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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Eddie Teach on December 08, 2021, 11:41:12 PM

Poll
Question: If you could upload your consciousness to an immortal robot, would you?
Option 1: In a heartbeat(my last) votes: 10
Option 2: No, but if I could have eternal youth I'd go for it votes: 5
Option 3: No, because I'm going to heaven votes: 2
Option 4: The thought makes me pray to Shiva "Please, let me die" votes: 4
Title: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 08, 2021, 11:41:12 PM
See sig.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: The Brain on December 09, 2021, 03:46:27 AM
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, I accepted it.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2021, 04:09:57 AM
Trippy dude.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2021, 04:14:31 AM
How similar to a human body would the robot vessel be on a scale from "indistinguishable from an actual human body" to "box on wheels with a basic webcam and mic/speaker setup to communicate with the outside world"?
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: celedhring on December 09, 2021, 04:19:40 AM
Push comes to shove you can just run videogames in your brain.  :P
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2021, 04:24:14 AM
Quote from: celedhring on December 09, 2021, 04:19:40 AM
Push comes to shove you can just run videogames in your brain.  :P

Well, you want to avoid a William and Mary (https://www.roalddahlfans.com/dahls-work/short-stories/william-and-mary/) situation. :P
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Maladict on December 09, 2021, 04:29:55 AM
Provided I keep my memory and mental faculties, am in full control and self-reliant, and have the ability to end it when I've had enough, I might consider it.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Josquius on December 09, 2021, 05:17:33 AM
Do I need a deformed pseudo-human in a jar inside my chest?
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 09, 2021, 08:40:56 AM
there was an episode of Sealab 2021 that dealt with just this serious issue.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Razgovory on December 09, 2021, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.


The copy will be an AI which means it will be indistinguishable from the normal you except that it will be terrible at computer games.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: crazy canuck on December 09, 2021, 06:28:15 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 09, 2021, 08:40:56 AM
there was an episode of Sealab 2021 that dealt with just this serious issue.

Also a couple of very good Dark Mirror episodes - one with the benefits of doing it and one with the hell of it all.

Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: DGuller on December 09, 2021, 06:29:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 09, 2021, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.


The copy will be an AI which means it will be indistinguishable from the normal you except that it will be terrible at computer games.
:huh: So the copy is going to be exactly like the real Tamas?
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Habbaku on December 09, 2021, 07:29:01 PM
 :face:
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Caliga on December 09, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.
Right.  This is the same reason why I contend that Star Trek-style teleporters wouldn't work.  You'd be killed the moment of teleportation, and the thing that materializes at the far end is an exact replica of you, but is not you.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2021, 11:53:55 PM
If the copy is indistinguishable from the (destroyed) original and preserves memories and personality and believes itself to be the  person in question: does it matter?
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: The Brain on December 10, 2021, 02:48:55 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2021, 11:53:55 PM
If the copy is indistinguishable from the (destroyed) original and preserves memories and personality and believes itself to be the  person in question: does it matter?

To the person who is killed? Yes. To observers? Depends on how they felt about the dead guy.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Berkut on December 10, 2021, 11:41:27 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 09, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.
Right.  This is the same reason why I contend that Star Trek-style teleporters wouldn't work.  You'd be killed the moment of teleportation, and the thing that materializes at the far end is an exact replica of you, but is not you.

*I* invented that concept!

Star Trek teleporters are mass murder machines. Nobody can tell, of course, since the new person thinks they are the old person, but they are not.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Habbaku on December 10, 2021, 11:49:04 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 10, 2021, 11:41:27 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 09, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.
Right.  This is the same reason why I contend that Star Trek-style teleporters wouldn't work.  You'd be killed the moment of teleportation, and the thing that materializes at the far end is an exact replica of you, but is not you.

*I* invented that concept!

Star Trek teleporters are mass murder machines. Nobody can tell, of course, since the new person thinks they are the old person, but they are not.

That concept was well-discussed before you got to it.  :P
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Razgovory on December 10, 2021, 11:55:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2021, 11:53:55 PM
If the copy is indistinguishable from the (destroyed) original and preserves memories and personality and believes itself to be the  person in question: does it matter?


Dramatically.  One is an AI and would not feel the same feelings as the human being.  Unless the programmer is a lunatic and made AIs that can feel pain and boredom.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2021, 11:59:27 AM
Well in the case of the transporter it is a biological clone.

There was a sci fi series where a transporter would create a clone on the other end but also leave the original version so every time you beamed around you created another copy of yourself. I thought that was interesting.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: HVC on December 10, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 09, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.
Right.  This is the same reason why I contend that Star Trek-style teleporters wouldn't work.  You'd be killed the moment of teleportation, and the thing that materializes at the far end is an exact replica of you, but is not you.

but what is you? if its just a collection of memories then copy you is still you.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Josquius on December 10, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Continuity.
Though I don't see reason why a robot transplant can't have that. Link you to the robot so you're in both at once then turn off the bio body.

Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2021, 11:59:27 AM
Well in the case of the transporter it is a biological clone.

There was a sci fi series where a transporter would create a clone on the other end but also leave the original version so every time you beamed around you created another copy of yourself. I thought that was interesting.
That was the prestige right?
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Maladict on December 10, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
You already died when the first cell divided into two.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Razgovory on December 10, 2021, 05:40:00 PM
Quote from: HVC on December 10, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 09, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.
Right.  This is the same reason why I contend that Star Trek-style teleporters wouldn't work.  You'd be killed the moment of teleportation, and the thing that materializes at the far end is an exact replica of you, but is not you.

but what is you? if its just a collection of memories then copy you is still you.


But the memories are not real.  They are memories of events did not happen to the clone.  Imagine that before you went to into the teleporter I cheated you out of a bunch of money.  You go into the teleporter and the clone comes out and tries to sue me.  Would it have a case?  What about if three clones came out instead of one?  Would they all have cases, or each have a third of a case?  I say no, because it/they are different entities with false memories.  If it/they tried to testify about its experiences they could not without making a false statement.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: saskganesh on December 10, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
I will live this life the best I can, and try to help others along on the way. That's it. We will all die, which is sad, but it is what keeps us human. I will never lose my humanity and join the Borg. I will just say Good Night.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: frunk on December 10, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 10, 2021, 11:49:04 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 10, 2021, 11:41:27 AM

*I* invented that concept!

Star Trek teleporters are mass murder machines. Nobody can tell, of course, since the new person thinks they are the old person, but they are not.

That concept was well-discussed before you got to it.  :P

Nonsense, Berkut is a time traveler from ancient Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus).
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 10, 2021, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 09, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 09, 2021, 04:40:42 AM
Is it a copy? If yes then maybe if my family wants me to. Otherwise what's the point? Unless my brain is implanted into a robot body and kept immortal there, it would not be me, just a robot copy of me. I'd still die.
Right.  This is the same reason why I contend that Star Trek-style teleporters wouldn't work.  You'd be killed the moment of teleportation, and the thing that materializes at the far end is an exact replica of you, but is not you.
Yes.  They had plots where transporter clones show up and go about their business, becoming independent people. Makes me wonder why they never used it as a plot device to have some form of immortality.  THey just 'record you' every now and then and then use the transporter to make a new copy if something happens.  THey'd not go through nearly as many Red Shirts.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 10, 2021, 07:58:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 10, 2021, 05:40:00 PM
But the memories are not real.  They are memories of events did not happen to the clone.  Imagine that before you went to into the teleporter I cheated you out of a bunch of money.  You go into the teleporter and the clone comes out and tries to sue me.  Would it have a case?  What about if three clones came out instead of one?  Would they all have cases, or each have a third of a case? 

You've convinced me, I am now in favor of rapid development and use of transporter technology.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: grumbler on December 10, 2021, 10:27:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 10, 2021, 07:58:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 10, 2021, 05:40:00 PM
But the memories are not real.  They are memories of events did not happen to the clone.  Imagine that before you went to into the teleporter I cheated you out of a bunch of money.  You go into the teleporter and the clone comes out and tries to sue me.  Would it have a case?  What about if three clones came out instead of one?  Would they all have cases, or each have a third of a case? 

You've convinced me, I am now in favor of rapid development and use of transporter technology.

Except that the one lawyer hired to represent all of them would just clone himself and collect all the lawyers fees.

In fact, cloned lawyers would have the advantage that no one would ask which of them had the human soul.
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Threviel on December 11, 2021, 07:16:18 AM
Didn't Next Generation have an episode where Riker was copied in a transporter malfunctions years ago and they happen upon his clone?
Title: Re: The Curse of the Flesh
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 11, 2021, 10:00:47 AM
Quote from: Threviel on December 11, 2021, 07:16:18 AM
Didn't Next Generation have an episode where Riker was copied in a transporter malfunctions years ago and they happen upon his clone?
Yeah, and he showed up on DS9.