I've decided that I want to go on a Grand Adventure(tm). I'm thinking a trip to Shanghai next April. Flight and hotel for 10 days then is only $1100 at the moment. I won't be able to book for another couple of months, so I'm keeping an open mind.
My budget will be around $1500-$2000 for flight from Portland with hotel, and I'd like to go somewhere very different than anywhere I've gone before. If the flight is more than 8 hours, I'd prefer to go for 10 days. If the flight is less than 8 hours, I'd prefer to go for 7 days.
What say you, Languish? Where should Meri go to experience life beyond her ken?
Seems that I can do nine nights in Krakow for about the same price AND spend a night in London as a "layover"! :hmm:
9 nights in Krakow is probably too much. But the airport there has cheap flights out, you could maybe visit Budapest and Vienna as well (or Prague); come to that you could travel between those places by rail, the distances are not great.
To put in a good word for the UK, the exchange rate is very favourable for Americans right now.
Shanghai is great but there is no way I can spend 10 days there. If you are in the region anyway, you should go to Hangzhou and Suzhou as well. Those are just one hour away by high speed rail. If you go to China anyway, Beijing is basically a must-see. The flights between Shanghai and Beijing are cheap and frequent. I think you should spend 3-4 nights in Beijing, 6-7 nights in Shanghai/Hangzhou/Suzhou.
If you have, say, two extra days, then come to Hong Kong :)
9 in Krakow is definitely too much.
As said Prague isn't too far, 9 between the two...that should be OK for a leisurely visit.
Or you could do southern Poland in general. Auschwitz is something powerful to see and driving distance from Krakow. Wroclaw was quite pretty.
I was in Krakow 10 years ago and it was nice though I hear it has changed in the past decade, budget drinking tourists from England have invaded.
Europe being Europe you can always go practically anywhere in the continent in those 9 days with low cost airlines.
I've been wanting to do China for ages. Though the visa hassle and the potential for air and food pollution keeps putting me off. I'd like to go into Beijing or Shanghai and travel to the other one by train, stopping at one or two interesting cities along the way.
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 03:58:21 AM
9 in Krakow is definitely too much.
As said Prague isn't too far, 9 between the two...that should be OK for a leisurely visit.
Or you could do southern Poland in general. Auschwitz is something powerful to see and driving distance from Krakow. Wroclaw was quite pretty.
I was in Krakow 10 years ago and it was nice though I hear it has changed in the past decade, budget drinking tourists from England have invaded.
Europe being Europe you can always go practically anywhere in the continent in those 9 days with low cost airlines.
I've been wanting to do China for ages. Though the visa hassle and the potential for air and food pollution keeps putting me off. I'd like to go into Beijing or Shanghai and travel to the other one by train, stopping at one or two interesting cities along the way.
I think rail between Shanghai and Beijing is like 5-6 hours minimum, even on the more expensive high speed rail. The thing is, Shanghai and Beijing are much more interesting than any city along the way. A lot of it is just industrial wasteland. It is much better to arrive at either Shanghai or Beijing as soon as possible.
I'd probably want to do Italy or Japan, but this is your trip.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 22, 2017, 03:19:08 AM
Shanghai is great but there is no way I can spend 10 days there. If you are in the region anyway, you should go to Hangzhou and Suzhou as well. Those are just one hour away by high speed rail. If you go to China anyway, Beijing is basically a must-see. The flights between Shanghai and Beijing are cheap and frequent. I think you should spend 3-4 nights in Beijing, 6-7 nights in Shanghai/Hangzhou/Suzhou.
If you have, say, two extra days, then come to Hong Kong :)
This sounds like a good trip.
Yeah unless you are picking one location where you are going to lounge about a good portion of the time, 10 days time will probably be overly long for most single locales. So you want to spread about as mentioned with cheap continental flights or rail.
Spending more than half of your budget on a flight seems very expensive and will prohibit you from doing much in the location you go to. And I can find a flight for like 600 USD from Portland to Shanghai and back in April next year, so whatever you are looking at seems ridiculously overpriced.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 22, 2017, 04:19:37 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 03:58:21 AM
9 in Krakow is definitely too much.
As said Prague isn't too far, 9 between the two...that should be OK for a leisurely visit.
Or you could do southern Poland in general. Auschwitz is something powerful to see and driving distance from Krakow. Wroclaw was quite pretty.
I was in Krakow 10 years ago and it was nice though I hear it has changed in the past decade, budget drinking tourists from England have invaded.
Europe being Europe you can always go practically anywhere in the continent in those 9 days with low cost airlines.
I've been wanting to do China for ages. Though the visa hassle and the potential for air and food pollution keeps putting me off. I'd like to go into Beijing or Shanghai and travel to the other one by train, stopping at one or two interesting cities along the way.
I think rail between Shanghai and Beijing is like 5-6 hours minimum, even on the more expensive high speed rail. The thing is, Shanghai and Beijing are much more interesting than any city along the way. A lot of it is just industrial wasteland. It is much better to arrive at either Shanghai or Beijing as soon as possible.
Qufu? There's some history there what with Confucius no?
The whole area is the historic core of China, I'm sure I found a few interesting looking places when researching. All forgotten now alas.
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 08:25:32 AM
Qufu? There's some history there what with Confucius no?
The whole area is the historic core of China, I'm sure I found a few interesting looking places when researching. All forgotten now alas.
After a few thousand years, dozens of wars, and the cultural revolution, most things in Qufu are fakes.
Quote from: Zanza on July 22, 2017, 07:58:35 AM
Spending more than half of your budget on a flight seems very expensive and will prohibit you from doing much in the location you go to. And I can find a flight for like 600 USD from Portland to Shanghai and back in April next year, so whatever you are looking at seems ridiculously overpriced.
:huh:
The prices she gave were flights + hotel. The budget she mentioned was for flight + hotel.
You are right, I misread that.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 22, 2017, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 08:25:32 AM
Qufu? There's some history there what with Confucius no?
The whole area is the historic core of China, I'm sure I found a few interesting looking places when researching. All forgotten now alas.
After a few thousand years, dozens of wars, and the cultural revolution, most things in Qufu are fakes.
Meh, it's the same for most things in Japan and Korea, I expect nothing better from China :p
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 09:30:51 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 22, 2017, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 08:25:32 AM
Qufu? There's some history there what with Confucius no?
The whole area is the historic core of China, I'm sure I found a few interesting looking places when researching. All forgotten now alas.
After a few thousand years, dozens of wars, and the cultural revolution, most things in Qufu are fakes.
Meh, it's the same for most things in Japan and Korea, I expect nothing better from China :p
China must be worse. In the cultural revolution, there was a deliberate attempt to destroy all things historical. Only the most prominent sites (e.g. forbidden palace) were spared.
Quote from: merithyn on July 22, 2017, 02:20:50 AM
What say you, Languish? Where should Meri go to experience life beyond her ken?
I think we need to concentrate a little more on work and a little less on daydreaming, young lady. :mad:
If you are considering Eastern adventures, Air China has ridiculously cheap flights out of Vancouver. A quick google has Vancouver - New Delhi at US$750 and Vancouver - various spots in China for US$670.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 22, 2017, 10:16:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 22, 2017, 02:20:50 AM
What say you, Languish? Where should Meri go to experience life beyond her ken?
I think we need to concentrate a little more on work and a little less on daydreaming, young lady. :mad:
Next up: Meri's gap year living in hostels in Europe.
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2017, 11:45:46 AM
If you are considering Eastern adventures, Air China has ridiculously cheap flights out of Vancouver. A quick google has Vancouver - New Delhi at US$750 and Vancouver - various spots in China for US$670.
I've heard they also have pretty good deals where you can get visa free 3 day stop overs in China en-route to elsewhere.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 22, 2017, 09:36:03 AM
China must be worse. In the cultural revolution, there was a deliberate attempt to destroy all things historical. Only the most prominent sites (e.g. forbidden palace) were spared.
I wouldn't be so sure.
In the Japanese occupation of Korea the Japanaese made significant efforts to destroy examples of Korean heritage, then there was the Korean war.
Also there was WW2 and the American firebombing of Japan....Kyoto was about the only city spared.
Most of the castles in Japan are post-war reconstructions made out of concrete.
Japanese temples/shrines as standard are made out of wood and go through an eternal cycle of reconstruction so even if there hadn't been a war it would be a stretch to call them original.
Oh. And of course the second half of the 20th century dash for modernisation in both. Just like in the UK and HK that saw a lot of heritage destroyed.
I have trouble imagining China being too much worse in terms of authenticity.
Anyway, we digress.
Quote from: Zanza on July 22, 2017, 07:58:35 AM
Spending more than half of your budget on a flight seems very expensive and will prohibit you from doing much in the location you go to. And I can find a flight for like 600 USD from Portland to Shanghai and back in April next year, so whatever you are looking at seems ridiculously overpriced.
The prices were for the flight and the hotel for 10 days. I'm thinking $50/night isn't ridiculously overpriced.
Quote from: garbon on July 22, 2017, 07:31:36 AM
Yeah unless you are picking one location where you are going to lounge about a good portion of the time, 10 days time will probably be overly long for most single locales. So you want to spread about as mentioned with cheap continental flights or rail.
That was more just a general idea. If I went that far, I would definitely explore beyond the city that I landed in.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 22, 2017, 10:16:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 22, 2017, 02:20:50 AM
What say you, Languish? Where should Meri go to experience life beyond her ken?
I think we need to concentrate a little more on work and a little less on daydreaming, young lady. :mad:
YOU may need to, but I'm doing great at the new job. ^_^
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2017, 11:45:46 AM
If you are considering Eastern adventures, Air China has ridiculously cheap flights out of Vancouver. A quick google has Vancouver - New Delhi at US$750 and Vancouver - various spots in China for US$670.
That's about what the prices were that I was looking at from Portland, too.
Japan is very nice and quick to get around cheaply with the tourist rail pass thingy. 10 days will let you do both Tokyo and Kyoto.
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 07:53:59 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2017, 11:45:46 AM
If you are considering Eastern adventures, Air China has ridiculously cheap flights out of Vancouver. A quick google has Vancouver - New Delhi at US$750 and Vancouver - various spots in China for US$670.
I've heard they also have pretty good deals where you can get visa free 3 day stop overs in China en-route to elsewhere.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 22, 2017, 09:36:03 AM
China must be worse. In the cultural revolution, there was a deliberate attempt to destroy all things historical. Only the most prominent sites (e.g. forbidden palace) were spared.
I wouldn't be so sure.
In the Japanese occupation of Korea the Japanaese made significant efforts to destroy examples of Korean heritage, then there was the Korean war.
Also there was WW2 and the American firebombing of Japan....Kyoto was about the only city spared.
Most of the castles in Japan are post-war reconstructions made out of concrete.
Japanese temples/shrines as standard are made out of wood and go through an eternal cycle of reconstruction so even if there hadn't been a war it would be a stretch to call them original.
Oh. And of course the second half of the 20th century dash for modernisation in both. Just like in the UK and HK that saw a lot of heritage destroyed.
I have trouble imagining China being too much worse in terms of authenticity.
Anyway, we digress.
The cultural revolution is a bit unique and definitely different from a foreign invader trying to destroy things. In that case at least the local population will try to resist. During the cultural revolution, the local population was driven into a frenzy and destroyed their own history for political reasons.
Quote from: merithyn on July 22, 2017, 10:58:07 PM
YOU may need to, but I'm doing great at the new job. ^_^
Not even the 30 day mark, and you're already planning global vacations.
You haven't even selected your 2017 nominees to passive-aggressively blame your work performance on yet.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2017, 10:01:27 AM
Not even the 30 day mark, and you're already planning global vacations.
You haven't even selected your 2017 nominees to passive-aggressively blame your work performance on yet.
I'm kinda with Seedy on this one. At least wait to get out of your probationary period before you start talking about heavy-duty vacations like this.
As someone who lived in Shanghai for 3 years, I have to say you'd be better off visiting Beijing, Hong Kong or Xi'an. Shanghai is cool if you want to see a real big city, but otherwise doesn't really have much in the way of tourist attractions. At most, maybe spend a day there on your way to Nanjing or Hangzhou.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2017, 10:01:27 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 22, 2017, 10:58:07 PM
YOU may need to, but I'm doing great at the new job. ^_^
Not even the 30 day mark, and you're already planning global vacations.
You haven't even selected your 2017 nominees to passive-aggressively blame your work performance on yet.
My work performance has never been any issue at any of my jobs. I was tagged more for "doesn't play well with others".
The current job doesn't have anyone like that. It's incredibly refreshing. Its the most functional place I've ever worked. Love the boss. Love my co-workers. Love the work. It's fan-freaking-tastic!
Quote from: DontSayBanana link=topic=15099.msg1093892#msg1093892
I'm kinda with Seedy on this one. At least wait to get out of your probationary period before you start talking about heavy-duty vacations like this.
My boss talked to me last week about going to a big meeting with him in Seattle in November, and has me working on a presentation for it. I'm petty sure I'll have make it another handful of weeks through my probationary period, but thanks for your concern.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 23, 2017, 10:56:50 AM
As someone who lived in Shanghai for 3 years, I have to say you'd be better off visiting Beijing, Hong Kong or Xi'an. Shanghai is cool if you want to see a real big city, but otherwise doesn't really have much in the way of tourist attractions. At most, maybe spend a day there on your way to Nanjing or Hangzhou.
The Bund is the most beautiful place in Shanghai, both day and night.
Quote from: merithyn on July 24, 2017, 03:11:41 AM
My work performance has never been any issue at any of my jobs. I was tagged more for "doesn't play well with others".
Not to be pedantic but the extent to which you can get along with others is definitely a component of work performance. :P
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 07:53:59 PM
Most of the castles in Japan are post-war reconstructions made out of concrete.
Japanese temples/shrines as standard are made out of wood and go through an eternal cycle of reconstruction so even if there hadn't been a war it would be a stretch to call them original.
Are you saying that the Ship of Theseus isn't the original! :ultra: :ultra: :ultra:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 23, 2017, 10:07:11 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2017, 10:01:27 AM
Not even the 30 day mark, and you're already planning global vacations.
You haven't even selected your 2017 nominees to passive-aggressively blame your work performance on yet.
I'm kinda with Seedy on this one. At least wait to get out of your probationary period before you start talking about heavy-duty vacations like this.
My newest colleague took off on a 6-week vacation after his first week on the job.
I like his style :)
Quote from: merithyn on July 24, 2017, 03:11:41 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2017, 10:01:27 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 22, 2017, 10:58:07 PM
YOU may need to, but I'm doing great at the new job. ^_^
Not even the 30 day mark, and you're already planning global vacations.
You haven't even selected your 2017 nominees to passive-aggressively blame your work performance on yet.
My work performance has never been any issue at any of my jobs. I was tagged more for "doesn't play well with others".
The current job doesn't have anyone like that. It's incredibly refreshing. Its the most functional place I've ever worked. Love the boss. Love my co-workers. Love the work. It's fan-freaking-tastic!
That's a great attitude for your fourth day on the job. :P
Quote from: merithyn on July 22, 2017, 10:59:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2017, 11:45:46 AM
If you are considering Eastern adventures, Air China has ridiculously cheap flights out of Vancouver. A quick google has Vancouver - New Delhi at US$750 and Vancouver - various spots in China for US$670.
That's about what the prices were that I was looking at from Portland, too.
Probably more convenient to fly out of the city you're in :)
In any case, Shanghai would definitely be an adventure. China in general is not set up for non-Chinese tourists once you stray beyond package tours or the teach-ESL infrastructure, but it has a lot of charming parts and even more un-charming but definitely different from the US bits. Taiwan, Hong Kong, S. Korea and Japan (especially Japan) are all much more approachable, IMO.
The diamond, Xiacob. The deal was for the diamond.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 24, 2017, 12:57:02 PM
The diamond, Xiacob. The deal was for the diamond.
Don't worry, you can buy a lot of antidotes in China.
You guys lay off Meri-- nothing wrong with thinking through some possible vacations. I'm happy for her in her new job, new town, and new house :)
Meri, what's your experience in international travel? I seem to think it's not that much (though I'm hardly a globetrotter myself).
I ask just because launching yourself right to Shanghai sounds kind of intense if you haven't done much international travelling before. Just from what I understand, few know English, and not many services set up for tourists. I understand the desire to want to set out on a Grand Adventure(tm), but it might be worthwhile to go on a slightly less grand adventure and work up to mainland China.
You also mentioned Krakow, where I have been to. It was a great destination actually. The town itself was quite cool, not hard to get by knowing english only, and visiting Auswitz was, well, highlight isn't the right word, but certainly one of the most memorable places I've ever been. But yeah, 10 days sounds like a bit much if your interest is in sightseeing. But from there Czechia, Slovakia, Hugary and Austria are all pretty close by and each have their own charms.
Quote from: derspiess on July 24, 2017, 01:08:56 PM
You guys lay off Meri-- nothing wrong with thinking through some possible vacations. I'm happy for her in her new job, new town, and new house :)
:lol: ITS A TRAP
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 24, 2017, 05:03:07 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2017, 07:53:59 PM
Most of the castles in Japan are post-war reconstructions made out of concrete.
Japanese temples/shrines as standard are made out of wood and go through an eternal cycle of reconstruction so even if there hadn't been a war it would be a stretch to call them original.
Are you saying that the Ship of Theseus isn't the original! :ultra: :ultra: :ultra:
Interesting philosophy. Applicable in some cases but I know in others they do full reconstructions all in one rather than maintaining and replacing bits as they go along.
Quote from: Barrister on July 24, 2017, 01:09:16 PM
Meri, what's your experience in international travel? I seem to think it's not that much (though I'm hardly a globetrotter myself).
I ask just because launching yourself right to Shanghai sounds kind of intense if you haven't done much international travelling before. Just from what I understand, few know English, and not many services set up for tourists. I understand the desire to want to set out on a Grand Adventure(tm), but it might be worthwhile to go on a slightly less grand adventure and work up to mainland China.
You also mentioned Krakow, where I have been to. It was a great destination actually. The town itself was quite cool, not hard to get by knowing english only, and visiting Auswitz was, well, highlight isn't the right word, but certainly one of the most memorable places I've ever been. But yeah, 10 days sounds like a bit much if your interest is in sightseeing. But from there Czechia, Slovakia, Hugary and Austria are all pretty close by and each have their own charms.
I've been to the UK twice, Italy, Germany, and Istanbul once.
The Eastern European nations are a definite maybe. I know myself well enough to know that I won't be able to visit any concentration camps. Not if I ever want to sleep again, anyway. But there are a ton of cool places to visit in that area just the same.
Don't listen to all these olds, Meri. Go for it, China sounds about right if you want something very different. Krakow does not.
Quote from: merithyn on July 24, 2017, 06:00:17 PM
I've been to the UK twice, Italy, Germany, and Istanbul once.
The Eastern European nations are a definite maybe. I know myself well enough to know that I won't be able to visit any concentration camps. Not if I ever want to sleep again, anyway. But there are a ton of cool places to visit in that area just the same.
I'd say given where you've been, going to Asia is going to be more of a grand adventure.
You know, having googled a bit I think going to Shanghai is a pretty good idea. Get a couple of guide books, including Lonely Planet or equivalent, and research online. You should be able to spend 10 days fairly well, especially if you book one or two day trips to the nearby countryside.
I'd probably consider staying at hostels/ backpacker hotels as that's a good way to meet other travelers, socialize, and come across different adventures. And if you have a way to get a contact in the city before hand - friend of a friend or reaching out the the Chinese SCA (don't think they have one, but maybe you belong to some other group) to arrange a visit/ meetup is great too. Don't think we've got any languishites there, though.
EDIT: but if you go to China, don't go right now - they're having a heatwave. Also, don't go in winter because the pollution is worse then. Something like late summer to mid-autumn is probably best.
Shanghai: https://www.lonelyplanet.com/china/shanghai
I can't imagine Shanghai being unfriendly to tourists. It is probably the most internationalised city in mainland China, and lots of expats live there. They held a World Expo a few years ago and the authorities "trained" the local population on how to deal with foreigners and to speak basic English etc. Granted, you can't speak English everywhere, but nobody will be surprised about seeing a foreigner. Unless you go to some really backwater part of the mainland, you'll be fine. Beijing, Hangzhou, Shanghai etc are all used to being tourist destinations.
Quote from: Jacob on July 24, 2017, 06:25:29 PM
EDIT: but if you go to China, don't go right now - they're having a heatwave. Also, don't go in winter because the pollution is worse then. Something like late summer to mid-autumn is probably best.
Pollution is less of a problem in Shanghai and Hong Kong. We are near the ocean and we have very little heavy industry. Beijing is a different story. It is best to avoid Beijing in the winter and spring.
Shanghai does have it's pollution days, but it's not as bad as Beijing. The humidity is pretty bad. Like DC-bad. In winter it stays above freezing, but it's still humid so you get this damp cold that's kinda gross.
Tourist-wise, there's plenty of English signage (except around Yuyuan Garden, for some reason) and people are definitely used to foreigners. I almost never got the "Oh, laowai!" treatment there unless I really went off the beaten path. Not a lot of people speak English, even in the service industry, but if you're patient you can get by, and there's sometimes there's a local who speaks English well who will help.
The Bund is nice, and there's nice restaurants, Yu Yuan Garden, shopping (don't bother with Nanjing Road), and tall buildings. Jing'an Temple is fairly central and a short but neat visit. The Shanghai Museum is okay, but the Shanghai Building Museum is pretty neat since it goes into the history of the city itself. Shanghai is just a big modern city and before it was that, it was a fishing village, so there's not much to see in terms of history, unlike Beijing. I'd use it as a starting point to get acclimated and then go to Beijing and Xi'an. But then again, maybe that's just because I lived there so long.
Quote from: Jacob on July 24, 2017, 06:25:29 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 24, 2017, 06:00:17 PM
I've been to the UK twice, Italy, Germany, and Istanbul once.
The Eastern European nations are a definite maybe. I know myself well enough to know that I won't be able to visit any concentration camps. Not if I ever want to sleep again, anyway. But there are a ton of cool places to visit in that area just the same.
I'd say given where you've been, going to Asia is going to be more of a grand adventure.
You know, having googled a bit I think going to Shanghai is a pretty good idea. Get a couple of guide books, including Lonely Planet or equivalent, and research online. You should be able to spend 10 days fairly well, especially if you book one or two day trips to the nearby countryside.
I'd probably consider staying at hostels/ backpacker hotels as that's a good way to meet other travelers, socialize, and come across different adventures. And if you have a way to get a contact in the city before hand - friend of a friend or reaching out the the Chinese SCA (don't think they have one, but maybe you belong to some other group) to arrange a visit/ meetup is great too. Don't think we've got any languishites there, though.
EDIT: but if you go to China, don't go right now - they're having a heatwave. Also, don't go in winter because the pollution is worse then. Something like late summer to mid-autumn is probably best.
I'm thinking April-ish. And Shanghai is a stopping place, to fly into and out of and spend a few days in, not the whole trip. I'm thinking of doing a hiking/boating trip along the Yangtze. Maybe not this one in particular, but something like it:
https://www.travelchinaguide.com/cruise/regal/tour-ds406b.htm (https://www.travelchinaguide.com/cruise/regal/tour-ds406b.htm)
I've been training to climb Mount Saint Helen's next summer, and this would be a great way to see how well I'm doing. Plus... wow... what better way to see China??
Quote from: merithyn on July 25, 2017, 12:28:16 PM
I'm thinking April-ish. And Shanghai is a stopping place, to fly into and out of and spend a few days in, not the whole trip. I'm thinking of doing a hiking/boating trip along the Yangtze. Maybe not this one in particular, but something like it:
https://www.travelchinaguide.com/cruise/regal/tour-ds406b.htm (https://www.travelchinaguide.com/cruise/regal/tour-ds406b.htm)
I've been training to climb Mount Saint Helen's next summer, and this would be a great way to see how well I'm doing. Plus... wow... what better way to see China??
That sounds perfect :cheers:
For those who have been to and/or lived in China, anything I should be concerned about when booking such a trip? Anything I should pay attention to, etc?
Quote from: merithyn on July 25, 2017, 12:40:35 PM
For those who have been to and/or lived in China, anything I should be concerned about when booking such a trip? Anything I should pay attention to, etc?
You'll need a visa. You can get it in person at the Chinese Consulate (there's one in San Francisco), but it's a lot easier just to pay someone to file for you.
I'd say the main thing is finding a reputable operator - so check out reviews etc. I'd also, in an organized tour, expect there to be at least some of the "and now we'll stop at this quaint traditional crafts store that isn't really that quaint and they sell a lot of knick-knacks and maybe you'll buy something" and take that in a stride. In general, if something seems too good to be true (like a "hey we'll take you on this tour for FREE") it usually is.
Uh... other than that, I dunno.
Meri winds up on trial for espionage in a North Korean court, you know she went the cheapo route.
Young Pioneer Tours offers budget travel to destinations your mother would rather you stayed away from.
The Democratic People's Republic of Korea finds you guilty of: NOT WORKING WELL WITH OTHERS
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 25, 2017, 01:42:35 PM
Meri winds up on trial for espionage in a North Korean court, you know she went the cheapo route.
It's way too much trouble (and expensive) to get Americans in to North Korea.
In that vein: my wife met this Irish-Chinese girl once. Her parents fled China - I think in the 80s - and paid someone to smuggle them to New York by boat. The boat put into Dublin and let them off with a "welcome to New York, good luck." Since they spoke no English it apparently took them quite a while before they realized they were not, in fact, in New York... but I get they managed okay in the end.
Young Pioneers Tours is no longer accepting Americans :(
http://www.youngpioneertours.com/north-korea-faq/
QuoteRecent cases of severe unwarranted consequences for American detainees in North Korea means we now consider the risk to Americans visiting North Korea to be too high and as such we can no longer accept Americans travelling on US passports for tours to North Korea.
Quote from: derspiess on July 25, 2017, 02:05:40 PM
Young Pioneers Tours is no longer accepting Americans :(
http://www.youngpioneertours.com/north-korea-faq/
QuoteRecent cases of severe unwarranted consequences for American detainees in North Korea means we now consider the risk to Americans visiting North Korea to be too high and as such we can no longer accept Americans travelling on US passports for tours to North Korea.
Duh. Our state department has banned us from going.
We were also banned from going to Cuba, but people had been doing that for decades by going through Mexico.
Of course, if North Korea ends up lobbing nukes left and right, it might just change things a bit for me. <_<
I expect they'll only lob them right.
Quote from: merithyn on July 25, 2017, 12:28:16 PM
Plus... wow... what better way to see China??
From Orbit as it is being nuked.
Quote from: katmai on July 25, 2017, 06:21:22 PM
No one asked you Chairman Jacob.
It's spelled Xiacob.
And given I'm the Chairman, I'm can offer my opinion whenever I deem it expedient.
Quote from: Maximus on July 25, 2017, 05:41:26 PM
I expect they'll only lob them right.
Either way, I'm pretty sure that will change my plans. Lobbed right, it's at my home. Lobbed left, it's at my destination. Kind of a no win situation for me on that.
Quote from: merithyn on July 25, 2017, 12:40:35 PM
For those who have been to and/or lived in China, anything I should be concerned about when booking such a trip? Anything I should pay attention to, etc?
Be wary. Chinese tour operators generally operate on the principle of luring the customer in with low fees, then applying hidden charges. The most common way is to get the tourist to shop in very expensive places, then receive kickbacks from the shop. Assume that all the shops they take you are traps. Try not to buy anything. If you must, just buy a very inexpensive thing to give you an excuse to leave. Your obvious tourist appearance will attract a lot of people who want to take advantage of you. Just assume that anybody who approaches you with deals or urgent family situations are trying to cheat you. Anybody who says they have a great money exchange deal for you is a liar. Anybody who says they need some change to get back to their dying loved ones is a cheater.
Mono, I live in Portland. That's what walking to work is like every day.
#homelesscapital
Quote from: Maximus on July 25, 2017, 05:41:26 PM
I expect they'll only lob them right.
They'll toss a few down as well.
One more thing. You won't have normal access to the internet in mainland China. They only let you go to sites approved by the authorities. Languish is approved; CNN is not. I tested this myself. But (so far) there are ways around this. There are places that rent out wifi hotspots that allow you to go around the firewall.
If it's important for you you can get a vpn... but probably you'll be too busy to really care.
Quote from: Jacob on July 25, 2017, 11:43:42 PM
If it's important for you you can get a vpn... but probably you'll be too busy to really care.
I plan to go radio silent for the trip. Besides, I'm pretty sure hiking down the Yangtze is going to be mostly out of satellite reach.
Created my budget and started saving for the trip. Looking to buy my tickets and apply for the Visa by mid-September. Itinerary is as follows, so far:
April 4 - Leave Portland
April 5-7 - Shanghai
April 8-13 - Hiking along the Yangtze
April 14 - Shanghai
April 15 - Fly home
Anyone wanna come? :)
... when you say hiking along the Yangtze, that is part of a guided tour group right?
Quote from: merithyn on July 27, 2017, 02:31:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 25, 2017, 11:43:42 PM
If it's important for you you can get a vpn... but probably you'll be too busy to really care.
I plan to go radio silent for the trip. Besides, I'm pretty sure hiking down the Yangtze is going to be mostly out of satellite reach.
Created my budget and started saving for the trip. Looking to buy my tickets and apply for the Visa by mid-September. Itinerary is as follows, so far:
April 4 - Leave Portland
April 5-7 - Shanghai
April 8-13 - Hiking along the Yangtze
April 14 - Shanghai
April 15 - Fly home
Anyone wanna come? :)
I suggest that you stay at least a night in Hangzhou. The West Lake is one of the most beautiful sights in China. Much better than anything you'll see in Shanghai. It is only like an hour away from Shanghai by high speed rail.
I mean, unless it is already covered in the hiking part, there are good reasons why the top Chinese leaders have their own private villas in the West Lake area.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh101%2FMonoriu%2Fsite_1334_0001-750-0-20110523143722_zpsiz2vxsob.jpg&hash=60004fddc930f21c388127c5448d1d32e5d6c8f2) (http://s62.photobucket.com/user/Monoriu/media/site_1334_0001-750-0-20110523143722_zpsiz2vxsob.jpg.html)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh101%2FMonoriu%2FWest-Lake-4_zpsyk6z2el5.jpg&hash=bc1020f6157e05573920b12565a3c5565511fea7) (http://s62.photobucket.com/user/Monoriu/media/West-Lake-4_zpsyk6z2el5.jpg.html)
Also, when you go to Shanghai, go to one of these 'Fu' restaurants. It is not cheap, but is one of the best Shanghainese restaurants in the world. Trust me, I have tried a few. 'Fu' just means happiness and fortune, and the number is the street number. It is a big group with many different outlets, and they are all named after street numbers in the JingAn district in Shanghai. Just once, try the best Shanghainese food.
https://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Restaurant_Review-g308272-d969336-Reviews-Fu_1088-Shanghai.html
For much cheaper fair, try Din Tai Fung. It is actually a Taiwanese chain that does a lot of Shanghainese dim sum. They have outlets all over the world, and is once selected by New York Times (?) as one of the top 10 restaurants in the world. It does one of the best Shanghainese dim sums in the world and in my opinion launched a revolution on the way Xiao Lung Bao is made in China.
Quote from: Jacob on July 27, 2017, 03:24:28 PM
... when you say hiking along the Yangtze, that is part of a guided tour group right?
Yes, it will be. I don't see a reason to make my first Grand Adventure (tm) something that I'll regret. :)
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 03:30:16 PM
I suggest that you stay at least a night in Hangzhou. The West Lake is one of the most beautiful sights in China. Much better than anything you'll see in Shanghai. It is only like an hour away from Shanghai by high speed rail.
Hangzhou is very south of where the tour will be. I'm not sure it's somewhere that I can go this trip. Maybe next.
Quote from: merithyn on July 27, 2017, 05:08:55 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 03:30:16 PM
I suggest that you stay at least a night in Hangzhou. The West Lake is one of the most beautiful sights in China. Much better than anything you'll see in Shanghai. It is only like an hour away from Shanghai by high speed rail.
Hangzhou is very south of where the tour will be. I'm not sure it's somewhere that I can go this trip. Maybe next.
I mean the 5-7 April in Shanghai part. If I stay in Shanghai for 3 days I am just going to eat. There isn't that much to do. Hangzhou is widely considered one of the top tourist spots in China and has a place in Chinese history. It once served as the Chinese capital. I think you are much better off spending time there rather than in Shanghai.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 05:12:07 PM
I mean the 5-7 April in Shanghai part. If I stay in Shanghai for 3 days I am just going to eat. There isn't that much to do. Hangzhou is widely considered one of the top tourist spots in China and has a place in Chinese history. It once served as the Chinese capital. I think you are much better off spending time there rather than in Shanghai.
If it's only an hour train ride, then that's probably doable. I guess it will depend where I stay in Shanghai. Worth trying to make the trip, it sounds like.
And I probably should read up a bit on Chinese history. :hmm:
Quote from: merithyn on July 27, 2017, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 05:12:07 PM
I mean the 5-7 April in Shanghai part. If I stay in Shanghai for 3 days I am just going to eat. There isn't that much to do. Hangzhou is widely considered one of the top tourist spots in China and has a place in Chinese history. It once served as the Chinese capital. I think you are much better off spending time there rather than in Shanghai.
If it's only an hour train ride, then that's probably doable. I guess it will depend where I stay in Shanghai. Worth trying to make the trip, it sounds like.
And I probably should read up a bit on Chinese history. :hmm:
You don't know when you can take such a long trip again, and you don't know if you can come to China once more. Next time maybe you'll want to go to Europe. For Shanghai, you just to go to Bund by day, and the Bund again by night. Then pick a museum or two to see. That's about it, it is just a big city with lots of skyscrappers. People go there to work and make deals, not really for sightseeing. If I go to Shanghai now I just stay in the hotel to watch anime and take a taxi to eat during meal time. I go there for the food. Hangzhou is the real tourist city.
One more suggestion for you. You can ignore this if you want, it is up to you, but it is another option to think about.
I have no idea what the hiking part includes. But consider ditching that part, and go to Beijing instead. You don't have to do this, but it is worthwhile to take a look at the possibilities. You can hike any time you want. But there is only one Forbidden City in the world, and Beijing is very close to the Great Wall of China. Beijing has been the imperial capital for centuries. I have been there many times, and I still find places that I haven't been to. Lots of great gardens and residences of imperial princes. It is a much better tourist destination than Shanghai, and I consider it a must-see for anybody who hasn't been to China.
There must have been something worth seeing in Shanghai at some point. Hollywood seems to think it the most interesting Chinese city.
QuoteDin Tai Fung
Been in the ones in Taipei, HK and Bangkok and definitely second Mono's recommendation.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 27, 2017, 04:34:03 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 03:53:36 PM
Xiao Lung Bao
Speak American dammit.
According to google translate, the English for "xiao long bao" is "xiao long bao" so in this case I think Mono is in fact speaking American.
And yes Din Tai Fung is great.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 27, 2017, 05:51:25 PM
There must have been something worth seeing in Shanghai at some point. Hollywood seems to think it the most interesting Chinese city.
A lot of the great tourist spots in China are associated with history. Shanghai is modern. Its history (by Chinese standards) is short. It is a commercial hub due to its position at the mouth of the Yangtze.
I can see why people like it. It is one of the most internationalised cities in China. Lots of expats, lots of western food and shops. The people there are better behaved, and many of them speak English. It is closer to the comfort zone of most westerners.
There are some good bits from the 30s.
Also keep in mind that for Westerners visiting China for the first time a Chinese city is going to be plenty exotic on its own terms, never mind any specific attractions.
Quote from: Jacob on July 27, 2017, 06:00:17 PM
Also keep in mind that for Westerners visiting China for the first time a Chinese city is going to be plenty exotic on its own terms, never mind any specific attractions.
What's so exotic about Chinese cities? :unsure:
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 27, 2017, 06:00:17 PM
Also keep in mind that for Westerners visiting China for the first time a Chinese city is going to be plenty exotic on its own terms, never mind any specific attractions.
What's so exotic about Chinese cities? :unsure:
Their Chineseness.
That's very insightful :P
Actually I am quite curious about it. What do you guys find exotic about Chinese cities?
Dude.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 05:30:19 PM
One more suggestion for you. You can ignore this if you want, it is up to you, but it is another option to think about.
I have no idea what the hiking part includes. But consider ditching that part, and go to Beijing instead. You don't have to do this, but it is worthwhile to take a look at the possibilities. You can hike any time you want. But there is only one Forbidden City in the world, and Beijing is very close to the Great Wall of China. Beijing has been the imperial capital for centuries. I have been there many times, and I still find places that I haven't been to. Lots of great gardens and residences of imperial princes. It is a much better tourist destination than Shanghai, and I consider it a must-see for anybody who hasn't been to China.
I'm not sure you understand the point of this trip for me, Mono. I want to go hiking along the Yangtze. The tours are to smaller villages along the river, with beautiful scenery along the way. Shanghai is a starting and stopping point, not the destination.
You're never going to understand that my goal on this trip isn't to live large on great restaurant food in nice hotels alongside ancient city streets. I really do want to walk for miles, up and down steep hills, in order to see the smaller towns, and to see the Yangtze. If I'm really intrigued enough about the rest of that stuff, I'll make a point to go back to see them another time.
Like I said, it is entirely up to you. Have a nice trip :)
The movie The Sand Pebbles popped into my head.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 05:58:32 PMIt is a commercial hub due to its position at the mouth of the Yangtze.
Seems like that would have been the case at the dawn of history as well. :hmm:
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2017, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 05:58:32 PMIt is a commercial hub due to its position at the mouth of the Yangtze.
Seems like that would have been the case at the dawn of history as well. :hmm:
Chinese Han civilisation started in the Yellow river area, and only gradually moved south. The ancient capitals were mostly on the northern side. During periods of division, the southern based dynasties mainly chose the Nanjing/Hangzhou areas as their capital, not Shanghai. Chinese just weren't that interested in the ocean.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 27, 2017, 06:56:34 PM
Actually I am quite curious about it. What do you guys find exotic about Chinese cities?
You know how you still to this day marvel at the strange ways of the city of Vancouver and the West in general, even though you lived there for years, were educated in a Western system, and have had serious exposure to Western media?
Now imagine you'd never been to anywhere in the West at all. Imagine you'd never had significant exposure to Western culture beyond eating at McDonalds once in a while. And imagine you didn't speak English or any other Western languages. Furthermore, imagine that you were actually interested in other people. It's like that. It's interesting and new.
So it's basically the marvel you still express at the weird ways of Westerners but a couple of orders of magnitude stronger, filtered through the eyes of someone who is actually interested in other cultures and places in the world beyond shopping and eating.
Why's everyone always picking on Mono? :(
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2017, 11:27:48 PM
Why's everyone always picking on Mono? :(
I'm used to it :lol:
Riley is interested in going, and she's suggested Greece.
Thoughts?
Quote from: merithyn on August 22, 2017, 06:00:37 PM
Riley is interested in going, and she's suggested Greece.
Thoughts?
That's a long hike.
Quote from: merithyn on August 22, 2017, 06:00:37 PM
Riley is interested in going, and she's suggested Greece.
Thoughts?
We went to Greece many years ago. At that time we weren't used to planning trips, so we made lots of mistakes. Biggest one was we stayed in Athens for far too long. We thought taking a cruise was sufficient to fulfill the 'Greek island' thing. Athens was nice, but only for 2-3 days max. Should have actually stayed in the Greek islands. Should have visited and stayed in other Greek cities. Also, don't go during Christmas.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2017, 11:27:48 PM
Why's everyone always picking on Mono? :(
It's ok to bully mono, he's just Chinese, but god help us if he was a black author.
Bits interested in going meri? Or are they past the age where they don't want to travel with mom?
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2017, 08:22:14 PM
Bits interested in going meri? Or are they past the age where they don't want to travel with mom?
I don't invite them. This is a mother-daughter thing.
That being said, I still owe Jerome a trip out of the country. :hmm:
Quote from: Monoriu on August 22, 2017, 08:12:29 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 22, 2017, 06:00:37 PM
Riley is interested in going, and she's suggested Greece.
Thoughts?
We went to Greece many years ago. At that time we weren't used to planning trips, so we made lots of mistakes. Biggest one was we stayed in Athens for far too long. We thought taking a cruise was sufficient to fulfill the 'Greek island' thing. Athens was nice, but only for 2-3 days max. Should have actually stayed in the Greek islands. Should have visited and stayed in other Greek cities. Also, don't go during Christmas.
Thanks. This is helpful.
Quote from: merithyn on August 22, 2017, 06:00:37 PM
Riley is interested in going, and she's suggested Greece.
Thoughts?
Just came back from northern Greece. It's glorious, like the rest of the country.
If I ever retire abroad it will be a toss up between Greece and Italy, Greece may have the edge now.
Don't go in summer, though. It's stupid hot.
Wherever we go, it will be in March.
Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2017, 02:47:55 AM
Wherever we go, it will be in March.
That's perfect for Greece, if possible try to be there at Easter (Julian calendar).
Very interesting time with good food and beautiful ceremonies, and you get to fire rockets at churches. :cool:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F04%2F12%2F19%2F277E91A200000578-3035675-image-a-31_1428863443842.jpg&hash=22e31561282aad391347fafbfcca151843417f7c)