https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/11/sailboat-collides-with-french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle/ (https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/11/sailboat-collides-with-french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle/)OK, so how in the hell do you not notice a freaking *aircraft carrier*????
The sailboat was rather lucky to only get de-masted.
I thought this bit at the end of the article was interesting:
QuoteFor the record, the aircraft carrier is set take part next week in the advanced exercise "POLARIS": It will place the Charles de Gaulle and French carrier strike group in a high-intensity combat preparation scenario. The large scale exercise will involve the French Army and French Air Force, as well as nearly 50% of the first rank (front line) surface combatants of the French Navy and some foreign ships. A French Navy spokesperson confirmed to Naval News that POLARIS will be the largest exercise in the history of the French Navy.
That cannot really be the largest exercise in the history of the French Navy, can it???
Well, largest measured how?
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2021, 07:45:04 PM
Well, largest measured how?
Gross tonnage perhaps? Most aircraft involved?
I guess historically training exercises like this weren't really done?
So yeah. 300 years ago they amassed more ships together but not for a training exercise.
Number of ships relative to the active fleet? It says 50% will take part.
Seems like a strong reaction to Polish naval aggression, but the Poles did send their flagship.
Yeah 50 % of surface fleet seems pretty massive.
It's a multi-service exercise, so might not be the largest in purely naval terms.
When my dad was in the Navy his ship collided with the Clemenceau while on joint exercises in the North Atlantic. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on November 13, 2021, 08:19:59 AM
When my dad was in the Navy his ship collided with the Clemenceau while on joint exercises in the North Atlantic. :blush:
Having experienced the issues of trying to screen the carrier when everyone was in the same navy with the same language and procedures, I know I would hate to try to screen a carrier from another navy. Carriers maneuver to minimize the difficulty experienced by their pilots, not to minimize the difficulties experienced by their screen. Plus, they are run by aviators who don't understand the importance of communicating with their screen. That means lots of screening ship OODs wondering what the fuck the carrier is doing now. With foreign ships it would be a nightmare. That's why I have always been impressed with NATO and Pacific ally ships that work so well with US carriers.
Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2021, 09:38:01 AM
Quote from: Caliga on November 13, 2021, 08:19:59 AM
When my dad was in the Navy his ship collided with the Clemenceau while on joint exercises in the North Atlantic. :blush:
Having experienced the issues of trying to screen the carrier when everyone was in the same navy with the same language and procedures, I know I would hate to try to screen a carrier from another navy. Carriers maneuver to minimize the difficulty experienced by their pilots, not to minimize the difficulties experienced by their screen. Plus, they are run by aviators who don't understand the importance of communicating with their screen. That means lots of screening ship OODs wondering what the fuck the carrier is doing now. With foreign ships it would be a nightmare. That's why I have always been impressed with NATO and Pacific ally ships that work so well with US carriers.
There are like 4000 crew on a carrier. Surely there can be a couple of them whose only job is to coordinate and inform the screen what the CV is doing???
Quote from: Berkut on November 13, 2021, 10:01:34 AM
There are like 4000 crew on a carrier. Surely there can be a couple of them whose only job is to coordinate and inform the screen what the CV is doing???
There are, but in the USN they are all aviators and they don't know what it is that the screen needs to know. Or they communicate but don't understand what their signals actually mean. The Kennedy/Belknap collision occurred because the aviators on the birdfarm didn't understand that, by having two "execute to follow" signals out there (meaning, "get ready to do this and I will tell you when to do it"), they were ordering both to be executed when they signaled "execute." Rotating the screen and changing course by ninety degrees at the same time (especially at night) puts the screening ships in a real bind - especially when the carrier itself does NOT execute the ordered turn.
My dad served on the USS Nantahala, which was a fleet oiler. I can't remember if she was trying to refuel the Clemenceau or not when the collision happened.
Quote from: Caliga on November 14, 2021, 02:22:40 PM
My dad served on the USS Nantahala, which was a fleet oiler. I can't remember if she was trying to refuel the Clemenceau or not when the collision happened.
The tragic waiter-President collision of 1919.
Quote from: Caliga on November 14, 2021, 02:22:40 PM
My dad served on the USS Nantahala, which was a fleet oiler. I can't remember if she was trying to refuel the Clemenceau or not when the collision happened.
Ah, that's a bit different. UNREPs see bumping a fair few times. The venturi effect of the two ships close aboard tries to pull them together. I hated conning alongside the oiler. You could only change course or speed very slightly to avoid colliding, which meant that you had to see problems before they arose and issue the helm orders in advance so you had time for them to take effect when you needed them.
Quote from: Berkut on November 12, 2021, 06:23:32 PM
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/11/sailboat-collides-with-french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle/ (https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/11/sailboat-collides-with-french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle/)
OK, so how in the hell do you not notice a freaking *aircraft carrier*????
They are testing their new cloaking device. :ph34r:
Quote from: grumbler on November 13, 2021, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 13, 2021, 10:01:34 AM
There are like 4000 crew on a carrier. Surely there can be a couple of them whose only job is to coordinate and inform the screen what the CV is doing???
There are, but in the USN they are all aviators and they don't know what it is that the screen needs to know. Or they communicate but don't understand what their signals actually mean. The Kennedy/Belknap collision occurred because the aviators on the birdfarm didn't understand that, by having two "execute to follow" signals out there (meaning, "get ready to do this and I will tell you when to do it"), they were ordering both to be executed when they signaled "execute." Rotating the screen and changing course by ninety degrees at the same time (especially at night) puts the screening ships in a real bind - especially when the carrier itself does NOT execute the ordered turn.
Since it's a problem, why don't they use sailors for this specific job?
Quote from: viper37 on November 15, 2021, 12:24:58 AM
Since it's a problem, why don't they use sailors for this specific job?
The question every surface warfare guy has asked since the dawn of carriers! :lol:
The reason is that carriers must be commanded by aviators (for no clear reason), and so you have to get aviators some surface ship experience on the carriers (plus the fact that half the officers in the USN are aviators and you have to stick hem somewhere when there are not enough planes for everyone to fly). You end up with the birdfarms being officered by aviators except in the engineering, supply, and specialist departments.
It's not like carriers have a monopoly on collisions at sea.
Quote from: grumbler on November 15, 2021, 08:35:34 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 15, 2021, 12:24:58 AM
Since it's a problem, why don't they use sailors for this specific job?
The question every surface warfare guy has asked since the dawn of carriers! :lol:
The reason is that carriers must be commanded by aviators (for no clear reason), and so you have to get aviators some surface ship experience on the carriers (plus the fact that half the officers in the USN are aviators and you have to stick hem somewhere when there are not enough planes for everyone to fly). You end up with the birdfarms being officered by aviators except in the engineering, supply, and specialist departments.
I was mistakenly under the impression the CAG was the top aviation specialist on board, with the captain and XO usually being naval experts, as in, surface warfare (save for some exceptions, of course).
Thank you for the clarification. To the best of your knowledge, is this situation unique to the US Navy or do other navies with
birdfarms (JAG did a pretty bad job on teaching me naval slang! :mad: ) also operate that way?
Quote
It's not like carriers have a monopoly on collisions at sea.
oh, I don't doubt it.