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Mostly useless poll to assuage my curiosity after reading about the B&N plan.

Whenever I am in Quebec or in France, I buy mostly from independent book stores, because they are easy to find. In the US, I unfortunately have to buy from Amazon, because campus bookstores have been transformed into B&N outlets, and are therefore useless as bookstores, operating mostly to sell college merchandise.

Also, do you miss it - or you just don't see the appeal?

What's the B&N plan?  I've got some gift cards.

2 with a bit of 1 and 5.

I buy at Waterstones and also Foyles which is a mini chain in London. Though I only use the main Foyles store, which used to be famous for how labyrinthine it was and entirely staffed by subject-area experts who were affronted at anyone with less than impeccable knowledge - it's now moved into a gleaming new location down the road and the staff are still incredible, but now (mainly) polite.

Waterstones have had a very successful change in strategy by the former head of Daunt Books, it basically put local managers and staff very much in charge. The theory was that if they centrally allocated books like Borders, they would eventually go the way of Borders. So as local staff should know what local people want, they're in charge of ordering and displays and limited promotions etc. It seems to have worked really well in the Waterstones I visit and I think they're doing well as a company which is nice.

I also go to a few local/independent bookstores like Gay's the Word and the European Bookstore.

And at my local Saturday farmer's market there's a couple of niche publishers who I also frequent - they specialise in translations of new European literary fiction. It paid off for them in a big way when Olga Tokarczuk won the Nobel prize as, I think, they were her UK translater :o

But they often have interesting stuff I wouldn't see otherwise - also there's a couple of small poetry publishers I buy direct from.

Foyles is owned by Waterstones.

Mostly Amazon for regular books, and a Swedish big online store for Swedish books. I buy some (but not all) niche books (roleplaying games and similar) at a local brick and mortar nerd store.

One model of bookshop I'd like in the UK was what I recently saw on the Japanese news channel, an item about Madrid and they walked through a 2nd hand bookshop that charge for books by their total weight.

I've mostly stopped buying any new books in the last few years because I eventually would be at risk of suffocation if one of the piles of them I have around the house collapsed on me.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 04:24:17 PM
What's the B&N plan?  I've got some gift cards.

Quote from: Sheilbha very successful change in strategy by the former head of Daunt Books, it basically put local managers and staff very much in charge. The theory was that if they centrally allocated books like Borders, they would eventually go the way of Borders. So as local staff should know what local people want, they're in charge of ordering and displays and limited promotions etc. It seems to have worked really well in the Waterstones I visit and I think they're doing well as a company which is nice.

Former head of Daunt Books, now former head of Waterstones, is now current head of B&N.

Great.  Now I can choose from 6,000 titles on University of Iowa football and wrestling.

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 10, 2020, 04:29:22 PMThough I only use the main Foyles store, which used to be famous for how labyrinthine it was and entirely staffed by subject-area experts who were affronted at anyone with less than impeccable knowledge - it's now moved into a gleaming new location down the road and the staff are still incredible, but now (mainly) polite.

Yes, I kind of miss the old store. I still have the "Bugger Borders" pin they used to sell then. You can go at the café upstairs if you want to reminisce about rude staff.  :D

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 04:44:20 PM
Great.  Now I can choose from 6,000 titles on University of Iowa football and wrestling.

I suppose you'll have to get your scented candles, party games and lego toys elsewhere.  :(

I visited Whitby lately.
A wonderful town that holds many lovely childhood memories. A big part of these memories was its great collection of second hand book shops.
They... Are all gone.
The town in general has sold out a lot but this part was particularly sad.

Elsewhere it's the same. Everywhere I remember there being a second hand book shop they're gone.

The only nice experience I've had in this regard was Robin Hood's Bay where one remains.

I love exploring such shops but they're a dying breed. My book buying is largely on amazon these days.

Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2020, 04:48:21 PM
I suppose you'll have to get your scented candles, party games and lego toys elsewhere.  :(

:o Punked!

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 04:49:50 PM
:o Punked!

:cheers:

Quote from: garbon on March 10, 2020, 04:33:49 PM
Foyles is owned by Waterstones.

:o Explains the weird semi-chainisation.

QuoteI love exploring such shops but they're a dying breed. My book buying is largely on amazon these days.

Weirdly the village my mum and dad live in, which has one Londis and one pub also has a second hand book shop. Apparently abebooks and a side-hustle in antiquarian books keeps them going, because I've never seen anyone in there (except for me :blush:).

I prefer electronic versions of books as that way I can carry all my books with me wherever I go.  And it always remembers my place.

I'm old enough to remember when Barnes & Noble was just 2 stores in Manhattan - the big main store on 5th Avenue and an annex.  That was a great store - a destination it itself.  That store was closed a few years ago.  "B&N" was just a leverage of the brand name applied to various acquisitions (BDalton etc) and expansion initiatives to malls and campuses. I remember the first time I went into an ersatz Barnes & Noble and was disappointed how little it resembled the real thing.

The town I live in now had an independent bookstore - I did shop at that one. It survived the competition from the B&Ns and Amazons of the world, but it couldn't survive a big rent increase from the landlord.

I live in Portland, home of Powell's Books. ^_^

https://www.powells.com/ (https://www.powells.com/)

There were three great independent book stores within 2 blocks of my office in the 90s.  I used to spend way too much time going to each of them and buying arm fulls of books.  The staff in those stores were super helpful and knowledgeable.  They always suggested additional titles/authors I would like and they were almost always right.  Those stores all went bankrupt in the 2000s.  I then went to Indigo/Chapters - they tried but it was not the same.  Now those stores have largely disappeared and I buy electronic books.

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 10, 2020, 05:07:22 PM

Quote from: garbon on March 10, 2020, 04:33:49 PM
Foyles is owned by Waterstones.

:o Explains the weird semi-chainisation.

QuoteI love exploring such shops but they're a dying breed. My book buying is largely on amazon these days.

Weirdly the village my mum and dad live in, which has one Londis and one pub also has a second hand book shop. Apparently abebooks and a side-hustle in antiquarian books keeps them going, because I've never seen anyone in there (except for me :blush:).

Yes, I was quite sad when I learned it had been purchased. Sale to Waterstones happened in 2018.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 05:10:18 PM
I prefer electronic versions of books as that way I can carry all my books with me wherever I go.  And it always remembers my place.

Same, but also this means that I can store all my books in my tiny house.

I only read books on my Kindle now.  Physical books are for old people. :sleep:

Real books rule. Fucking millenials.

Ok boomer.

I don't read many books on dead trees but when I do, I get them from the library or Costco.

Mostly Amazon. However, I've recently started getting books just from the library, and only buying those with a long waitlist or that are unavailable.

I miss the Tattered Cover

Quote from: Caliga on March 10, 2020, 05:28:39 PM
I only read books on my Kindle now.  Physical books are for old people. :sleep:

Young folk are least likely to buy e-books (publishers put in an effort nowadays so physical books look nice + a Kindle isn't as instagrammable) :console:

I have a Kindle which I use for some books so have a mix. There's no need to be absolutist about either.

Mostly my on my Kindle.  There aren't exactly many independent book stores in town.  There's a local place that sells books and toys, a place that sells religious tracts, and a place that sells comic books.  That's pretty much it.

I marked that I buy at chains, but that really applied to when I lived in NC.  There aren't any chains located out here in rural Indiana, and I guess if I want to buy any new books now I'll have to drive about 30 miles (there is a local used book store I need to check out).

I haven't lived anywhere that had a decent bookstore (at least for new books) in a long time. 

I don't think I've ever bought a book on-line.

Quote from: Grey Fox on March 10, 2020, 05:50:00 PM
I don't read many books on dead trees but when I do, I get them from ...Costco.

:ultra: :ultra:

Quote from: Tyr on March 10, 2020, 04:48:59 PM
I visited Whitby lately.
A wonderful town that holds many lovely childhood memories. A big part of these memories was its great collection of second hand book shops.
They... Are all gone.

No way, I loved those shops when I visited.

I try to buy online as little as possible. Luckily there are a couple of good bookstores in town, even if their (English language) selection is a bit limited. Otherwise I enjoy visiting Waterstones in Amsterdam and going on a buying spree abroad.

I have very fond memories of going to bookstores, browsing, finding new stuff.

But then the Internet has been invented.

You guys sticking to print books is like people shunning the printing press and keeping to hand-written books. I am sure there was a lot of them at first.

I know an LCD is not the same thing, but an e-ink screen is.

I have now most of my library in my pocket at all times. I can resume reading on a different device at my whim. I can highlight, I can check a word in a dictionary by a single tap. Etc.

I can get bloody samples to make an informed purchase decision.

Not to mention there's no need to kill trees and make ink, binding material, carry the book to the store, maintain the store etc.

Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2020, 09:40:37 PM

Quote from: Grey Fox on March 10, 2020, 05:50:00 PM
I don't read many books on dead trees but when I do, I get them from ...Costco.

:ultra: :ultra:

Fabreville isn't exactly full of bookstores, independent or Renaud Bray.

I do miss it, but no opportunity to do otherwise but use Amazon.

If I lived near a good bookstore, I'd go there.

Traditional bookstores have largely disappeared in Hong Kong.  No way a bookstore can afford the rent.  Most landlords are much better off renting to stores that cater to Mainland tourists.

The remaining bookstores fall into these categories -

1. Bookstore in name only; small-scale department store in reality.  This is popularised by the Taiwanese.  Basically, they brand themselves as bookstores, but only around 30-40% of the store area really sells books.  The books tend to be travel guides and other picture heavy stuff.  The rest of the store is further rented out to all kinds of stuff, from bread shops, vegetable shops, optical shops, to electronics, clothes, you name it.  The shops the bookstore chooses tend to be better quality, more stylish, and slightly less mainstream. 

2. Bookstores directly owned and operated by Beijing's Liaison Office in Hong Kong.  Strangely they do sell anti-Beijing books.  But in small quantities and variety.  Overall they tend to sell Mainland books.

3. Tiny niche operations in hard to reach places where the rent is low enough. 

I live literally a stone's throw from a decent to good chain bookstore, so I mainly buy my books from them.

There's been quite a flourish of very small used book shops lately, and sometimes I browse their shelves for books in editions I like.

I have a Kindle, and use it a lot, but mainly for reading in english, and mainly for SF/fantasy works, that are often a bit easier for the language.

Sometimes I order books from Amazon, if I'm looking for something the physical bookshop doesn't keep in inventory.

L.

I tend to go to a bookstore, cause I like browsing; but independents are hard to find. I tend to go to an outlet here called Indigo.

I like browsing in bookstores, but there's few worth browsing. However, these days I prefer ebooks for fiction, and physical for non-fiction. Unfortunately, non-fiction sections tend to be not that great in shops.

Oh, and I forgot I use the network of public libraries A LOT.

Even nearer than the bookshop I have the public library main branch, that's perfect for fiction books and local history; and then, there are all the college libraries that, for a lifetime signing fee of 1 euro, offer complete and free access to all uni resources and books.

L.

There used to be a great independent bookstore at the end of my street! It had an extensive history section - I bought most of my books from them.

They disappeared, to be replaced with a nail salon. There are now no less than six nail salons within three blocks of my house.

Why oh why can't people launder their money through bookstores?  :(

Anyway, now I mostly order books online.

Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2020, 06:51:50 AM
Unfortunately, non-fiction sections tend to be not that great in shops.

I find most book stores are more than happy to order any book you want. I sometimes browse Amazon for ideas and then order at my local bookstore.

Quote from: Maladict on March 11, 2020, 08:46:03 AM

I find most book stores are more than happy to order any book you want.

This has been my experience as well.

Yeah, but I might also just order from Amazon and have it delivered to where I like. :hmm:

Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2020, 08:48:59 AM
Yeah, but I might also just order from Amazon and have it delivered to where I like. :hmm:

That's far less carbon footprint than mucking about trying to keep obsolete little businesses alive, though. :P

Quote from: Tamas on March 11, 2020, 10:50:33 AM

Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2020, 08:48:59 AM
Yeah, but I might also just order from Amazon and have it delivered to where I like. :hmm:

That's far less carbon footprint than mucking about trying to keep obsolete little businesses alive, though. :P

It's far more, actually.

I haven't bought a physical copy of a book in years. I download them now. Even then my reading went way down when I started working at a printing company.

Quote from: Grey Fox on March 11, 2020, 06:24:21 AM

Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2020, 09:40:37 PM

Quote from: Grey Fox on March 10, 2020, 05:50:00 PM
I don't read many books on dead trees but when I do, I get them from ...Costco.

:ultra: :ultra:

Fabreville isn't exactly full of bookstores, independent or Renaud Bray.

Il y a un Renaud Bray juste de l'autre côté de la 440 quand tu vas au Costco...

Quote from: The Larch on March 10, 2020, 04:41:41 PM
I've mostly stopped buying any new books in the last few years because I eventually would be at risk of suffocation if one of the piles of them I have around the house collapsed on me.

Same, I decided to read the books I have before buying new ones (other than technical books.)  It wasn't so bad until CB and I merged our collections; now our home looks like the reading room of an eccentric museum.

For anyone who still loves the public library, check out the Libby App (not sure if it's available outside the United States).  You can browse your local libraries collection, put holds and download e-books/audiobooks for loan.

My public library is moving into the old post office next week. Definitely a reason for going, it's even on my route to work.

(https://erfgoedstem.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/biebopneude.png)

I just can't make the digital book transition. The idea of paying exactly the same price but not getting the same product just sits uneasy with me. I like owning a thing.
And the bath is a top reading location.

Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2020, 12:41:44 PM
exactly the same price

Checking prices - you are doing it wrong :P

Quote from: Tamas on March 11, 2020, 01:20:29 PM

Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2020, 12:41:44 PM
exactly the same price

Checking prices - you are doing it wrong :P

Either that or he found a store willing to match the digital price.

Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2020, 08:48:59 AM
Yeah, but I might also just order from Amazon and have it delivered to where I like. :hmm:

I actually prefer to pick stuff up at the store if possible.  Deliverymen nowadays don't get you to sign for your order;  they just leave it laying on your front porch in the rain.

That's why I have stuff send to the office instead. Or a 24/7 postal pickup place which is 5 minutes from my place. :)

I switched entirely to digital back when I was a hermit moving around frequently and living overseas. I don't regret it. The Kindle has many advantages, but one of the biggest in my opinion is not only the ability to carry multiple books around with you wherever you go, but also the fact that you have a built-in-ligh25OFFt so that you can read virtually anywhere without straining your eyes or needing a lamp.

Quote from: Camerus on March 11, 2020, 04:13:22 PM
I switched entirely to digital back when I was a hermit moving around frequently and living overseas. I don't regret it. The Kindle has many advantages, but one of the biggest in my opinion is not only the ability to carry multiple books around with you wherever you go, but also the fact that you have a built-in-ligh25OFFt so that you can read virtually anywhere without straining your eyes or needing a lamp.

:yes:

Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2020, 04:19:36 PM
Mostly useless poll to assuage my curiosity after reading about the B&N plan.

Whenever I am in Quebec or in France, I buy mostly from independent book stores, because they are easy to find. In the US, I unfortunately have to buy from Amazon, because campus bookstores have been transformed into B&N outlets, and are therefore useless as bookstores, operating mostly to sell college merchandise.

I read mostly in english.  My local library does not have anything in english.  It does not even have a sci-fi/fantasy section in French, except for some of the most very recent books of big franchises.  Say I wanted to buy today The Lord of the Rings in french, they don't have it.  Ordering it from them would take 4-6 weeks.  So I use Archambault.ca or Renaud-Bray.ca for my reading needs in French.  Amazon for the english stuff.  There used to be an english library in Quebec city, but it has still long disapeared.  L'Imaginaire in Place Laurier does carry a few english novels, but not much.

In as much as finance and economy are concerned, my local library does not have any real scientific books, only the most popular book of the moment which may or may not be written by a field specialist.  That'd be like reading a treatise on 17th-18th century naval warfare written by Ph. D in physics.  Could be interesting, but I'd prefer something you wrote ;)

Quote from: Camerus on March 11, 2020, 04:13:22 PM
I switched entirely to digital back when I was a hermit moving around frequently and living overseas. I don't regret it. The Kindle has many advantages, but one of the biggest in my opinion is not only the ability to carry multiple books around with you wherever you go, but also the fact that you have a built-in-ligh25OFFt so that you can read virtually anywhere without straining your eyes or needing a lamp.

I'm still having a problem with digital book reading.  I can not get as invested in the story than if I read it on paper.  That's really weird.  I'm used to reading news and financial information on my phone/tablet, but books?  Can't get into it.

I have emailed Gay's the Word tonight as they don't have an online store asking if I can order books for delivery - every little helps, maybe? :mellow:

Quote from: Tamas on March 11, 2020, 06:22:36 AM
But then the Internet has been invented.
You guys sticking to print books is like people shunning the printing press and keeping to hand-written books. I am sure there was a lot of them at first.
I know an LCD is not the same thing, but an e-ink screen is.
I have now most of my library in my pocket at all times. I can resume reading on a different device at my whim. I can highlight, I can check a word in a dictionary by a single tap. Etc.
I can get bloody samples to make an informed purchase decision.
Not to mention there's no need to kill trees and make ink, binding material, carry the book to the store, maintain the store etc.

I knew someone was bound to pick up the mantle of progress vs luddism.  :lol:

As you can perhaps note in the thread, no one who's expressed support for local independent bookstore has done so on the basis of some sort of posh superiority of paper over e-ink. I actually like the look and feel of e-ink, and if most of what I read was English-language mass market fiction, I'd probably have done a more systematic switch to it. But unfortunately, a lot of the professional books/French-language books I read do not have an ebook versions; for those that do, I find, weirdly enough, that I can take better notes by writing in the margins than by adding digital notes. Not to mention that I do not like the idea of all that work being lost at the flick of a switch by some sillicon valley egomaniac. (as for the carbon footprint, I am pretty sure the environmental cost of the electronics trade, and the energy required to maintain Amazon's servers already dwarf the requirements of the publishing business...)

What I deplore is the loss of actual bookshops, as places of discovery and exchange, and yes, some romantic mystique. It's not tied to the paper, but the place. I wouldn't really weep for the demise of big book chains: they have ceased being such places for a while now, and I suppose if the only use you have for a bookshop is to pick up a book you've already decided to read, then it doesn't really matter. But my usual librarians in Montreal usually put stuff aside for me that they think I'll like; I have discovered writers in small town bookshops in France I would never have dared pick up otherwise, from public events and readings.

Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2020, 07:01:36 PM

What I deplore is the loss of actual bookshops, as places of discovery and exchange, and yes, some romantic mystique. It's not tied to the paper, but the place.

This. Same thing with having books on shelves at home. They just have to be there, even if the books have been read and will not be opened again.

Quote from: Tamas on March 11, 2020, 01:20:29 PM

Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2020, 12:41:44 PM
exactly the same price

Checking prices - you are doing it wrong :P

Where?
Usually they do tend to have around the same price. Sometimes digital is even more expensive (!!).

In time I guess this will change. Once upon a time it was attempted to make digital music the same price as physical releases. But it isn't there yet. And you've always the counter example of games.

Quote from: Tyr on March 17, 2020, 06:21:55 AM

Quote from: Tamas on March 11, 2020, 01:20:29 PM

Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2020, 12:41:44 PM
exactly the same price

Checking prices - you are doing it wrong :P

Where?
Usually they do tend to have around the same price. Sometimes digital is even more expensive (!!).

In time I guess this will change. Once upon a time it was attempted to make digital music the same price as physical releases. But it isn't there yet. And you've always the counter example of games.

You should probably shop for your ebooks somewhere other than you are (or else tell us about this fabulous place that sells physical books for the same price as ebooks).  Either you are getting ripped off on ebooks, or we are on physical books.

The last physical book I bought was in an independent bookstore in Placerville (Hangtown, California). The Innocent's Abroad. 1940 printing. I paid $14.

I've already got it on my Kindle and I've read it at least six times. FWIW, this and Roughing It are MT's best works. With Tom Sawyer, Connecticut Yankee and Huck Finn in the middle and that dreadful Joan of Arc thing last.

Quote from: grumbler on March 17, 2020, 09:23:58 AM

Quote from: Tyr on March 17, 2020, 06:21:55 AM

Quote from: Tamas on March 11, 2020, 01:20:29 PM

Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2020, 12:41:44 PM
exactly the same price

Checking prices - you are doing it wrong :P

Where?
Usually they do tend to have around the same price. Sometimes digital is even more expensive (!!).

In time I guess this will change. Once upon a time it was attempted to make digital music the same price as physical releases. But it isn't there yet. And you've always the counter example of games.

You should probably shop for your ebooks somewhere other than you are (or else tell us about this fabulous place that sells physical books for the same price as ebooks).  Either you are getting ripped off on ebooks, or we are on physical books.

I don't buy ebooks, for the reasons mentioned.
Just go to amazon and compare.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 20, 2020, 04:48:56 AM
The last physical book I bought was in an independent bookstore in Placerville (Hangtown, California). The Innocent's Abroad. 1940 printing. I paid $14.

I've already got it on my Kindle and I've read it at least six times. FWIW, this and Roughing It are MT's best works. With Tom Sawyer, Connecticut Yankee and Huck Finn in the middle and that dreadful Joan of Arc thing last.

I envy you guys who can read books on Kindle, that must save so much space and money. I just cannot seem to get into a book that way.

Quote from: Valmy on March 20, 2020, 03:39:01 PM
I envy you guys who can read books on Kindle, that must save so much space and money. I just cannot seem to get into a book that way.

Technically I don't read on a Kindle (e-reader.)

I read on a tablet, originally a Fire HDX 8.9", now a Huawei with the Kindle App; I've never been able to read a book on a pure e-reader.

Certainly originally it was to do with the resolution and lighting; now, looking at my mother's latest Kindle, I think it's to do with the weight* and the controls.

*IT'S TOO LIGHT!!!

Quote from: Agelastus on March 20, 2020, 04:55:37 PM

Quote from: Valmy on March 20, 2020, 03:39:01 PM
I envy you guys who can read books on Kindle, that must save so much space and money. I just cannot seem to get into a book that way.

Technically I don't read on a Kindle (e-reader.)

I read on a tablet, originally a Fire HDX 8.9", now a Huawei with the Kindle App; I've never been able to read a book on a pure e-reader.

Certainly originally it was to do with the resolution and lighting; now, looking at my mother's latest Kindle, I think it's to do with the weight* and the controls.

*IT'S TOO LIGHT!!!

Get a chunky case that gives it the weight of a book?