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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on July 13, 2009, 02:20:27 AM

Title: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Syt on July 13, 2009, 02:20:27 AM
CNN: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/07/12/military.smoking.ban/index.html)

QuoteWASHINGTON (CNN) -- You've seen the iconic picture of a soldier with a cigarette dangling from his mouth, but that could soon be a thing of the past.

A new study commissioned by the Pentagon and the Department of Veterans Affairs recommends a complete ban on tobacco, which would end tobacco sales on military bases and prohibit smoking by anyone in uniform, not even combat troops in the thick of battle.

According to the study, tobacco use impairs military readiness in the short term. Over the long term, it can cause serious health problems, including lung cancer and cardiovascular disease. The study also says smokeless tobacco use can lead to oral and pancreatic cancer.

The Defense Department's top health officials are studying the report's suggestions and will make recommendations to the Pentagon's policy team and Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

The study recommends phasing out tobacco products such as cigarettes and cigars over a five- to 10-year period.

However, the suggested ban does not sit well with many in uniform, including retired Gen. Russel Honore, best known for coordinating military relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina-affected areas with an ever-present stogie. He said soldiers at war need to puff.

"When you're tired and you've been going days on end with minimum sleep, and you are not getting the proper meals on time, that hit of tobacco can make a difference," said Honore, who was in charge of the Army's training programs before he retired.

Other soldiers questioned whether this was a good time to stamp out smoking, given the Army's concern with a high suicide rate.

"For some, unfortunately, they feel that smoking is their stress relief. Well if you take it away, what is the replacement?" said Sgt. 1st Class Gary Johnson.

The Pentagon supports the goal of a tobacco-free military, said spokeswoman Cynthia Smith.

"However, achieving that goal will depend on coincident reductions of tobacco use in the civilian population," she said.

Dr. Ken Kizer, the author of the study, found that civilians don't smoke as much as soldiers. One in three active duty soldiers smoke, he said, adding that among the general population, that number is less than one in five.

The Pentagon banned smoking in buildings on bases years ago. It has counselors on call to help service members quit. But while local governments have heavily taxed tobacco, the commissaries often sell it at deeply discounted prices.

"The military sends very mixed signals," Kizer said. "This is what's confusing to people."

The study found that profits from those tobacco sales -- $80 million to $90 million -- often pay for recreation and family programs on base.

Yeah, this would sure go well.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Sophie Scholl on July 13, 2009, 02:25:34 AM
...and now we know what will bring about a military coup in the United States.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 13, 2009, 04:07:19 AM
Quote from: Judas Iscariot on July 13, 2009, 02:25:34 AM
...and now we know what will bring about a military coup in the United States.

Not a chance, Obama's a smoker.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Caliga on July 13, 2009, 05:43:27 AM
What kind of half baked bullshit is this? :blink:
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Monoriu on July 13, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
I'd rather have happy soldiers willing to work and fight, even if it means they are more likely to die from lung cancer 40 years from now, than unhappy soldiers an inch away from mutiny.

I can also hear the screams of army recruiters if they need to tell smokers that they must quit before they can sign up. 
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: DisturbedPervert on July 13, 2009, 06:22:02 AM
QuoteFor some, unfortunately, they feel that smoking is their stress relief.

That's because it is a stress relief.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Tonitrus on July 13, 2009, 06:49:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 13, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
I'd rather have happy soldiers willing to work and fight, even if it means they are more likely to die from lung cancer 40 years from now, than unhappy soldiers an inch away from mutiny.

I can also hear the screams of army recruiters if they need to tell smokers that they must quit before they can sign up.

Smoking is usually banned in basic training/boot camp (for the USAF at least, what little I can find says the same for the Army, dunno if really true, though).  You'd think it would be a good crash course to giving up the habit, but many take it right back up. 
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Alatriste on July 13, 2009, 07:06:52 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 13, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
I'd rather have happy soldiers willing to work and fight, even if it means they are more likely to die from lung cancer 40 years from now, than unhappy soldiers an inch away from mutiny.

I can also hear the screams of army recruiters if they need to tell smokers that they must quit before they can sign up.

You obviously have forgotten the health costs during those 40 years...
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2009, 07:13:19 AM
Smoking has been effectively banned on USN ships for years, so I don't think this would bring much change to the navy (I know the navy isn't technically part of the "military" but that isn't a distinction anyone makes any more).
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on July 13, 2009, 09:36:53 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2009, 07:13:19 AM
Smoking has been effectively banned on USN ships for years, so I don't think this would bring much change to the navy (I know the navy isn't technically part of the "military" but that isn't a distinction anyone makes any more).

:unsure:  Is this a new development?  I smoked more on the ship than I ever did at any point in my life.  That shit got to ridiculous levels (at least for my lungs).  It was more of a pain to go smoke when I got back to San Diego and didn't have something like 6 readily accessible smoke pits in the immediate area.

Edit:  We, of course, weren't allowed to smoke during boot camp, and the rule extended to the first three weeks of NACCS as well, although I managed not to really start again until I left there and hit A School.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Alcibiades on July 13, 2009, 09:52:10 AM
Yeah no smoking in basic training.

Heck I'd prefer they banned it, not only is it expensive, but it drives me crazy personally.   :P
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Malthus on July 13, 2009, 10:01:32 AM
They should ban it right before a major conflict, and then send the smokers into the front lines. They'd be so fucking pissed, they'd take the enemy apart.  :lol:
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2009, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 13, 2009, 09:36:53 AM
:unsure:  Is this a new development?  I smoked more on the ship than I ever did at any point in my life.  That shit got to ridiculous levels (at least for my lungs).  It was more of a pain to go smoke when I got back to San Diego and didn't have something like 6 readily accessible smoke pits in the immediate area.
Since at least the late 1990s, smoking has been restricted (at least on the ships I was on with the CARFRU staff, and that was quite a few) to a few almost inaccessable spaces.  I must admit that i wasn't thinking about the fact that on non-avaiation ships you could probably just smoke topside.

Still, nobody I met and talked to was still smoking, and several commented on how different it was now that "nobody smoked."

Like you, I smoked like chimney onboard ship back in the day.  $3 a carton sea-stores ciggies FTW!
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2009, 10:33:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 13, 2009, 10:01:32 AM
They should ban it right before a major conflict, and then send the smokers into the front lines. They'd be so fucking pissed, they'd take the enemy apart.  :lol:
Work even better if you require it of combat troops in peacetime & behind the lines.  :D
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on July 13, 2009, 10:53:32 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2009, 10:32:16 AM
Since at least the late 1990s, smoking has been restricted (at least on the ships I was on with the CARFRU staff, and that was quite a few) to a few almost inaccessable spaces.  I must admit that i wasn't thinking about the fact that on non-avaiation ships you could probably just smoke topside.

Yeah, the only time we were kept from smoking was when the red flag was up (fuel being transferred).  Otherwise...well...there were pits on both bridge wings, the signal bridge, two down "inside," where they could close the doors at night for light discipline, and a couple more outside the helo hangar, all with those covered red ash bucket things that were almost always full and occasionally on fire from all the burning butts dropped in there.  I'm somewhat surprised we all just didn't die from cancer while on the boat.  :P

QuoteStill, nobody I met and talked to was still smoking, and several commented on how different it was now that "nobody smoked."

I know when I was going through the schools (mid 01 through mid-ish 02), there was a lot of emphasis on SMOKING CESSATION!! IT'S OKAY NOT TO SMOKE!! (this is what was printed on the posters they had all over the school, along with a bunch of stupid charts and shit with a tiny font you couldn't see because it was hanging from the ceiling of a structure that used to be an enormous hangar...typical Navy stuff).  Classes, free patches and shit from medical, things like that.  Once I got to my first "fleet" assignment, all that stuff pretty much stopped, even though it was a shore based SAR unit where almost no one smoked.  They just didn't seem to care either way, but it wasn't until I got to the "blackshoe" navy where it seemed like everyone was really smoking a bunch.

QuoteLike you, I smoked like chimney onboard ship back in the day.  $3 a carton sea-stores ciggies FTW!

Christ.  I'm glad our ships store sucked and didn't really have smokes.  The $15 NEX cartons were getting burned fast as it was, but there was at least a little restraint because they weren't easily replaced while underway.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Josquius on July 13, 2009, 10:55:35 AM
Fairly common sense though I do see a huge problem in that military personnel living on a base/ship/whatever don't exactly get 'off work' in quite the same way civilians do.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Berkut on July 13, 2009, 11:20:15 AM
The military needs to pull their head out of there ass.

Don't go banning anything. Just make it hard as hell to do (no smoking in buildings, or within 50ft. of any building or on ship or near an aircraft (say 500ft.). Other than that, puff away!

Oh, and quadruple the taxes on smokes sold in the PX and such. To pay for something or other. Then keep increasing them.

And you lsoe some points on your fitness report if you smoke. But you are allowed to smoke! Go right ahead!
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Ed Anger on July 13, 2009, 11:30:34 AM
I might have to revive my cigarette smuggling career.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Berkut on July 13, 2009, 11:56:59 AM
Quote from: Armyknife on July 13, 2009, 11:26:11 AM

:huh:

You're advocating the US military become like NuLabour Britain ?  :cry:

Well yeah, except that they kill people.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 13, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
should go over well. The Military is well known for it's open attitude to change. :p
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: sbr on July 13, 2009, 12:37:26 PM
Pretty soon you will be able to smoke pole, but not cigs.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: crazy canuck on July 13, 2009, 01:09:41 PM
Reminds me of a line from the recent movie "Paschendale"

The lead actor playing a WWI veteran of trench warfare is asked during a fundraising effort for the war what is a soldier's biggest worry.  Several helpful suggestions are given by the questioner such as artillery, machine gun fire and gas.  The soldier's response was "wet matches".  He goes on to explain that if a soldier has wet matches he cant have a smoke to calm his nerves while getting shelled, fired upon and gased.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Malthus on July 13, 2009, 01:57:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 13, 2009, 01:09:41 PM
Reminds me of a line from the recent movie "Paschendale"

The lead actor playing a WWI veteran of trench warfare is asked during a fundraising effort for the war what is a soldier's biggest worry.  Several helpful suggestions are given by the questioner such as artillery, machine gun fire and gas.  The soldier's response was "wet matches".  He goes on to explain that if a soldier has wet matches he cant have a smoke to calm his nerves while getting shelled, fired upon and gased.

Nowadays his biggest worry is evidently busibodies who are concerned about his health sufficiently to take away his ability to have a smoke while being shot at or blown up.  :D
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: FunkMonk on July 13, 2009, 05:25:24 PM
I didn't start smoking until I joined the Army. Actually, to be more precise, until the night before I crossed the border into Iraq in an old Humvee with no windows and laughably thin armor plates thrown on the bottom at the last minute. :goarmy:  :lol:

Since then it's been on and off. When I was deployed, probably a pack every week or two. Now, I'd say I have a cigarette maybe three or four times a year. 
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Ed Anger on July 13, 2009, 05:29:01 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 13, 2009, 05:25:24 PM
and laughably thin armor plates thrown on the bottom at the last minute. :goarmy:  :lol:



It worked for the A-Team.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 13, 2009, 05:34:42 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 13, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
I can also hear the screams of army recruiters if they need to tell smokers that they must quit before they can sign up.

They do that anyway, because it's suicide going into basic training as a smoker.  What with all that running around and shit.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: AnchorClanker on July 14, 2009, 10:31:44 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 13, 2009, 06:49:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 13, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
I'd rather have happy soldiers willing to work and fight, even if it means they are more likely to die from lung cancer 40 years from now, than unhappy soldiers an inch away from mutiny.

I can also hear the screams of army recruiters if they need to tell smokers that they must quit before they can sign up.

Smoking is usually banned in basic training/boot camp (for the USAF at least, what little I can find says the same for the Army, dunno if really true, though).  You'd think it would be a good crash course to giving up the habit, but many take it right back up.

Same for USN boot camp.  We lost our AROC because he bummed a smoke off the gal at the bank and somebody saw him.
I picked it right back up at O'Hare Airport a few hours after graduation. :smoke:
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: AnchorClanker on July 14, 2009, 10:38:41 AM
PS - I remember talk of a "Smoke-Free Navy 2000" at that time... it's not going to work now, as it didn't then.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Neil on July 14, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 13, 2009, 01:57:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 13, 2009, 01:09:41 PM
Reminds me of a line from the recent movie "Paschendale"

The lead actor playing a WWI veteran of trench warfare is asked during a fundraising effort for the war what is a soldier's biggest worry.  Several helpful suggestions are given by the questioner such as artillery, machine gun fire and gas.  The soldier's response was "wet matches".  He goes on to explain that if a soldier has wet matches he cant have a smoke to calm his nerves while getting shelled, fired upon and gased.

Nowadays his biggest worry is evidently busibodies who are concerned about his health sufficiently to take away his ability to have a smoke while being shot at or blown up.  :D
I've noticed a certain crossover between anti-smoking zealots and the sort of people who believe that the military should be abolished.  Then again, there are also those Baptists who believe in blowing up all non-whites, but that anything that is fun should be banned.
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Valmy on July 14, 2009, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Neil on July 14, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
I've noticed a certain crossover between anti-smoking zealots and the sort of people who believe that the military should be abolished.
Yes they are both mainly Germans?
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: AnchorClanker on July 14, 2009, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 14, 2009, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Neil on July 14, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
I've noticed a certain crossover between anti-smoking zealots and the sort of people who believe that the military should be abolished.
Yes they are both mainly Germans.
:huh:
Title: Re: Pentagon considers smoking ban for military
Post by: Valmy on July 14, 2009, 11:13:31 AM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on July 14, 2009, 11:09:43 AM
:huh:

That was supposed to be a question.

We have had a thing going on this board for awhile about how insanely anti-military the present day germans are.