lol, civil rights.
QuoteU.S.
Justice Dept. Drops a Key Objection to a Texas Voter ID Law
By MANNY FERNANDEZ and ERIC LICHTBLAU
The Failing New York Times
FEB. 27, 2017
HOUSTON — The Justice Department on Monday dropped a crucial objection to Texas' strict voter-identification law, signaling a significant change from the Obama administration on voting-rights issues.
The Republican-led Texas Legislature passed one of the toughest voter ID laws in the country in 2011, requiring voters to show a driver's license, passport or other government-issued photo ID before casting a ballot.
The Obama administration's Justice Department sued Texas to block the law in 2013 and scored a major victory last year after a federal appeals court ruled that the law needed to be softened because it discriminated against minority voters who lacked the required IDs.
Opponents of the law said Republican lawmakers selected IDs that were most advantageous for Republican-leaning white voters and discarded IDs that were beneficial to Democratic-leaning minority voters. For example, legislators included licenses to carry concealed handguns, which are predominantly carried by whites, and excluded government employee IDs and public university IDs, which are more likely to be used by blacks, Hispanics and Democratic-leaning younger voters.
But the Justice Department under President Trump and Attorney General Jeff Sessions told a judge on Monday that it was withdrawing its claim that Texas enacted the law with a discriminatory intent.
The Justice Department remains a party in the case. But it is pulling back at a crucial phase. If a judge finds the state acted with discriminatory intent, as the Justice Department and other plaintiffs have alleged, Texas could be forced to seek federal approval before it makes any changes to its voting laws or procedures. That would have major impacts on voting rules in Texas and be a potent symbol of the ability of the federal government to be a major brake on voting discrimination nationally.
"This is a complete 180-degree turn," said Danielle Lang, a lawyer for the Campaign Legal Center, one of the groups that sued Texas and represents some of the Justice Department's fellow plaintiffs in the voter ID case. Under the Obama administration, she added, the Justice Department was "fully committed to the case."
"They were full partners," Ms. Lang said. "This was their case as much as ours."
The Texas Legislature is considering a new voter ID bill that will allow those who have difficulty obtaining the appropriate IDs to vote as long as they sign an affidavit and show more widely available types of identification, including a utility bill or a bank statement. In documents filed on Monday, the Justice Department said that in light of the recently filed bill, it was withdrawing its discriminatory-intent claim to allow "the Texas Legislature the opportunity to rectify any alleged infirmities with its voter identification law."
The agency added that the Supreme Court has emphasized that "federal courts should allow state legislatures the first opportunity to remedy voting rights violations."
The decision was the second time in a week that the Trump administration retreated from the Justice Department's stance in a major civil rights case. One week ago, the department — with the backing of Mr. Trump — withdrew a policy imposed by the Obama administration to give federal anti-discrimination protections to transgender students in schools. Mr. Sessions, who was battered by Democrats at his confirmation hearing over his opposition in the Senate to some voting and civil rights measures, pushed for the reversal on the transgender issue over the objections of Betsy DeVos, the education secretary, officials said.
The reversal in the Texas case was all the more striking because it came just three months after the Justice Department, under the Obama administration, filed a brief arguing on behalf of the very issue it backed away from Monday — that the Legislature intentionally sought to discriminate when it approved the law.
Under the Trump administration, the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department is expected to undergo the most severe shift in philosophy of any section under the Trump administration, and Mr. Sessions appears to be quickly meeting those expectations. On a number of civil rights and voting measures during his days in the United States Senate, Mr. Sessions saw the federal government as improperly meddling in issues he said should best be left to the states.
Mr. Sessions took that same states' rights approach last week on the transgender issue, saying the Obama administration had overreached.
Other important voting rights decisions loom for the Justice Department. Perhaps the most closely watched is in North Carolina, where the courts have ruled that a voting measure was devised specifically to disenfranchise minorities. The Justice Department under the Obama administration helped fight to overturn the law, but Mr. Sessions has not said what he will do.
The move on Monday in Texas came before a federal judge in Corpus Christi was scheduled to hear arguments on the discriminatory-intent issue on Tuesday.
The case will proceed because the parties that sued Texas — including voters, elected officials, civil rights organizations and black and Hispanic advocacy groups — will continue the lawsuit.
"We stay the course," said Kristen Clarke, the president and executive director of the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, which is part of the legal team representing the Texas branch of the N.A.A.C.P. and the Mexican American Legislative Caucus.
But the reversal by the Justice Department — after a team of lawyers in the Civil Rights Division spent more than three years and more than $1 million on the case — angered Texas Democrats and advocates for voting rights. The Justice Department's involvement in Texas' voter ID law predates the lawsuit it filed against the state in 2013. The agency has been formally reviewing the law for nearly six years, starting in 2011, and made its first official objection to aspects of it in March 2012.
"I am appalled and disgusted that D.O.J. would abandon their claims, that they have advocated for years, that Texas' photo ID law was enacted with a racially discriminatory purpose," said J. Gerald Hebert, a lawyer who represents several of those who sued Texas, including the League of United Latin American Citizens and Marc Veasey, a Democratic Texas congressman who is African-American.
Officials from the Justice Department and the Texas attorney general's office declined to comment on the case.
In July, the most conservative federal appeals court in the country — the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, in New Orleans — found that the law had a discriminatory effect on minority voters and set in motion a loosening of the ID rules for the November elections.
The judge in Corpus Christi — Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos, of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas, who oversaw a trial on the voter ID case in 2014 — is weighing the evidence on whether Texas enacted the law with a racially discriminatory intent.
If the judge finds discriminatory intent, Texas could be forced to seek federal approval before it makes any changes to its voting laws or procedures. For decades, Texas and several other mostly Southern states with a history of discrimination had been required to seek advance federal approval before making changes to their voting laws. But Texas and the other states were freed from that requirement in 2013, after a Supreme Court decision that invalidated key provisions of the Voting Rights Act. A finding of intentional discrimination, however, could once again put Texas under federal supervision, making it the first state brought back into so-called preclearance since the Supreme Court's 2013 ruling.
The Texas attorney general, Ken Paxton, as well as his predecessor, Greg Abbott, who is now governor, have denied that the Legislature intentionally discriminated against minority voters, arguing that the law was aimed at preventing voter fraud.
But critics say the law has more to do with suppressing the turnout of those likely to vote Democratic than preventing fraud.
Whatever the case, Richard L. Hasen, a law professor at the University of California, Irvine, and an election-law expert, said he saw the Justice Department's action on Monday as "a sign of things to come."
"This is the first step in what I expect to be a series of steps, with D.O.J. siding with the state of Texas," he said. He added that by remaining in the case, the Justice Department "could actually do Texas more good than by getting out."
They don't accept government employee IDs but take concealed carry? Jesus :lol:
Solution: mass arming of all minority groups in Texas. Everyone wins.
Was it P.G.T. Barnum or LGBT Beauregard? Can't remember which.
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 28, 2017, 10:37:20 AM
They don't accept government employee IDs but take concealed carry? Jesus :lol:
Concealed carry licenses are issued by DPS, just like a drivers license (they apparently even look like DLs). Student IDs and government employee IDs are not and are all different.
My state government employee ID is issued by UTPD in a little room next to the book store, and is identical to the student IDs, aside from one colored bar at the bottom. UTSA IDs are also issued by UTPD, but are completely different from mine, despite being the same university system. Val's old IDs are going to be different from both, despite being the flagship of that system. There is more than one public system with multiple universities here. Then you start getting into all the little private schools. My student ID from St Mary's was a laminated piece of paper and the one from Incarnate Word didn't even have my photo on it.
E: Oh and not all of the students and employee-ish types like postdocs with these IDs are citizens. E2: I went and looked. Postdocs have the same badge color as I do. They aren't students and aren't faculty, same as me. There are also a whole shitload of them that aren't citizens.
I don't get the government employee ID thing though. I mean you have to prove citizenship or right to work to get one. Why wouldn't that work?
Granted if you have one of those you probably also have a drivers license.
Texas actually makes it pretty easy to vote with their long early voting periods though so I have a hard time being too outraged.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 07:15:51 PM
I don't get the government employee ID thing though. I mean you have to prove citizenship or right to work to get one. Why wouldn't that work?
Because true Republicans don't work for the government. ;)
Most likely: government jobs are in the cities (like Austin, I guess) and people in the bigger cities tend to vote Democrat, not Republican.
Quote
Granted if you have one of those you probably also have a drivers license.
I'm guessing that like most of the civilized world, if you live downtown you don't really need a car?
Texas actually makes it pretty easy to vote with their long early voting periods though so I have a hard time being too outraged.
[/quote]
Quote from: viper37 on February 28, 2017, 07:20:06 PM
I'm guessing that like most of the civilized world, if you live downtown you don't really need a car?
We didn't really have cities before the invention of the car so they were never designed otherwise.
Even if you did live downtown you cannot really walk to the government area around 18th street.
Real Americans drive. :mad:
if the courts clear it, then why not? if it gets past the courts, then it's completely up to the state. if it goes beyond mere allegations / isolated instances of voters having problems voting and voters are actually suppressed on a wide scale, then the people will won't stand for it. hundreds of thousands of people being denied the right to vote would cause a huge uproar by everyone across the board
Quote from: LaCroix on February 28, 2017, 07:27:16 PM
if the courts clear it, then why not? if it gets past the courts, then it's completely up to the state. if it goes beyond mere allegations / isolated instances of voters having problems voting and voters are actually suppressed on a wide scale, then the people will won't stand for it. hundreds of thousands of people being denied the right to vote would cause a huge uproar by everyone across the board
I think it has caused a pretty big uproar :P
But in any case we have not actually had an election under the new rules yet. The results should speak for themselves.
nah, none of these "voter suppression" laws have resulted in a massive impact. a few thousand, sure, I can believe that, but not hundreds of thousands.
every state has laws that piss people off. every state has laws that groups within that state think are unfair. this is no different. if it's constitutional and in compliance with the federal government, let the state do as it will.
Easy for you to say. You live in a state where you can just wander in and vote without even registering.
voter ID laws, at worst, impacts the communities that barely care about voting that odds are they probably wouldn't have voted anyway in an average election. first time voters who don't read up on what they need, etc. the voter suppression arguments overlook the fact that this info will be spread in the local communities. "remember, everyone, get yourself registered to vote!" = probably at least half the black pastors/mexican priests, etc.
if a person truly cares about politics, he'll get registered to vote. communities band together to convince people to vote. if people are actually not voting, it's usually because their community doesn't care. they weren't going to vote regardless of "voter suppression" laws.
Quote from: LaCroix on February 28, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
if a person truly cares about politics, he'll get registered to vote. communities band together to convince people to vote. if people are actually not voting, it's usually because their community doesn't care. they weren't going to vote regardless of "voter suppression" laws.
True. But we are talking about people who are already registered to vote.
Anyway this does not impact me at all. I am only observing outrage from people who claim it hurts their communities so I cannot speak for them since I have a rather poor grasp on their issues.
Quote from: LaCroix on February 28, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
voter ID laws, at worst, impacts the communities that barely care about voting that odds are they probably wouldn't have voted anyway in an average election. first time voters who don't read up on what they need, etc. the voter suppression arguments overlook the fact that this info will be spread in the local communities. "remember, everyone, get yourself registered to vote!" = probably at least half the black pastors/mexican priests, etc.
if a person truly cares about politics, he'll get registered to vote. communities band together to convince people to vote. if people are actually not voting, it's usually because their community doesn't care. they weren't going to vote regardless of "voter suppression" laws.
I just voted, 1 to 0. You're right, I feel empowered.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 07:15:51 PM
I don't get the government employee ID thing though. I mean you have to prove citizenship or right to work to get one. Why wouldn't that work?
Granted if you have one of those you probably also have a drivers license.
Texas actually makes it pretty easy to vote with their long early voting periods though so I have a hard time being too outraged.
State gov't employee IDs can be given to non-citizens. I don't know how the feds work with regards to citizenship (I don't know what kind of IDs these people would get, for example: https://www.usajobs.gov/Help/working-in-government/non-citizens/), but the state will take all this stuff if you want to vote:
QuoteHere is a list of the acceptable forms of photo ID:
Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
Texas license to carry a handgun issued by DPS
United States military identification card containing the person's photograph
United States citizenship certificate containing the person's photograph
United States passport
With the exception of the U.S. citizenship certificate, the identification must be current or have expired no more than 4 years before being presented for voter qualification at the polling place.
Election Identification Certificates are available from DPS driver license offices during regular business hours. Find mobile station locations here.
Here is a list of the supporting forms of ID that can be presented if the voter does not possess one of the forms of acceptable photo ID and cannot obtain one due to a reasonable impediment:
Valid voter registration certificate
Certified birth certificate (must be an original)
Copy of or original current utility bill
Copy of or original bank statement
Copy of or original government check
Copy of or original paycheck
Copy of or original government document with your name and an address (original required if it contains a photograph)
After presenting a supporting form of ID, the voter must execute a Reasonable Impediment Declaration.
So a "government document" with your name and address on it would work (or any of that other shit in the second section). You would also apparently have to sign a thing saying why you can't get one of the top seven IDs. They're wanting stuff with your name and address on it.
E: That Election Identification Certificate is the free one, I believe.
Um pretty sure non-citizens can get drivers licenses. That is why they are not considered a proof of citizenship when applying for a job.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:14:40 PM
Um pretty sure non-citizens can get drivers licenses. That is why they are not considered a proof of citizenship when applying for a job.
Exactly.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 28, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
voter ID laws, at worst, impacts the communities that barely care about voting that odds are they probably wouldn't have voted anyway in an average election. first time voters who don't read up on what they need, etc. the voter suppression arguments overlook the fact that this info will be spread in the local communities. "remember, everyone, get yourself registered to vote!" = probably at least half the black pastors/mexican priests, etc.
if a person truly cares about politics, he'll get registered to vote. communities band together to convince people to vote. if people are actually not voting, it's usually because their community doesn't care. they weren't going to vote regardless of "voter suppression" laws.
I just voted, 1 to 0. You're right, I feel empowered.
Oh, come on.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 28, 2017, 08:19:15 PM
Oh, come on.
Fuck his silliness.
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/S348XbBQscSikqqrPcuMCbNbYug=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7408289/polling_place_closures.png)
And it's not because communities don't care. Fucking asshole.
Yeah the closing of the polls is the main thing that irritates me.
But, again, fortunately the state has very generous early voting. Hopefully that is not taken away. But even for early voting in this most recent election I was standing in a very long line to vote thanks to the reduction in polling places. It must have been a nightmare on election day.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:14:40 PM
Um pretty sure non-citizens can get drivers licenses. That is why they are not considered a proof of citizenship when applying for a job.
Congrats, you have found the loophole that may allow permanent residents who bothered to get a SSN to vote in elections in Texas, depending on what they say on them. I'm not really worried about those people going and voting though. They probably care more about it than I do anyway. The limited term DLs don't work though, so that's a bummer for temporary visitors.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:24:49 PM
Yeah the closing of the polls is the main thing that irritates me.
But, again, fortunately the state has very generous early voting. Hopefully that is not taken away. But even for early voting in this most recent election I was standing in a very long line to vote thanks to the reduction in polling places. It must have been a nightmare on election day.
There's an early voting place that I go to (when I bother) that is located in....it's not an
abandoned mall, but the big store there is Burlington Coat Factory, soooooo......anyway, it's one of those walk in, vote, walk out kind of places where the workers are super bored and all that.
Formerly Crossroads mall. If you're ever in the area, don't go. There's nothing there. Well unless you want a coat, I guess.
E: Oh there is a little movie theater there that shows the not so mainstream movies, so it has that going for it. Alamo Drafthouse is better for that though. vOv
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 28, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
voter ID laws, at worst, impacts the communities that barely care about voting that odds are they probably wouldn't have voted anyway in an average election. first time voters who don't read up on what they need, etc. the voter suppression arguments overlook the fact that this info will be spread in the local communities. "remember, everyone, get yourself registered to vote!" = probably at least half the black pastors/mexican priests, etc.
if a person truly cares about politics, he'll get registered to vote. communities band together to convince people to vote. if people are actually not voting, it's usually because their community doesn't care. they weren't going to vote regardless of "voter suppression" laws.
I just voted, 1 to 0. You're right, I feel empowered.
ah come on...
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 28, 2017, 08:25:30 PM
Congrats, you have found the loophole that may allow permanent residents who bothered to get a SSN to vote in elections in Texas, depending on what they say on them.
What did Texas require from voters to verify their identity as mandated by law before?
Well I think Seedy has been pummeled enough so I shall say nothing -_-
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:35:33 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 28, 2017, 08:25:30 PM
Congrats, you have found the loophole that may allow permanent residents who bothered to get a SSN to vote in elections in Texas, depending on what they say on them.
What did Texas require from voters to verify their identity as mandated by law before?
Uh...for registering? I don't recall actually. Which is weird because if they made me bring in my passport, or whatever, I would remember. But I did register back in 1995.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 28, 2017, 08:31:56 PM
E: Oh there is a little movie theater there that shows the not so mainstream movies, so it has that going for it. Alamo Drafthouse is better for that though. vOv
There were only a small number of early voting locations this time around for some reason. At least in my part of Austin.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:35:33 PM
What did Texas require from voters to verify their identity as mandated by law before?
In the last couple pres. elections they wanted the shit on that list.
Before that, you got a registration card mailed to you and you just show up at the place and tell them your name and they check you off on a list.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:35:55 PM
Well I think Seedy has been pummeled enough so I shall say nothing -_-
No, fuck that asshole. I'm not putting up with his bullshit trolling tonight. Fucking Voting Rights Act gets rolled back, and he's going to blame voters. Fuck his shit. Not tonight.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 28, 2017, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:35:33 PM
What did Texas require from voters to verify their identity as mandated by law before?
In the last couple pres. elections they wanted the shit on that list.
Before that, you got a registration card mailed to you and you just show up at the place and tell them your name and they check you off on a list.
I don't think that is right. I have brought my ID all ready to accommodate the effort to suppress voters but nobody has asked to see it I don't think. I would just hand them my voters registration.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:37:55 PM
There were only a small number of early voting locations this time around for some reason. At least in my part of Austin.
That's shitty. I haven't noticed much of a drop here in this area. The early mall one was still there, and then the two at nearby schools (elementary school in my neighborhood for me, and then one down the road for the next district over) were naturally still there.
For the 2000 election, my voting place was in a Whole Foods. :D I wonder if that one is still there. Some horrible place called Sprouts took over that location.
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:40:47 PM
I don't think that is right. I have brought my ID all ready to accommodate the effort to suppress voters but nobody has asked to see it I don't think. I would just hand them my voters registration.
My rights were trampled then, because they asked.
E: Although I never needed even the registration card before that. Just told them my name.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 28, 2017, 08:42:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:37:55 PM
There were only a small number of early voting locations this time around for some reason. At least in my part of Austin.
That's shitty. I haven't noticed much of a drop here in this area.
All the polling stations closed in Texas since Shelby were only in half the state's counties.
Besides, you guys are white.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 28, 2017, 08:45:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:40:47 PM
I don't think that is right. I have brought my ID all ready to accommodate the effort to suppress voters but nobody has asked to see it I don't think. I would just hand them my voters registration.
My rights were trampled then, because they asked.
E: Although I never needed even the registration card before that. Just told them my name.
Profiled :nelson: What with looking so ethnic and all.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:47:34 PM
All the polling stations closed in Texas since Shelby were only in half the state's counties.
Besides, you guys are white.
White people are minorities just about everywhere in San Antonio, including where I live. ;)
Alamo Heights is it's own place. White people run that joint.
e:
QuoteProfiled :nelson: What with looking so ethnic and all.
:cool:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 28, 2017, 08:42:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:37:55 PM
There were only a small number of early voting locations this time around for some reason. At least in my part of Austin.
That's shitty. I haven't noticed much of a drop here in this area. The early mall one was still there, and then the two at nearby schools (elementary school in my neighborhood for me, and then one down the road for the next district over) were naturally still there.
For the 2000 election, my voting place was in a Whole Foods. :D I wonder if that one is still there. Some horrible place called Sprouts took over that location.
I think they're basically the same thing, overpriced organic shit.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 28, 2017, 09:02:23 PM
I think they're basically the same thing, overpriced organic shit.
The first, and only, time I went into that Sprouts place, there seemed to be a very large amount of expired stuff on the shelves. I don't remember Whole Foods (or Sun Harvest, another hippy grocery store that was in that same location before both of them) being like that, although to be fair, I didn't go there much either.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:39:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:35:55 PM
Well I think Seedy has been pummeled enough so I shall say nothing -_-
No, fuck that asshole. I'm not putting up with his bullshit trolling tonight. Fucking Voting Rights Act gets rolled back, and he's going to blame voters. Fuck his shit. Not tonight.
Makes sense to kick him out to me. I don't know, maybe if he wanted to post a genuine thought for once.
I've known him for a very long time, and feel safe saying his genuine thoughts aren't much more endearing.
I think his posts on languish are an interesting case, though- Without ever necessarily thinking Trump was the right choice, he supports him in the name of contrarianism, antagonism, and his own amusement. But the reactions he gets, while doubtlessly amusing to him personally, I believe have served to push him closer to actually believing half the things he says and into the Trump orbit.
Writ large, I believe that may be happening around the country with young white Trump supporters who enjoy shocking and horrifying people with their support for the President, but especially in the Midwest. A great deal of Trump "supporters" who really just want to laugh at how much cleverer they are than the people around them are joking their way to becoming actual supporters.
Maybe something about mocking others and being universally reviled for your insincerely held opinions is close enough to the actual Trump experience that it ignites a special empathy for the man?
Don't you have an aircraft carrier to crash into or something? STFU.
Lettow, do you know lacrosse outside languish? :huh:
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 01, 2017, 05:43:44 AM
I've known him for a very long time, and feel safe saying his genuine thoughts aren't much more endearing.
I think his posts on languish are an interesting case, though- Without ever necessarily thinking Trump was the right choice, he supports him in the name of contrarianism, antagonism, and his own amusement. But the reactions he gets, while doubtlessly amusing to him personally, I believe have served to push him closer to actually believing half the things he says and into the Trump orbit.
Writ large, I believe that may be happening around the country with young white Trump supporters who enjoy shocking and horrifying people with their support for the President, but especially in the Midwest. A great deal of Trump "supporters" who really just want to laugh at how much cleverer they are than the people around them are joking their way to becoming actual supporters.
Maybe something about mocking others and being universally reviled for your insincerely held opinions is close enough to the actual Trump experience that it ignites a special empathy for the man?
lots wrong here
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 08:39:28 PMNo, fuck that asshole. I'm not putting up with his bullshit trolling tonight. Fucking Voting Rights Act gets rolled back, and he's going to blame voters. Fuck his shit. Not tonight.
I was posting this last night when I received notice that I was banned.
this is an anti-voter ID study that concedes studies show no evidence of actual impact re voter turnout. the study then goes on to make dubious claims such as "but
our study is different, and we use a special technique, and it just so happens to support our agenda." the study shows its bias in several ways, such as making claims it can't backup and using sources out of context.
http://pages.ucsd.edu/~zhajnal/page5/documents/VoterIDLawsSuppressionofMinorityVoters.pdf.
Quote"Although there are many reasons to suspect that these laws could harm groups like racial minorities and the poor, existing studies have generally failed to demonstrate a link between voter ID laws and voter turnout among these groups."
if I'm "trolling," then you're trolling. there's not much difference between the average 20+ posts you make a day and the 1-2 I make a day. you just don't like the political beliefs I express, and that's it.
The Europeans, Canadians and pussies that don't like to see you banned are far outnumbered by everybody else that would rather see you catch on fire and jump from a skyscraper because you're a simpleton and a tool.
So I will continue to ban you when you act stupid. And no, I don't like your political beliefs, because you have none. You're just a lollertroll.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 01, 2017, 05:43:44 AM
I've known him for a very long time, and feel safe saying his genuine thoughts aren't much more endearing.
I think his posts on languish are an interesting case, though- Without ever necessarily thinking Trump was the right choice, he supports him in the name of contrarianism, antagonism, and his own amusement. But the reactions he gets, while doubtlessly amusing to him personally, I believe have served to push him closer to actually believing half the things he says and into the Trump orbit.
Writ large, I believe that may be happening around the country with young white Trump supporters who enjoy shocking and horrifying people with their support for the President, but especially in the Midwest. A great deal of Trump "supporters" who really just want to laugh at how much cleverer they are than the people around them are joking their way to becoming actual supporters.
Maybe something about mocking others and being universally reviled for your insincerely held opinions is close enough to the actual Trump experience that it ignites a special empathy for the man?
Lettow, thanks for the thoughtful post, I think you're definitely onto something here.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 01, 2017, 08:07:30 AM
The Europeans, Canadians and pussies that don't like to see you banned are far outnumbered by everybody else that would rather see you catch on fire and jump from a skyscraper because you're a simpleton and a tool.
So I will continue to ban you when you act stupid. And no, I don't like your political beliefs, because you have none. You're just a lollertroll.
you banned me for making a valid argument. and I've never trolled on this board. If I'm a lollertroll, then so are you.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 01, 2017, 08:07:30 AM
The Europeans, Canadians and pussies that don't like to see you banned are far outnumbered by everybody else that would rather see you catch on fire and jump from a skyscraper because you're a simpleton and a tool.
So I will continue to ban you when you act stupid. And no, I don't like your political beliefs, because you have none. You're just a lollertroll.
:hug:
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 01, 2017, 05:43:44 AM
I've known him for a very long time, and feel safe saying his genuine thoughts aren't much more endearing.
I think his posts on languish are an interesting case, though- Without ever necessarily thinking Trump was the right choice, he supports him in the name of contrarianism, antagonism, and his own amusement. But the reactions he gets, while doubtlessly amusing to him personally, I believe have served to push him closer to actually believing half the things he says and into the Trump orbit.
Writ large, I believe that may be happening around the country with young white Trump supporters who enjoy shocking and horrifying people with their support for the President, but especially in the Midwest. A great deal of Trump "supporters" who really just want to laugh at how much cleverer they are than the people around them are joking their way to becoming actual supporters.
Maybe something about mocking others and being universally reviled for your insincerely held opinions is close enough to the actual Trump experience that it ignites a special empathy for the man?
Your mask slipped a bit here, but that's okay. This is good stuff.
Quote from: grumbler on March 01, 2017, 09:04:01 AM
Your mask slipped a bit here, but that's okay.
What did he mean by this?
Quote from: LaCroix on March 01, 2017, 08:29:54 AM
you banned me for making a valid argument. and I've never trolled on this board. If I'm a lollertroll, then so are you.
Never said I wasn't, fuckstick. But this is my litter box, and I have super-absorbent clumping mod powers.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 01, 2017, 09:15:17 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 01, 2017, 09:04:01 AM
Your mask slipped a bit here, but that's okay.
What did he mean by this?
You didn't post in your usual (and unique) style. You posted like you were just another poster.
I don't mind that you posted like an ordinary poster, but will say I prefer your Lettow persona. That style adds flavor to the board that boring posters like me don't.
Grumbler speaks in antebellum Virginian with a slight, effervescent hint of Carolina lilt, but types like CPO Sharkey.