He should have given up on Russia years ago.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/10/03/a_very_bad_day_for_u_s_russia_relations.html
Quote
Obama May Have Just Given up on Russia for Good
By Joshua Keating
Monday could end up being remembered as the moment when the years-long deteriorating relationship between the United Sates and Russia went from terrible to unsalvageable.
Joshua Keating is a staff writer at Slate focusing on international affairs.
First, the State Department finally followed through on days of threats by Secretary of State John Kerry, announcing that the U.S. is suspending its participation in talks with Russia to try to establish a ceasefire in Syria. Those discussions were supposed to eventually lead to jointly coordinated strikes against ISIS and other terrorist groups. This comes after days of punishing Russian and regime airstrikes on rebel-held areas of Aleppo, including several bombings of hospitals and one on a humanitarian aid convoy. According to the State Department, these attacks demonstrated that Russia was always more committed to propping up Assad's regime than reaching a political solution—something that has been clear to most observers for some time.
Russia, meanwhile, recently accused the U.S. of supporting and controlling an "international terrorist alliance" through its backing of anti-Assad rebel groups.
Also on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin suspended a treaty with the U.S. on the disposal of plutonium, negotiated by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov in 2010. The draft law halting the treaty, which Putin submitted to Russia's parliament, calls on Washington to lift Ukraine-related sanctions and to reduce the U.S. military presence in NATO member states in Eastern Europe.
The day's events serve as a sad bookend to the fraught but occasionally productive era that began when then Clinton presented a mistranslated "reset" button to her Russian Lavrov on March 6, 2009.
The moves also come amid widespread allegations of Russian hackers tampering in the U.S. presidential election and several days after a report by a Dutch-led investigation confirmed that the missile that brought down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014 came from Russia.
The suspension of the plutonium deal, one of a number of arms control agreements between the two countries, may be less dramatic in the short term than the final collapse of the Syria ceasefire process. But in the long run its implications are more alarming.
Even in the halcyon days of the reset, Obama administration officials claimed that they never anticipated a new era of friendship would flourish with the Russians, but that they were simply hoping to "de-link" issues of disagreement from those where productive cooperation might be possible. This strategy did actually achieve some real successes, from Iran sanctions, to logistical support for the war in Afghanistan, to nuclear disarmament. But Monday's events indicated that Russia is now willing to use arms control agreements—the cornerstone of post-Cold War cooperation between the two countries—as leverage in other disputes. And it's hard to say what—if any—areas of potential cooperation might be on the table going forward.
Still, given the frightening potential for clashes between American and Russian forces in Syria, Washington can't afford to cut off Moscow entirely: Monday's announcement noted that the channel of communications aimed at "de-conflicting" the two parties will remain open. And while the day's news could result in new American sanctions against Russia, those already in effect over the war in Ukraine haven't had much of an impact on Russian behavior despite damaging the country's economy.
Even if the tangible results of this catastrophic day might not be immediately felt, we could see an urgent shift in the tone of the administration's rhetoric towards and about Russia. Obama has been happy to use Putin as a cudgel to attack Donald Trump on the campaign trail, but the administration has been reluctant to publicly blame Russia for the recent cyberattacks targeting the Democratic Party, for fear that Russia would respond by escalating those attacks. Officials have tended to be vague in public while explicitly blaming Russia when speaking anonymously. According to the New York Times this caution "has led to something of an uprising in parts of the White House and the State Department."
If we start seeing more explicit public accusations leveled at the Kremlin, it could be confirmation that the administration has given up on any kind of productive cooperation with Russia in the short time it has left.
Russia uses diplomacy Trump-style....
https://twitter.com/RusEmbUSA/status/783648651943882752/photo/1
Thanks, Slate!
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2016, 05:19:14 PM
Thanks, Slate!
How about you dispute what the article says instead of just whining like a little bitch.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 06, 2016, 05:52:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2016, 05:19:14 PM
Thanks, Slate!
How about you dispute what the article says instead of just whining like a little bitch.
Sharks gotta swim,
Bats gotta fly
Garbon's gotta bitch about Slate til he dies...
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 06, 2016, 05:52:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2016, 05:19:14 PM
Thanks, Slate!
How about you dispute what the article says instead of just whining like a little bitch.
Reading Slate articles is beneath my dignity.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 06, 2016, 05:52:18 PMHow about you dispute what the article says instead of just whining like a little bitch.
the problem is slate is so consistently bad and inaccurate that it's like, what's the point
Slate sucks. This article sucks.
Guess what, US-Philippines relations are the worst since the Cold War, too.
Russia is a nuisance to the US, not a threat. Is it a threat to its neighbors? Sure, when has it not been. But they're a far cry from the Soviet Union. They're punks, run by a punk and his punk buddies. It's the mob with its own country.
Now, 125 years from now when more of the Arctic shelf has melted and it's a gold rush for the last of the precious metals on the planet, then it'll be a different story.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 06, 2016, 07:00:50 PM
Guess what, US-Philippines relations are the worst since the Cold War, too.
Russia is a nuisance to the US, not a threat. Is it a threat to its neighbors? Sure, when has it not been. But they're a far cry from the Soviet Union. They're punks, run by a punk and his punk buddies. It's the mob with its own country.
Now, 125 years from now when more of the Arctic shelf has melted and it's a gold rush for the last of the precious metals on the planet, then it'll be a different story.
Asteroid mining will crash the precious metal market within a few decades, so that's not going to happen.
You just need to shut the fuck up with that bullshit, Elroy Jetson.
:lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 06, 2016, 07:33:56 PM
You just need to shut the fuck up with that bullshit, Elroy Jetson.
:XD:
It wasn't that long ago that the frontlines were near Frankfurt. Now the frontlines are in eastern Ukraine.
Russia needs their relations with us to be bad. Or at least the current regime does. So it is by design.
How could it be, after two greats like Obama and Clinton presented Putin with the reset button? :cry:
Giant Putin banner appears on New York's Manhattan Bridge:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37581450 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37581450)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjpupdates.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2Fputinbanner1-347x281.jpg&hash=07b8b55f76462446ed11f7e43fcb126d5c1aa22e)
Quote from: Martinus on October 07, 2016, 12:03:46 AM
How could it be, after two greats like Obama and Clinton presented Putin with the reset button? :cry:
Americans are slow learners :P
The guy before them stared into Putin's soul.
Quote from: citizen k on October 07, 2016, 12:07:02 AM
Giant Putin banner appears on New York's Manhattan Bridge:
See? That never would have happened in the Cold War :P
Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2016, 12:25:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 07, 2016, 12:03:46 AM
How could it be, after two greats like Obama and Clinton presented Putin with the reset button? :cry:
Americans are slow learners :P
The guy before them stared into Putin's soul.
It seems to me that every American President goes into the office thinking they can smooth things over with Russia - and by the time they retire they consider Russia one of the greatest enemies. :P
I suspect Trump will be no different.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 06, 2016, 07:00:50 PM
Guess what, US-Philippines relations are the worst since the Cold War, too.
Russia is a nuisance to the US, not a threat. Is it a threat to its neighbors? Sure, when has it not been. But they're a far cry from the Soviet Union. They're punks, run by a punk and his punk buddies. It's the mob with its own country. And enough nuclear weapons to kill us all.
FYP
Hey, I mentioned their revision of their strategic nuclear posture in 2010 months ago, and you told me I was talking out of my ass. So fuck their nukes.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 07, 2016, 11:23:49 AM
Hey, I mentioned their revision of their strategic nuclear posture in 2010 months ago, and you told me I was talking out of my ass. So fuck their nukes.
1. I don't think I did that.
2. You aren't worried about their nukes because someone on the internet pointed out that you talk out of your ass at times? I am not sure how that connects.
Americans have to understand that Russia will always be Russia. I remember being amused when the Cold War ended and Americans seemed to think that Russia would become a normal country.
Quote from: Berkut on October 07, 2016, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 07, 2016, 11:23:49 AM
Hey, I mentioned their revision of their strategic nuclear posture in 2010 months ago, and you told me I was talking out of my ass. So fuck their nukes.
1. I don't think I did that.
2. You aren't worried about their nukes because someone on the internet pointed out that you talk out of your ass at times? I am not sure how that connects.
Skybird, this is Dropkick with a red dash alpha message in two parts. Lick. Miballs.
WE ARE IN THE SNAP COUNT
The administration publicly calls out the Russians on their hacking.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-publicly-blames-russian-government-hacking-n662066
Maybe the administration shouldn't whine like a little bitch every time they lose in CS.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 07, 2016, 09:09:17 PM
The administration publicly calls out the Russians on their hacking.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-publicly-blames-russian-government-hacking-n662066
What's the gain from that? At best it has no effect, at worst it makes America looks weak and increases support for Putin among Russians and alt-right.
GOP and conservative hawks can't claim that Obama's "reset" with Russia has failed when virtually half of them see Russia as an ally or at least a friendly nation.
QuoteThe Cable
Almost 50 Percent of Trump Supporters Think Russia Is Our Pal
By David Francis
October 17, 2016 - 2:46 pm
Russian President Vladimir Putin has invaded Ukraine and annexed the Crimean peninsula. His cyber cronies have tried to influence the results of the U.S. presidential election. Washington and Moscow are at odds over how to deal with the Syrian civil war, even as Russia is determined to reduce the city of Aleppo to ashes. Putin is harboring Edward Snowden, a man wanted by U.S. authorities for leaking American intelligence secrets. Yet somehow, Putin remains popular with supporters of GOP nominee Donald Trump.
According to a new poll by Politico/Morning Consult released Monday, almost half of Trump supporters believe Russia is an ally, or at least a friendly nation to the United States. Some 19 percent of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton's supporters view Russia favorably, compared to 24 percent of Trump backers.
The results of the poll should not come as a shock. Trump has repeatedly praised the Russian strongman, even calling on Russian hackers to release Clinton's emails. For his part, Putin has also shared warm feelings about the Republican nominee, calling him "colorful."
At the same time, the poll found that only 32 percent of Republicans believe the U.S. intelligence community's conclusion that Putin is trying to influence the presidential election. Trump himself, despite receiving intelligence briefings about the matter, still deflects blame from Russia. Exactly half of Democrats believe Putin is trying to hack the election in some way.
And that all translates into little appetite for punishment. Only 34 percent of respondents said the United States should slap Russia with new economic sanctions.
QuotePoll: Trump supporters warm to Russia
By Michael Crowley
10/17/16 06:45 AM EDT
At a moment of unmatched post-Cold War hostility between the U.S. and Russia, nearly half of Donald Trump's supporters describe Russia as an ally or a friendly nation, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.
And less than one-third of Republicans accept the Obama administration's conclusion that Moscow is trying to influence the November election through computer hacking, according to the poll.
The poll results illustrate how Trump has managed to maintain his politically unorthodox view that the U.S. should have friendly relations with Russia, even as most other Republicans call for a hard-line response to Moscow's military role in Syria and Ukraine. Trump has repeatedly said he'd like to "get along" with Russia and its president, Vladimir Putin and explored multiple business ventures in the country.
Democrats are far likelier to believe that Russia is trying to influence the 2016 election. Fifty percent say that it is, while just 32 percent of Republicans agree with that conclusion.
Earlier this month, the director of national intelligence and the secretary of homeland security identified Russia's government as the culprit behind the recent hacking and disclosure of Democratic Party and Clinton campaign emails. The officials said the hacks were "intended to interfere with the U.S. election process."
Trump himself has doubted whether Russia is to blame for the stolen emails. "Maybe there is no hacking," Trump said during his debate with Clinton last week. But speaking on Fox News Sunday, Pence contradicted his running mate. "I think there's no question that the evidence continues to point in that direction," Pence said.
The Kremlin is widely considered to favor Trump over Clinton, who is often portrayed in Russian media as having aggressive foreign policy views, and whom Putin has suggested played a part in stirring 2011 protests against his government.
Putin, speaking with reporters on Sunday during a trip to India, said he had "no intention" of influencing the outcome of the U.S. election. But he left little doubt as to where his sympathies lie.
"We don't know for sure how it will be after the elections," Putin said, according to the Russian news agency TASS. "We don't know whether ... Trump will be implementing his intentions, how far will he go in cooperating with us or whether Mrs. Clinton, if she becomes president, will implement her threats and her harsh rhetoric about Russia. She may correct her position, too. All of it is still unknown to us."
Although 49 percent of Trump supporters see Russia as either an ally or a friendly nation, they still hold an overwhelmingly wary view of America's strategic rival. Only 24 percent of Trump supporters say they view Russia favorably, with 19 percent of Clinton supporters saying so.
Among all registered voters, the poll found a divide on whether to retaliate for the alleged Russian hacking: 34 percent said they favor economic sanctions, with 33 percent opposed.
Only 20 percent said the U.S. should take retaliatory cyber attacks against Russia. Fifty one percent said it should not.
On Sunday, Pence told Fox: "There should be severe consequences to Russia or any sovereign nation that is compromising the privacy or the security" of the U.S.
Also Sunday, the Clinton campaign released a statement from senior policy adviser Jake Sullivan saying that Putin "is trying to put his thumb on the scale through cyber-attacks aimed at influencing the election because he knows that Hillary Clinton will stand up to him."
"Given the alarming set of facts, it's time for Donald Trump to condemn this modern day Watergate and disclose all of his campaign's connections to Russia and WikiLeaks," Sullivan said.
The new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll was conducted among 1,999 registered voters using an online panel from Oct. 13 to Oct. 15.
grumblerography:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/poll-trump-supporters-warm-to-russia-229874
Fools.