Yes, that time of the year again: Day of Portugal, of Camões and of the Portuguese Communities. :)
For the Salazar-friendly ones/ID politics people around here, it's Dia da Raça, i.e Race Day but the luso-tropicalist version (Freyre).
Congratulations! I wish you a speedy recovery from Covid so it remains open for holidaying in August! :hug:
Someone told me that Portugal is one of the most attractive destinations for American citizens looking to semi-retire abroad....that was kind of surprising to me. I always thought of Portugal as one of the more affluentish European countries (at least in the last couple decades), and hence probably not very cheap?
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 09:08:24 AM
Someone told me that Portugal is one of the most attractive destinations for American citizens looking to semi-retire abroad....that was kind of surprising to me. I always thought of Portugal as one of the more affluentish European countries (at least in the last couple decades), and hence probably not very cheap?
I am not sure about now, but pre-Covid there were a lot of villas coming on the market. The reason was back in the 80s/early 90s, Portugal was a destination for UK retirees who purchased the villas. Their children were apparently not so keen on keeping them and so a lot of them were being sold. A good friend and I were looking at jointly purchasing a very nice one on a hill overlooking a beach near Porto (which I think is beautiful). The cost of it - about 300k CDN total. The price of a parking stall in Vancouver (ok a little exaggeration - my share of the cost would have been the price of a parking stall).
I am not sure what Covid has done to those prices or whether the UK expats have realized it is better to keep those properties.
One advantage is that they speak Brazilian. I have watched enough porn so I think I could manage everyday life.
I'd consider Portugal a relatively cheap vacation destination.
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
As for Brazilian porn, I did not know they catered for the bestiality/Brain market, or the Brain found a new "niche".
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Who wants to live somewhere with a bunch of people looking to gouge you based on your skin color though? That's definitely a hard pass.
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Who wants to live somewhere with a bunch of people looking to gouge you based on your skin color though? That's definitely a hard pass.
Rest assured it will be the same price for Anglos, be them white, black or whatever else. :)
OTOH, as you wish, no need for more Anglos to drive up prices.
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Who wants to live somewhere with a bunch of people looking to gouge you based on your skin color though? That's definitely a hard pass.
I hate to break it to you, but you will need to stay within your home territory. Almost everywhere I know of charges out of towners more - including here. Whistler even charges Vancouverites more than locals.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Who wants to live somewhere with a bunch of people looking to gouge you based on your skin color though? That's definitely a hard pass.
I hate to break it to you, but you will need to stay within your home territory. Almost everywhere I know of charges out of towners more - including here. Whistler even charges Vancouverites more than locals.
Huh, most every place I've visited had just one listed priced for things.
I mean, obviously if you are visiting a tourist destination, that prices is higher then normal, but that is for everyone not just "Anglos".
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 10:18:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Who wants to live somewhere with a bunch of people looking to gouge you based on your skin color though? That's definitely a hard pass.
I hate to break it to you, but you will need to stay within your home territory. Almost everywhere I know of charges out of towners more - including here. Whistler even charges Vancouverites more than locals.
Huh, most every place I've visited had just one listed priced for things.
I mean, obviously if you are visiting a tourist destination, that prices is higher then normal, but that is for everyone not just "Anglos".
Yeah, what you are seeing is the listed price for you.
If you think that is the price the locals are paying, well if that makes you feel better, I won't expend more effort disabusing you of that belief.
Of course there are exceptions. If you go into less touristed areas you have a much better chance paying the same price. But in places where there are a large amount of tourists - if the locals are there, it is very unlikely they are paying the same inflated price.
When I sell properties there's no way I'd take less money than the highest offer.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:30:17 AM
The cost of it - about 300k CDN total.
So, like $14.75 US? Sweet.
Quote from: PDH on June 21, 2021, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:30:17 AM
The cost of it - about 300k CDN total.
So, like $14.75 US? Sweet.
Yeah, and they charge you the same as what they charge their neighbour. They also love English speakers.
Quote from: The Brain on June 21, 2021, 10:28:05 AM
When I sell properties there's no way I'd take less money than the highest offer.
Excellent. But we moved on to the cost of vacationing there.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:23:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 10:18:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Who wants to live somewhere with a bunch of people looking to gouge you based on your skin color though? That's definitely a hard pass.
I hate to break it to you, but you will need to stay within your home territory. Almost everywhere I know of charges out of towners more - including here. Whistler even charges Vancouverites more than locals.
Huh, most every place I've visited had just one listed priced for things.
I mean, obviously if you are visiting a tourist destination, that prices is higher then normal, but that is for everyone not just "Anglos".
Yeah, what you are seeing is the listed price for you.
If you think that is the price the locals are paying, well if that makes you feel better, I won't expend more effort disabusing you of that belief.
That isn't the question. The question is whether some specific group is being gouged.
And again, I've worked in plenty of tourist destinations. I can assure you we did not have different prices for "locals". Indeed, most of the time I would not even know who was local or not - the USA is a pretty diverse place, so I would not even be able to just determine some customer was a Japanese tourist, for example. They might be an a Japanese person who lives in the US, for example. I wonder how people in Portugal make sure they gouge only the right people.
Locals just didn't go to tourist destinations.
Might be different in Canada of course - they might be a lot more tolerant of just straight out bigotry?
I don't think so though - I've been to Toronto plenty of times for example - even Niagara Falls. I am pretty sure I paid the exact same prices Canadians paid in both places. Especially since I would, for example, go to dinner with local Canadian friends sometimes, and they seemed to pay the exact same prices I did.
So it seems odd to me - I've worked in tourist destinations, and visited tourist destinations, so I suspect I have a pretty good handle on how pricing works.
Never seen any "We charge everyone 8.99 for the cheeseburger, unless you think they are "foreign" in which case, charge them 24.99".
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:32:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 21, 2021, 10:28:05 AM
When I sell properties there's no way I'd take less money than the highest offer.
Excellent. But we moved on to the cost of vacationing there.
When I rent out properties there is no way I'd take less money than the highest offer.
CC, can you provide some examples of when you've paid the "local" price vs. the listed price for out-of-towners and how significant that discount was? Restaurants? Auto shops? Major chains or mom and pops?
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:23:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 10:18:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Not for Anglos, prices are multiplied by 2 or 3 for them.
Still inexpensive.
Who wants to live somewhere with a bunch of people looking to gouge you based on your skin color though? That's definitely a hard pass.
I hate to break it to you, but you will need to stay within your home territory. Almost everywhere I know of charges out of towners more - including here. Whistler even charges Vancouverites more than locals.
Huh, most every place I've visited had just one listed priced for things.
I mean, obviously if you are visiting a tourist destination, that prices is higher then normal, but that is for everyone not just "Anglos".
Yeah, what you are seeing is the listed price for you.
If you think that is the price the locals are paying, well if that makes you feel better, I won't expend more effort disabusing you of that belief.
That isn't the question. The question is whether some specific group is being gouged.
And again, I've worked in plenty of tourist destinations. I can assure you we did not have different prices for "locals". Indeed, most of the time I would not even know who was local or not - the USA is a pretty diverse place, so I would not even be able to just determine some customer was a Japanese tourist, for example. They might be an a Japanese person who lives in the US, for example. I wonder how people in Portugal make sure they gouge only the right people.
Locals just didn't go to tourist destinations.
Might be different in Canada of course - they might be a lot more tolerant of just straight out bigotry?
I don't think so though - I've been to Toronto plenty of times for example - even Niagara Falls. I am pretty sure I paid the exact same prices Canadians paid in both places. Especially since I would, for example, go to dinner with local Canadian friends sometimes, and they seemed to pay the exact same prices I did.
So it seems odd to me - I've worked in tourist destinations, and visited tourist destinations, so I suspect I have a pretty good handle on how pricing works.
Never seen any "We charge everyone 8.99 for the cheeseburger, unless you think they are "foreign" in which case, charge them 24.99".
FWIW I don't think the Canadian system would be legal in Sweden.
Quote from: The Brain on June 21, 2021, 10:42:01 AM
FWIW I don't think the Canadian system would be legal in Sweden.
I am trying to think how I would make that work.
I've run restaurants in tourist locations, and I've worked in them.
I mean, if my boss told me I had to make decisions on people background, how would I do that? Some people are *obviously* tourists, sure, but most tourists do not really look like tourists, and actually try pretty hard to not look overly clueless.
I suspect I would get that wrong a lot, and the very criteria CC and those who think this is how things work and should work would have to define would pretty much be completely impossible to differentiate from simple racism. I mean...if they don't speak English, should I assume they are tourists? Aren't very white looking? What exactly should I use so I can decide which price to charge them?
Would it be like a sliding scale based on how "Anglo" (or in the case of Canada/US/UK how "Not Anglo") they appeared?
Seems pretty fraught to me, but apparently CC and everyone else has this locked down.
And yeah, I am pretty sure any actual system would get you immediately fired and your business shut down for discrimination on the basis of race.
Quote from: Habbaku on June 21, 2021, 10:41:56 AM
CC, can you provide some examples of when you've paid the "local" price vs. the listed price for out-of-towners and how significant that discount was? Restaurants? Auto shops? Major chains or mom and pops?
Sure. A very good example is two blocks away from my house. The most touristed spot in BC is the Capilano suspension bridge.
https://www.capbridge.com/
If you go there, you will pay 54 bucks, along with everyone else outside this area. I get in for free. Mrs. CC and I pop in when it is relatively empty of tourists - which these days is fairly often. Nice place to go for a walk. :)
At Whistler, there is a locals discount from the posted price on everything from lift tickets to meals at restaurants. The amount of the discount varies but is about 20%.
At my favourite spot in Croatia, after the second week, they gave me the local price which was not on the menu - I made up the difference in the savings by increasing the tip.
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
Might be different in Canada of course - they might be a lot more tolerant of just straight out bigotry?
Lots of businesses have variable pricing practices. Some are based on grounds that are protected under human rights codes and are improper. Others are not. You are lumping all variable pricing practices into the categorie of being bigoted which I doubt is accurate.
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 10:57:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 21, 2021, 10:42:01 AM
FWIW I don't think the Canadian system would be legal in Sweden.
I am trying to think how I would make that work.
I've run restaurants in tourist locations, and I've worked in them.
I mean, if my boss told me I had to make decisions on people background, how would I do that? Some people are *obviously* tourists, sure, but most tourists do not really look like tourists, and actually try pretty hard to not look overly clueless.
I suspect I would get that wrong a lot, and the very criteria CC and those who think this is how things work and should work would have to define would pretty much be completely impossible to differentiate from simple racism. I mean...if they don't speak English, should I assume they are tourists? Aren't very white looking? What exactly should I use so I can decide which price to charge them?
Would it be like a sliding scale based on how "Anglo" (or in the case of Canada/US/UK how "Not Anglo") they appeared?
Seems pretty fraught to me, but apparently CC and everyone else has this locked down.
And yeah, I am pretty sure any actual system would get you immediately fired and your business shut down for discrimination on the basis of race.
I suspect your experience and knowledge is not as vast as you might think
In Big Sur the couple of gas stations have listed prices but locals get a discount if they are known. Even with the discount, only in emergencies will a local get gas there as it is still astronomical, but when Dave borrows your truck and returns it without enough gas to get to town, you do what you have to. Fucking Dave...
Now the tourists who fly into San Francisco or wherever and find that they need gas since there is no other gas for 70 miles on Highway 1 get to to pay the hefty amount.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 21, 2021, 10:59:10 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2021, 10:57:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 21, 2021, 10:42:01 AM
FWIW I don't think the Canadian system would be legal in Sweden.
I am trying to think how I would make that work.
I've run restaurants in tourist locations, and I've worked in them.
I mean, if my boss told me I had to make decisions on people background, how would I do that? Some people are *obviously* tourists, sure, but most tourists do not really look like tourists, and actually try pretty hard to not look overly clueless.
I suspect I would get that wrong a lot, and the very criteria CC and those who think this is how things work and should work would have to define would pretty much be completely impossible to differentiate from simple racism. I mean...if they don't speak English, should I assume they are tourists? Aren't very white looking? What exactly should I use so I can decide which price to charge them?
Would it be like a sliding scale based on how "Anglo" (or in the case of Canada/US/UK how "Not Anglo") they appeared?
Seems pretty fraught to me, but apparently CC and everyone else has this locked down.
And yeah, I am pretty sure any actual system would get you immediately fired and your business shut down for discrimination on the basis of race.
I suspect your experience and knowledge is not as vast as you might think
Hell I once went to a small restaurant in Tokyo where they didn't have prices (or menus). You just went in and the chef served you what he wanted, and then charged what he wanted. It was understood that long time regulars would pay less than others. (a local guy took me there)
The claim isn't that this sometimes happens, it is that it "almost always" happens.
So pointing out the singular times that discounts are given to locals doesn't really tell us anything other than it "sometimes" happens.
Given that I've provided counter examples where I can personally attest that this does not happen in plenty of cases, I think the claim that people routinely, in tourist locations, keep seperate prices for "Anglos" and non-Anglos, is pretty unsupported.
Hell, I get a discount at the local diner because they know me and like me and I am a regular. Has nothing to do with them charging "non-locals" 2-3 times as much as a matter of routine.
I am just glad most of the world is not as casually bigoted as apparently some places are, and am confident that I can continue to mostly successfully avoid the places that celebrate their contempt for "others".
It seems that most people have experienced locals getting better prices.
Consider for a moment that maybe your experience may not be representative of what happens in the rest of the world.
edit: your contempt for others is on full display, so yeah, best to stay where you are. I should have just come to that conclusion when Duque told you to stay away initially.
We went to Brazil 8 years ago for my brother's wedding (his wife is from there). We wound up going to several touristy areas, but more in a 'appeals to tourists from other parts of Brazil' kind of way, rather than appealing to anglos.
What we were told, and what we noticed, is that yes if you go sit down at a restaurant that has fixed prices on the menu you're going to pay those fixed prices. But a lot of shops the prices are much more negotiable, and we were told by my sister-in-law's family to always bring a family member with us to negotiate and get a better price. Whether that's a lingering resentment to tourists, or just being able to speak the language, is impossible to tell.
Quote from: Barrister on June 21, 2021, 12:47:56 PM
We went to Brazil 8 years ago for my brother's wedding (his wife is from there). We wound up going to several touristy areas, but more in a 'appeals to tourists from other parts of Brazil' kind of way, rather than appealing to anglos.
What we were told, and what we noticed, is that yes if you go sit down at a restaurant that has fixed prices on the menu you're going to pay those fixed prices. But a lot of shops the prices are much more negotiable, and we were told by my sister-in-law's family to always bring a family member with us to negotiate and get a better price. Whether that's a lingering resentment to tourists, or just being able to speak the language, is impossible to tell.
:secret:
You may be onto something.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2021, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 21, 2021, 12:47:56 PM
We went to Brazil 8 years ago for my brother's wedding (his wife is from there). We wound up going to several touristy areas, but more in a 'appeals to tourists from other parts of Brazil' kind of way, rather than appealing to anglos.
What we were told, and what we noticed, is that yes if you go sit down at a restaurant that has fixed prices on the menu you're going to pay those fixed prices. But a lot of shops the prices are much more negotiable, and we were told by my sister-in-law's family to always bring a family member with us to negotiate and get a better price. Whether that's a lingering resentment to tourists, or just being able to speak the language, is impossible to tell.
:secret:
You may be onto something.
Oh definitely. I'd say speaking the language (or making a serious effort) will reduce your chances of getting badly ripped off to nearly zero.
Making no effort to adapt to your host country will increase that chance significantly.
Quote from: Maladict on June 21, 2021, 01:23:27 PM
Oh definitely. I'd say speaking the language (or making a serious effort) will reduce your chances of getting badly ripped off to nearly zero.
Making no effort to adapt to your host country will increase that chance significantly.
Wait, talking very loudly and slowly to foreigners isn't just as good?
I've certainly come across paying more as a non-local many times while travelling. Some times it's been very explicit and posted (admission to museums in some places, for example), some times it's not super explicit but obvious, and other times it's merely been a suspicion.
But when a place caters to both locals an tourists - especially when tourists are richer by x10, x100, or more - it would be strange for there not to be price differential IMO.
Then, of course, there are places where bargaining is part of most transactions. I'm pretty confident tourists - including the ones who think they're super clever and drove a hard bargain - pay more than the locals who knows what's what.
Can't speak to real estate, though, as I've never purchased any abroad.
I'm pretty sure purchasing a broad is sort of illegal.
I've been to Jamaica three times, and come to the conclusion there are three prices. Local price, dumb tourist price, and cool tourist price. So the goal is work it down to the cool tourist price.
One American example I know if is the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. For the longest time, only people in the know (i.e. mostly locals) would know it was actually pay as you wish and could get away paying in dollars or simply change. I remember when a French tourist tried to breate all of us for standing in a line for the cashier (where it was pay as you go) vs using the automate kiosk where you had to pay the full price (I think $25 at that time).
Now it is explicitly that only for residents of New York can pay as you wish, all others pay full price.
Quote from: Jacob on June 21, 2021, 02:17:31 PM
I've certainly come across paying more as a non-local many times while travelling. Some times it's been very explicit and posted (admission to museums in some places, for example), some times it's not super explicit but obvious, and other times it's merely been a suspicion.
Mexico is very clear. The prices for the National Museum of Anthropology (best museum I've been to in the world) and the various sites like old temples have different prices for Mexicans and non-nationals. Which is fair enough, it's their national patrimony and they need to fund the upkeep/investigations.
The nearest I've had in London is that I lived in Tower Hamlets which is the borough just to the east of the City with the Tower of London and Tower Bridge. I don't know if it still exists but if you had a Tower Hamlets library card and proof of address (like a recent bill) you could get into both of those for free :lol:
Museums are different; the Louvre has free days for youths, up to 25 before now possibly 30. EU youths for sure, possibly EEA.
Some other museums have very cheap offers to attract a regular crowd of Parisians.
Not just museums, even Eurodisney used to have a price for people living in Île-de-France.