Poll
Question:
Is this VW ad racist?
Option 1: Yes, it is racist.
votes: 3
Option 2: Not, it is not racist.
votes: 8
Volkswagen apologized for this ad after criticism that it was racist:
https://youtu.be/CBTs67Oh1MI
(9 seconds long)
I've seen very mixed opinions on this; not just from the usual suspects, but from all over, so I turn to trusty Languish to see what the general opinion of this esteemed crowd is. :)
I don't get it. Why are the big hands pushing him away? Was he trying to jack the car?
Why is it said to be racist?
The video is kind of bad quality but I think the little guy is black?
...yeah no. His role there is just as a guy pretending to be flicked around.
I don't even know what that ad is supposed to mean. If it's just because it's a white woman's hand manhandling a black dude, I don't think that's enough to be racist.
Not really sure what happened, or why it would be considered racist. So voted no.
Yeah, nobody really know what the ad is meant to convey. The black guy being flicked around by a large white hand is part of the controversy.
Another part of the controversy in the German language areas is this frame when the letters of the slogan blink into existence:
(https://i.postimg.cc/4NCmVmsq/v.jpg)
Neger being the German word for negro and not acceptable anymore. (It can also be used as derogatory slang for manservant - "Ich bin nicht dein Neger" - I'm not your negro [servant])
I guess it depends on what this ad was trying to convey. Speaking of that, what the fuck was it trying to convey?
It doesn't strike me as racist, but I have no clue what the hell it's trying to say, so it may be.
The combination of the German letters and the images makes it feel pretty racist.
But, yeah I don't get it.
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2020, 04:31:38 AM
Yeah, nobody really know what the ad is meant to convey. The black guy being flicked around by a large white hand is part of the controversy.
Another part of the controversy in the German language areas is this frame when the letters of the slogan blink into existence:
(https://i.postimg.cc/4NCmVmsq/v.jpg)
Neger being the German word for negro and not acceptable anymore. (It can also be used as derogatory slang for manservant - "Ich bin nicht dein Neger" - I'm not your negro [servant])
Yeah, this feels far more intentional.
The BBC also points out that the cafe name, "petit colon", means little colonist. "Colons" was an alternative name to "pieds-noirs" for the French colonists in Algeria.
The ad may be attempting to be "edgy" by skirting racist themes.....I think most of us are bored by that sort of bs these days.
It also means the Small intestine.
I don't think it's racist but It doesn't ring any of the regular racist bells of the anglo-saxon world so I don't know.
The lettering makes it look bad. Just imagine if it was an English language ad and for a split second they plastered the n-word all over the screen. There's a choice being made of having these letters appear first, particularly when a black man appears in the ad.
That said, it might just be the case of a GFX artist being "lulz I'm edgy" as opposed to the organization as a whole.
Quote from: celedhring on May 21, 2020, 06:07:23 AM
The lettering makes it look bad. Just imagine if it was an English language ad and for a split second they plastered the n-word all over the screen. There's a choice being made of choosing these letters to appear first.
"ERNEG"?
You left off the L.
Otoh, it feels like they lingered longer than expected with those letters displayed.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 21, 2020, 06:02:33 AM
It also means the Small intestine.
I don't think it's racist but It doesn't ring any of the regular racist bells of the anglo-saxon world so I don't know.
Wrong for the first, it's côlon but maybe right for the second.
Richard
Colons is pretty generic, just settlers.
Colon, singular, is also short for colonel.
As for the picture, it's not the usual reading order and that's leaving the L. Says a lot about those who claim it is Neger with selective freeze framing. It's very close to misconstrued.
PS: I thought Neger in German as closer to nigger (really offensive) than negro (old-fashioned and less offensive), actually.
Are you seriously arguing that capital letters should have the ô ?
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 21, 2020, 07:42:34 AM
Are you seriously arguing that capital letters should have the ô ?
Not just the ^, chillax.
:secret:
Facilitates reading, removes ambiguity (see above) and is actually a recommendation of the Académie française. :frog:
Many languages do it, including some closely related to French.
Yeah, Spanish does it.
Why is Volkswagen running a 9-second ad? Or, of the ad is more than 9 seconds long, why are we not seeing the whole ad so the 9-second part is shown in a context?
The 9 seconds shown could, I suppose, have racist connotations, but it's hard to tell. I do find it suspicious that the ad even features a black man, given that they make up less than 1 percent of the country's population. Not much of a market, nor very representative.
Quote from: grumbler on May 21, 2020, 08:05:11 AM
Why is Volkswagen running a 9-second ad? Or, of the ad is more than 9 seconds long, why are we not seeing the whole ad so the 9-second part is shown in a context?
I think it was an Instagram story. So short content.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2020, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 21, 2020, 07:42:34 AM
Are you seriously arguing that capital letters should have the ô ?
Not just the ^, chillax.
:secret:
Facilitates reading, removes ambiguity (see above) and is actually a recommendation of the Académie française. :frog:
Many languages do it, including some closely related to French.
I agree.
I am surprised. Very.
Quote from: grumbler on May 21, 2020, 08:05:11 AM
Why is Volkswagen running a 9-second ad? Or, of the ad is more than 9 seconds long, why are we not seeing the whole ad so the 9-second part is shown in a context?
The 9 seconds shown could, I suppose, have racist connotations, but it's hard to tell. I do find it suspicious that the ad even features a black man, given that they make up less than 1 percent of the country's population. Not much of a market, nor very representative.
Blacks are quite well represented in German media as footballers, singers, TV presenters, or actors. For a while probably better than Turkish immigrants. The community is still suffering from racism, however.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2020, 07:00:23 AM
PS: I thought Neger in German as closer to nigger (really offensive) than negro (old-fashioned and less offensive), actually.
These days yes (though a German trying to be offensive would probably go with the English variant today), but up till the 70s or 80s it would still show up casually in movies or TV shows.
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2020, 09:27:25 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2020, 07:00:23 AM
PS: I thought Neger in German as closer to nigger (really offensive) than negro (old-fashioned and less offensive), actually.
These days yes (though a German trying to be offensive would probably go with the English variant today), but up till the 70s or 80s it would still show up casually in movies or TV shows.
So basically like nègre in French. Still potentially insulting, but claimed back by black intellectuals such as Senghor or Aimé Césaire.Old people sometimes use nègre in a neutral way, which shocks younger generations.
Négro being undoubtedly a racist insult, except among hip hop fans such as wiggers, but not just them.
Negro is neutral in Portugal and preferred to preto, coloquial.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 21, 2020, 08:11:27 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2020, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 21, 2020, 07:42:34 AM
Are you seriously arguing that capital letters should have the ô ?
Not just the ^, chillax.
:secret:
Facilitates reading, removes ambiguity (see above) and is actually a recommendation of the Académie française. :frog:
Many languages do it, including some closely related to French.
I agree.
I am surprised. Very.
:console:
Quote from: celedhring on May 21, 2020, 06:07:23 AM
The lettering makes it look bad. Just imagine if it was an English language ad and for a split second they plastered the n-word all over the screen. There's a choice being made of having these letters appear first, particularly when a black man appears in the ad.
You got to pause and go slo-mo to really see these letters appear first, otherwise, all I see first is GE than the rest flashes into existance.[/quote]
Quote
That said, it might just be the case of a GFX artist being "lulz I'm edgy" as opposed to the organization as a whole.
I couldn't be sure it was a black man until you guys pointed it out.
But I still don't get the meaning of the ad. An ad is supposed to convey something. And they push the black man inside the cafe "Petit colon" (nope GF, they likely didn't mean the intestine :P )... Maybe the artist is trying to voice his opinion that blacks&foreigners are colonizing Germany? Or that the car will serve you the way a "nigger" should be serving you?
That's still far fetched.
In any case, graphic artist's edgyness aside, I can't get any Volkswagen related&meaningfull message here.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2020, 09:52:18 AM
So basically like nègre in French. Still potentially insulting, but claimed back by black intellectuals such as Senghor or Aimé Césaire.Old people sometimes use nègre in a neutral way, which shocks younger generations.
Négro being undoubtedly a racist insult, except among hip hop fans such as wiggers, but not just them.
Negro is neutral in Portugal and preferred to preto, coloquial.
Nègre is definately insulting. Even saying "travailler comme un nègre" (working like a nigger, meaning working very hard) will land you in some serious trouble with the pc police.
Négro is potentially insulting, well, it is used as insult today, but it wasn't up to the '60s. Simply referring to the skin colour. I'm guessing it was adapted from the Portuguese word, since they were the first to bring black slaves from Africa in Europe.
Latin niger = black, so quite a respectable derivation. Racism made the word insulting so now we use other terms which, with racism persisting, will become perjorative in their turn :(
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2020, 10:39:57 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2020, 09:52:18 AM
So basically like nègre in French. Still potentially insulting, but claimed back by black intellectuals such as Senghor or Aimé Césaire.Old people sometimes use nègre in a neutral way, which shocks younger generations.
Négro being undoubtedly a racist insult, except among hip hop fans such as wiggers, but not just them.
Negro is neutral in Portugal and preferred to preto, coloquial.
Nègre is definately insulting. Even saying "travailler comme un nègre" (working like a nigger, meaning working very hard) will land you in some serious trouble with the pc police.
Négro is potentially insulting, well, it is used as insult today, but it wasn't up to the '60s. Simply referring to the skin colour. I'm guessing it was adapted from the Portuguese word, since they were the first to bring black slaves from Africa in Europe.
I have heard blacks claiming back nègre for themselves so things may be different over there. Most of the times it's insulting, specially by a white person( PC rules) however.
Even nègre, as ghostwriter can get you into trouble. This comes actually from Alexandre Dumas who had several hard-working "collaborators" with him. Hence the famous quote:
Dumas le premier mulâtre à avoir des nègres blancs.
As for the Portuguese the first bringing black slaves to Europe, that's a no. The mediterranean oriental slave trade predates the Portuguese. Even the Portuguese had to get slaves with it in the early discovery and colonisation phase for Madeira i.e 1425, predating the recorded beginning of the trade i.e 1441.
Med ports had black slaves before 1441, due to their trade connections.
First captives of 1441, were Moors actually, North Africans, not (black) Africans).
The Portuguese however initiated in a small scale the Atlantic slave trade, no question about that.
As for the etymology of négro, tlfi disagrees with you, without really settling the argument.
NÉGRO, subst. masc.
Péj. Synon. fam. de nègre. Chapalangarra, qui est un négro comme Mina, et réfugié comme lui dans votre pays (MÉRIMÉE, Carmen, 1845, p.37). Le négro paraît dans l'entrée et commence sa complainte. Ali, se réveillant, d'une voix énorme. Veux-tu te sauver! sale négro! bête à poux! eh, cul noir! (LENORMAND, Simoun, 1921, 2e tabl., p.6).
Prononc. et Orth.: []. Au plur. des négros. Étymol. et Hist. 1845 (MÉRIMÉE, loc. cit.). Mot esp., empr. une 1re fois par le fr. nègre*.
Rem. Nègre, employé en parlant des pers. a eu des connotations péj. et, à ce titre, s'est trouvé concurrencé par noir qui est moins marqué (voir HUGO, loc. cit.). Actuellement nègre semble en voie de perdre ce caractère péj., probablement en raison de la valorisation des cultures du monde noir (v. négritude). Et comme le mot soleil est un claquement de balles / et comme le mot nuit un taffetas qu'on déchire / le mot nègre / dru savez-vous / du tonnerre d'un été / que s'arrogent / des libertés incrédules (CÉSAIRE, Corps perdu ds Aimé Césaire, Paris, Seghers, 1979 [1949], p.138). Je ne voulais pas être le plus grand des nègres qui ait jamais vécu, pas plus Toussaint Louverture que Walter White. Parce que, tout au fond de moi, là où les Blancs ne peuvent pas regarder, ça n'avait plus de signification (Ch.HIMES, S'il braille, lâche-le..., trad. de l'angl. par R. Vavasseur et M.Duhamel, Paris, Gallimard, 1972, p.235).