How would it be if Donald Trump ruled Russia and in his place Vladimir Putin was the US President, all other things being equal?
Or are they so much the products of their country's systems that neither could have possibly become the leader in the other country?
Both countries would be worse off.
Agree. Putin would be better at subverting our system, while Trump would have more leeway to act on his dumbest impulses.
Trump wouldn't last two seconds. He is not smart enough to survive in that environment. Putin would last slightly longer but only because it would take a process under law to get rid of him.
Trump wouldn't last long, Russia is not North Korea. You're the boss of bosses, not absolute ruler with divine mandate. You need to be the most astute boss to remain in power.
Putin may do very well, in a way that is very bad for America. I think Trump revealed that American people's resistance to autocracy has been way overhyped. He would be pretty effective at playing on people's fears to effectively disenfranchise them.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2019, 10:43:26 AM
Putin would last slightly longer but only because it would take a process under law to get rid of him.
Putin wouldn't act as brazenly as he does if he were in America. He could last out his two terms.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 08, 2019, 12:15:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2019, 10:43:26 AM
Putin would last slightly longer but only because it would take a process under law to get rid of him.
Putin wouldn't act as brazenly as he does if he were in America. He could last out his two terms.
I don't see that. Unless we're talking about a thoroughly Americanized Putin.
Trump right now is very lucky. He's President in a country that still has a strong degree f respect for the rule of law, and as such you can see the Federal bureaucracy struggling to accede to his demands. But even still you've seen many examples reported in the papers about how Trump can't even control his own White House. He'd never survive in the murky world of Russian oligarchs.
Putin in the USA... well for better or worse the USA would have him term-limited a long time ago. Remember he became President of Russia in 2001. And we wouldn't know how well he'd handle ruling a country where he can't just go out and murder journalists and political opponents.
I mean...sure but he has been the man in Russia since 1998.
Alternatively, Trump in Russia could become a Boris Yeltsin type figure: a decomposing buffoon propped up by shadoey figures.
Quote from: DGuller on March 08, 2019, 12:46:24 PM
Alternatively, Trump in Russia could become a Boris Yeltsin type figure: a decomposing buffoon propped up by shadoey figures.
But that's what we all thought Trump was going to be like during the election. Turns out Trump really thinks he is smart and won't defer to anyone.
Quote from: Barrister on March 08, 2019, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 08, 2019, 12:46:24 PM
Alternatively, Trump in Russia could become a Boris Yeltsin type figure: a decomposing buffoon propped up by shadoey figures.
But that's what we all thought Trump was going to be like during the election. Turns out Trump really thinks he is smart and won't defer to anyone.
Yeah I mean I sort of hoped Trump was going to be a puppet to traditional Conservative Republicans but nope.
But then I also hoped Dubya was going to be a cipher for George HW Bush's people. I am getting used to disappointment.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 08, 2019, 12:15:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2019, 10:43:26 AM
Putin would last slightly longer but only because it would take a process under law to get rid of him.
Putin wouldn't act as brazenly as he does if he were in America. He could last out his two terms.
Ok, so in your scenario, Putin is not Putin.
No, but I think he's shrewd enough to alter his behavior to the circumstances he's in.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 08, 2019, 01:58:11 PM
No, but I think he's shrewd enough to alter his behavior to the circumstances he's in.
Exactly, in your scenario he alters his behavior to act like an American politician - kind of defeats the exercise of the thought experiment.
lolwut
Quote from: Barrister on March 08, 2019, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 08, 2019, 12:46:24 PM
Alternatively, Trump in Russia could become a Boris Yeltsin type figure: a decomposing buffoon propped up by shadoey figures.
But that's what we all thought Trump was going to be like during the election. Turns out Trump really thinks he is smart and won't defer to anyone.
Yeah, but one of the things we have found out about Trump is that he's a coward. He can't actually tell people to their face that they are fired. He needs someone else to do it. Trump has dealt with organized crime before, he always deferred.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2019, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 08, 2019, 01:58:11 PM
No, but I think he's shrewd enough to alter his behavior to the circumstances he's in.
Exactly, in your scenario he alters his behavior to act like an American politician - kind of defeats the exercise of the thought experiment.
Well, he would have had to have been born in America to become president, so I guess his pregnant mother fled to America in this scenario back in 1952. I imagine he would have been a more ruthless Nixon type of guy if he managed to become president.
He would have been a lawyer.
He would have been Sheriff of Maricopa County.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2019, 04:45:05 PM
He would have been Sheriff of Maricopa County.
It all makes sense now!