediately killed by the blast(s), but close enough to get serious radiation levels and die a terrible slow death.
I'm more worried about being stabbed or run over.
Quote from: garbon on January 25, 2022, 04:16:14 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2022, 04:10:44 AM
I am worried we live too far from central London to be immediately killed by the blast(s), but close enough to get serious radiation levels and die a terrible slow death.
I'm more worried about being stabbed or run over.
First of all in a nuclear war ESP will take care of the run over problem for you :hug: second of all, you chose to live in the middle of a metropolis.
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2022, 04:10:44 AM
I am worried we live too far from central London to be immediately killed by the blast(s), but close enough to get serious radiation levels and die a terrible slow death.
JUST FYI RUSSIAN SPIES. THE SHIPYARDS ARE GONE. DO NOT NUKE HERE. YOU WILL JUST BE IMPROVING THE PLACE. K THNX.
I guess this is really the end of Languish :(
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2022, 04:19:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 25, 2022, 04:16:14 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2022, 04:10:44 AM
I am worried we live too far from central London to be immediately killed by the blast(s), but close enough to get serious radiation levels and die a terrible slow death.
I'm more worried about being stabbed or run over.
First of all in a nuclear war ESP will take care of the run over problem for you :hug: second of all, you chose to live in the middle of a metropolis.
You don't develop ESP by being irradiated. That's a myth.
Don't live that close to the Arc de Triomphe anymore but still city centre so it should be quick.
I don't think the Russians are wasting a 800kt bomb on Montreal or anything close, so I get to die from nuclear winter.
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 25, 2022, 09:10:56 AM
I don't think the Russians are wasting a 800kt bomb on Montreal or anything close, so I get to die from nuclear winter.
You do know just how many bombs the Russians and Americans have, still into the thousands; don't worry GF Canada is getting nuked. :(
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 25, 2022, 09:10:56 AM
I don't think the Russians are wasting a 800kt bomb on Montreal or anything close, so I get to die from nuclear winter.
How will tell the difference from a normal Winter? :P
Quote from: mongers on January 25, 2022, 09:23:00 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 25, 2022, 09:10:56 AM
I don't think the Russians are wasting a 800kt bomb on Montreal or anything close, so I get to die from nuclear winter.
You do know just how many bombs the Russians and Americans have, still into the thousands; don't worry GF Canada is getting nuked. :(
Only by failure of one reaching their actual target over the artic.
It's not the nuclear winter that worries me these days, it's the nuclear summer that will follow it due to defoliation caused by all the bombs which will lead to a runaway greenhouse effect.
Quote from: garbon on January 25, 2022, 04:16:14 AM
I'm more worried about being stabbed or run over.
Honestly, same.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 24, 2022, 07:23:16 PM
Hmmmm, GMT Next War: Ukraine. Hook it in with Next War: Poland.
Combat Mission Black Sea is available on Steam. :P
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1502380/Combat_Mission_Black_Sea/
QuoteCombat Mission Black Sea is a military grade simulation depicting a fictional series of escalations between Russian and Ukraine which results in open conflict in the summer of 2017. As Russian forces move into Ukrainian territory the Ukrainians do their best to defend their country against a numerically and technologically superior adversary. Events surrounding the invasion cause NATO to send its advanced rapid deployment forces to check the Russian advance. A brutal scenario, for sure, but one which allows you to get a glimpse of what full spectrum contemporary near-peer tactical warfare is all about.
HIGHLIGHTS
At your command are detailed, highly researched American, Ukrainian, and Russian units from common brigade types such as Mech Infantry, Motor Rifle, Stryker, Armored, and more. All the capabilities one expects on the modern battlefield are included, such as Active Protection Systems (APS) swatting incoming threats, UAVs hovering around the battlefield transmitting valuable intel, and precision guided artillery munitions that find their mark in one shot. Well, as long as the enemy's electronic warfare attempts fail, otherwise you might find your finely tuned fighting machine isn't so finely tuned after all. Take all of this for a spin with four high-stakes campaigns, 22 standalone scenarios, and a plethora of Quick Battle maps to test your tactical acumen.
FEATURES
- Tactical warfare at battalion and below scale in a true 3D environment
- Command individual vehicles, teams, and squads
- Expansive simulation of "soft factors" such as Morale, Experience, and Leadership
- Innovative systems portraying Fog of War, Spotting, Line of Sight, Command & Control, and Objectives
- Unmatched realistic physics, ballistics, and battlefield effects
- Fight in a wide range of weather and lighting conditions, all of which realistically impact fighting abilities
- Unique hybrid system for RealTime or WeGo (turn based) play
- Full featured Editor for maps, scenarios, and campaigns
- Quick Battle system sets up deliberate or randomized battles based on player specifications
- Single player and head to head play, including Play By Email (PBEM)
- Supported for the long haul with patches, upgrades, and expansions
Which reminds me, Combat Mission: Shock Force was set in Syria, years before the civil war there. They really need to stop it with modern day scenarios. :ph34r:
SEX with HITLER is also available on Steam. :hmm:
Quote from: The Brain on January 25, 2022, 02:28:58 PM
SEX with HITLER is also available on Steam. :hmm:
So is Love with Kadyrov (that is Ramzan Kadyrov, leader of Chechnya).
Quote from: Syt on January 25, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 25, 2022, 02:28:58 PM
SEX with HITLER is also available on Steam. :hmm:
So is Love with Kadyrov (that is Ramzan Kadyrov, leader of Chechnya).
ty
Quote from: Syt on January 25, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 25, 2022, 02:28:58 PM
SEX with HITLER is also available on Steam. :hmm:
So is Love with Kadyrov (that is Ramzan Kadyrov, leader of Chechnya).
:x
I'm a bit more nervous about this now, I could see Putin eventually launching a demonstration nuclear explosion, out to sea or a small tactical warhead on land.
Not WW3 yet, but certainly some risks.
It will likely remain a regional conflict unless China intervenes. Then it will be WWIII and we will all wish we had been survivalists.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2022, 10:54:09 AMIt will likely remain a regional conflict unless China intervenes. Then it will be WWIII and we will all wish we had been survivalists.
I wonder if all the posters on preper forums are creaming themselves in anticipation and 'I told you so'?
I think the risk of a nuclear exchange is greater than WWIII.
I don't think Russia vs the West = a World War, unless at least China and possibly several other countries are involved as well.
But there's real risk that Putin kicks off a nuclear exchange in this.
Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2022, 11:19:18 AMI think the risk of a nuclear exchange is greater than WWIII.
I don't think Russia vs the West = a World War, unless at least China and possibly several other countries are involved as well.
But there's real risk that Putin kicks off a nuclear exchange in this.
I think the scale of a nuclear exchange and it's effects would be big enough to far more qualify for the world war label than the other 2,even if it was purely US vs Russia.
I guess, yeah.
Quote from: mongers on March 23, 2022, 10:47:32 AMI'm a bit more nervous about this now, I could see Putin eventually launching a demonstration nuclear explosion, out to sea or a small tactical warhead on land.
Not WW3 yet, but certainly some risks.
What does that accomplish though? We know he has nukes.
I mean given the poor performance of the Russian army it starts to call into question how well maintained their strategic forces are so maybe it proves that, but little else.
Putin has nukes.
His ability to "win" any scenario after he presses the "USE NUKES" button is almost impossible to imagine.
I think there are questions about
A) Whether or how many of his people would follow such an order,
B) How effective and capable his nuclear deterrent actually is from the standpoint of maintenance and readiness, and
C) How effective Western anti-nuclear capabilities are
The answers to these questions are not known, but they all trend towards the negative for Putin, and he cannot know the answers himself.
Now, this doesn't mean he won't try. Frankly, I think the outcome of the war in Ukraine was pretty predictable as well, and he did that anyway in the hopes that some silly assumptions about the Western and Ukrainian response would be true.
So I am not saying this as a "Don't worry, he would never try, because that would be dumb" sort of argument. I feel quite the opposite - history should teach us that autocrats do dumb things all the fucking time.
But it does mean that the West has to be willing to call the bluff, and we can do so from a position of relative strength. I am not sure what the right way to message that is, but we should message it - that you can rattle your nuclear saber if you wish, but if it comes to a shooting war with nukes, we have zero doubt as to the outcome, and it will be very, very bad for Russia.
(Of course it will be very bad for everyone)
It is a weak bluff, and the Russians know it is a weak bluff. We should head it off decisively NOW, and just state straight out that the US and Europe will continue to try to de-escalate the conflict, and will not escalate ourselves, but that we are confident in the relative capabilities of our nuclear deterrents, and will not consider any threats about the possible use of nuclear weapons as credible.
Yeah, I think Biden and the West need to be a little more explicit on the use of nuclear weapons or other WMDs: that their use in Ukraine will attract a proportionate NATO attack on Russian forces in or out of Russia.
Yes, it risks escalation, but Putin is the one who started it.
NATO has done the opposite - it has expressly said any attack on NATO will be disastrous for Russia. But in the same breath has said that NATO is only providing support to Ukraine but not intervening.
The logic is that it draws a clear line in the sand over which Putin cannot cross without retaliation from NATO - but definitely leaves the door open for Russia to do its worst in Ukraine.
Quote from: Barrister on March 23, 2022, 12:03:36 PMI mean given the poor performance of the Russian army it starts to call into question how well maintained their strategic forces are so maybe it proves that, but little else.
Yeah, I take it as a given that a bunch of Russia's nukes are going to fail. So, like, some of the West will probably survive in a total exchange... not that that makes it worthwhile.
The climate is in such a fragile place at the moment that I don't think it'll take many nukes to push it over the edge.
And then China owns whatever is left over in a glorious plastic dystopia.
Quote from: Josquius on March 23, 2022, 03:31:42 PMThe climate is in such a fragile place at the moment that I don't think it'll take many nukes to push it over the edge.
But many nukes will solve global warming.
Quote from: Maladict on March 23, 2022, 03:39:43 PMQuote from: Josquius on March 23, 2022, 03:31:42 PMThe climate is in such a fragile place at the moment that I don't think it'll take many nukes to push it over the edge.
But many nukes will solve global warming.
No, it won't. It will stop global warming for a few years, then accelerate it due to the loss of foliage caused by all the nuclear bombs.
But at least non of us will be around to witness that end result... oh wait
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2022, 04:06:34 PMBut at least non of us will be around to witness that end result... oh wait
I don't see the down side.
Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2022, 11:19:18 AMI think the risk of a nuclear exchange is greater than WWIII.
I don't think Russia vs the West = a World War, unless at least China and possibly several other countries are involved as well.
But there's real risk that Putin kicks off a nuclear exchange in this.
Belarus and Kazakhstan woud join, China would at least be an agressive neutral. If China joins, NK might join as well.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2022, 07:06:17 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2022, 04:06:34 PMBut at least non of us will be around to witness that end result... oh wait
I don't see the down side.
I prefer not to see my family die in a nuclear winter in the next couple of years. YMMV
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 24, 2022, 06:40:29 AMQuote from: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2022, 07:06:17 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2022, 04:06:34 PMBut at least non of us will be around to witness that end result... oh wait
I don't see the down side.
I prefer not to see my family die in a nuclear winter in the next couple of years. YMMV
You might not see them, you might die first...
Quote from: viper37 on March 24, 2022, 09:34:05 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on March 24, 2022, 06:40:29 AMQuote from: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2022, 07:06:17 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2022, 04:06:34 PMBut at least non of us will be around to witness that end result... oh wait
I don't see the down side.
I prefer not to see my family die in a nuclear winter in the next couple of years. YMMV
You might not see them, you might die first...
Your are right, I didn't consider the more positive outcome.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 24, 2022, 10:13:22 AMQuote from: viper37 on March 24, 2022, 09:34:05 AMQuote from: crazy canuck on March 24, 2022, 06:40:29 AMQuote from: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2022, 07:06:17 PMQuote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2022, 04:06:34 PMBut at least non of us will be around to witness that end result... oh wait
I don't see the down side.
I prefer not to see my family die in a nuclear winter in the next couple of years. YMMV
You might not see them, you might die first...
Your are right, I didn't consider the more positive outcome.
Glad to be of use. ;)
Sam Harris had a great guest on talking about the impact of the Ukraine war long term.
He mentioned how unfortunate it is that Putin is going to force a lot of countries to ramp up defense spending.
Not because they shouldn't - the should for sure - but because at the end of the day, spending on defense is such a waste of resources. And the world is realizing that history has not ended, and the ability to defend yourself against aggressors is still quite necessary.
Defense spending as a percentage of a nations budget has historically been radically higher then it has in the post WW2 era. Indeed, one could argue that defense spending (and offense spending, for that matter) was the primary purpose of national governments for most of human history where there was such a thing as a "nation".
It's a little sad that we have to, in some fashion, go back to building tools to kill each other instead of investing in more and better health care.
To say nothing of what all that spending is going to do in regards to the true primary global concern - climate change. This will (and has) taken away not just resources from that problem, but more importantly perhaps, attention.
If we're lucky it will make people focus more on what's important for a state to do, and what is less important and can be ditched.
The biggest reason why defense spending as a percentage of government revenue has gone down is that government revenue has shot up in the post-WW2 era. In 1913, the UK was spending 2.9% of GNP on defense; in 1976, 4.4%. In 2000, 2.4%. A drop, but not a huge one from 1914 and a big one from pre-end-of-Cold-War.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/military-expenditure-as-a-share-of-gdp-long
Quote from: Berkut on March 29, 2022, 02:25:29 PMTo say nothing of what all that spending is going to do in regards to the true primary global concern - climate change. This will (and has) taken away not just resources from that problem, but more importantly perhaps, attention.
Yes... I see rumblings oil companies are really seeking to exploit this to reclaim ground and increase drilling.
Really probing at how to profit from the war.
Quoteabout the impact of the Ukraine war long term.
He mentioned how unfortunate it is that Putin is going to force a lot of countries to ramp up defense spending.
Not because they shouldn't - the should for sure - but because at the end of the day, spending on defense is such a waste of resources. And the world is realizing that history has not ended, and the ability to defend yourself against aggressors is still quite necessary.
Yes. It's sad really. All it takes is one bad actor country and then everyone remotely in its area has to blow a lot of money on useless stuff.