https://www.npr.org/2021/05/17/997488183/south-carolina-law-makes-death-row-inmates-pick-firing-squad-or-electric-chair?t=1621342400443
QuoteSouth Carolina Law Makes Death Row Inmates Pick: Firing Squad Or Electric Chair?
COLUMBIA, S.C. — South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster has signed into law a bill that forces death row inmates for now to choose between the electric chair or a newly formed firing squad in hopes the state can restart executions after an involuntary 10-year pause.
South Carolina had been one of the most prolific states of its size in putting inmates to death. But a lack of lethal injection drugs brought executions to a halt.
McMaster signed the bill Friday with no ceremony or fanfare, according to the state legislature's website. It's the first bill the governor decided to deal with after nearly 50 hit his desk Thursday.
"The families and loved ones of victims are owed closure and justice by law. Now, we can provide it," McMaster said on Twitter on Monday.
Last week state lawmakers gave their final sign offs to the bill, which retains lethal injection as the primary method of execution if the state has the drugs, but requires prison officials to use the electric chair or firing squad if it doesn't.
Prosecutors said three inmates have exhausted all their normal appeals, but can't be killed because under the previous law, inmates who don't choose the state's 109-year-old electric chair automatically are scheduled to die by lethal injection. They have all chosen the method that can't be carried out.
How soon executions can begin is up in the air. The electric chair is ready to use. Prison officials have been doing preliminary research into how firing squads carry out executions in other states, but are not sure how long it will take to have one in place in South Carolina. The other three states that allow a firing squad are Mississippi, Oklahoma and Utah, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.
Three inmates, all in Utah, have been killed by firing squad since the U.S. reinstated the death penalty in 1977. Nineteen inmates have died in the electric chair this century, and South Carolina is one of eight states that can still electrocute inmates, according to the center.
Lawyers for the men with potentially imminent death dates are considering suing over the new law, saying the state is going backward.
"These are execution methods that previously were replaced by lethal injection, which is considered more humane, and it makes South Carolina the only state going back to the less humane execution methods," said Lindsey Vann of Justice 360, a nonprofit that represents many of the men on South Carolina's death row.
From 1996 to 2009, South Carolina executed close to average of three inmates a year. But a lull in death row inmates reaching the end of their appeals coincided a few years later with pharmaceutical companies refusing to sell states the drugs needed to sedate inmates, relax their muscles and stop their hearts.
South Carolina's last execution took place in May 2010, and its batch of lethal injection drugs expired in 2013.
Supporters of the bill said the death penalty remains legal in South Carolina, and the state owes it to the family of the victims to find a way to carry out the punishment.
Democrats in the House suggested several changes to the bill that were not approved, including livestreaming executions on the internet and requiring lawmakers to attend executions.
"We must be willing to look at the faces of the individuals we are voting on today to kill," said Rep. Jermaine Johnson, a Democrat from Hopkins.
Opponents brought up the case of 14-year-old George Stinney, whom South Carolina sent to the electric chair in 1944 after a one-day trial in the deaths of two white girls. He was the youngest person executed in the U.S. in the 20th century. A judge threw out the Black teen's conviction in 2014.
Stinney's case is a reminder the death penalty in South Carolina has always been "racist, arbitrary, and error-prone" and continues to be, said Frank Knaack, executive director of the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union.
"In the midst of a national reckoning around systemic racism, our Governor ensured that South Carolina's death penalty — a system rooted in racial terror and lynchings — is maintained," Knaack said in a statement.
Nineteen of the 37 inmates currently on the state's death row are Black.
Seven Republicans in the House voted against the bill, most of them saying it did not make moral sense to approve sending people to their deaths, when three months ago, many of those same lawmakers approved a bill outlawing almost all abortions, saying all life is sacred.
"If you're cool with the electric chair, you might as well be cool with burning at the stake," said Rep. Jonathon Hill, a Republican from Townville.
Nice and medieval.
I think I'd go with firing squad btw.
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:01:37 AMI think I'd go with firing squad btw.
Yeah, same.
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
QuoteSouth Carolina had been one of the most prolific states of its size in putting inmates to death
i'm not even sure what that sentence means.
Quote from: celedhring on May 18, 2021, 08:17:37 AM
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
I am sure some of the people receiving this sentence will deserve to die horribly, my main concern is around the state's ability to to establish that, and more importantly giving my fellow humans the pass to send people to their deaths.
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 18, 2021, 08:17:37 AM
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
I am sure some of the people receiving this sentence will deserve to die horribly, my main concern is around the state's ability to to establish that, and more importantly giving my fellow humans the pass to send people to their deaths.
Like in this case? 4 Years After an Execution, a Different Man's DNA Is Found on the Murder Weapon (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/ledell-lee-dna-testing-arkansas.html)
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 18, 2021, 08:17:37 AM
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
I am sure some of the people receiving this sentence will deserve to die horribly, my main concern is around the state's ability to to establish that, and more importantly giving my fellow humans the pass to send people to their deaths.
That is your main concern?
Why are you so certain the people who are being killed in South Carolina "deserve" to die "horribly"?
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 18, 2021, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 18, 2021, 08:17:37 AM
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
I am sure some of the people receiving this sentence will deserve to die horribly, my main concern is around the state's ability to to establish that, and more importantly giving my fellow humans the pass to send people to their deaths.
That is your main concern?
Why are you so certain the people who are being killed in South Carolina "deserve" to die "horribly"?
Luckily that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
If that wasn't clear though, I reiterate: I am 100% against the death penalty
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 18, 2021, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 18, 2021, 08:17:37 AM
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
I am sure some of the people receiving this sentence will deserve to die horribly, my main concern is around the state's ability to to establish that, and more importantly giving my fellow humans the pass to send people to their deaths.
That is your main concern?
Why are you so certain the people who are being killed in South Carolina "deserve" to die "horribly"?
Luckily that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
If that wasn't clear though, I reiterate: I am 100% against the death penalty
There were two separate questions.
Your main concern juxtaposed to what is also your certainty that those sentenced to die deserve it.
Normally people oppose the death penalty because there is no such certainty.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 18, 2021, 08:55:14 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 18, 2021, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 18, 2021, 08:17:37 AM
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
I am sure some of the people receiving this sentence will deserve to die horribly, my main concern is around the state's ability to to establish that, and more importantly giving my fellow humans the pass to send people to their deaths.
That is your main concern?
Why are you so certain the people who are being killed in South Carolina "deserve" to die "horribly"?
Luckily that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
If that wasn't clear though, I reiterate: I am 100% against the death penalty
There were two separate questions.
Your main concern juxtaposed to what is also your certainty that those sentenced to die deserve it.
Normally people oppose the death penalty because there is no such certainty.
I wrote "some".
I understand what Tamas means: while we may think some people deserve to die, no one deserves to be an executioner.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 18, 2021, 09:13:21 AM
I understand what Tamas means: while we may think some people deserve to die, no one deserves to be an executioner.
Yeah - and that's my issue with it. I think even if we had 100% certainty it would be wrong.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 18, 2021, 09:13:21 AM
I understand what Tamas means: while we may think some people deserve to die, no one deserves to be an executioner.
Oh, I know what he meant. I was pointing out the misplaced certainty that some people deserve to die.
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 09:12:11 AM
I wrote "some".
Yes, and the question is, why do you have such certainty that some deserve to die "horrible" deaths.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 18, 2021, 09:28:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 09:12:11 AM
I wrote "some".
Yes, and the question is, why do you have such certainty that some deserve to die "horrible" deaths.
It's my personal opinion, you are welcome to disagree with it.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 18, 2021, 09:13:21 AM
I understand what Tamas means: while we may think some people deserve to die, no one deserves to be an executioner.
Yes, thank you.
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 18, 2021, 09:13:21 AM
I understand what Tamas means: while we may think some people deserve to die, no one deserves to be an executioner.
Yes, thank you.
I assume they would be volunteers, no?
I am opposed to the death penalty on the grounds that I don't want the state to have the power to judicially kill people. The argument that innocents may be executed is valid, but so is the argument that murderers who are not executed can escape or be released and kill again.
The Ledell Lee case is not a terribly good one for arguments against the death penalty. He was convicted of two sexual assaults and charged (though not convicted via hung jury) in another murder. Plus, the same DNA examination that found the other man's DNA also found it probable that the DNA in the blood taken from Lee's shoes belonged to the victim. The Lee case probably is an excellent case for arguing that blacks face disproportionate punishments for a given crime, since there seemed to be nothing in the murder he was convicted of that would really support a charge of capital murder under Arkansas law.
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 09:51:24 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 18, 2021, 09:28:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 09:12:11 AM
I wrote "some".
Yes, and the question is, why do you have such certainty that some deserve to die "horrible" deaths.
It's my personal opinion, you are welcome to disagree with it.
Sure, but the question is why do you hold that opinion.
I would pick chair over firing squad.
They are both fairly cool, it's not an easy choice for me. I have a feeling that firing squad might mean lower risk of prolonged suffering, but I don't know if that is correct. OTOH, riding the lightning.
Seems to me that it's sound for the state to be able to carry out its sentences. If the death penalty is bad then get rid of the death penalty. If it's not then find methods that actually work.
Bludgeoning with hard back copies of Tucker Carlson's best selling books ought be the preferred method for State murders.
Quote from: fromtia on May 18, 2021, 11:05:55 AM
Bludgeoning with hard back copies of Tucker Carlson's best selling books ought be the preferred method for State murders.
Or forcing the condemned to read Tucker Carlson until the condemned commits suicide. Shouldn't take more than 200 pages or so.
Maybe that's against international conventions on torture, though.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 18, 2021, 09:15:16 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 18, 2021, 09:13:21 AM
I understand what Tamas means: while we may think some people deserve to die, no one deserves to be an executioner.
Yeah - and that's my issue with it. I think even if we had 100% certainty it would be wrong.
I don't think it would be wrong, I just think it is ineffective and more trouble than it is worth.
And it makes us less humane.
But killing is not wrong, but it is almost always regrettable and to be avoided. Really, that applies to violence in general.
Firing squad seems to offer the best opportunities to traumatise your killers.
But ja. The death penalty is dumb
Quote from: Tyr on May 18, 2021, 11:19:21 AMFiring squad seems to offer the best opportunities to traumatise your killers.
IIRC in firing squads a few of the people shooting are given blanks so they might have the mental consolation of maybe not having been them the ones that actually killed the executed person.
I would rather be one guy in a firing squad of many than one guy by myself sticking poison in a dude's arm. That has got to be a creepy job.
(https://blackadderquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/looking-at-you.jpg)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 18, 2021, 11:32:10 AM
I would rather be one guy in a firing squad of many than one guy by myself sticking poison in a dude's arm. That has got to be a creepy job.
The process is a bit more complicated.
Quote from: The Larch on May 18, 2021, 11:29:49 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 18, 2021, 11:19:21 AMFiring squad seems to offer the best opportunities to traumatise your killers.
IIRC in firing squads a few of the people shooting are given blanks so they might have the mental consolation of maybe not having been them the ones that actually killed the executed person.
In East Germany, the method of execution was just one guy shooting you in the back of the head without prior warning. Not sure if that's more humane than making a big ceremony around the execution...
Of course, not executing persons at all should be what we strive for.
Quote from: Zanza on May 18, 2021, 11:55:28 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 18, 2021, 11:29:49 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 18, 2021, 11:19:21 AMFiring squad seems to offer the best opportunities to traumatise your killers.
IIRC in firing squads a few of the people shooting are given blanks so they might have the mental consolation of maybe not having been them the ones that actually killed the executed person.
In East Germany, the method of execution was just one guy shooting you in the back of the head without prior warning.
Chinese style, then. :P
The Francoist method of choice was the "garrote vil", which was a kind of strangulation that was meant to sever the spine but most of the time would end up strangling the victim.
(https://www.lavanguardia.com/files/image_449_220/uploads/2019/10/11/5fa53621c8c05.jpeg)
Sweden used guillotine the last time. It's still around, only used once!
Yeah France guillotined (as a humane and rationalist executer) until the late 70s.
After getting rid of the various vestigal medieval methods during the 19th century it was always hanging in the UK.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 18, 2021, 12:14:03 PM
Yeah France guillotined (as a humane and rationalist executer) until the late 70s.
After getting rid of the various vestigal medieval methods during the 19th century it was always hanging in the UK.
Yeah we famously hanged the Nazi war criminals after WWII. Not sure who the last person the US hanged was.
Quote from: Zanza on May 18, 2021, 11:55:28 AM
In East Germany, the method of execution was just one guy shooting you in the back of the head without prior warning. Not sure if that's more humane than making a big ceremony around the execution...
That was a Soviet thing, right? I remember seeing a Soviet execution when I was a kid (it was on the news).
Yeah that was kind of their calling card.
So this is not an option? :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLctf4o6feQ
Death by snu snu!
Quote from: HVC on May 18, 2021, 08:28:16 AM
QuoteSouth Carolina had been one of the most prolific states of its size in putting inmates to death
i'm not even sure what that sentence means.
it means they send a lot of people to death proportionate to their population.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 18, 2021, 09:13:21 AM
I understand what Tamas means: while we may think some people deserve to die, no one deserves to be an executioner.
even in your wildest dreams, you never thought once of strangling to death the likes of Tucker Carlson or Jeff Fillion? Not even a pass for Marjorie Taylor Green? You sure show some restraint! :P
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 18, 2021, 09:28:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 18, 2021, 09:12:11 AM
I wrote "some".
Yes, and the question is, why do you have such certainty that some deserve to die "horrible" deaths.
generally speaking, because some serial killers would have confessed to their crimes, or be found guilty beyond any reasonable doubts with real clear evidence, not just circumstancial evidence based on a witness who thinks all black men not only look alike but are all killers in waiting anyway.
I can think of some criminals in Canada who may have deserved the death penalty. But I still don't support it, like Thamas, for other reasons.
In related news....
QuoteArizona Prepares to Use Auschwitz Gas Zyklon B on Death Row Inmates
https://www.newsweek.com/auschwitz-gas-zyklon-b-arizona-death-row-inmates-1596402
That will own the Libs for sure. BASF might have some left over cannisters laying around Arizona can use.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 01:04:06 PM
That will own the Libs for sure. BASF might have some left over cannisters laying around Arizona can use.
Pretty sure they wouldn't be permitted to export it for that purpose. :P
Quote from: celedhring on May 18, 2021, 08:17:37 AM
Both seem horrible ways to die :glare:
Better than the cancer etc. that most of us face.
A lot of people are under delusions that natural deaths like heart attacks aren't so bad. In some cases, that may be true. But I've seen people having heart attacks desperately fighting for breath as their lungs fill with fluid. Doesn't seem especially pleasant.
if you're going to gas deathrow inmates why not use CO2?
Quote from: Zanza on June 01, 2021, 12:59:04 PM
In related news....
QuoteArizona Prepares to Use Auschwitz Gas Zyklon B on Death Row Inmates
https://www.newsweek.com/auschwitz-gas-zyklon-b-arizona-death-row-inmates-1596402
See, this article is just scaremongering.
Zyclon-B was just the trade name of hydrogen cyanide. It's an incredibly basic molecule, comprised of a hydrogen, a carbon, and a nitrogen atom.
Whether or not it is a humane and effective chemical to use in executions is one thing. But to immediately link it to the holocaust is like saying that bullets are the same method of killing people as the nazis used.
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
The Nazis were also made up of hydrogen, carbon and oxygen atoms. Don't understand why people get into such a twist about them - atomically-speaking they were pretty much the same as anyone else.
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Gas chamber has been a pretty normal method of execution.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Gas chamber has been a pretty normal method of execution.
I hear it has been used millions of times.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Gas chamber has been a pretty normal method of execution.
What Yi said. Gas chamber has been used in the US for a long time. Quick googling suggests it was first used in 1924.
You can criticize the method all you want - it's not a subject I'm super familiar with. But I don't think you need to bring the Nazis into it - nor the name Zyklon B. Because unlike the Nazis the US is only using it after a full judicial process with various rights of appeal - not to indiscriminately murder people because of their religion or ethnic background.
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Nah, there must have been a lot of countries that gassed people to death with hydrogen cyanide besides the Nazis. And I'm sure Beeb is going to list them to prove his point that doing so is no big deal, even for the Nazis.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Gas chamber has been a pretty normal method of execution.
Not in the US. It's ben 22 years since the gas chamber was used in the US, and the USSC has made the restrictions on it use "humanely" so onerous that no state nor the federal government has been willing to try to meet them. I doubt that Arizona will, either. This is just red meat for the republican base.
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
The Nazis also hanged people with piano wire. Will you draw parallels with the Nazis if South Carolina implements that method of execution? What cool methods of execution are left to the South Carolinians?
Quote from: grumbler on June 01, 2021, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Gas chamber has been a pretty normal method of execution.
Not in the US. It's ben 22 years since the gas chamber was used in the US, and the USSC has made the restrictions on it use "humanely" so onerous that no state nor the federal government has been willing to try to meet them. I doubt that Arizona will, either. This is just red meat for the republican base.
Completely pointless culture war laws are the new blue laws.
Take your politics out of my death penalty.
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2021, 02:23:17 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 01, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Beeb.
They're gassing people. It is completely appropriate to draw parallels to the Nazis.
Gas chamber has been a pretty normal method of execution.
What Yi said. Gas chamber has been used in the US for a long time. Quick googling suggests it was first used in 1924.
You can criticize the method all you want - it's not a subject I'm super familiar with. But I don't think you need to bring the Nazis into it - nor the name Zyklon B. Because unlike the Nazis the US is only using it after a full judicial process with various rights of appeal - not to indiscriminately murder people because of their religion or ethnic background.
The swastika was used innocuously for thousands of years, and now, in the West at least, it cannot be used innocuously.
Sometimes, perception IS everything.
:yes: Being a vegetarian is social suicide in the West.