QuoteMeet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting
He's expected to reward the band of surrogates who stood by him.
By Nancy Cook and Andrew Restuccia
11/09/16 02:56 AM EST
Politico.com
President-elect Donald Trump does not have the traditional cadre of Washington insiders and donors to build out his Cabinet, but his transition team has spent the past several months quietly building a short list of industry titans and conservative activists who could comprise one of the more eclectic and controversial presidential Cabinets in modern history.
Trumpworld has started with a mandate to hire from the private sector whenever possible. That's why the Trump campaign is seriously considering Forrest Lucas, the 74-year-old co-founder of oil products company Lucas Oil, as a top contender for Interior secretary, or donor and Goldman Sachs veteran Steven Mnuchin as Treasury secretary.
He's also expected to reward the band of surrogates who stood by him during the bruising presidential campaign, including Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie, all of whom are being considered for top posts. A handful of Republican politicians may also make the cut, including Sen. Bob Corker for secretary of state or Sen. Jeff Sessions for secretary of defense.
Trump's divisive campaign may make it difficult for him to attract top talent, especially since so many politicians and wonks openly derided the president-elect over the past year. And Trump campaign officials have worried privately that they will have difficulty finding high-profile women to serve in his cabinet, according to a person familiar with the campaign's internal discussions, given Trump's past comments about women.
Still, two Trump transition officials said they received an influx of phone calls and emails in recent weeks, as the polls tightened and a Trump White House seemed more within reach.
So far, the Trump campaign and transition teams have been tight-lipped about their picks. (The Trump campaign has declined to confirm cabinet speculation.) But here's the buzz from POLITICO's conversations with policy experts, lobbyists, academics, congressional staffers and people close to Trump.
Secretary of state
Former House Speaker Gingrich, a leading Trump supporter, is a candidate for the job, as is Corker, current chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The Tennessee senator has said he'd "strongly consider" serving as secretary of state.
Trump is also eyeing former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton.
Treasury secretary
Trump himself has indicated that he wants to give the Treasury secretary job to his finance chairman, Mnuchin, a 17-year-veteran of Goldman Sachs who now works as the chairman and chief executive of the private investment firm Dune Capital Management. Mnuchin has also worked for OneWest Bank, which was later sold to CIT Group in 2015.
Secretary of defense
Among the Republican defense officials who could join the Trump administration: Sessions (R-Ala.), a close adviser, has been discussed as a potential defense secretary. Former National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and former Sen. Jim Talent (R-Mo.) have also been mentioned as potential candidates.
Top Trump confidant retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, would need a waiver from Congress to become defense secretary, as the law requires retired military officers to wait seven years before becoming the civilian leader of the Pentagon. But Trump's chief military adviser is likely to wind up in some senior administration post, potentially national security adviser. And other early endorsers, like Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), could be in line for top posts as well.
Attorney general
People close to Trump say former New York City Mayor Giuliani, one of Trump's leading public defenders, is the leading candidate for attorney general. New Jersey Gov. Christie, another vocal Trump supporter and the head of the president-elect's transition team, is also a contender for the job — though any role in the cabinet for Christie could be threatened by the Bridgegate scandal.
Another possibility: Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, though the controversy over Trump's donation to Bondi could undercut her nomination.
Interior secretary
Lucas, the 74-year-old co-founder of oil products company Lucas Oil, is seen as a top contender for Interior secretary.
Trump's presidential transition team is also eyeing venture capitalist Robert Grady, a George H.W. Bush White House official with ties to Christie. And Trump's son Donald Trump Jr., is said to be interested in the job.
Meanwhile, a person who spoke to the Trump campaign told POLITICO that the aides have also discussed tapping Sarah Palin for Interior secretary. Trump has said he'd like to put Palin in his cabinet, and Palin has made no secret of her interest.
Other possible candidates include former Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer; Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin; Wyoming Rep. Cynthia Lummis; and Oklahoma oilman Harold Hamm.
Agriculture secretary
There are several names being considered by Trump aides for agriculture secretary, according to multiple sources familiar with the transition. The president-elect has a deep bench to pull from, with nearly 70 leaders on his agricultural advisory committee.
The most controversial name on the transition's current short list is Sid Miller, the current secretary of agriculture in Texas, who caused a firestorm just days ago after his campaign's Twitter account referred to Hillary Clinton as a "c---." Miller said it was a staffer mistake and apologized.
Other names include Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback; former Nebraska Gov. Dave Heineman; former Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue; and former Texas Gov. Rick Perry; as well as Charles Herbster, Republican donor and agribusiness leader; and Mike McCloskey, a major dairy executive in Indiana, according to Arabella Advisors, a firm that advises top foundations and closely tracked both transition efforts.
Bruce Rastetter, a major Republican donor in Iowa, and Kip Tom, a farmer who ran for Congress in Indiana this year but was defeated in the primary, are also among those being considered, Arabella said.
Other top Republican insiders expect that Chuck Connor, president and CEO of the National Council of Farmer Cooperatives; Don Villwock, president of the Indiana Farm Bureau; and Ted McKinney, current director of the Indiana Department of Agriculture in administration of Gov. Mike Pence, are also likely to be in the running for the post.
Commerce secretary
Trump is expected to look to the business community for this job.
Billionaire investor Wilbur Ross, a Trump economic adviser, could fit the bill. Dan DiMicco, former CEO of steelmaker Nucor Corp and a Trump trade adviser, is another possibility.
Trump is said to also be considering former Texas Gov. Perry, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and even Christie for the job.
Labor secretary
As with many Cabinet posts under Trump, the campaign and transition staff have been looking for a CEO or executive to lead the Labor Department. One name being bandied about is Victoria Lipnic, commissioner of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission since 2010. She also served as an assistant secretary of labor for employment standards from 2002 until 2009. The Mitt Romney transition team reportedly also considered her for a top labor post in 2012.
Health and Human Services secretary
Among the names receiving buzz: Florida Gov. Rick Scott, Gingrich and Ben Carson, a former GOP presidential candidate. Carson has received the most attention lately for HHS, even from Trump himself.
At a recent anti-Obamacare rally, Trump went out of his way to praise Carson by calling him a "brilliant" physician. "I hope that he will be very much involved in my administration in the coming years," Trump said.
One longer shot would be Rich Bagger, executive director of the Trump transition team and a former pharmaceutical executive who led, behind closed doors, many of the meetings this fall with health care industry donors and executives.
Energy secretary
Continental Resources CEO Hamm has long been seen as a leading candidate for energy secretary. Hamm, an Oklahoma billionaire who has been a friend of Trump's for years, has been the leading influence on Trump's energy policy during the campaign.
If Hamm passes, venture capitalist Robert Grady is also seen as a top candidate, though he could also be in line for Interior.
Education secretary
Trump has made clear the Education Department would play a reduced role in his administration — if it exists at all. He has suggested he may try to do away with it altogether.
The GOP nominee has also offered a few hints about who he would pick to lead the department while it's still around. Among those who may be on the shortlist is Carson, the retired neurosurgeon who ran against Trump in the primary but later endorsed the Republican presidential candidate. Education Insider, a monthly survey of congressional staff, federal officials and other "insiders," said in May that Carson was Trump's most likely pick.
Another possible education secretary under Trump is William Evers, a research fellow at the Hoover Institution who has worked on education matters for the Trump transition team. Evers worked at the Education Department during the Bush administration and served as a senior adviser to then-Education Secretary Margaret Spellings.
Veterans Affairs secretary
The name most commonly mentioned for Veterans Affairs secretary is House Veterans' Affairs Chairman Jeff Miller, who's retiring from the House and was an early Trump backer.
Homeland Security secretary
One person close to Trump's campaign said David Clarke, the conservative sheriff of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin, is a possible candidate for Homeland Security secretary. Clarke has cultivated a devoted following on the right, and he spoke at the Republican National Convention in Ohio, declaring, "Blue lives matter." Christie is also seen as a possible DHS secretary.
Environmental Protection Agency administrator
While Trump has called for eliminating the EPA, he has more recently modified that position, saying in September that he'll "refocus the EPA on its core mission of ensuring clean air, and clean, safe drinking water for all Americans."
Myron Ebell, a climate skeptic who is running the EPA working group on Trump's transition team, is seen as a top candidate to lead the agency. Ebell, an official at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, has come under fire from environmental groups for his stances on global warming. Venture capitalist Robert Grady is also a contender.
Other potential candidates: Joe Aiello, director of the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection's Division of Environmental Safety and Quality Assurance; Carol Comer, the commissioner of the Indiana Department of Environmental Management, who was appointed by Pence; and Leslie Rutledge, attorney general of Arkansas and a lead challenger of EPA regulations in the state.
So few if any, bankers, billionaires, neo-cons or career politicians. :cool:
Quote from: mongers on November 09, 2016, 08:03:22 PM
So few if any, bankers, billionaires, neo-cons or career politicians. :cool:
Sara Palin, Ben Carson and Sheriff David Clarke. You know, morons.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 08:05:57 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 09, 2016, 08:03:22 PM
So few if any, bankers, billionaires, neo-cons or career politicians. :cool:
Sara Palin, Ben Carson and Sheriff David Clarke. You know, morons.
But blue collar ones?
The State choices are really concerning. Gingrich is an awful, awful choice. Bolton even worse if that is possible. Corker is the least worst I guess, although given Trump's own lack of international standing, you'd really like to see something more robust in his background than former Mayor of Chattanooga.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 09, 2016, 08:10:45 PM
The State choices are really concerning. Gingrich is an awful, awful choice. Bolton even worse if that is possible. Corker is the least worst I guess, although given Trump's own lack of international standing, you'd really like to see something more robust in his background than former Mayor of Chattanooga.
Ann Coulter is well travelled.
On defense, Jim Talent lacks it. Either he or Sessions would be joke choices. Hadley would be OK but like others on the list, is deep, deep Establishment elite type.
Assuming he has to do something with Gingrich, I'd put him in NASA
I like John Bolton's mustache.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 09, 2016, 08:24:31 PM
I like John Bolton's mustache.
John Bolton looks just like my dad. It would be very confusing for me to watch TV with dad constantly showing up saying crazy stuff.
Quote from: Caliga on November 09, 2016, 08:57:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 09, 2016, 08:24:31 PM
I like John Bolton's mustache.
John Bolton looks just like my dad. It would be very confusing for me to watch TV with dad constantly showing up saying crazy stuff.
Doubly so for your Dad.
Corker and Sessions would be the best options out of those for some continuity in those positions, so I'm hoping they get them,
I like some of those choices. Bolton in particular.
I thought Trump was anti-neocon. Isn't Bolton the embodiment of that wing of the party? Isn't there some Buchananite paleoconservative that he can dredge up?
Perry for Commerce? LOLZ
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 08:05:57 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 09, 2016, 08:03:22 PM
So few if any, bankers, billionaires, neo-cons or career politicians. :cool:
Sara Palin, Ben Carson and Sheriff David Clarke. You know, morons.
Is it a bit radical to "promote" a sheriff to a cabinet position? That's like a little fast?
The rule book has already been shredded mono.
Quote from: Fate on November 09, 2016, 10:07:07 PM
I thought Trump was anti-neocon. Isn't Bolton the embodiment of that wing of the party? Isn't there some Buchananite paleoconservative that he can dredge up?
He is still alive, ya know. :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2016, 10:16:30 PM
The rule book has already been shredded mono.
Then re-write it. Change the title, the cover and the terms. Even the wording. But ensure that the core content is the same :contract:
Quote from: Fate on November 09, 2016, 10:07:07 PM
I thought Trump was anti-neocon. Isn't Bolton the embodiment of that wing of the party? Isn't there some Buchananite paleoconservative that he can dredge up?
Too funny. Still trying to define the undefinable. Trump is pro-Trump.
(https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14993501_1779364192323160_1068428276976939035_n.jpg?oh=7b16be0164e34b92b7d717ccd881d231&oe=58870098)
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I'm sure none of those are fake.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 09, 2016, 08:16:38 PM
Assuming he has to do something with Gingrich, I'd put him in NASA
That's not a bad idea, actually. I was thinking Transportation if Gingrich wants a Cabinet-level position.
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 09:52:05 PM
I like some of those choices. Bolton in particular.
You can't be serious...
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:53:35 PM
I'm sure none of those are fake.
I was waiting for that, could have set my watch to it. You have at least 3 police reports in there, so you can get updates on those cases if you're interested :)
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:53:35 PM
I'm sure none of those are fake.
yeah, hate-fueled mobs whipped into a frenzy from victory always behave after they win.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl7.alamy.com%2Fzooms%2F87af3ad48b7a478aab8cde68a8cb3dea%2Fnazi-sturmabteilung-sa-troops-in-anti-semite-street-brawl-in-1933-ee5333.jpg&hash=ec777373a0094a3a7d3f08ab5e1b6385c7a0558d)
Quote from: mongers on November 09, 2016, 08:10:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 08:05:57 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 09, 2016, 08:03:22 PM
So few if any, bankers, billionaires, neo-cons or career politicians. :cool:
Sara Palin, Ben Carson and Sheriff David Clarke. You know, morons.
But blue collar ones?
Is being a brain surgeon a blue collar job? Or is it because of the colour of his... scrubs?
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 10:09:01 PM
Perry for Commerce? LOLZ
That amused me as well. Just as Mike Huckabee. I guess the US could always become the primary exporter of snake oil. :P
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:53:35 PM
I'm sure none of those are fake.
If they are true, then I feel sorry for the victims whose testimonies have been trivialised and put into doubt by the slew of fake assault reports from mentally unstable progressives that happened in the last few years.
Yay 4 more years of alt right Marti. What a chicken shit, only retires the position when he thought his side would lose.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 09, 2016, 08:16:38 PM
Assuming he has to do something with Gingrich, I'd put him in NASA
I agree, in particular at the top of the next space-bound rocket.
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 04:03:12 AM
Yay 4 more years of alt right Marti. What a chicken shit, only retires the position when he thought his side would lose.
Does it always have to be that one has to be in some tribe to take some position? I am not alt right, but a lot of these reports (especially once with spray paint etc.) seem fake. The ones about kids at school bullying other kids are probably true, as kids are dumb.
Is there some sort of primer one has to follow based on a tribe one belongs to?
Say, unless I am alt-right I have to believe outlandish unbelievable reports?
Quote from: celedhring on November 10, 2016, 04:08:27 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 09, 2016, 08:16:38 PM
Assuming he has to do something with Gingrich, I'd put him in NASA
I agree, in particular at the top of the next space-bound rocket.
He wanted to build a Moon base.
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 04:37:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 04:03:12 AM
Yay 4 more years of alt right Marti. What a chicken shit, only retires the position when he thought his side would lose.
Does it always have to be that one has to be in some tribe to take some position? I am not alt right, but a lot of these reports (especially once with spray paint etc.) seem fake. The ones about kids at school bullying other kids are probably true, as kids are dumb.
Is there some sort of primer one has to follow based on a tribe one belongs to?
Say, unless I am alt-right I have to believe outlandish unbelievable reports?
I don't know why you have to - but you always do.
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:53:35 PM
I'm sure none of those are fake.
I'm sure people doubting those reports don't have racism or sexism affecting themselves personally in everyday life.
Heard an interview on the radio with old pal* James Woolsey, who is security advisor on Trump's transition team. Sounds like a return to the Bush II era in regards to the Middle East. ... Help!
(*he's well known in the biomass sector)
Quote from: saskganesh on November 10, 2016, 06:55:30 AM
Heard an interview on the radio with old pal* James Woolsey, who is security advisor on Trump's transition team. Sounds like a return to the Bush II era in regards to the Middle East. ... Help!
(*he's well known in the biomass sector)
Trump stated during the campaign he planned to send 30,000 troops to fight ISIS. Just gotta work out which Trump Resorts they're going to be booked.
Probably some great real estate opportunities in Mosul.
Heh.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw44QPUUQAACGUs.jpg:large)
See, for shit like this I love Trump. :lol:
The Princeling must be sad he wasted all this money on Clinton's campaign Foundation.
I hope Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III gets suitably lavish spoils for his staunch loyalty from the early hours of the Trump campaign.
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 07:16:00 AM
See, for shit like this I love Trump. :lol:
The Princeling must be sad he wasted all this money on Clinton's campaign Foundation.
Actually, it is likelier that he wasted all his money investing in another one of Trump's botched efforts to create a profitable business.
Trump did a much better job of controlling American politicians using his daddy's money than Talel ever could.
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 10, 2016, 07:24:59 AM
I hope Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III gets suitably lavish spoils for his staunch loyalty from the early hours of the Trump campaign.
^_^
Quote from: Legbiter on November 10, 2016, 07:35:18 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 10, 2016, 07:24:59 AM
I hope Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III gets suitably lavish spoils for his staunch loyalty from the early hours of the Trump campaign.
^_^
:D
"Jefferson, wow. Like Thomas Jefferson?"
"Yeah, something like that."
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:53:35 PM
I'm sure none of those are fake.
Sure. But hate crimes increased hugely in the UK after the Brexit vote. As there it's not that 50% of the country are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. It's that the people who are think 50% of people got their backs.
It needs to be shut down.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 10, 2016, 08:21:01 AM
It needs to be shut down.
Victory isn't about showing class to the loser, it's about rubbing your dick in the loser's face between classes!
Quote"Disruptive" Trump supporters removed from Wellesley campus (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/11/09/disruptive-trump-supporters-removed-from-wellesley-campus/nPKSh9mpedkNWjxjGCvdvN/story.html)
Two people who drove through Wellesley College on Wednesday waving a Donald Trump flag were removed by campus security for being "disruptive" to students at Hillary Clinton's alma mater.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theliberaloc.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2FHouse-falls-on-Wicked-Witch.jpg&hash=13073a1882aa2e341ebc415a821de0997c9f977d)
Fortunately the Wicked Witch of the West can avenge her!
:hmm:
Not really sure who that is in this scenario.
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 09:15:05 AM
Fortunately the Wicked Witch of the West can avenge her!
:hmm:
Not really sure who that is in this scenario.
Just let him be, he is still celebrating victory.
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 09:15:05 AM
Fortunately the Wicked Witch of the West can avenge her!
:hmm:
Not really sure who that is in this scenario.
Pocahontas, obviously.
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
Just let him be, he is still celebrating victory someone else's defeat.
FIXDED
Needless to say the Hungarian government and their supporters are very happy with the US election result. They were given all kinds of crap by the Democrats-led US and now certain that's over and they will get support from Trump, who is their kind.
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:19:09 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
Just let him be, he is still celebrating victory someone else's defeat.
FIXDED
That's the same. And stop pretending please, you have been trying to mask your giggling, like a little girl, for two days now. It's way too obvious.
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
Just let him be, he is still celebrating victory.
I can play along. I would rather Spicey did it than a bunch of foreigners.
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:19:19 AM
Needless to say the Hungarian government and their supporters are very happy with the US election result. They were given all kinds of crap by the Democrats-led US and now certain that's over and they will get support from Trump, who is their kind.
New Europe!
That terms seems so ominous now :ph34r:
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:18:12 AM
Pocahontas, obviously.
Massachusetts is not particularly westerly :P
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:19:55 AM
That's the same. And stop pretending please, you have been trying to mask your giggling, like a little girl, for two days now. It's way too obvious.
:hug:
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:19:19 AM
Needless to say the Hungarian government and their supporters are very happy with the US election result. They were given all kinds of crap by the Democrats-led US and now certain that's over and they will get support from Trump, who is their kind.
A German site joked that right-wing populaists throughout Europe suddenly and miraculously were cured of their Anti-Americanism.
Quote from: Syt on November 10, 2016, 09:43:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:19:19 AM
Needless to say the Hungarian government and their supporters are very happy with the US election result. They were given all kinds of crap by the Democrats-led US and now certain that's over and they will get support from Trump, who is their kind.
A German site joked that right-wing populaists throughout Europe suddenly and miraculously were cured of their Anti-Americanism.
well that is no joke. I mean, not universally, of course, but the amount of sudden syrupy love for America and the glee over the dawn a new, better, peaceful era (mostly by American stepping out of the way of Righteous Russia), is really nauseating.
Fuck these people.
The Le Pen girls turn me on.
Quote from: Syt on November 10, 2016, 09:43:11 AM
A German site joked that right-wing populaists throughout Europe suddenly and miraculously were cured of their Anti-Americanism.
How about the flip side of that-- will Euro leftists rediscover their anti-American roots?
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:51:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 10, 2016, 09:43:11 AM
A German site joked that right-wing populaists throughout Europe suddenly and miraculously were cured of their Anti-Americanism.
How about the flip side of that-- will Euro leftists rediscover their anti-American roots?
:huh: They have never forgotten them.
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:51:55 AM
:huh: They have never forgotten them.
Spicey was ok with it so long as it was anti-Obama so he didn't notice :P
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:24:51 AM
It is if you're looking from Europe.
I guess everywhere on the globe is westerly from someplace :hmm:
But that would confirm my worst fears.
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 10, 2016, 07:24:59 AM
I hope Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III gets suitably lavish spoils for his staunch loyalty from the early hours of the Trump campaign.
Watching Lettow extol the "southern" virtues of a loudmouth New York City Yankee capitalist is almost worth the price of a Trump presidency.
Donald J Trump - the Fernando Wood of the 21st century.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 10, 2016, 07:24:59 AM
I hope Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III gets suitably lavish spoils for his staunch loyalty from the early hours of the Trump campaign.
Watching Lettow extol the "southern" virtues of a loudmouth New York City Yankee capitalist is almost worth the price of a Trump presidency.
Donald J Trump - the Fernando Wood of the 21st century.
I know. One who Wisconsin and Michigan supported. This seems to point to just how little difference there is between yankees and southerners.
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 04:37:22 AM
Say, unless I am alt-right I have to believe outlandish unbelievable reports?
What was the outlandlish unbelievable report?
My first reaction on seeing that list was that its probably the kind of stuff that happens all the time, it's just attracting notice now because of the timing and the link to the election. Guess you see things differently from you clear perspective on American life.
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 10:30:59 AM
I know. One who Wisconsin and Michigan supported. This seems to point to just how little difference there is between yankees and southerners.
The great divide isn't between north and south. It's between rural areas and urban ones, with the suburbs/exurbs as the battleground areas.
Quote from: Caliga on November 10, 2016, 10:33:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 10:30:59 AM
I know. One who Wisconsin and Michigan supported. This seems to point to just how little difference there is between yankees and southerners.
The great divide isn't between north and south. It's between rural areas and urban ones, with the suburbs/exurbs as the battleground areas.
I know that and you know that. Lettow thinks it is sectional. Or, rather, really wants to think that.
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 10:34:25 AM
I know that and you know that. Lettow thinks it is sectional. Or, rather, really wants to think that.
I don't think he really does. Lettow is smarter than we give him credit for. He just has a role he is expected to play around here and is more than happy to oblige.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 10:29:07 AM
Watching Lettow extol the "southern" virtues of a loudmouth New York City Yankee capitalist is almost worth the price of a Trump presidency.
Donald J Trump - the Fernando Wood of the 21st century.
What? I've never done such a thing and will not. I had to look up what I said here-
QuoteDespite serious misgivings, after tonight I'll support Donald Trump's nomination and bid for the presidency. He carried North Carolina; today, that was for me the only state of any significance, deciding as it did whether I must support Trump or could remain neutral. But he has carried the solid South in its entirety, and is clearly the choice white Southerners have made. That he is the candidate who will make anime real is just the salving garnish that eases the pain of supporting such an unprincipled and unpleasant man.
I would prefer it could've been Carson, whose comfy combination of incompetence and benevolence might have gone some ways to healing the racial rift that plagues the South, but Carson has endorsed the arrogant yankee billionaire. It is enough.
Trump is a loud, vain and unpleasant yankee and I have no fondness for the man at all. I did recently say that the election was a victory for values the South has always stood for- and I stand by that statement.
I would have preferred that Trump's ascendency to the Republican party led to its disintegration and the emergence of a Southern regional party that campaigned for autonomy, racial healing, and preservation of Southern culture.
I merely said in this thread that I was looking forward to whatever spoils renowned patriot Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III could gain from his involvement in the Trump campaign.
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:24:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:19:55 AM
That's the same. And stop pretending please, you have been trying to mask your giggling, like a little girl, for two days now. It's way too obvious.
:hug:
Your nipples have been so hard, they've delayed the offensive in Aachen for weeks.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 11:31:40 AM
Your nipples have been so hard, they've delayed the offensive in Aachen for weeks.
:lol:
Not at all. This is a critical time for all Americans to come together and work for a better future-- whether that means working with or against President-Elect Trump (for whom my household did not vote, I'll remind you). For way too long we've been divided by what are really petty differences. I've been sick of this stupid culture war for a few years now, and that hasn't ended with my side scoring something of a victory.
That said...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tptxW_ilRWc
I think that it will be interesting to see which, if any, women President-elect Drumpf can get to serve in his cabinet. He will want only the young and cute ones, and the young and cute ones won't want to put up with the sexist bullshit.
Drumpf likes his women pretty and stupid. But if one of them, like Sarah Palin, is stupid enough, she doesn't have to be all that pretty.
Which acronym is worse?
FLOTUS
or
PEOTUS
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:51:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:51:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 10, 2016, 09:43:11 AM
A German site joked that right-wing populaists throughout Europe suddenly and miraculously were cured of their Anti-Americanism.
How about the flip side of that-- will Euro leftists rediscover their anti-American roots?
:huh: They have never forgotten them.
this.
just like the people Tamas refers to those leftists would rather shack up with Russia than defend civilization.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw7DXKbVQAACzHq.jpg)
Look at them sitting and stuff!
He's torquing the orange back up now that he has won. :ph34r:
I know! The wallpaper is quite classy.
Wow, he looks tired. 70 years old should not hold offices.
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2016, 02:15:09 PM
Wow, he looks tired. 70 years old should not hold offices.
17 months of being high energy will do that to anybody.
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2016, 02:15:09 PM
Wow, he looks tired. 70 years old should not hold offices.
He looks like it's just hitting him this isn't another episode of the Apprentice and involves actual work.
G.
Quote from: Grallon on November 10, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2016, 02:15:09 PM
Wow, he looks tired. 70 years old should not hold offices.
He looks like it's just hitting him this isn't another episode of the Apprentice and involves actual work.
G.
:huh: :Eisenhower:
Quote from: Grallon on November 10, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2016, 02:15:09 PM
Wow, he looks tired. 70 years old should not hold offices.
He looks like it's just hitting him this isn't another episode of the Apprentice and involves actual work.
G.
That was pretty much my first thought on seeing that pic as well.
Anyway, yeah, he looks tired, but OTOH, President Obama doesn't look 15 years younger than President-Elect Trump, either.
He has been grabbing a shitload of celebratory pussy last couple days. That can wear a guy out.
I'm surprised though. After two terms he's aged, but I had expected him to look like Morgan Freeman by now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/09/trumps-conflicts-of-interest-are-without-precedent-in-american-presidential-history/?hpid=hp_hp-bignews6_conflict-3pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
QuoteTrump's conflicts of interest are without precedent in American presidential history
Donald Trump's stunning victory will force the United States to confront a series of never-before-seen entanglements over the president's private business, debts and rocky financial history.
No laws prohibit Trump from involving himself in his private company, the Trump Organization, while serving in the highest public office.
And Trump has so far resisted the long-standing presidential tradition of giving his holdings to an independent manager, stoking worries of conflicts of interests over his businesses' many financial and foreign ties.
Trump's business empire of hotels, golf courses and licensing deals in the U.S. and abroad, some of which have benefited from tax breaks or government subsidies, represents an ethical minefield for a commander in chief who would oversee the U.S. budget and foreign relations, some analysts say.
President-elect Trump will likely take the witness stand in a federal civil trial starting later this month, a first for an incoming president, over claims of fraud at his Trump University real-estate seminar series.
Other Trump companies are partially indebted to banks in Germany and China. On financial disclosure filings, Trump listed involvements in more than 500 companies, some in countries where the U.S. has sensitive diplomatic or financial relationships, such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and China.
Those entanglements are unprecedented, unavoidable and "troubling," Ken Gross, a former elections enforcement official and lawyer who has advised presidential candidates from both parties, said after the election. "He has investments in businesses in unfriendly countries and the businesses are often tied to those unfriendly governments."
"The obvious solution is to sell those interests," Gross said, but many holdings may not be easily sold, or are still tied to debts personally guaranteed by Trump. "Removing himself or his family from the perception of self or family interest may prove difficult," he added.
Ethics officials urged Trump during his campaign to pledge he would sell his businesses or cede them to an independent authority. Many modern presidents — including Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and both Bushes — went beyond what was required and placed their assets in "blind trusts," run by third-party managers who keep complete control.
But Trump has refused to make such a pledge, saying only that he would give companies to his children and executives to run. Attorneys said that would put little distance between a President Trump and the businesses he spent a lifetime grooming and profiting from.
"Now we are faced with the possibility that a son or daughter of the president will turn up in Moscow or Uzbekistan or somewhere else negotiating a deal on a new property that will bear the name of the president, and the full knowledge that the president really is an owner of the company," Trevor Potter, a former Federal Election Commission chairman and general counsel for George H.W. Bush and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), said in September. "That presents problems of a dimension we have never seen before. "
Trump's presidential campaign funneled vast sums of money to private Trump companies, and he has celebrated that his companies could reap the benefits of his rise to public power. In June, he tweeted about Trump University, "After the litigation is disposed of and the case won, I have instructed my execs to open Trump U(?), so much interest in it! I will be pres."
Those business conflicts will bind the president-elect even before his inauguration. Trump could be called to testify in the Trump University trial, part of a class-action lawsuit brought by former students who said they were misled about the seminars' offerings. That case is scheduled for the San Diego courtroom of U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who Trump accused of bias and falsely claimed was Mexican.
The government investigators scrutinizing Trump's businesses and allies, analysts said, could be influenced by the fact that their target could be their boss. Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was named in a corruption investigation by a Ukrainian agency working with the FBI. New York state has also ordered Trump's charitable foundation to stop fundraising because it lacked the proper authorization.
Members of Congress must recuse themselves from government dealings touching on their own financial interests, according to strict regulations in the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, enacted after Watergate. Presidents, however, were made exempt from those rules on the belief they could further complicate the wide-ranging job.
In the run-up to the election, Trump said he would take little interest in his businesses if he won the Oval Office. "If I become president, I couldn't care less about my company. It's peanuts," he said during a January debate. "Run the company, kids. Have a good time."
The Trump Organization's executive vice president, Alan Garten, echoed that sentiment to The Post in September. "His focus is going to be solely on improving the country," Garten said. "The business is not going to be a factor or an interest at that point."
Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. has insisted that Trump's holdings would go into a blind trust managed by him and his siblings Eric and Ivanka Trump.
"We're not going to be involved in government," Trump Jr. said in September on "Good Morning America." "He wants nothing to do with [the company]. He wants to fix this country."
When pressed over the potential of Trump and his family still discussing the business while Trump is in office, Trump Jr. said, "We're not going to discuss those things. ... Trust me. As you know, it's a very full-time job. He doesn't need to worry about the business. The business is in good hands. He trusts us with that, 100 percent."
Jan Witold Baran, a partner at Washington law firm Wiley Rein, said Trump will have to address concerns over government decisions that would affect his businesses, no matter who's running them.
Giving his companies to his children "doesn't necessarily remove him from those issues for political purposes," Baran said. "His name is on the business, for Pete's sake."
During his victory speech early Wednesday, Trump took pride in his business record and connected it to his ability to lead the country, saying, "I've spent my entire life in business, looking at the untapped potential in projects and in people all over the world."
Trump business and campaign officials did not respond to requests for comment on any timeline or details for the next steps Trump would take with his business empire.
Trump's company oversees eight U.S. hotels in Chicago, Honolulu, New York City, Las Vegas, and its newest, in Washington, opened a few blocks from the White House on the likely route of Trump's inauguration parade.
At the new Trump International Hotel in Washington's Old Post Office Pavilion, which his company leases from the federal government, Trump now effectively serves as both the landlord and the tenant. It's unclear how talks over lease payments or building maintenance would be conducted.
The Trump Organization is also set to receive federal tax credits to preserve the project's historic nature, a program his administration will now oversee. Trump has invested an estimated $42 million of his own company's money in the project.
Similar situations could emerge as federal housing officials — future employees of President Trump — will now be charged with enforcing housing rules, including at Trump properties in New York, Chicago and elsewhere.
Free-speech advocates have decried deals that federal officials made in providing the Trump Organization control over parts of Pennsylvania Avenue around the hotel. President Trump is poised to oversee those agreements with his company as well.
Trump real-estate holdings and other companies owe hundreds of millions of dollars to domestic and foreign banks, which ethics advisers say marks a wide vulnerability for Trump that could tilt his judgment or independence. At one Manhattan office tower co-owned by Trump, the lenders include the Bank of China, a massive financial institution in the Asian superpower Trump has repeatedly attacked.
The full extent of Trump's business relationships around the world remains unknown. He has refused to release his tax returns, which would outline key information about his financial holdings and foreign accounts.
The biggest lender to Trump's business empire is Deutsche Bank, the German financial giant now negotiating a settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice to settle claims related to disastrous "toxic" mortgages the bank issued amid the housing crisis.
Justice officials said in September they would seek a $14 billion fine from the bank, a vast sum that sparked worries over the bank's financial survival. But the final fine has not been publicly made official, and government-ethics experts have voiced concern that a President Trump could potentially influence the negotiations.
Garten, the Trump company executive, told The Post in September that he did "not see the conflict" in Trump taking control of a government pushing to penalize one of Trump's most important financial allies.
The bank has undergone criminal investigations by government authorities in the U.S. and other countries. After one probe last year, the bank agreed to pay $2.5 billion in fines to resolve a scandal over its alleged rigging of influential loan interest rates. In June, the International Monetary Fund said the bank was one of the biggest "contributors to systemic risks in the global banking system."
Trump's companies signed for roughly $360 million in Deutsche loans tied to the Trump National Doral golf club in south Florida, the Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago, and the new Trump International Hotel in Washington. Those loans are set to come due by 2024, which could parallel the end of a possible Trump presidency's second term.
Trump's election will again spotlight the many connections between his businesses and Russia, a long-standing antagonist of the United States. Trump has praised Russian President Vladimir Putin and voiced hopes he could develop new real-estate businesses there.
Strong evidence suggests Trump's businesses have received significant funding from Russian investors. Donald Trump Jr. said at a New York real estate conference in 2008 that "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets," and that "we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."
The election of Trump, who campaigned against trade and immigration, sent shock waves through financial markets across the world early Wednesday. Global stocks and the dollar plunged and, though some markets have recovered early losses, analysts have pointed to growing uncertainty among companies with foreign dealings.
"The U.S. economy and financial markets suddenly find themselves in no man's land," said Mark Hamrick, Bankrate.com's senior economic analyst. "The way forward for large companies, for example, doing business across borders, as well as any size firm reliant upon an immigrant workforce, is difficult to chart from here."
How Trump's company could evolve remains a mystery. The election has transformed Trump from a noted real-estate developer and reality-show host into one of the world's most famous men, with a fanbase energized by his rhetoric and showmanship and, perhaps, willing to follow him beyond the vote.
But his most energized audience — of, largely, middle-American and blue-collar voters — is also a class his businesses have long ignored, through high-class offerings such as $800 hotel rooms and $30,000 golf-club memberships.
"He's built this enormously resonant brand with what I'll affectionately call angry white males. It's not only a big market, but it appears to be growing," said Scott Galloway, a professor of marketing who teaches brand strategy at New York University, on Tuesday. "But his current product offering caters to affluent, fortunate and relatively happy people. And as a general rule, the affluent are mildly horrified by the current trajectory of the Trump brand."
Trump's brand may remain anathema to some potential customers who were turned off by his campaign despite his victory.
Trump International Hotel and Tower, a 57-story tower that opened in Toronto four years ago, was placed into receivership recently when it failed to hit financial projections, according to court filings. Trump operates that property but does not own it. However, Symon Zucker, an attorney for the project's owner, said Tuesday that a Trump victory wasn't "going to affect it positively."
"All the same people who weren't going to come to it before aren't going to come to it now," he said.
So will he look into Putin's soul or use the reset button? I'd hate for US handling of Russia to suddenly become inept.
Nobody cares, man.
Maybe he'll rent out an arena and shave Putin's head.
Here's the nightmare. :secret:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YNvR5HwsBEc/hqdefault.jpg)
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 04:42:27 PM
Maybe he'll rent out an arena and shave Putin's head.
Like I posted on FB earlier, maybe a latter-day Commodus is what this nation needs right now.
MAKEAMERICAROMANAGAIN
Maybe a Cops spinoff focusing on the Deportation Police. :)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 05:26:53 PM
Maybe a Cops spinoff focusing on the Deportation Police. :)
LOL Otto's getting mobilized. Operation Enduring Queso Dip
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 05:44:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 05:26:53 PM
Maybe a Cops spinoff focusing on the Deportation Police. :)
LOL Otto's getting mobilized. Operation Enduring Queso Dip
They should have celebrity guests along. Get Martin Shkreli to talk to Otto about his Wu Tang collection.
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:53:35 PM
I'm sure none of those are fake.
QuoteBATON ROUGE, La. — A Louisiana college student has acknowledged she fabricated a report that she was assaulted and robbed of her wallet and Muslim headscarf by two men, one of whom she described as wearing a white "Trump" hat, police said Thursday.
The Lafayette Police Department said in a statement that it is no longer investigating the 18-year-old woman's claims, which were made within hours of Donald Trump's presidential victory.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/10/us/ap-us-student-assaulted-headscarf.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/10/us/ap-us-student-assaulted-headscarf.html?_r=0)
Quote from: Legbiter on November 10, 2016, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:53:35 PM
I'm sure none of those are fake.
QuoteBATON ROUGE, La. — A Louisiana college student has acknowledged she fabricated a report that she was assaulted and robbed of her wallet and Muslim headscarf by two men, one of whom she described as wearing a white "Trump" hat, police said Thursday.
The Lafayette Police Department said in a statement that it is no longer investigating the 18-year-old woman's claims, which were made within hours of Donald Trump's presidential victory.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/10/us/ap-us-student-assaulted-headscarf.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/10/us/ap-us-student-assaulted-headscarf.html?_r=0)
Well there we go, nothing to worry about then.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 04:08:38 PM
He has been grabbing a shitload of celebratory pussy last couple days. That can wear a guy out.
I'm not sure. I think that from about March this has been a publicity stint that's got wildly out of hand. I genuinely think this is the example of what everyone has wanted in the past: a candidate who actually didn't want to be President.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 10, 2016, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 04:08:38 PM
He has been grabbing a shitload of celebratory pussy last couple days. That can wear a guy out.
I'm not sure. I think that from about March this has been a publicity stint that's got wildly out of hand. I genuinely think this is the example of what everyone has wanted in the past: a candidate who actually didn't want to be President.
Haha funnily enough, you may be right.
Shelf: I wasn't entirely serious. Besides, grabbing pussy is not that tiring.
Quote from: Fate on November 09, 2016, 10:07:07 PM
I thought Trump was anti-neocon. Isn't Bolton the embodiment of that wing of the party? Isn't there some Buchananite paleoconservative that he can dredge up?
Is he? Was Bolton a socialist earlier in life? I'd never heard that.
When I think of neo-cons it's usually dudes like David Brooks that come to mind.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 10, 2016, 07:36:36 PM
Is he? Was Bolton a socialist earlier in life? I'd never heard that.
When I think of neo-cons it's usually dudes like David Brooks that come to mind.
Neo-con in its modern usage is someone who likes to blow up bad Ay-Rabs.
It's really meant the whole regime change idea since 9/11.
I think you're all being a little optimistic about the economic damage government can cause given that you've elected a guy whose one consistently held view is hostility to trade.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 10, 2016, 07:51:27 PM
I think you're all being a little optimistic about the economic damage government can cause given that you've elected a guy whose one consistently held view is hostility to trade.
Well, when I said the election was a national disaster and that I expected the country to pitch into recession the day after the election, that was really a best case scenario. :sleep:
This is pretty funny. I mean, when it's not horrible, it's funny.
It's pretty obvious what you do if you are a democrat, you know you get organized, try to hold the DNC accountable for Clinton and so on and so forth, but the bit that fascinates me, is what you do if you are a Republican.
Is it, oh that's awesome my party has the presidency (and everything else) I'm going to get a lot of legislation I like, and all that stuff I dont like is going to get repealed, Supreme court, judiciary etc etc, sorry the actual President is kinda weird, but hey nbd
Or is it sort of holy shit what the hell is happening I have actually deeply held personal convictions about economics, incentive, faith, church, family and the role of government and this monstrous charlatan has run off with my political party. I think I need to do something, anything...
This is sort of a serious question, because obviously most of the Americans on here are Republicans, if I recall, and very smart and well educated ones. (this isnt directed at the Breitbart crowd, close your mouths when you chew chaps).
whatever happens its going to be fascinating.
Quote from: fromtia on November 10, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
This is pretty funny. I mean, when it's not horrible, it's funny.
It's pretty obvious what you do if you are a democrat, you know you get organized, try to hold the DNC accountable for Clinton and so on and so forth, but the bit that fascinates me, is what you do if you are a Republican.
Is it, oh that's awesome my party has the presidency (and everything else) I'm going to get a lot of legislation I like, and all that stuff I dont like is going to get repealed, Supreme court, judiciary etc etc, sorry the actual President is kinda weird, but hey nbd
Or is it sort of holy shit what the hell is happening I have actually deeply held personal convictions about economics, incentive, faith, church, family and the role of government and this monstrous charlatan has run off with my political party. I think I need to do something, anything...
This is sort of a serious question, because obviously most of the Americans on here are Republicans, if I recall, and very smart and well educated ones. (this isnt directed at the Breitbart crowd, close your mouths when you chew chaps).
whatever happens its going to be fascinating.
Yeah car accidents were your life flashes infront of your eyes are similarly fascinating.
Oh, and rather nice to hear from you Formtia. :cheers:
Quote from: fromtia on November 10, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
This is sort of a serious question, because obviously most of the Americans on here are Republicans, if I recall, and very smart and well educated ones. (this isnt directed at the Breitbart crowd, close your mouths when you chew chaps).
I don't think the bolded part is true. At least not any more.
I identify as a snowblower. My preferred pronoun is WHURRRRRR
Quote from: fromtia on November 10, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
Is it, oh that's awesome my party has the presidency (and everything else) I'm going to get a lot of legislation I like, and all that stuff I dont like is going to get repealed, Supreme court, judiciary etc etc, sorry the actual President is kinda weird, but hey nbd
Or is it sort of holy shit what the hell is happening I have actually deeply held personal convictions about economics, incentive, faith, church, family and the role of government and this monstrous charlatan has run off with my political party. I think I need to do something, anything...
Somewhere in between. I have no idea what's in store, honestly.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2016, 08:31:16 PM
I identify as a snowblower. My preferred pronoun is WHURRRRRR
You honestly think you're that mobile, Mr. Plow? lulz,
Please respect my choices. :(
Should have been a John Deere tractor/mower.
Quote from: Monoriu on November 10, 2016, 08:30:14 PM
I don't think the bolded part is true. At least not any more.
I have noticed that quite a few people have either moved to the center or become less enthusiastic of the party line than I remember from 10 years ago. Could be the Bush presidency and Iraq, or it could be an illusion caused by the determined dash toward the outer limits of rationality by a swathe of the US right is making them
look moderate now.
Quote from: fromtia on November 10, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
This is pretty funny. I mean, when it's not horrible, it's funny.
It's pretty obvious what you do if you are a democrat, you know you get organized, try to hold the DNC accountable for Clinton and so on and so forth, but the bit that fascinates me, is what you do if you are a Republican.
Is it, oh that's awesome my party has the presidency (and everything else) I'm going to get a lot of legislation I like, and all that stuff I dont like is going to get repealed, Supreme court, judiciary etc etc, sorry the actual President is kinda weird, but hey nbd
Or is it sort of holy shit what the hell is happening I have actually deeply held personal convictions about economics, incentive, faith, church, family and the role of government and this monstrous charlatan has run off with my political party. I think I need to do something, anything...
My parents are... :unsure:... Gerald Ford Republicans; as far as such a thing can exist anymore. Anyhow they are clearly appalled by Donald Trump; and while they were not at all happy to vote for Hil, they did it. (Not that she won Michigan despite that.)
Quote from: Savonarola on November 10, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
My parents are... :unsure:... Gerald Ford Republicans; as far as such a thing can exist anymore. Anyhow they are clearly appalled by Donald Trump; and while they were not at all happy to vote for Hil, they did it. (Not that she won Michigan despite that.)
Had a case in Grand Rapids - been in and out of the airport a bunch of times. Strong Cruz/Trump country there I understand, or at least that's what my local consultant was telling me during primary season. Wonder what Ford would have made of it.
I think of W who must look at this and feel a bit like Blair does looking at the Labour Party in Brexit Britain.
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2016, 12:56:02 PM
I think that it will be interesting to see which, if any, women President-elect Drumpf can get to serve in his cabinet. He will want only the young and cute ones, and the young and cute ones won't want to put up with the sexist bullshit.
Drumpf likes his women pretty and stupid. But if one of them, like Sarah Palin, is stupid enough, she doesn't have to be all that pretty.
Eh, the president doesn't work all that closely with the cabinet. His staff will be full of young and cute ones perfectly happy to put up with sexist bullshit though.
Quote from: Savonarola on November 10, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
My parents are... :unsure:... Gerald Ford Republicans; as far as such a thing can exist anymore. Anyhow they are clearly appalled by Donald Trump; and while they were not at all happy to vote for Hil, they did it. (Not that she won Michigan despite that.)
My parents are Eisenhower Republicans (were not early enough to vote for him but really liked Ike) and have been loyal to the GOP since. Trump tested them, but they reluctantly voted for him. I'm the black sheep in the family-- probably the first person in my immediate family not to vote for the GOP guy in a general election. My sister in law was headed in the Hillary direction but we think at the last minute she shifted and voted Trump.
Quote from: Savonarola on November 10, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
My parents are... :unsure:... Gerald Ford Republicans; as far as such a thing can exist anymore. Anyhow they are clearly appalled by Donald Trump; and while they were not at all happy to vote for Hil, they did it. (Not that she won Michigan despite that.)
Dad is a Nixon Republican; liked Reagan and Poppy Bush, but went with Clinton in '92; was behind McCain right up until he picked his running mate, but has really been turned off by the GOP's marriage to Big Religion. Singularly disgusted by Trump.
Mom used to be a Goldwater Girl, but has been a single-issue voter since
Roe v Wade, left the party and the Catholic Church, and is probably whipping up mazel tov cocktails with AVENGE HILLARY written on them as we speak.
Last I heard, Dad said the TV hasn't been on since Tuesday night.
Ben Carson in charge of education? Lol wut?
Nothing so important, just Health and Human services. :lol:
Quote from: Solmyr on November 11, 2016, 05:38:28 AM
Ben Carson in charge of education? Lol wut?
Ok, now I think the Chinese sponsored Trump. :lol:
Quote from: katmai on November 11, 2016, 05:48:35 AM
Nothing so important, just Health and Human services. :lol:
At least we won't have to worry about vaccines and stuff.
Quote from: dps on November 10, 2016, 04:07:27 PM
Anyway, yeah, he looks tired, but OTOH, President Obama doesn't look 15 years younger than President-Elect Trump, either.
That's what seeing 8 years of hard work being shit on and flushed away does to you.
Quote from: Maladict on November 11, 2016, 08:10:00 AM
Quote from: dps on November 10, 2016, 04:07:27 PM
Anyway, yeah, he looks tired, but OTOH, President Obama doesn't look 15 years younger than President-Elect Trump, either.
That's what seeing 8 years of hard work being shit on and flushed away does to you.
Hell 70 years of hard work.
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:36:46 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 10, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
My parents are... :unsure:... Gerald Ford Republicans; as far as such a thing can exist anymore. Anyhow they are clearly appalled by Donald Trump; and while they were not at all happy to vote for Hil, they did it. (Not that she won Michigan despite that.)
My parents are Eisenhower Republicans (were not early enough to vote for him but really liked Ike) and have been loyal to the GOP since. Trump tested them, but they reluctantly voted for him. I'm the black sheep in the family-- probably the first person in my immediate family not to vote for the GOP guy in a general election. My sister in law was headed in the Hillary direction but we think at the last minute she shifted and voted Trump.
I never understood these political families, from generation to generation, always voting the same, no questions asked.
My own family was pretty divided between Liberal Party supporters and Parti Québécois supporters; prior to that, Liberal and Union Nationale (Conservative at the Federal level) (an actually, they simply said "Red" and "Blue" in the times of my grandfather, no matter the name of the party). My Grandfather was a pure Liberal, he only hesitated once, when the Liberal Party had a female candidate for our riding. His own family was pretty divided between Liberals and Union Nationale. I remember my dad often telling me he went to parade at his uncle place with his dad, after he lost the elections. They were almost thrown out at gunpoint. And that uncle's sons, one of them is Liberal, the other is Parti Québécois.
Thing is, my family, despite the uniformity (which extends to both sides of my family and includes all my aunts, uncles, & cousins*), is not really *that* political. We rarely discuss politics, even during election campaigns. I doubt it would be a big deal if there if there were some difference in opinion.
*I have one cousin who became a bleeding heart liberal, but we still get along great.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 09:52:41 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 10, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
My parents are... :unsure:... Gerald Ford Republicans; as far as such a thing can exist anymore. Anyhow they are clearly appalled by Donald Trump; and while they were not at all happy to vote for Hil, they did it. (Not that she won Michigan despite that.)
Dad is a Nixon Republican; liked Reagan and Poppy Bush, but went with Clinton in '92; was behind McCain right up until he picked his running mate, but has really been turned off by the GOP's marriage to Big Religion. Singularly disgusted by Trump.
Son?
Quote from: Berkut on November 11, 2016, 11:06:23 AM
Son?
People find it difficult to believe I was once a College Republican and worked the Chavez senate campaign. But to paraphrase the Gipper I didn't leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me.
Edit: wrong year, that was '86. I'm so old.
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:42:47 AM
Thing is, my family, despite the uniformity (which extends to both sides of my family and includes all my aunts, uncles, & cousins*), is not really *that* political. We rarely discuss politics, even during election campaigns. I doubt it would be a big deal if there if there were some difference in opinion.
Not much to talk if you all more or less agree on. My family is extremely diverse (from my commie half-cousin to my - literally - fascist grandpa, going through leftists and conservatives from all shapes and colors), and we talk incessantly about politics during family meetings.
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:42:47 AM
Thing is, my family, despite the uniformity (which extends to both sides of my family and includes all my aunts, uncles, & cousins*), is not really *that* political. We rarely discuss politics, even during election campaigns. I doubt it would be a big deal if there if there were some difference in opinion.
When everyone agrees, it's hard to discuss. ;)
Quote from: celedhring on November 11, 2016, 11:35:25 AM
Not much to talk if you all more or less agree on. My family is extremely diverse (from my commie half-cousin to my - literally - fascist grandpa, going through leftists and conservatives from all shapes and colors), and we talk incessantly about politics during family meetings.
What I'm saying is that at least in my immediate family, knowing us it would not be a big deal if someone disagreed. We'd still talk about other stuff.
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 08:50:48 PM
Quote from: fromtia on November 10, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
Is it, oh that's awesome my party has the presidency (and everything else) I'm going to get a lot of legislation I like, and all that stuff I dont like is going to get repealed, Supreme court, judiciary etc etc, sorry the actual President is kinda weird, but hey nbd
Or is it sort of holy shit what the hell is happening I have actually deeply held personal convictions about economics, incentive, faith, church, family and the role of government and this monstrous charlatan has run off with my political party. I think I need to do something, anything...
Somewhere in between. I have no idea what's in store, honestly.
Same here. I don't see a place for me or people like me in any US political party right now. Both major parties are apparently protectionist now, and the Libertarians have too many anarchist nutjobs, plus in a year when a heavy majority of voters were repelled by the Presidential candidates of both major parties, the Libertarians made absolutely no inroads. If they couldn't even get to 5% of the popular vote this year, they never will. And the other third parties are even nuttier, and even less relevant.
I generally don't know what family members vote for.
Quote from: Savonarola on November 10, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
My parents are... :unsure:... Gerald Ford Republicans; as far as such a thing can exist anymore. Anyhow they are clearly appalled by Donald Trump; and while they were not at all happy to vote for Hil, they did it. (Not that she won Michigan despite that.)
I spoke with my parents tonight. Mom said that she told my Dad on election night, "Remember how much you hated Jimmy Carter? Well he looks positively brilliant now."
(Still history's greatest monster, though.)
Quote from: The Brain on November 11, 2016, 05:56:29 PM
I generally don't know what family members vote for.
They are ardent socialists.
Are we sure yet that Trump hasn't been possessed by Chalres Manson?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgiant.gfycat.com%2FAdolescentEvergreenElephantbeetle.gif&hash=e6e0689041a64ce0aab7e8e7ec1639e8dd7e884f)
Quote from: Syt on November 14, 2016, 05:45:22 AM
Are we sure yet that Trump hasn't been possessed by Chalres Manson?
Well since Manson is still alive...
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 05:38:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 14, 2016, 05:45:22 AM
Are we sure yet that Trump hasn't been possessed by Chalres Manson?
Well since Manson is still alive...
You've clearly never seen 'Fallen'. :P
Quote from: dps on November 11, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
I don't see a place for me or people like me in any US political party right now.
I feel the same about Quebec politics :(
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 08:17:09 PM
Quote from: dps on November 11, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
I don't see a place for me or people like me in any US political party right now.
I feel the same about Quebec politics :(
We all feel this way.
The man has no idea what he is doing. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/leading-contender-for-donald-trump-s-chief-of-staff-is-rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-1479069597)
QuoteStill, Mr. Trump's transition is slightly behind the pace set by previous incoming presidents and the timetable established by his own team.
President Barack Obama, for example, named his chief of staff two days after winning the 2008 campaign. Inside the Trump transition team, a broader group of officials known as the "landing team" was supposed to have been announced on Friday and start inspecting agencies for potential changes this coming week. That was delayed after Mr. Trump shuffled the transition team's leadership.
Another contributing factor: Mr. Trump's victory surprised even his own top advisers, who, before Tuesday, were unable to focus the New York businessman on the 73 days between the election and inauguration, a senior aide said. They said Mr. Trump didn't want to jinx himself by planning the transition before he had actually won.
During their private White House meeting on Thursday, Mr. Obama walked his successor through the duties of running the country, and Mr. Trump seemed surprised by the scope, said people familiar with the meeting. Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama's term.
After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.
You know what would be real laugh out loud funny, if Obama turns out to be Trump's most trusted and useful advisor during the next two months. :cool:
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2016, 09:45:03 PM
You know what would be real laugh out loud funny, if Obama turns out to be Trump's most trusted and useful advisor during the next two months. :cool:
(https://mrmilitantnegro.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/tumblr_n1njebpbow1qcw9y0o1_400.jpg)
Yes boss.
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 11:40:03 AM
What I'm saying is that at least in my immediate family, knowing us it would not be a big deal if someone disagreed. We'd still talk about other stuff.
Not me. I haven't logged in to FB since the election, and I'm pretty sure there are a number of relationships that won't survive this. Most of my family are GOP, but the ones who aren't are like the definition of beltway insider, ivy league, Wellesley and Smith and making a crapload of money off of those connections types. I'm like the guy both sides trust, but I know if I engage I'll only sink into the mud. I might stay off the internet for four years.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 14, 2016, 10:13:35 PM
I might stay off the internet for four years.
I'm wondering if this election isn't the very catalyst we need to begin unplugging.
Well, the good news is that Elizabeth Warren got her wish. No more Mary Jo White at the head of the SEC:
QuoteMary Jo White leaving SEC before Trump takes office
Mary Jo White announced plans on Monday to step down as chair of the powerful Securities and Exchange Commission before President-elect Donald Trump takes office.
White's term at the helm of the SEC hadn't been scheduled to expire until June 2019.
Trump has promised to roll back the sweeping regulation of Wall Street that White has spent nearly four years trying to install. In fact, implementing Dodd-Frank rules and other financial reforms had been one of the biggest challenges during White's tenure at the SEC.
White, 68, did not state a reason for her resignation, but said it was a "tremendous honor" to lead the SEC and she is "very proud" of the agency's rule making as well as its enforcement actions.
In her statement, White said it's "critical" that the SEC remain "truly independent," allowing the agency to carry out its duty to safeguard markets and protect investors.
White praised her agency's efforts to reform money market funds and make companies become more transparent. She also noted that the SEC has notched three straight years of record enforcement actions, including insider trading and corruption violations.
But the SEC chair has also drawn criticism from the likes of Senator Elizabeth Warren. Just last month Warren, a Democrat, called for President Obama to remove White from her job because she wasn't doing enough to prevent businesses from pouring cash into politics.
It's not clear who Trump would nominate to replace White, but her departure could allow the president-elect to tap someone more in line with his deregulatory tilt.
White's exit would also mean that Wall Street's top cop will become even more shorthanded, with just two of the SEC's five commissioner seats filled. Gridlock in Washington has prevented the Senate from confirming Obama's two nominees.
White arrived at the SEC in April 2013 after being nominated by Obama, and despite leaving before her term is up she will be one of the SEC's longest serving chairs.
White served as U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York for nearly a decade until 2002. Her office successfully prosecuted the terrorists behind the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.
She has also worked as a high-powered lawyer at the New York law firm Debevoise & Plimpton.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 10:14:49 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 14, 2016, 10:13:35 PM
I might stay off the internet for four years.
I'm wondering if this election isn't the very catalyst we need to begin unplugging.
Now what fun would that be.
Quote from: Savonarola on November 14, 2016, 10:17:35 PM
Well, the good news is that Elizabeth Warren got her wish. No more Mary Jo White at the head of the SEC:
Quote
It's not clear who Trump would nominate to replace White, but her departure could allow the president-elect to tap someone more in line with his deregulatory tilt.
White's exit would also mean that Wall Street's top cop will become even more shorthanded, with just two of the SEC's five commissioner seats filled. Gridlock in Washington has prevented the Senate from confirming Obama's two nominees.
So, how about that federal hiring freeze? Wacky, huh?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 09:38:24 PM
The man has no idea what he is doing. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/leading-contender-for-donald-trump-s-chief-of-staff-is-rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-1479069597)
QuoteStill, Mr. Trump's transition is slightly behind the pace set by previous incoming presidents and the timetable established by his own team.
President Barack Obama, for example, named his chief of staff two days after winning the 2008 campaign. Inside the Trump transition team, a broader group of officials known as the "landing team" was supposed to have been announced on Friday and start inspecting agencies for potential changes this coming week. That was delayed after Mr. Trump shuffled the transition team's leadership.
Another contributing factor: Mr. Trump's victory surprised even his own top advisers, who, before Tuesday, were unable to focus the New York businessman on the 73 days between the election and inauguration, a senior aide said. They said Mr. Trump didn't want to jinx himself by planning the transition before he had actually won.
During their private White House meeting on Thursday, Mr. Obama walked his successor through the duties of running the country, and Mr. Trump seemed surprised by the scope, said people familiar with the meeting. Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama's term.
After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.
Quote
'Knife fight' as Trump builds an unconventional national security cabinet
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/trump-shortlist-national-security-worldview/index.html
Quote from: 11B4V on November 14, 2016, 10:28:29 PM
'Knife fight' as Trump builds an unconventional national security cabinet
Said it before, I'll say it again: everything you need to know about The Donald's decision-making process you can find on
The Apprentice.
That being said, I think his administration will break the record for most West Wing resignations in a single term.
Quote from: Savonarola on November 14, 2016, 10:17:35 PM
Well, the good news is that Elizabeth Warren got her wish. No more Mary Jo White at the head of the SEC:
I'm a little confused by that statement:
called for President Obama to remove White from her job because she wasn't doing enough to prevent businesses from pouring cash into politics.Didn't the Supreme Court judged this to be totally legitimate, as in, exercising free speech? If so, what was White supposed to do?
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 11:40:47 PM
I'm a little confused by that statement:
called for President Obama to remove White from her job because she wasn't doing enough to prevent businesses from pouring cash into politics.
Didn't the Supreme Court judged this to be totally legitimate, as in, exercising free speech? If so, what was White supposed to do?
Maybe Pokey wanted White to bankrupt every publicly traded company. It wouldn't be easy, but a dedicated SEC head should at least make the effort.
Bonds tumble.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/donald-trump-bond-market-impact-1.3850307
QuoteTrump dump: Bond prices lose $1T as investors fear higher debt and inflation
More than $1 trillion has fled bond market as investor worry about interest rates under Trump presidency
By Pete Evans, CBC News Posted: Nov 14, 2016 4:09 PM ET|
To borrow a phrase from the president-elect, there's an apt word to describe the bond market's reaction to the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency.
Huge.
It's been barely a week since Donald Trump won the U.S. presidential election, and while the U.S. stock market has so far reacted positively to the news, the much larger bond market has taken the opposite view.
On the campaign trail, the Republican nominee made waves with his talk of trade wars, higher tariffs and deficit spending. That's prompted fears of higher debt, higher inflation and higher interest rates — three things that are bad news for bond prices.
Unlike other asset classes, the price of the bond goes in the opposite direction to what's known as its yield — the amount, in percentage terms, that it will pay out.
■Loonie falls as investors expect Trump to spend big
If investors think America is about to borrow huge amounts of additional debt, they are demanding higher interest rates to loan the government money.
"Consider this," Bank of Montreal economist Benjamin Reitzes said Monday: "The price on 30-year Treasury bonds fell nearly five per cent on Wednesday, erasing two full years of coupon payments."
The 30-year has since lost another 10 basis points since Reitzes said that
And Canada isn't immune. The Canadian government's 10-year bond saw its yield surge by 27 basis points to 1.43 per cent, Reitzes noted. On the Friday before the election, that bond was priced at 103.10. On Monday, it had slumped to 99.60.
Between Friday and Monday, more than $1 trillion US of value has been wiped out of the world's bond market.
In the stodgy world of bonds, a fall that dramatic over such a short time period is astounding.
■Don Pittis: The bond crisis that most people have never heard of
"The bond market is supposed to be a dull, boring, stable place," said Colin Lundgren, head of U.S. fixed income at Columbia Threadneedle Investments. "Instead, it's been at the centre of the storm."
Trump says his deficit spending won't be a problem because he espouses the classic small-government view that tax cuts will be quickly be recouped — and then some — by how much they grow the economy.
Michael Lewitt, a bond fund manager who says he voted for Trump, isn't buying it.
■ANALYSIS: What were we thinking? Of course interest rates have to rise
"Cutting taxes and spending more money and not reforming entitlements, that's going to send debt through the roof," said Lewitt of the Credit Strategist Group. "The market is saying he is not going to worry about this, and that's going to be bad for bonds — really bad for bonds."
There are other signs that higher rates are coming soon. The U.S. central bank has been telegraphing for months that it planned to hike interest rates at least one more time this year. December was seen as the likeliest time to do so, and that's even more likely since Trump got elected.
According to data compiled by Bloomberg, economists who monitor the Federal Reserve now think there's a 92 per cent chance the central bank will hike its benchmark interest rate by a quarter of a point when it meets in early December.
That's another development that would send bond prices tumbling, and that's exactly what's happened to U.S. government debt in recent days. Investors have dumped 10-year U.S. government bonds, sending their yields soaring from 1.75 per cent to 2.15 per cent in just 36 hours. It typically takes many months for yields to move that much.
"The yield on the 10-year Treasury note bottomed out at just below 1.4 per cent this past June," Kroll bond rating agency said in a research note Monday, "but now appears to be headed towards yields almost twice that level as 2016 draws to a close."
"The Fed must raise benchmark rates in December merely in order to catch up with [these] bond market moves," Kroll said.
Tom Simons, money market economist at Jefferies and Co., says his take is that Trump's fiscal plan adds up to higher inflation, which will put pressure on bonds.
"I think we've topped out as far as the value of bonds," he said, "[and] a pretty high inflation environment in the future."
■Donald's dilemma: he says he's pro-business, but Wall Street doesn't seem to like him
Beyond his plans while in government, others note that the best reason to expect more bond-killing debt under a Trump administration is to look at his track record in the private sector. James Abate, chief investment officer of Centre Asset Management, says Trump made his fortune as a real estate developer by putting up buildings — and borrowing a lot of money to do it.
"Project what he's done his entire lifetime, and think of that on government level," said Abate. "He's going to issue debt, and that is what the bond market is spooked about."
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2016, 09:45:03 PM
You know what would be real laugh out loud funny, if Obama turns out to be Trump's most trusted and useful advisor during the next two months. :cool:
I think we're due for a remake of the sitcom Benson, anyways
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/the-american-media-is-completely-unprepared-to-cover-a-trump-presidency/507476/
QuoteThe U.S. Media Is Completely Unprepared to Cover a Trump Presidency
Donald Trump and his surrogates have shown an uncanny ability to lie in the face of objective facts. They will now have the power of the federal government to help them.
Saddam Hussein was allied with al-Qaeda, and helped finance the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The Hussein regime had sought uranium from Niger. Iraq had obtained aluminum tubes to be used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.
All of those assertions turned out to be false. But they echoed throughout the press in the months-long run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and only after the war turned to disaster did the media engage in soul-searching and self-criticism. And even then, many sought to deflect blame. Judith Miller, the Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times reporter whose front-page story about the aluminum tubes bolstered the case for war in Iraq explained: "My job isn't to assess the government's information and be an independent intelligence analyst myself. My job is to tell readers of The New York Times what the government thought about Iraq's arsenal."
During the 2016 presidential campaign, reporters marveled at the ability of Donald Trump and his surrogates to create an alternate reality in which statements made by the candidate had not been made at all—from his view that global warming is a hoax, to his nonexistent opposition to the Iraq War, to his refusal to say he would concede in the event of a loss, to his remarks about his relationship to Russian strongman Vladimir Putin. These are people who could argue that the sky is green without a blink. They were able to win a presidential election while doing so. Now they will have the entire apparatus of the federal government to bolster their lies, and the mainstream press is woefully unprepared to cover them.
The first reason is that political journalism is highly dependent on official sources, which are chased with abandon. Miller's defense of stenography seems absurd in hindsight, but there is a grain of truth in it. Government sources are granted a high degree of credibility, and official lies can be difficult to dispute. Contrary leaks from highly placed sources can offer an important check on the official story, but the breadth of the surveillance state built by Bush and Obama, a surveillance state now in Trump's hands, will make such leaks difficult.
For Trump administration mouthpieces, both public and anonymous, lies will now come with an officiality that will be difficult to contest. The total Republican control of government means that Democrats will struggle to get their objections to carry much weight, much as they did prior to the Iraq War.
Another obstacle is that media objectivity is not a fixed point. It is carefully calibrated to the perception of public opinion, because media organizations do not want to alienate their intended audience. MSNBC's Chris Matthews offers a telling example of how media figures shift to identify with their perceived audience, which can ultimately mean cozying up to power. During George W. Bush's absurd war pageantry in May 2003, Matthews remarked that Bush looked like a "high-flying jet star," and that Bush "won the war. He was an effective commander. Everybody recognizes that, I believe, except a few critics." The Iraq War is arguably still ongoing.
The Matthews episode illustrates that in addition to reporting itself being manipulated, members of the media themselves engaged in careful brand-management exercises in order to portray themselves as in touch with "Real America," granting themselves permission to dismiss criticisms of the Bush administration as the ravings of pampered liberal elites. Only days after the 2016 presidential election, this process is already taking place, with prominent media figures seeking to defend the victorious Trump coalition against the slights of those religious and ethnic minorities who fear for their fate under a president who campaigned using them as scapegoats for the nation's problems.
Adversarial coverage of the Bush administration notably increased once his approval ratings dipped so low that media figures felt as though they were reflecting public opinion when they criticized him. The Bush administration's ability to shape the narrative in the aftermath of public crises like Hurricane Katrina was noticeably diminished, because unlike with Iraq, reporters could contrast official statements with what they saw with their own lives. Trump's ability to forge an alternate universe of belief for himself and his supporters suggests that reality may prove far less of an obstacle for him than it was for Bush.
Nevertheless, the ability of the Bush administration to use its power to compel the press to adopt its alternate reality led to the greatest foreign-policy blunder since Vietnam, and the deaths of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, as well as the rise of ISIS. The consequences are, arguably, immeasurable, and the stats I have mentioned simply cannot do them justice.
With Trump, the United States has elected a president who has shown a complete disregard for free speech, arguing that his detractors do not have a "right" to criticize him. He believes the First Amendment's protections for the press are too strong. He has a thirst for vengeance against those whom he perceives as having wronged him, and now he has the power of the federal government to pursue his vendettas. The Bush administration's ability to manipulate the press, and the media's willing acquiescence in the name of relating to its audience, led to catastrophe.
I want to emphasize that all administrations lie. The Lyndon Johnson administration successfully snowed the press on Vietnam. The Obama administration continually underestimated the strength of ISIS. With Trump, however, we are entering an era in which a president, prior to taking office, has already shown an ability to be entirely unbound by facts, with no political consequences.
The temptation to accept the Trump administration's unreality—particularly given increased distrust of the media and his ability to insulate his base from the truth—will be tremendous. His ability to use the powers of the federal government to bolster his dishonesty will magnify his powers of deception a thousandfold. And the inability of the Democratic opposition to affect the outcome given their marginal presence in the U.S. government will ensure that any dissent is muffled.
The media is not ready to cover this president. And unless something changes, the American people, and possibly the rest of the world, will pay for it.
That article would have benefited from a modest reduction in hyperbole.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2016, 01:11:43 AM
That article would have benefited from a modest reduction in hyperbole.
What statements in particular do you disagree with or think are exaggerated?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 15, 2016, 01:52:35 AM
What statements in particular do you disagree with or think are exaggerated?
Too much work.
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 11:40:47 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 14, 2016, 10:17:35 PM
Well, the good news is that Elizabeth Warren got her wish. No more Mary Jo White at the head of the SEC:
I'm a little confused by that statement:
called for President Obama to remove White from her job because she wasn't doing enough to prevent businesses from pouring cash into politics.
Didn't the Supreme Court judged this to be totally legitimate, as in, exercising free speech? If so, what was White supposed to do?
Donald Trump never let facts get in his way. Why should Senator Warren?
Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2016, 12:54:18 AM
QuoteThe U.S. Media Is Completely Unprepared to Cover a Trump Presidency
Over-reliance on official sources is a long standing problem (going back at least to the New Deal; but probably much older than that.) A bigger (and more recent) problem is that the media dedicates almost no resources to investigative journalism; something that will almost certainly be needed in a Trump Presidency. The good news is that the (mainstream) media already hates Trump; so maybe they can find the money to do some muck-raking. Also, if the Donald goes through staff as quickly as he did on his campaign the media should have no shortage of disgruntled "Highly placed" sources.
It might not make a difference. Even in these days of demonstrations and transition the media can be every bit as trivial as ever. Check out this story from CNN: George W. Bush adopts a puppy (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/george-w-bush-laura-bush-puppy/)
Perry White: Clark! Jimmy! How does CNN keep scooping us? :mad:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 14, 2016, 10:28:29 PM
'Knife fight' as Trump builds an unconventional national security cabinet
Said it before, I'll say it again: everything you need to know about The Donald's decision-making process you can find on The Apprentice.
That being said, I think his administration will break the record for most West Wing resignations in a single term.
He seems to be setting up the administration similar to how Reagan set up his, so I expect a lot of indictments to come down as well.
Quote from: Savonarola on November 15, 2016, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2016, 12:54:18 AM
QuoteThe U.S. Media Is Completely Unprepared to Cover a Trump Presidency
Over-reliance on official sources is a long standing problem (going back at least to the New Deal; but probably much older than that.) A bigger (and more recent) problem is that the media dedicates almost no resources to investigative journalism; something that will almost certainly be needed in a Trump Presidency. The good news is that the (mainstream) media already hates Trump; so maybe they can find the money to do some muck-raking. Also, if the Donald goes through staff as quickly as he did on his campaign the media should have no shortage of disgruntled "Highly placed" sources.
It might not make a difference. Even in these days of demonstrations and transition the media can be every bit as trivial as ever. Check out this story from CNN: George W. Bush adopts a puppy (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/george-w-bush-laura-bush-puppy/)
Perry White: Clark! Jimmy! How does CNN keep scooping us? :mad:
Not sure how this is good news. Lack of objectivity in reporting will mean that Trump opponents will just have their anti-Trump biases confirmed while Trump supporters will dismiss such stories outright as biased. This is unlikely to help the public discourse.
We have just seen it happen in Poland with PiS - the mainstream media were so biased against PiS that now their anti-government reporting barely makes any dent in the support PiS is enjoying - the government simply favours their own favourable media through various "leaks", exclusive interviews etc. Trump is clearly planning to do the same with Fox, Breitbart etc.
He meant as far bothering with investigation and not just repeating the official story like they lazily have been doing.
The effect you are talking about happened already, decades ago in fact.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 14, 2016, 11:47:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 11:40:47 PM
I'm a little confused by that statement:
called for President Obama to remove White from her job because she wasn't doing enough to prevent businesses from pouring cash into politics.
Didn't the Supreme Court judged this to be totally legitimate, as in, exercising free speech? If so, what was White supposed to do?
Maybe Pokey wanted White to bankrupt every publicly traded company. It wouldn't be easy, but a dedicated SEC head should at least make the effort.
You have that kind of far left nuts in US politics? I mean, as elected official (Michael Moore types don't count)? Colour me skeptical...
Well, come to think of it, if the right can manage to have their President Trump, nothing should really surprise me on either end of the political spectrum.
We have every sort of nut. :(
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 11:40:47 PM
I'm a little confused by that statement:
called for President Obama to remove White from her job because she wasn't doing enough to prevent businesses from pouring cash into politics.
Didn't the Supreme Court judged this to be totally legitimate, as in, exercising free speech? If so, what was White supposed to do?
They wanted the SEC to adopt rules to force companies to give greater disclosure of political expenditures, etc. Whatever the merits, it's rather outside the SEC's mission.
White was actually pretty aggressive on enforcement although a lot of it was lower profile stuff like policing the PE industry or looking into private placements. She's a good lawyer but perhaps lacks the media nous, and thus is out of step with the present day zeitgeist where talk and hot air are king, getting things done competently is viewed as sissy stuff.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2016, 12:14:43 PM
They wanted the SEC to adopt rules to force companies to give greater disclosure of political expenditures, etc. Whatever the merits, it's rather outside the SEC's mission.
Thank you for the clarification. And yes, it's a job for Congress, to pass laws forcing such disclosure, if they feel it's necessary, not the SEC.
Quote
White was actually pretty aggressive on enforcement although a lot of it was lower profile stuff like policing the PE industry or looking into private placements. She's a good lawyer but perhaps lacks the media nous, and thus is out of step with the present day zeitgeist where talk and hot air are king, getting things done competently is viewed as sissy stuff.
That seemed to be my impression of the SEC lately, very competent, but discrete. I guess that's why lots of people want her gone, on the right and on the left.
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 15, 2016, 10:09:59 AM
Check out this story from CNN: George W. Bush adopts a puppy (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/george-w-bush-laura-bush-puppy/)
Not sure how this is good news.
I'm sure he'll take good care of it. :)
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 14, 2016, 10:13:35 PM
Not me. I haven't logged in to FB since the election, and I'm pretty sure there are a number of relationships that won't survive this. Most of my family are GOP, but the ones who aren't are like the definition of beltway insider, ivy league, Wellesley and Smith and making a crapload of money off of those connections types. I'm like the guy both sides trust, but I know if I engage I'll only sink into the mud. I might stay off the internet for four years.
I've seen a few ugly 'discussions' and outright family feuds on facebook lately. Boggles the mind why people would choose to do that publicly on social media, but there you go.
Quote from: Savonarola on November 15, 2016, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2016, 12:54:18 AM
QuoteThe U.S. Media Is Completely Unprepared to Cover a Trump Presidency
Over-reliance on official sources is a long standing problem (going back at least to the New Deal; but probably much older than that.) A bigger (and more recent) problem is that the media dedicates almost no resources to investigative journalism; something that will almost certainly be needed in a Trump Presidency. The good news is that the (mainstream) media already hates Trump; so maybe they can find the money to do some muck-raking. Also, if the Donald goes through staff as quickly as he did on his campaign the media should have no shortage of disgruntled "Highly placed" sources.
Well, that was a nice dream. <_< From CNN:
Haha guys, this bird looks like Donald Trump (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/donald-trump-bird-trnd/)
I look forward to four (probably eight) years of our media providing in-depth hard hitting analysis of Donald Trump's tweets.
Christ this is dire.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/11/09/north_carolina_gov_pat_mccrory_lost_thanks_to_hb2.html
Quote
Pat McCrory Lost the North Carolina Governorship. Now He's Trying to Steal It.
By Mark Joseph Stern
North Carolina Republican Gov. Pat McCrory, champion of the country's most notorious anti-LGBTQ law, lost his bid for re-election on Nov. 8—at last count, by 7,448 votes. Yet nearly two weeks later, McCrory still refuses to concede. Instead, he and his legal team are baselessly alleging that the results were tainted by fraud, petitioning election boards to review the results and determine their validity. McCrory is not so obtuse as to think he can actually overtake his opponent, Democratic Attorney General Roy Cooper, in raw votes. His strategy is more insidious: He seems intent on delaying the formal declaration of a winner—and delegitimizing the voting process—in order to let the Republican-dominated legislature ignore the true result and re-install McCrory as governor for another four years.
This chicanery will be easier to pull off than you might expect. Thus far, McCrory has questioned votes in more than half of North Carolina's counties. One attorney monitoring the proceedings called these challenges "silly, small in number, poorly researched and often defamatory," which is undeniable: Republican-controlled county election boards have forcefully rejected McCrory's challenges, concluding that there is simply no proof of widespread fraud or malfeasance as McCrory claims. Frustrated by these setbacks, McCrory petitioned the Republican-controlled State Board of Elections to take over the review process. The board refused, but it agreed to meet on Tuesday to set guidelines for how county boards should address complaints.
Despite the utter lack of evidence to support allegations of fraud, McCrory's team has launched a misinformation campaign to cast a pall of suspicion over the results. His campaign spokesman asked, "Why is Roy Cooper fighting to count the votes of dead people and felons?" McCrory's close ally and current state budget director, Andrew T. Heath, also tweeted that Durham County has 231,000 residents over the age of 18 but 232,000 registered voters, implying fraud. (In reality, Durham's 2015 voting-age population was about 235,600, and the county has only 193,659 active registered voters; its Republican-controlled election board already unanimously rejected a complaint alleging malfeasance.) Now McCrory's lawyers are targeting black American voter outreach groups for purportedly violating minor procedural rules while helping voters fill out absentee ballots. The governor has falsely accused these groups of conducting a "massive voter fraud scheme."
McCrory can, and probably will, still ask for a statewide recount. But he must know that a recount will not close such a sizable gap. His real goal appears to be to delegitimize the results to such an extent that the state legislature—which holds a Republican supermajority—can step in and select him as the winner. North Carolina state law states that when "a contest arises out of the general election," and that contest pertains "to the conduct or results of the election," the legislature "shall determine which candidate received the highest number of votes" and "declare that candidate to be elected." By alleging fraud, mishandling of ballots, and irregular vote-counting, McCrory is laying the groundwork for the legislature to proclaim that a "contest" has arisen as to "the conduct or results of the election." At that point, it can step in, assert that McCrory received "the highest number" of legitimate votes, and "declare [him] to be elected."
The best part? Under the law, the legislature's decision is "not reviewable" by the courts. Republican legislators can simply step in, overturn the decision of the voters, and grant McCrory another term. The courts have no authority even to review the legality of their actions.
Top Comment
He's just mad cause all his voter suppression didn't work. "We rigged this fair and square, and I should have won." More...
78 Comments
While McCrory works to reverse the results of his election, the legislature is contemplating a plan to effectively negate a state Supreme Court contest. On Election Day, voters ousted a conservative justice and replaced him with a progressive, tipping the court's balance of power toward Democrats. Republican legislators so feared this result that they attempted to bar the progressive candidate from running, passing a law that was struck down as unconstitutional. Now they are floating a plan to pack the court, expanding it from seven to nine members—and allowing McCrory to name its two new members, thereby conserving its conservative majority. The legislature passed HB2 in 12 hours. It could ram through a court-packing bill just as quickly.
This scheme, of course, would directly contravene the voters' recent decision to move the state Supreme Court in a liberal direction. But North Carolina Republicans no longer care much about the will of the voters. Instead of accepting the results of the election, Republicans are attempting to entrench their power through a series of unethical, underhanded, and constitutionally dubious maneuvers. Their corrupt disregard for basic governing norms—their blatant preference for raw power over democratic legitimacy—should alarm us all. What's happening in North Carolina is not mere politics. It is a perversion of democracy.
Get used to it. It's now or never for GOP everywhere, fuck legitimacy, go for the kill.
Some minor good news. Probably going to be smacked down by the Supremes though unless Roberts takes the same tack with regards to his legacy that he did with Obamacare.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-court-says-wisconsin-s-gop-redistricting-maps-unconstitutional-n686991
Some special relationship. Guardian all abuzz that Nigel Farage would be a great UK Ambassador to the US.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a50890/kris-kobach-homeland-security-plan-photo/?src=socialflowFB
QuoteDoes anything strike you about this picture? That's the president-elect and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, an anti-immigration hardliner whom he is considering for the Secretary of Homeland Security post. If you squint a bit, you can see that the future defender of our homeland is unintentionally leaking his confidential plan by posing with it for a photoshoot. And if you look even closer, you can see that "PLAN FOR FIRST 365 DAYS" in all its grotesque glory:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fesq.h-cdn.co%2Fassets%2F16%2F47%2F768x511%2Fgallery-1479757622-kobach2.jpg&hash=369fe41c1d75f0b5698b99b7ed5612d29186c84f)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxz4K5RUAAApPLo.jpg)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsocial.bioware.com%2Fuploads_user%2F1697000%2F1696184%2F252890.jpg&hash=ecba812a4693e878450b014ebd709387d2cc5fef)
Incidentally, is there any particular rule about posting a story to one of five or six elections/Trump threads? Or do people just pos these randomly? I know I do.
Here's something you can vote on:
https://www.change.org/p/mike-pence-make-mike-pence-perform-gay-shock-therapy-on-milo-yiannopoulos?recruiter=640358579&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive
By the way, Milo is promoting this petition on his Facebook. :P
I vote we never mention Milo again.
Re Kobach at the bottom it looks like part of his homeland security agenda is gutting the National Voter Registration Act. Because in Trumpland there are few dangers to American security greater than the frightening prospect that black people might register to vote.